Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Fishing Rods => Fishing Rods => Topic started by: Cuttyhunker on June 05, 2020, 03:25:03 PM

Title: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 05, 2020, 03:25:03 PM
I need some help on what I may be getting into with restoring an old bamboo Tycoon rod, not sure if it is a 12 or 20 oz.  The guides are all there, including the tip, the varnish is severely crazed to the point the writing is gone and only a fraction of the Tycoon decal remains,  the seat is good with the Pat pending oval plate in place.  Mice have gnawed away a fair amount of the cork. Looking for advice on a fair deal to get it restored and a ballpark value.  I recall a cherry 1000 changing hands here in an older thread. Thanks.
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: 1badf350 on June 05, 2020, 04:37:56 PM
Bob the 1000 series was a more "popularly priced" rod. You would think there would be more of them around but they are pretty hard to find. 
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: 1badf350 on June 05, 2020, 05:05:32 PM
My 1009 is about 16.5mm across at the base. The 1016 is 22.5mm
This might help you narrow down which one you have.
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oldmanjoe on June 05, 2020, 07:50:18 PM
  My vote is for a restoration .     Can you snap a couple of close up pictures of the guides please .   joe
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: droppedit on June 05, 2020, 09:18:59 PM
I've restored a couple of old bamboo fly rods and found the best way to remove the old varnish is to scrape it off. Now that will remove any decals and inscription but it will bring it down to the bamboo. I used a glass scraper. If you go to a hardware store that cuts glass they have all sorts of scrap that they'd probably give you. Not too much pressure and use long strokes. The glass will not bend and it will make a straight cut and just remove the varnish. Do not use any heat or any removal chemicals as they may damage or make the glue let go. I use McCloskey spar varnish for a finish. It is pretty user friendly.
https://www.mccloskey.com/pdf/80_6505-Series-McCloskey-Man-OWar-Spar-Varnish.pdf

I've rewrapped a couple large rods for Bulleye and another of his friends but I didn't do anything to the varnish on the blank. I'm sure they will chime in on what they've done first.
Decals can be made if you are clever on the computer. If you know anyone with an Alps printer they should have no problem printing one for you. If not and you have the artwork complete PM me and I'll see what I can do for you.
Hope this helps,

Dave


Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 05, 2020, 09:46:32 PM
Thanks for the replies gentlemen, I'll probably not try this myself even though I've been keeping rods "going" most of my life, I am a noob to bamboo and wouldn't want to start with this one as my first project.
Chris,
Are you measuring at the base of the exposed bamboo? Any feeling for the fair market? Not really looking to sell, just don't want to get into a loco over spend versus the value.
Joe,
Just got back to New England from FL, the rod is up in the joists behind other tackle, will try to get the old girl down over the weekend, provided I'm far enough along on the "honey-do" stuff and get you some quality shots.
Dave,
Would you have any recommendations on a good Mass outfit to quote this?  There is a New Bedford shop, CMS, been around a long time with a solid rep, I'll look to them for a referral as well, if this is something they aren't set up for or interested in.

Prior to talking to any restorer I just am looking for some solid expert advice with no vested interest. 
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: 1badf350 on June 05, 2020, 11:15:26 PM
Im measuring about an inch above the top of the grip. Also sent you a PM
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: droppedit on June 06, 2020, 12:02:42 AM
Just sent a PM
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oc1 on June 06, 2020, 04:06:46 AM
Varnish with the same recipe as the original probably does not exist.  The old stuff has deteriorated and the new stuff has an improved formula.  Still McCloskey is probably a really close substitute and it would take mass spectrometry or something to tell the difference. 

Nylon was not invented until 1937 and did not really come into common use until after the war.  So, anything pre-war would have had silk thread.  They try to pass off a lot of stuff as silk thread these days, but if you look hard enough you can still find the real thing.

Alex is out there and probably looking at this.  He has the skills and equipment to make a replica water transfer decal.

-steve
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 06, 2020, 06:42:35 AM
Steve,
I'm a little surprised the guides are still in place on this one and fairly solid.  The guides on the Royal Hickory were about to fall off as the wrap was disintegrating when dad had it stored in the tool shed back in the 60's.  As a kid I had no idea they were silk wrapped but did, fortunately, pull them off, and tie them all to the reel seat with a piece of nylon twine that did survive.  I'll have to do some research on the 1000 series as to dates they were available.  I have a few old bamboo nine to ten foot surf casters with the opposing guides, swivel or stirrup tips, to avoid the "set". This one is all designed to fish "one way", was there a point in the bamboo design when the ratio of the length to thickness made the set a non issue?
Thanks,
Bob   
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Swami805 on June 06, 2020, 12:01:13 PM
I think the setting isn't an issue with split bamboo or wood since it's several pieces laminated together, the grain in each piece is different. It would warp if stored improperly.
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 06, 2020, 04:03:23 PM
Joe,
Here are all 5 guides
Chris
At the base just above the wrap 3/4" 18.85mm
At the decal 5/8" 15.85mm between guides 1 and 2 pointing screw driver
The ferrule is stuck, going to mix up a 50/50 ATF-Acetone and let it work a few days, the cork is chewed up to the bamboo
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oc1 on June 06, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
Those are beautiful guides.  The cork can be repaired without removing guides but it's really tedious to do it that way.

They can all take a set/bend.  A casting rod that takes a set early in the day will be a nuisance to fish with; hence the over-under guides.  A trolling rod that takes a set early in the day is not such a nuisance.  They can all be straightened by hanging the rod vertically between trips.

The Tycoon horizontal laminations as shown in the advert above are interesting. They have an asymmetrical cross section too.   Joe will be taking note of that.  The 1000 series is single built hexagonal.  Their strongest rods were double built hexagonal with two layers of bamboo thick.
-steve
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: 1badf350 on June 06, 2020, 08:55:11 PM
Steve which rods by Tycoon were double built hexagonal? I cant say I have seen one before.
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 06, 2020, 09:03:34 PM
Doing Tycoon research I found this on Ed Pritchard's site, a salesman's cross sectional sample display of Tycoon rods, he has, as you would expect, a bunch of additional Tycoon info.
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: 54bullseye on June 06, 2020, 09:07:39 PM
Cuttyhunker
I wouldn't just give that rod to a modern rod building shop if you want it right it needs to go to someone who knows and has done over antique rods before or it will come out looking like a new bamboo rod. There is an art to keeping them looking old and original ! Do some homework before you get it done !! Original decals of that era are difficult to reproduce accurately.  John Taylor
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oldmanjoe on June 06, 2020, 10:45:57 PM
   Thank you for the guide pictures ..     Looking at them reminds me of the erector set we had as kids !!
   :)   Yes i have made a few of each of the horizontal , vertical   and hor/ver .

  My upbringing was you  fixed or made the part to make it work again.
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oc1 on June 07, 2020, 05:14:10 AM
Quote from: Cuttyhunker on June 06, 2020, 09:03:34 PM
salesman's cross sectional sample
That's a treasure and really interesting too.  Chris, I'll look for the double-built thing again. 
-steve
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 07, 2020, 08:39:37 AM
John,
Thank you, and I get it.  One of the reasons I was looking at this one particular shop is a local fishing forum thread indicated they have "a guy" for the old stuff, and this shop, being in the business so long would pretty much know all the players in the niche for a referral if I chose to look elsewhere.  I've been perusing old threads here and elsewhere on bamboo restoration so I can be at least a minimally informed consumer when I do pull the trigger, so all input is welcomed.  The rod has been screwed up for decades so a few months doing the research won't make anything worse.
Bob
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 09, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Steve, This one popped up on Boston CL "Antique Double Built Bamboo Fishing Pole - $25" looks like a swiveling tip.  Would this be the double layered construction you mentioned
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 09, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
Forgot the pics ???
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 09, 2020, 11:02:45 AM
They didn't post the way they looked in my screen, seems to have no handle and look at the bottom one for "Double Built", poster said it was a South Bend.  I guess when you right click the expanded thumbs Craig's only gives you what shows in the small thumbnail. Need to use a screenshot capture with these guys.
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oc1 on June 09, 2020, 12:44:07 PM
I'm sure that's it Bob.  If you could see a double-built rod in cross-section it would look like a normal split cane rod made of six triangular pieces, all encapsulated in a ring of six trapezoid pieces.  To make a large diameter rod they had to do it in two layers because the wall of Tonkin cane is not thick enough to do in all one layer.  I have some illustrations and such here somewhere, but this place is a mess.

That rod from CL has a beautiful rattan fore-grip.  I've tied making those but they never looks as neat and tight as that.
-steve
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 09, 2020, 12:59:23 PM
Here's the link if you want to get a better look.

https://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/clt/d/north-billerica-antique-double-built/7127421124.html
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oc1 on June 09, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
"Double-Built" is more of a process than a model.  The handle could be replaced easily enough if it still had the reel seat.  Still, for $25....?
-steve
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: oldmanjoe on June 09, 2020, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: oc1 on June 09, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
"Double-Built" is more of a process than a model. 
-steve
Exactly  ,   You are removing the enamel and the pith just to harvest the power fibers , than you glue them together to make a beam
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on June 11, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Made the trek to the local rod shop yesterday to pick up a replacement for a busted guide on a St Croix spinner that I picked up in a trade last year and test the waters on the Tycoon job.  They were busy, had half a dozen big tuna rods at about 500 a pop on the slow rollers behind the counter with 4 or 5 guys working there.  The report that they had "a guy" for restoration was a fantasy, and the best I could get was an obtuse referral to a fly rod shop in Marlborough Mass from one guy and NAAAHHH from the other I tried to approach if he knew of a restorer.  I'll google up the fly shop, anyone know of it on here?

The ferrule is frozen so I'm mixing up a little 50/50 ATF and Acetone to put a few drops on daily for a while to see if it'll release. It's worked on some of my old stuff when the ice treatment was a failure.  The cork on the rod side is broken around the circumference less that a half inch above the ferrule and can wiggle the rod section just a tiny bit.  I don't want to out the bamboo out rather than coming apart as it should.

Thanks too all for the input and the helpful PM's
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on September 06, 2021, 06:14:01 PM
It's been over a year but something popped up in my "Get to it later" pile of rods in a corner, a WATSON DOUBLE BILT, about 7' hex with 2 guides and the tip, one guide okay ,one broken, the tip top long lost.   The original thread work was bright red.  The tip is quite close to the next guide, about 7" like the Tycoon 1000.  Is that a bamboo boat rod thing as the bamboo casters I have seem to have a "normal" spread.

I found a guy I'm comfortable with to restore the Tycoon, a tiny cellar shop, advertises himself as a fly rod guy, but seems to have the inventory to handle about anything.  Like the late "Droppedit" Dave to whom John Taylor was gracious enough to introduce me to only a few months prior to Dave's being taken by a particularly
aggressive cancer.  My new guy Ray is definitely cut from the same cloth, and not quite so sure that the 60's are quite over yet.  The Tycoon is in his hospital as I type, expect it back in 3 or 4 weeks

Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: 54bullseye on September 06, 2021, 10:38:58 PM
Quote from: Cuttyhunker on June 06, 2020, 09:03:34 PM
Doing Tycoon research I found this on Ed Pritchard's site, a salesman's cross sectional sample display of Tycoon rods, he has, as you would expect, a bunch of additional Tycoon info.
That Tycoon board has a new home !!!! In Mass  LOL !!   John Taylor
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: Cuttyhunker on November 21, 2022, 02:04:26 PM
Bullseye,
Dave Turner mentioned in an earlier post on this thread using an ALPS printer for duplicating decals.  I've attached a small article about doing just that for a different application than rods you may find interesting.

Reelytyme (Randy) here in Crystal River FL has hooked me up with Joe Castiglio in Leesburg to restore the Tycoon. I'll post some after pics when I get the old girl back
Title: Re: Tycoon 1000 restoration
Post by: 1badf350 on November 21, 2022, 04:38:15 PM
Be careful duplicating decals. Tim O'brien holds the copyright, trademark, etc. on Tycoon Tackle. He may provide you with what you need but he would not be happy if he found out people were duplicating on their own.
If Joe is doing the restoration, he's a good guy and works closely with Tim.