Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Shimano Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: captscott on June 07, 2020, 03:04:32 PM

Title: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: captscott on June 07, 2020, 03:04:32 PM
Hey guys, I have a pair of 1st gen torium 20s, that I primarily use for tarpon fishing. I have torn them down several times. Alan hooked me up years ago with the Trinidad spring and pawl upgrade, and I also installed carbontex drag washers. Recently I've been experiencing a problem with the drags on both reels,  but one in particular. The drags are getting weaker I rebuilt them this spring. Cleaned and regreased the drags, even bought new belleville washers, to no avail. In fact the weakest of the two, is unusable at only 5lbs of drag or so locked down. Do carbontex drag washers wear out? Does anyone have any ideas how to fix this problem? I'm considering just picking up a few new reels, but thought I'd ask here first. Thanks!!
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: boon on June 07, 2020, 11:45:01 PM
My Torium 16 and 20 would make 20lb+ drag without too much effort. I would pull the drag stack apart and make sure everything is nesting into the gear correctly and that the eared washers still have their ears.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: alantani on June 07, 2020, 11:59:25 PM
carbon fiber never wears out.  you don't have braid that is slipping on the spool?
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: captscott on June 08, 2020, 03:02:11 AM
No, I did respool them with fresh braid, but covered the bottom of the spool with 30lb mono before tying in the new braid.

I'm 100% sure I assembled the drag stack properly with schematic in hand...is it possible to over grease the drags? I used just enough to cover both sides of each drag washer???

Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: josa1 on June 08, 2020, 03:17:38 AM
Could it possibly be the anti reverse bearing?  Sounds like it to me.

josa1
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: boon on June 08, 2020, 07:45:56 AM
Quote from: josa1 on June 08, 2020, 03:17:38 AM
Could it possibly be the anti reverse bearing?  Sounds like it to me.

josa1

I thought that too, the ARB on these isn't that strong, and if something went wrong with the sprung dog conversion that would do it. But then the handle would go backwards, surely? Which would make it an easy one to diagnose.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: alantani on June 08, 2020, 03:04:21 PM
ok, then there is one last thing.  there is a carbontex drag under the main gear.  at the beginning, it was just a hair too thin and would not allow you to get full drag out of the reel.  it's possible that the drag washers has become compressed and now the problem is worse.  one option would be to get one of the new drag washers that smooth drag now uses.  what i used to use was the penn ht-100 #6-113h.  that did the trick.  if you have one available, give it a try. 

if needed, i can drop them into the mail to you.  send me a pm and let me know. 
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: handi2 on June 08, 2020, 05:38:01 PM
Another thought. Remove the handle, drag star, and bellvilles off the reel. Look and see how far the inner sleeve protrudes above the clutch bearing. If its just a tiny bit I add bearing thrust washers to the top of the inner sleeve.

Once the inner sleeve is pushed flush with the clutch bearing that all the drag you can get.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: captscott on June 09, 2020, 03:41:21 AM
Quote from: alantani on June 08, 2020, 03:04:21 PM
ok, then there is one last thing.  there is a carbontex drag under the main gear.  at the beginning, it was just a hair too thin and would not allow you to get full drag out of the reel.  it's possible that the drag washers has become compressed and now the problem is worse.  one option would be to get one of the new drag washers that smooth drag now uses.  what i used to use was the penn ht-100 #6-113h.  that did the trick.  if you have one available, give it a try. 

if needed, i can drop them into the mail to you.  send me a pm and let me know. 

That makes a lot of sense. I must admit,  as much as I try to remember to back the drags off I have occasionally forgotten and left them tightened for a while. I will send you a pm Alan thank you for the very generous offer.

Handi thanks for that suggestion will check that when I pull them apart. Thanks to all for your suggestions I appreciate it!!
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: captscott on June 09, 2020, 03:41:51 PM
Alan I sent you a pm, not sure if it went thru. Can you confirm?
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: alantani on June 09, 2020, 06:20:04 PM
got it.  the drag washers are greased and in the mail!!!
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: captscott on June 10, 2020, 02:53:51 AM
Fantastic!! Thanks Alan.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: captscott on June 23, 2020, 01:19:54 AM
Just an update guys. The thicker washer under the stack did the trick. Went from 4lbs of drag to just below 18lbs. Thank you all for your suggestions, and a special thank you to Alan for the washers!! Cant wait to get some baits in the water with these!!! Happy fishing guys.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: alantani on June 23, 2020, 05:14:16 AM
it was a problem that we found with the first sets of carbontex drag sets for the torium's.  that problem must have been fixed, because i now use the currently available full sets and have no problems. 
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Realfunone on July 26, 2020, 04:34:41 PM
My friend last week had issues with his torium 16 hg. The drag pressure kept backing off while fighting a bft.40 lb. I'm going to take it apart to find the problem. It's only been used a few times and never been opened up. What is causing the drags to back off?
I just opened up the reel. I don't see anything that isnt normal. The belvilles look ok but thin. Should I replace all the drag washers as Alan mentioned? This is a left handed model. I don't think that matters?
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: boon on July 27, 2020, 12:42:01 AM
Torium HGA or original HG?

If it's an original with the "dartanium" drags, they're trash, replace with carbontex. If it's a modern one with "Dartanium 2" they're woven CF and essentially no different to Carbontex.

Can you describe the symptoms a little better? A fish pulling on your line is a poor way to measure drag performance.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Realfunone on July 27, 2020, 03:47:45 AM
The way it was described to me as the drag pressure kept backing off during the fight. Had to constantly tighten the drags. This has the cf drags and like I said it's only a year old and used a couple times.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: alantani on July 27, 2020, 03:04:45 PM
usually it's because the metal drag washers are out of order......   :-\
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: MarkT on July 27, 2020, 03:17:43 PM
Is the spring (2063 Star Drag Spring) under the handle missing?
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Realfunone on July 27, 2020, 08:31:12 PM
The little mini one? No  it's there . it's never been worked on. I'm thinking that he left the drags buttoned down since last year and their compressed. I like the idea of adding a shim on top under the star?
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Brendan on July 28, 2020, 01:14:31 PM
A friend of mine brought his sons Torium 20 to me with the same complaint. I replaced the existing drag washers with Carbontex from Smooth Drag and cleaned up the mess left behind from the old washers. I didn't see anything else that appeared wrong. I guess I need to follow up and see if the problem still exists.
Tight lines, Brendan
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Realfunone on July 28, 2020, 01:34:34 PM
Brendan did that reel have carbon fiber drags ?  I guess I will replace also.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Brendan on July 29, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
it  was a gooey mess. I cant find pictures but I replaced with Carbontex. I have not heard the results. I will try to contact him as i'm sure he has got a few fish on it by now.
Tight lines, Brendan.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Realfunone on August 01, 2020, 04:43:07 AM
So I replaced with smooth drags. I did mic the old against the new. New we're thicker and it appeared that the weave of the washer is more pronounced. Maybe the old ones were just compressed. I g@ve the reel back. Hopefully that does the trick. I think it will.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Gfish on August 01, 2020, 05:00:59 AM
So you pro. repair guys don't test stuff before you get a repaired/maintenanced reel back to 'em? That'ed be like them car repair mechanics: "you come down here on your time, p/u your vehicle, pay the bill and the test drive is all on you, including the time you spend bringing it back if it ain't right"
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Brendan on August 01, 2020, 03:21:39 PM
I didn't take it fishing but I did pull line off repeatedly. And by no means a professional. Favor for a friend.
Haven't heard results from son As we don't have each other's contact information.
Brendan.
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: Realfunone on August 06, 2020, 09:11:46 PM
Quote from: alantani on June 08, 2020, 03:04:21 PM
ok, then there is one last thing.  there is a carbontex drag under the main gear.  at the beginning, it was just a hair too thin and would not allow you to get full drag out of the reel.  it's possible that the drag washers has become compressed and now the problem is worse.  one option would be to get one of the new drag washers that smooth drag now uses.  what i used to use was the penn ht-100 #6-113h.  that did the trick.  if you have one available, give it a try. 

if needed, i can drop them into the mail to you.  send me a pm and let me know. 
Alan your suggestion ht100#6 . What does the #6 mean?
Title: Re: Torium 20 drag?
Post by: alantani on August 07, 2020, 06:25:16 AM
the part number is 6-113h.  that's the drag washer that goes in the 113h penn senator.