I have a 2hp honda outboard, let just say that some how gas was left in it all winter last year [I have no clue how ;-)]
What/how do you guys clean your carbs?
I have seen youtube videos where one guy takes off the float and throws the carb in an ultrasonic cleaner
Another guy just takes off the jet sprays it down, heats up the air/mix screw and cleans that too, says not to use wire as it could damage the carb
Yet another guys uses wires to clean all the holes of the jet.
Just did the carb on my B & S mower (4.5 horse) 3-4 days ago. Poor design; jet is at the bottom of fuel bowl and the smallest particle of anything settling in there clogs things up, so I usually end up taking it off 1-2 a yr. for a clean.
I generally avoid wires, as they can scratch the orifice & change the fuel flow. Have always had good luck with Gumout Carb Cleaner in a can; force of the spray & the cleaner usually gets the job done. While I have it off, check the float needle & seat for crud too.
With more aggressive cleaners, you may have to totally disassemble, as those kind of cleaners will do a number on plastic stuff and gaskets/o-rings.
Frank
Quote from: Gobi King on September 01, 2020, 01:53:52 PM
I have a 2hp honda outboard, let just say that some how gas was left in it all winter last year [I have no clue how ;-)]
What/how do you guys clean your carbs?
I have seen youtube videos where one guy takes off the float and throws the carb in an ultrasonic cleaner
Another guy just takes off the jet sprays it down, heats up the air/mix screw and cleans that too, says not to use wire as it could damage the carb
Yet another guys uses wires to clean all the holes of the jet.
I don't know if this will work but I would get some gasoline stabilizer and fresh gas and put it in the tank and wait overnight. Start tugging the next day. Dominick
Quote from: Dominick on September 01, 2020, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: Gobi King on September 01, 2020, 01:53:52 PM
/mix screw and cleans that too, says not to use wire as it could damage the carb
Yet another guys uses wires to clean all the holes of the jet.
I don't know if this will work but I would get some gasoline stabilizer and fresh gas and put it in the tank and wait overnight. Start tugging the next day. Dominick
I tried that a few times, with carb cleaner, with sea foam, tried straight sea foam ...
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh, no dice.
I took off the carb, it was not that difficult.
(https://i.imgur.com/LcUlwgK.jpg)
BTW using wires in the orifices that pass gasoline is nota good idea. they do sell wires specifically for the job. The wires are like a human hair in thickness. I think the are called orifice cleaners. Dominick
found the carb cleaning wire set on amazon, bought one,
as a backup called the local honda parts marine store and ordered a new carb,
I found out that the air/fuel mix screw is attached with RED loctite, I need to take a torch to it,
Torches and I don't really get along sometimes ;-)
Now - my first thought is torches and fuel carbs do not go together well! And Dominick is spot on - try any decent tool supply or welding shop to find a set. They are used for cleaning torch tips. Still, you need to use care, torch tips are made of much more robust material than potmetal carbs, so you can easily mess up the orifices if you do not have a fine hand. - john
I watch few more carb videos on youtube and
1. ultrasonic cleaner could be use do the clean the carb - not sure how long to run it though
2. gotcha no wire, one guy suggested the use of mono fishing line, well I think I have that :-)
The new carb was $78, oem honda.
the motor is a 2004, but the gaskets all look good, but having an set handy might be helpful
I have only used compressed air - I don't like poking anything in my orifice :D
oh, small carb...
was wondering why anyone needed help, to clean a small crab ;D
or, how Tools and Lubricants would be used ???
Quote from: philaroman on September 03, 2020, 01:49:04 PM
oh, small carb...
was wondering why anyone needed help, to clean a small crab ;D
or, how Tools and Lubricants would be used ???
:D On my phone it shows up as "Cleaning a small car". As I am in the process of selling a corolla which I've just detailed I thought this would be interesting!
Drop that corolla into an ultrasonic cleaner and forget about it ;-)
Phil, I reckon we can clean a small crab with compressed air
Update: I installed the new honda carb and the motor runs fine, I forgot the hose clamp for the fuel line, oh well.
I still need to clean the old carb but I am curious what comes of out of the jets etc.
I've been through this many times. If I can get motor to start I will use Sea Foam & head for the closest water less than 5 min. away. I basically run the motor until it clears using Sea Foam straight into carb. The high speed jet can be an issue with most carbs with gas left in them over winter. Clogged high speed jet, motor will stammer & stutter at full throttle, boat never getting on step... Jeff
yeah, I left gas it in the first year and high speed jets clogged, I used seafoam and that cleared the issue.
I ran fine last year and I again left the gas in the motor and CLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOG.
New plan:
1. Use only Ethanol free gas
2. Cut gas and run motor till it dies at lunch
3. Drain gas out of carb
I had to take one apart,,, ;) make sure the jet moves freely,,,,,, ;D
You can buy "fuel" for both 4 cycle, and 2 cycle motors that is stable for 2 years (5 years , in an unopened can). It's pricey....about $8 for a quart can, but, for generators, mowers, chainsaws, etc., it's the berries for 'putting them to bed'...I either "run out", or drain the gas at the end of season, add a pint ,or so, of the "fuel', start it up, run it for a minute, or so, and shut it down.....seems to work great! I used to use 'Stable" fuel additive, then Seafoam came out, and seemed to work better.....but this new stuff is better yet (or seems to be, to me :-\), and there is no "mixing or monkeying", just dump it in.
Arlyn, is that a Stihl product? The place we bought our chain saw recommended we only use these little quart cans of Stihl gas.
-steve
Stihl makes some, but there are a couple other brands, as well. I first became aware of it from our "chainsaw store'...a Stihl dealer, and small engine shop. I just bought a new generator from them, and they are really recommending that folks use this , instead of stable, or Seafoam.
https://www.amazon.com/Small-Engine-Fuels-6238-Ethanol-Free/dp/B00W9595JG/ref=sr_1_13?crid=2DPJFSVIFBG0X
they make both 4 cycle, and 2 cycle blends. I think you can also get different "mix ratios" in the 2 cycle fuel. I know the regular Stihl 2 cycle fuel come in two different ratios...or used to, anyway. Most everything we have , now is 50-1. The 4 cycle fuel was something I didn't realize was available...until the guy told me that he really recommended it over using "fuel additives"
Arlyn, I have seen that at wallys,
is this the same as ethanol free gas?
we have some station near me that sells ethanol free gas and the station near the race track sells race gas.
race gas is $4 / gal
ethanol free has a 40 cents /gal markup
I will definitely use these for my small engines going forward,
my 4 cycle weed trimmer dies due to ethanol...
The kinds I have seen all say "ethanol free".
I don't understand this ethanol free discussion. I don't think it has anything to do with clogged orifices. The only problem I know of with ethanol is that it sometimes causes fracking. If that occurs, one just drains the fuel and water adds fresh gasoline and voila you are good to go. Please explain if I am wrong. Dominick
My "take" on the ethanol is, the water in the fuel (usually from condensation, but from any source) will collect in any "low place" in the fuel system. When it gets to the carb bowl, in a "sufficient amount" it causes misfires, stall, etc. ...and if left during storage, causes corrosion in the carb.. The alcohol added to the fuel lets the water "mix" with the fuel, and pass on through the carb, where it's "small" part of the combustion process. Back "in the day", folks would add products like "Heat", to "dry up" the fuel systems, and help deal with "water in the fuel" problems. Then came ethanol additives in gas....the water is constantly being "mixed " with the gas...never being allowed to "set" in the system. 1st problem is, the gas has a "small % of water in it, so it becomes , in effect, a "corrosive element "...tends to work on the aluminum, or "pot metal" carb parts, as well as eroding the brass jets, over time. 2nd problem is, ethanol is a pretty good "cleaner"...so, any corrosion, dirt, etc., in the system gets "washed out", and tends to collect in the jets. So, ethanol (or actually ANY alcohol) tends to both CAUSE corrosion (in some of the fuel system parts), and "wash" that corrosion into the fuel solution, and then, into the jets.
When it first became a "thing" to use the ethanol blended fuels....in the vehicles that had been built for "regular gas"...the alcohol "washed ", or "dissolved" the tin coating from inside the fuel lines, plugged up the fuel filters, and really destroyed lots of the materials that were being used in the fuel systems. Manufacturers learned, and used different "alcohol proof " coatings, and materials, and pretty well took care of most of the fuel related issues. "Small" engine technology, for the most part, is still "old technology", so "regular gas" is usually specified. Although, small engines are "catching up" to the times.
Ethanol will also dissolve a fiberglass fuel tank and makes a sticky sludge that can get into the engine.
-steve
And the other thing about ethanol (besides it being hydrophyllic AND corrosive) - you have to burn roughly twice as much of it to get the same BTU/output as opposed to gasoline. In small amounts mixed in fuel the standard metering systems can adjust - but speaking as an old school "carb guy" you can quickly overwhelm the ability of a carb to deliver enough fuel vs. air as alcohol percentages go up, and require major changes to the metering circuits. - john
When I bought a Stihl saw a few years ago the salesman explained I should only use ethanol free gas in it --and also in any other piece of equipment with a 2 or 4 cycle engine. Engines aren't my forte and I can't remember the details of the conversation other than it would make them run better and prolong the life of the motors. Long story short, I switched to ethanol free and so far so good, which I'm hoping will reverse a long held dogma that 2 cycle engines were sent as a curse upon mankind. I'm also sensing a bit of deja vu here as I seem to recall posting something similar in another thread this year regarding Stihl and ethanol free gas.
Does anyone know how to pronounce Stihl? Is it steel, still, or style? Dominick
I've always pronounced it 'still' - but I'm not from round here. :)
Phonically, it looks like it's pronounced Still.
You can't help but be suspicious that they may have an ulterior motive in selling you $32/gallon gasoline instead of just the occasional chainsaw that lasts a decade or more.
Not saying that the stuff doesn't work, but I doubt that some chainsaw company came up with some brand spanking new chemistry. They must be ordering some combination of existing gasoline, stabilizers and whatnot. Ask Stihl what specifically is in the blend, and see if you get an answer :)
-J.
Quote from: Dominick on September 16, 2020, 12:33:36 AM
Does anyone know how to pronounce Stihl? Is it steel, still, or style? Dominick
I say "steel" and so do our Alaskan kin and our Stihl dealer (local hardware store).
Quote from: wfjord on September 16, 2020, 12:25:35 AM
2 cycle engines were sent as a curse upon mankind.
My sentiments too. It's been agony.
-steve
Quote from: jurelometer on September 16, 2020, 04:46:36 AM
You can't help but be suspicious that they may have an ulterior motive in selling you $32/gallon gasoline instead of just the occasional chainsaw that lasts a decade or more.
Not saying that the stuff doesn't work, but I doubt that some chainsaw company came up with some brand spanking new chemistry. They must be ordering some combination of existing gasoline, stabilizers and whatnot. Ask Stihl what specifically is in the blend, and see if you get an answer :)
-J.
I think the $32 gallon gas is probably just a mixture (in ethanol-free gas) that includes the 2 or 4-cycle oil for those who don't want to mix their own.
Edit: A money making scheme probably. Useful for homeowners with a saw or other 2-cycle power tool who don't need to use a lot of gas --but not a consideration for anyone making their living using gas powered equipment.
That gas is a little higher octane I think. They should give you a can when you buy a new saw at least you think they would. We buy a fair amount of chain saws every year. Now you need a program on a laptop to tune them, it's getting ridiculous. $800 for a stihl 201 climbing saw and heaven forbid you need a new plastic part.
Wow...quite the interesting thread here. Just my experience, for what it's worth. I have 2 Stihl chainsaws that I've used as a homeowner not professional type service. I cut a cord of wood with a permit for fireplace and BBQ use at home, about a cord where we set up elk camp for a few weeks use, and some trimming around the house or for family members/friends. So I'm no "professional sawyer!😁
Unfortunately, due to my not always getting all of my homemade pre-mix fuel out of carbs after each use, I am now very proficient at rebuilding/cleaning the small Stihl cube style carburetors. So, have I learned anything? Well yes.
1) only use genuine Stihl parts.... the knock-off Amazon parts are friendlier for the wallet, but don't last as long!
2) ...and this is most important for my application....only use quality pre-mix fuel in the cans. Stihl has "moto-mix" as Steve referred to, and another one is called "Tru-fuel"...
For me the ease of use, performance, and decrease in necessary carb maintenance, far outweigh the cost!
Just my .02$, for what it's worth. And as I said, I'm not a professional, so my saws see some shelf time between use. The guys that use saws everyday, for a living , most likely have a different program that works better for them😁
Brett
Edit, I should add that since I went exclusively to "canned" fuel 2years ago I have not had any carb issues.
I drain the fuel after use and start it and run/choke til it quits. My Stihl dealer, I say "steel" tells me I don't even have to do that if it's not going to sit more than a year, but I do it anyways!!!!
I promise to use my 2 hp honda outboard more and not let it sit for 13 months with gas inside :-)
I have used ethanol gas till now, and starting this year I will use ethanol free gas with seafoam or other carb cleaners and see how that goes.
I have a 2 cycle HB 800 generator that I let sit with gas inside (with 2 cycle), I am going to try starting next, see how that goes.
Arlyn, I will pick wait till end of the season and pick up some of those canned fuel on clearance for later
Quote from: Swami805 on September 16, 2020, 12:41:34 PM
That gas is a little higher octane I think. They should give you a can when you buy a new saw at least you think they would. We buy a fair amount of chain saws every year. Now you need a program on a laptop to tune them, it's getting ridiculous. $800 for a stihl 201 climbing saw and heaven forbid you need a new plastic part.
Years ago I thought the same. My Stihl 200t a prior, non EPA compliant saw, sold for $650 will make me well over $250, 000 in its life span. Then I rebuild & do close to the same again. Both 200t's I have now have been rebuilt twice.
Is a regular home owner going to benefit from a professional grade Stihl. Probably not.
Look at what your local water & fire rescue rescue does for their saws & gas powered equipment in storage. They cannot afford have equipment go down from fuel related stoppage. The gas in California is not what we have here in Kansas. So there can be differences in how to deal with it.
People in our Gov. believe they can make our fuel better by adding stuff. In most cases its these additives that cause our fuel to go bad quickly.
Wanna make have an endless supply of cash ? Are "VERY" well connected ? Come up with a fuel additive that your state adds to all pump gas. There are those that are so self centered that being tied up, toe nails plucked & placed under their glued shut eyelids might not be punishment enough. I'm off on a tangent, chasing rabbits... Jeff