Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Spinning Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Daiwa => Topic started by: JasonGotaProblem on September 07, 2020, 07:58:49 PM

Title: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on September 07, 2020, 07:58:49 PM
Is it any good? I saw one for cheap and I'm looking for a good reliable light tackle reel.

(Edit: changing the name of the thread as it's ceased to be related to the 1600 model)
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: nelz on September 07, 2020, 08:15:58 PM
They have a stellar reputation, especially the drag, line-lay, and casting ability. A little too old school for me though.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on September 07, 2020, 08:53:12 PM
I think daiwa still makes 'em...  minimally changed for like 40(?) yrs.
not sure about 1600-size...  maybe, too much for F/W "light tackle" & not enough for salt
if it's cheap & good condition, get it now & figure out where it fits, later
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on September 07, 2020, 10:34:29 PM
Quote from: philaroman on September 07, 2020, 08:53:12 PM
I think daiwa still makes 'em...  minimally changed for like 40(?) yrs.
not sure about 1600-size...  maybe, too much for F/W "light tackle" & not enough for salt
if it's cheap & good condition, get it now & figure out where it fits, later
Seems noteworthy that not only do they still make them, they sell for BG prices new
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on September 08, 2020, 12:35:27 AM
the smaller, "more finesse" you go, the more I like SS over BG
SS-750 is the only UL (a little big by current tastes, but still a true UL),
that I can think of w/ tall spool, 6-stack, and worm oscillation
external bail trip, small line roller & "boxy look" are old-skool
everything else is pretty modern & pretty good
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on September 08, 2020, 12:46:05 AM
BTW, there were also fancy (tan/gold?) JDM models for a few years:
internal trip; big roller; nicer (machined?) handle; more bearings
if it's that, POUNCE/RARE!!!
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on September 08, 2020, 12:53:13 AM
The one I'm looking at is made in Japan of that matters, and is black and gold.
I wanna build a lighter saltwater rig. When I landed a slot redfish on my BG4000 it took away a bit of the fun knowing that since the hook was set, he was mine. There was no chance of him getting away. Is it crazy to want more of a challenge?
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: oc1 on September 08, 2020, 04:42:10 AM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on September 08, 2020, 12:53:13 AM
Is it crazy to want more of a challenge?
You don't need all of those amenities to have fun.
-steve
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: tincanary on November 18, 2020, 01:03:25 PM
These are great reels, but not for everybody if you're looking for overall smoothness.  If you want a workhorse that will last years, this is your spinner.  The reliability of this thing is right up there with the Mitchell 300 and Zebco /Abu Cardinal reels.  They have been in production relatively unchanged for 30 years.  Earlier models were made in Japan and the newer production units made in Thailand.  According to my research, the Thai model is better built than the Japanese model, if you can believe that.  I have no direct experience with the Japanese made reels so I can't comment on that personally.  You can really smooth these guys out good.  First, there's a plastic bushing that supports the worm gear, you can swap that out for a bearing.  Another one, the line roller comes unlubricated out of the box, give that a little bit of grease.  Carbontex and polished drag disks also make it better.  Various other internal parts can be polished to smooth it out as well. 

The main selling point of this reel, besides the drag, is that it uses a worm gear instead of an oscillating gear.  This lays the line in a way that makes it capable of exceptionally long casts.  It's also pretty light compared to other reels its size in spite of it being a 30 year old design.  I own a newer production SS700 and fish it on a 7'6" 4wt fly blank and it can cast the tiniest of baits with ease.  It's a great setup for stream trout, casting small spoons and spinners, small cranks, and jigs as well.  One of these days I will have to post a tutorial on it showing which areas to give attention. in order to smooth it out.  She may be ugly, but man can she cook.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on November 18, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: tincanary on November 18, 2020, 01:03:25 PM
These are great reels, but not for everybody if you're looking for overall smoothness.  If you want a workhorse that will last years, this is your spinner.  The reliability of this thing is right up there with the Mitchell 300 and Zebco /Abu Cardinal reels.  They have been in production relatively unchanged for 30 years.  Earlier models were made in Japan and the newer production units made in Thailand.  According to my research, the Thai model is better built than the Japanese model, if you can believe that.  I have no direct experience with the Japanese made reels so I can't comment on that personally.  You can really smooth these guys out good.  First, there's a plastic bushing that supports the worm gear, you can swap that out for a bearing.  Another one, the line roller comes unlubricated out of the box, give that a little bit of grease.  Carbontex and polished drag disks also make it better.  Various other internal parts can be polished to smooth it out as well. 

The main selling point of this reel, besides the drag, is that it uses a worm gear instead of an oscillating gear.  This lays the line in a way that makes it capable of exceptionally long casts.  It's also pretty light compared to other reels its size in spite of it being a 30 year old design.  I own a newer production SS700 and fish it on a 7'6" 4wt fly blank and it can cast the tiniest of baits with ease.  It's a great setup for stream trout, casting small spoons and spinners, small cranks, and jigs as well.  One of these days I will have to post a tutorial on it showing which areas to give attention. in order to smooth it out.  She may be ugly, but man can she cook.
Sadly I ended up passing on this one. Truth be told I was (and still kinda am) looking for an ultralight, and the 1600 is a bit too big for that category. I'd really like a 700 that i can put on a bass rod or something to play with while I'm waiting for something bigger to hit my main rig(s). But I have yet to find a 700 for a reasonable price. You've confirmed for me that its worth continuing to look for one.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: tincanary on November 18, 2020, 07:08:58 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on November 18, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Sadly I ended up passing on this one. Truth be told I was (and still kinda am) looking for an ultralight, and the 1600 is a bit too big for that category. I'd really like a 700 that i can put on a bass rod or something to play with while I'm waiting for something bigger to hit my main rig(s). But I have yet to find a 700 for a reasonable price. You've confirmed for me that its worth continuing to look for one.

You can still buy them brand new, the 700 and 1300 sizes run $105, but you can find them cheaper if you look around.  I got my 700 from FishUSA some months back on sale for $85.  For what I'm seeing used reels go for, you may be better off just buying a new one.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on November 18, 2020, 07:19:11 PM
Quote from: tincanary on November 18, 2020, 07:08:58 PM
You can still buy them brand new, the 700 and 1300 sizes run $105, but you can find them cheaper if you look around.  I got my 700 from FishUSA some months back on sale for $85.  For what I'm seeing used reels go for, you may be better off just buying a new one.
Good point. I had been actively trying to find a "made in Japan" model. But now I'm hearing maybe that should not be the goal. Why are the thailand ones better?

And i was talking about this IRL the other day with one of my buddies, that I feel perfectly safe buying an old larger Penn reel used because they're made of big chunky hard to damage parts, so it could have been used roughly and still be just fine. Perhaps not the case with some of these smaller lighter reels? Maybe these more delicate models should be bought new.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: tincanary on November 18, 2020, 07:28:40 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on November 18, 2020, 07:19:11 PM
Good point. I had been actively trying to find a "made in Japan" model. But now I'm hearing maybe that should not be the goal. Why are the thailand ones better?

And i was talking about this IRL the other day with one of my buddies, that I feel perfectly safe buying an old larger Penn reel used because they're made of big chunky hard to damage parts, so it could have been used roughly and still be just fine. Perhaps not the case with some of these smaller lighter reels? Maybe these more delicate models should be bought new.

From what I've read, the Thai models have better bearings and gears.  I dunno how true that is since I've never opened up a Japanese model, but it seems to be the general consensus.  Have a look here http://www.tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=79718
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on November 18, 2020, 08:56:30 PM
as I understand, the earliest Thai models are same as Japanese & doubtfully better-made

later Thai models have all the little tweaks/improvements accumulated over decades of production -- hence, better

no idea how to distinguish by sight
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: thrasher on November 19, 2020, 12:43:44 AM
I've been thinking of getting an old Daiwa reel simply because I have never owned one. This looks like a very cool reel and a good place to start.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on November 19, 2020, 05:56:49 AM
Quote from: tincanary on November 18, 2020, 07:28:40 PM

From what I've read, the Thai models have better bearings and gears.  I dunno how true that is since I've never opened up a Japanese model, but it seems to be the general consensus.  Have a look here http://www.tackletour.net/viewtopic.php?t=79718
That was an interesting read. Especially the part about polishing the metal washers in the drag. I've never heard of that before but logically at least the concept checks out. Might have to give that some thought.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: thrasher on December 22, 2020, 02:37:56 PM
Quote from: philaroman on September 08, 2020, 12:46:05 AM
BTW, there were also fancy (tan/gold?) JDM models for a few years:
internal trip; big roller; nicer (machined?) handle; more bearings
if it's that, POUNCE/RARE!!!

Sorry to post on an existing thread but since this thread started me down the worm oscillation hole I figured I'd give it a go. The first reel I bought was a Emblem-Z 1500i and just got an offer accepted on a SS850 like the one pictured in Philaroman post. I am a sucker for wood handles and I saw POUNCE/RARE so I did just that  ;D
(http://[img]https://alantani.com/gallery/34/16721_22_12_20_7_36_05.jpeg)(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/16721_22_12_20_7_35_40.jpeg)
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 22, 2020, 02:59:28 PM
Quote from: thrasher on December 22, 2020, 02:37:56 PM
Quote from: philaroman on September 08, 2020, 12:46:05 AM
BTW, there were also fancy (tan/gold?) JDM models for a few years:
internal trip; big roller; nicer (machined?) handle; more bearings
if it's that, POUNCE/RARE!!!

Sorry to post on an existing thread but since this thread started me down the worm oscillation hole I figured I'd give it a go. The first reel I bought was a Emblem-Z 1500i and just got an offer accepted on a SS850 like the one pictured in Philaroman post. I am a sucker for wood handles and I saw POUNCE/RARE so I did just that  ;D
(http://[img]https://alantani.com/gallery/34/16721_22_12_20_7_36_05.jpeg)(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/16721_22_12_20_7_35_40.jpeg)
I was just talking about this reel on the other thread. I'm waiting for mine to arrive. Not in as good a shape as yours, but I only paid $50

I'm so freaking excited. The ss700 that arrived last night is gorgeous. If the 850 is an upgrade to that I'm in heaven.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: thrasher on December 22, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
I got mine for $50 also, I hope we didn't buy the same reel  ;D

That SS700 in the other post looks very nice indeed, your friend will be stoked!! What lb ssv2 do you plan on using for yours?
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 22, 2020, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: thrasher on December 22, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
I got mine for $50 also, I hope we didn't buy the same reel  ;D

That SS700 in the other post looks very nice indeed, your friend will be stoked!! What lb ssv2 do you plan on using for yours?

I'm gonna go 10 lb braid on this. It'll hold 150yds. But im considering sticking with the daiwa theme and going for the x8 J-braid, and i kinda wanna go multicolor. I don't think daiwa samurai comes in 10 lb size, but supposedly the 15 lb is the same diameter as ssv2 10 lb. Decisions to make.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on December 22, 2020, 04:04:01 PM
sweet!  $50 total is cheap, IMO
"POUNCE/RARE" was meant for Jason who was looking at an affordable SS, already in US
the "fancy SS" seem to be available from Japan, but those are mostly well-used unlike yours
(I want barely-used, from mid-West, that never even smelled salt air, LOL)

should be all modern features minus instant A/R
sturdier than Emblem, but be gentle w/ that frail-bail
more fragile than later designs -- bail-wire more likely to come out of bail-head
(not necessarily broken...  just separates after years of use)

Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 22, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
Mine shipped from Missouri. Not sure how a weird rare spinner that to my understanding was only sold in Japan ended up in MO, but given that the seller didn't realize it was an ss850, I suspect he doesn't know the history.

Mine will definitely see salt. But it'll see some enthusiastic greasing first. I'm just scared of how small the parts in there will be. I struggled with a 4000 spheros. This thing is tiiiiiiny.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on December 22, 2020, 06:03:29 PM
see salt -- no problem
lived near salt, BEFORE it got to my hands -- me no likee
I want condition like Thrasher's, w/ provenance like yours  ::)
I'll go $60 no prob.  ;D
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 22, 2020, 06:32:58 PM
Turns out I misread the chart that I used to determine the model of the reel I have on the way. Its a 750 not an 850. So, even more rare, apparently.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on December 22, 2020, 11:07:14 PM
BTW, there's a smaller gold SS...  650(?)
that's the one I've occasionally browsed for, over the years
and that's probably a factor in my rare/expensive assessment
in retrospect, feel kinda' stupid
any X50 smaller than 1000 would have been fine
thrasher's 850 looks like a steal
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 22, 2020, 11:22:28 PM
Quote from: philaroman on December 22, 2020, 11:07:14 PM
BTW, there's a smaller gold SS...  650(?)
that's the one I've occasionally browsed for, over the years
and that's probably a factor in my rare/expensive assessment
in retrospect, feel kinda' stupid
any X50 smaller than 1000 would have been fine
thrasher's 850 looks like a steal

Yeah for 50 bucks he got one in much better condition. And I may be wrong about it being a 750 as well. I was trying to use line capacity as my way to determine but I think I got it wrong. Its holds more than a 700 but less than an 850, but the body shape looks like the one pictured above and none ofnthe 750s I've seen look like that. I'm just gonna have to wait til it gets here and figure it out. I love a good mystery.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: thrasher on December 22, 2020, 11:40:51 PM
Quote from: philaroman on December 22, 2020, 11:07:14 PM
BTW, there's a smaller gold SS...  650(?)
that's the one I've occasionally browsed for, over the years
and that's probably a factor in my rare/expensive assessment
in retrospect, feel kinda' stupid
any X50 smaller than 1000 would have been fine
thrasher's 850 looks like a steal

I was searching the sold Daiwa SS reels on eBay and saw a silver ss600 and thought it looked right up my alley. Man I thought the ss700 that Jason was holding was small.

The POUNCE/RARE comment I made was sort of a joke, I had already purchased the reel. I just wanted a wood handle whisker and I am excited for it's arrival.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: philaroman on December 23, 2020, 06:02:52 AM
Quote from: philaroman on December 22, 2020, 11:07:14 PM
BTW, there's a smaller gold SS...  650(?)
Quote from: thrasher on December 22, 2020, 11:40:51 PM
I was searching the sold Daiwa SS reels on eBay and saw a silver ss600 and thought it looked right up my alley.
prob. same reel -- that Japanese light-gold in var. fading stages & subject to eBay photography
can look like silver under "warmer" lighting, or light tan under harsh light

Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on December 22, 2020, 11:22:28 PM
Yeah for 50 bucks he got one in much better condition. And I may be wrong about it being a 750 as well. I was trying to use line capacity as my way to determine but I think I got it wrong. Its holds more than a 700 but less than an 850, but the body shape looks like the one pictured above and none ofnthe 750s I've seen look like that. I'm just gonna have to wait til it gets here and figure it out. I love a good mystery.

yeah, that $50-850 looks extra pounce-worthy, but yours is from MAZURAH, DAMMIT !  
pretty sure it ain't never seen a snook  ;D  prob. a trout/crappie reel
w/ another decade or two left on the main gear, regardless of external seasoning
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: thrasher on December 23, 2020, 01:29:49 PM
Jason, did you get the SS shipped from Joplin MO that was photographed on a outdoor metal table? It's missing the badges but the line capacity is identical to my Emblem-z 1500i which is pretty darn small. As we know, I'm no Daiwa expert but it would seem to be smaller than the 850 and if so I would say you got a good one.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 23, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
Quote from: thrasher on December 23, 2020, 01:29:49 PM
Jason, did you get the SS shipped from Joplin MO that was photographed on a outdoor metal table? It's missing the badges but the line capacity is identical to my Emblem-z 1500i which is pretty darn small. As we know, I'm no Daiwa expert but it would seem to be smaller than the 850 and if so I would say you got a good one.
That's the one. No idea what to expect but I know its gonna be a little fella.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: thrasher on December 23, 2020, 02:49:13 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on December 23, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
Quote from: thrasher on December 23, 2020, 01:29:49 PM
Jason, did you get the SS shipped from Joplin MO that was photographed on a outdoor metal table? It's missing the badges but the line capacity is identical to my Emblem-z 1500i which is pretty darn small. As we know, I'm no Daiwa expert but it would seem to be smaller than the 850 and if so I would say you got a good one.
That's the one. No idea what to expect but I know its gonna be a little fella.

Sweet, I saw that reel a couple days ago on the sold list and thought damn, I missed one. I think that reel will clean up real nice, looks like it was used then stored in the barn for years.
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: thrasher on December 26, 2020, 10:54:57 PM
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/16721_26_12_20_3_40_56.jpeg)

I just got my SS850 in the mail and was just wondering if you got yours yet. I'm super interested if that is indeed a SS600 because I know it is a heck of a lot smaller than the 850.

If I read the rotor part number on your reel correctly(E3681-2) that is indeed a ss600 according to the schematics I found online. I am not sure why I'm more excited about your reel  ;D
Title: Re: Whisker SS 1600
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 27, 2020, 12:26:18 AM
Quote from: thrasher on December 26, 2020, 10:54:57 PM
I just got my SS850 in the mail and was just wondering if you got yours yet. I'm super interested if that is indeed a SS600 because I know it is a heck of a lot smaller than the 850.

If I read the rotor part number on your reel correctly(E3681-2) that is indeed a ss600 according to the schematics I found online. I am not sure why I'm more excited about your reel  ;D
I'm told it's in my mailbox but I'm 120 miles away. I'm super excited to see what I got.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 29, 2020, 01:37:05 AM
It arrived today. Definitely needs some cleanup and its got a noticeable rotor wobble, and it rubs at a certain spot while reeling. Might just need tightening somewhere. This one may be a candidate for its own thread as a restoration project.

Edit: paying attention to where the "rub" is and applying logic i conclude its at the point where the pin on the worm changes direction from up to down. Ok no more reeling til I give it a tune up.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on December 29, 2020, 02:19:29 AM
Man that is a tiny one, is it smaller than your gold ss700? I would definitely be interested in following a restoration thread.

I was surprised to see that both the main gear and the pinion gear were machined aluminum, the spool is an interesting design with this generation as well.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 29, 2020, 02:49:16 AM
Quote from: thrasher on December 29, 2020, 02:19:29 AM
Man that is a tiny one, is it smaller than your gold ss700? I would definitely be interested in following a restoration thread.

I was surprised to see that both the main gear and the pinion gear were machined aluminum, the spool is an interesting design with this generation as well.
It seems like exactly the same size as the 700.
Maybe thats what people mean when they say the modern Thai made models have better gears than the older Japanese models. I know the modern ones have a brass pinion at least.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on December 29, 2020, 03:28:25 AM
look at those corners (foot, rotor, bottom frame cover) -- BARELY USED!!!
smallest size makes it more valuable than thrasher's 850 (unless you need parts)...  hopefully, worm is just gummed up

check w/ thrasher, to make sure your rotor has a balancing weight, same place as his
don't know about Daiwa, but some Shimano from that era just had a hunk of lead glued to top of rotor
invariably missing, when buying used decades later
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on December 29, 2020, 03:13:48 PM
I believe I read somewhere that these reels didn't get a balanced rotor until they went with a infinite anti reverse(corrected from instant anti reverse) in the next generation(all plastic gold colored).
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/16721_29_12_20_8_08_09.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/34/16721_29_12_20_8_09_25.jpeg)
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on December 29, 2020, 03:21:18 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on December 29, 2020, 02:49:16 AM
Quote from: thrasher on December 29, 2020, 02:19:29 AM
Man that is a tiny one, is it smaller than your gold ss700? I would definitely be interested in following a restoration thread.

I was surprised to see that both the main gear and the pinion gear were machined aluminum, the spool is an interesting design with this generation as well.
It seems like exactly the same size as the 700.
Maybe thats what people mean when they say the modern Thai made models have better gears than the older Japanese models. I know the modern ones have a brass pinion at least.


I remember you guys talking about Thai vs Japan versions but didn't really grasped what you were saying until now.

I thought the machined aluminum was an upgrade from the cast main gears I've seen and used in older reels  ;D Maybe I just don't catch big enough fish to have cheap cast gears stripped
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on December 29, 2020, 03:55:31 PM
alloy main is expected; alloy pinion is disappointing
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 29, 2020, 04:12:18 PM
Not to split hairs but the modern ones have a silent AR not instant AR.

I see at least 4 listings for brass pinions on the 'bay for an SS700 and I am inclined to believe they'll be interchangeable. I may wager that $8 on finding out.

Machined main and brass pinion might be a winning combo.

2 sets of SS700 carbon drags arrived yesterday. I wagered $10 that those would be interchangeable as well. I'll try to find out tonight when I crack this fella open. Given the 673,836,948 other reels this size drag fits on per the smooth drag packaging, I'm optimistic.

Also when I mentioned the rotor wobble i just mean I can wiggle it with my fingers and it moves. I'm hoping its just a loose rotor nut or something.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on December 30, 2020, 05:34:31 PM
Ok so my logic was that i should do the salt-prep-pre-service on the ss700 first so I can see what its supposed to look like before trying to repair the other one. Well, it could have gone better but it also could have gone worse. It feels a bit more sluggish, but then adding a bunch of grease could explain that. It does feel like there's a spot in the rotation thats a bit tighter and I'm likely gonna go back in and make sure nothing is amiss.

Every time I do something like this I tell myself I'm gonna take a ton of pics. Then I remember how greasy my hands get and how much I hate a greasy phone. For the JDM SS I might just put.my phone on a stand and set it on a timer or something.

Also i ordered a set of, well, pretty much all the gears from a modern SS700 on the 'bay for a pretty good price. I got it to upgrade whatever I find to be lacking in the SS650 when I open it up. I figured I'd do a once over on the stock parts now and open it again when the replacements arrive, but that was before i realized how tedious these are to work on. So odds are I'll set that reel aside for a week til the parts arrive.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 01, 2021, 07:41:27 PM
I believe the problem was grease on the shaft. There isn't a ton of clearance between spool shaft and inside wall of pinion. My spool shaft may also be slightly bent. But it's working better now that I cleaned off the shaft and hit it with some oil.

Also I replaced the felt drags with carbon, and mirror-polished the metal drag washers. That actually makes a huge difference, the drag is incredibly smooth and feels a bit more linear. I may need to do that to all my reels.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 01, 2021, 10:02:31 PM
burnish/polish inside pinion -- that's probably never been done
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: SteveL on January 01, 2021, 10:10:59 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on January 01, 2021, 07:41:27 PM
I believe the problem was grease on the shaft. There isn't a ton of clearance between spool shaft and inside wall of pinion. My spool shaft may also be slightly bent. But it's working better now that I cleaned off the shaft and hit it with some oil.

Also I replaced the felt drags with carbon, and mirror-polished the metal drag washers. That actually makes a huge difference, the drag is incredibly smooth and feels a bit more linear. I may need to do that to all my reels.

I use 3M 800 grit and 1500 grit wet and dry, then follow up with 3M Trizact 3000 and 5000 grit.  Trizact isn't cheap, about $8 for a sheet but it seems to last better than the wet and dry.  (I also use a couple of passes on Triazact to take any remain roughness off the edge when I sharpen a knife). 
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 01, 2021, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: philaroman on January 01, 2021, 10:02:31 PM
burnish/polish inside pinion -- that's probably never been done
Really? I figured it was a common maneuver. I polished the spool shaft on the last round. And ive also done the inside of the pinion on one of my penn SS reels. Thank you for reminding me of that. I put polishing compound on a qtip and put that on my drill. I'll do it again for this reel.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 01, 2021, 11:11:34 PM
if shaft isn't moving as freely as you want, full-service inside pinion FIRST
roll shaft on sheet of glass to check, but such small, light reel w/ short shaft unlikely to be bent
happens more w/ bigger sizes -- more mass; longer shafts...  "shaft diameter economizing" more of a concern
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 02, 2021, 03:14:50 PM
Are both the bushings for the worm gear and pinion gear still there? Or is there binding when you slide the shaft thru the pinion when it's out of the reel?
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 02, 2021, 03:53:37 PM
Quote from: thrasher on January 02, 2021, 03:14:50 PM
Are both the bushings for the worm gear and pinion gear still there? Or is there binding when you slide the shaft thru the pinion when it's out of the reel?
Yes both bushings are in place. And the slight binding is there when I slide the detached shaft in the pinion. Soni do believe thats the source.

Also this binding is nothing major, the reel is absolutely still fishable. But I'm trying to tune a precision instrument and that just doesnt feel precise. I know it can be better.

Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 02, 2021, 04:14:42 PM
Well that is a good thing, it does sound like a little polishing is in order. The work I've seen you do on your other reels leaves me with no doubt that this thing will be fine tuned indeed! Keep the updates coming  ;D
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 03, 2021, 01:35:07 AM
So this reel is exactly what i was looking for. I have it on a 5'6 8# ugly stik rod, and I just caught my first fish. It was a small cat and it was actually kinda fun. Hooking a big snook or a bull red is gonna be a party. But that's the point.

Oh and it casts like a dream running 10# x8 j-braid.

Gonna likely polish out the pinion tonight. See what's what.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 03, 2021, 04:47:09 AM

the fast graphite you want, should be even more fun w/ the little guys

Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on January 03, 2021, 01:35:07 AMHooking a big snook or a bull red is gonna be a party.

that's when you want the Ugly, which is basically glass
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 03, 2021, 04:28:36 PM
So I polished the heck outta the pinion and the shaft, and now it spins like a dream.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 04, 2021, 03:19:41 PM
I took this lil beast fresh water fishing for about an hour Sunday for the first time in 25 years. Just throwing some soft plastics I got a few bass hits (water was super clear) but nothing landed onshore. I forgot how fun it was. And there's little bass-filled lakes everywhere around here. No more driving an hour to get to salt water every time I get an itch to go fight something.

And I'm considering a set of full ceramic bearings. Since this uses more common sizes I can do so for about $35, potentially less if an offer (that has not yet been made) gets accepted. I wouldn't do it on a reel used for big grouper etc but for a small rig like this it may be reasonable.

And I've decided I'm gonna look for an 8-10' ultralight ideally fast taper rod for the 650. Ive got the shorter "tight spaces rig" box checked. Now time for the long caster.

Brass gears for the 650 arrive today, so I'm gonna crack that one open tonight if plans hold.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 05, 2021, 06:51:26 AM
I opened up the SS600 tonight. (I've been calling it a 650. I've been wrong.) This one's getting its own thread, but it may take a bit to write it up and do a comparison. Very very different inside.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 01:36:53 PM
I thought we were talking about the JDM this whole time :) The worm shaft gear retainer(key#35) is a pain to remove and install on the JDM, I think they eliminated it in the newer models. I also like the lifetime bail on the JDM, those little flat bail springs almost always break on me. There is supposed to be a very small washer on the tail end of the worm gear that can easily get lost if you are not looking for it when removing the worm gear. I'm also very interested in the pinion gear upgrade so keep us posted on that. Does the 600 has two extra eared washers in the drag stack like the 850? It had one on top and bottom of a normal stack, I'm guessing for extra bite with the spool being graphite. I'll definitely be looking out for the thread, thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 05, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 01:36:53 PM
I thought we were talking about the JDM this whole time :) The worm shaft gear retainer(key#35) is a pain to remove and install on the JDM, I think they eliminated it in the newer models. I also like the lifetime bail on the JDM, those little flat bail springs almost always break on me. There is supposed to be a very small washer on the tail end of the worm gear that can easily get lost if you are not looking for it when removing the worm gear. I'm also very interested in the pinion gear upgrade so keep us posted on that. Does the 600 has two extra eared washers in the drag stack like the 850? It had one on top and bottom of a normal stack, I'm guessing for extra bite with the spool being graphite. I'll definitely be looking out for the thread, thanks for posting!
Yeah i assumed it followed the naming convention of the gold body wood knobbed reels with a line roller bearing got the -50 names. But at this point I'm used to being wrong. It's just a step on the road to being right.

The pinion gear is different in this reel, it is, at minimum, a different height. The main is different too. And all bearings are seemingly different from the 700.

So I guess I got a spare gear set for the 700! Oh well it was only 25. If I screw it up in the salt I got it covered.

Also The screw that attaches the spool shaft to the worm slider is badly stripped. I was not able to remove it to compare worm gears. I need to figure out how to get it out. I managed to clean and re-lube in place but that screws gotta go. And I am missing the tiny washer that sits atop the pinion bearing (key #22) and I believe thats the source of the minor rotor wobble. Hopefully those parts are common to other reels and can be substituted.

And mine was only a 3 stack drag, though it sorta looked like there was more vertical room. And the carbon drags for the 700 do fit the 600. I may seek out more drag stacks but with the carbon it feels overpowered as it is. I may just leave it.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 03:15:13 PM
Yeah I noticed the screw looked stripped and shields removed from bearings, definitely opened before. I said supposed to be there because the schematics show it but my 850 looked untouched but it was missing also. I just stripped a cheap PS1305 that is about the same gen as our JDM and it had a brass pinion but plastic bushings. I'll measure the pinion and post picks tonight, seems close in size. 🤞 
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 05, 2021, 04:01:46 PM
really?  eared on top?  can't imagine how that works ???
guessing it doesn't & that's why the reel got sold

in the common configuration, eared "connects" to spool & keyed "connects" to shaft
if you have eared on top, everything is connected via drag knob & it unscrews by itself, when drag is activated

eared washer to cover the bottom of a graphite drag well is normal
maybe it's supposed to have 2 there to adjust height, or knob bottoms out before max drag is reached
now THAT would be COOL!!!  thinnest CF might give you room to squeeze in a 10-stack
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 04:22:02 PM
I thought it seemed weird as well, that's why I was curious about the 600. I can't find schematics that shows the drag stack.

I didn't even try it, just threw it on a shelf but you're are correct it does loosen up.  Something else I will do tonight, 😆
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 05, 2021, 05:21:09 PM
Quote from: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 03:15:13 PM
Yeah I noticed the screw looked stripped and shields removed from bearings, definitely opened before. I said supposed to be there because the schematics show it but my 850 looked untouched but it was missing also. I just stripped a cheap PS1305 that is about the same gen as our JDM and it had a brass pinion but plastic bushings. I'll measure the pinion and post picks tonight, seems close in size. 🤞 
What i am extremely interested in, if you have a caliper and are willing to do some measuring, is the dimensions of that washer that sits on top of the pinion bearing, I've got a modest collection of small brass washers that came out of parts reels, I might be able to find a suitable replacement in there. Or, home depot or something.

I am concerned about that spool shaft screw though. The slider is also different from my spare one, or I'd consider drilling it out and replacing the whole assembly. I may still drill it out if I need to, but like i say its now functional.

It may just be freshwater only for now.

And I'm happy that the previous owner tried to maintain it. And a part of me is glad the goofball chose to use dry graphite to lube it. Had they used grease and oil like a normal person they may not have sold it. The other benefit is that dry graphite gets annihilated at the sight of denatured alcohol which i had on hand, so I was able to clean and relube the worm even without disassembling. I just wish they were more careful with the screwdriver.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 05, 2021, 05:58:49 PM
Quote from: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 04:22:02 PM
I thought it seemed weird as well, that's why I was curious about the 600. I can't find schematics that shows the drag stack.

I didn't even try it, just threw it on a shelf but you're are correct it does loosen up.  Something else I will do tonight, 😆

instead of eared on the bottom, to cover the graphite
start w/ CF that is eared or epoxied to spool, so only top surface is functional,
then: keyed, CF, eared, CF, keyed, CF, eared, CF, keyed -- that gives you a 9-stack
which has same total number of metal washers as original shimmed 6-stack,
plus, TWO!!! more FUNCTIONAL drag washers
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 06:09:59 PM
Jason

The PS1305 doesn't come with the worm washer. My Emblez-Z did have one and it was very thin. When you get the screw out of the stem there is a small washer on top of the pawl, very similar to the worm washer.



Philaroman

I took the top eared washer off and fixed the problem but I wonder if I should put both on the bottom or just leave it out.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 05, 2021, 06:45:01 PM
1) I edited the 9-stack idea while you were posting

2) w/ original configuration, you may need 2nd eared washer on bottom (as a shim) to reach max drag,
   OR you may intentionally omit it for light line -- who needs 10+ drag w/ 8# mono?
   could be an intended fine-tuning option that befuddled lesser minds & provided you w/ a bargain ;D
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 05, 2021, 06:50:27 PM
Quote from: thrasher on January 05, 2021, 06:09:59 PM
Jason

The PS1305 doesn't come with the worm washer. My Emblez-Z did have one and it was very thin. When you get the screw out of the stem there is a small washer on top of the pawl, very similar to the worm washer.
I fear we may be talking about 2 different washers. The one I need to find a replacement for is item #22 on the schematic, pictured below. Part #375-8503

I found both that washer and the stripped screw for fairly cheap on the 'bay and I'll likely order them now, but I'm not finding an oscillating slider in case I need to do some aggressive drilling. It appears the only difference is the "arm" on the ss700 slider, but at this point I'm accustomed to being wrong.

This is fun!
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 06, 2021, 12:05:06 AM
Yes, we were indeed talking about two different washers, I gotcha now. I can't find my digital caliper just an old dial one but  I did my best to convert to mm.
The washer from the PS1305, which I think is close to the 600 is .508mm thick and the washer from the SS850 is 1.016mm thick. I didn't measure the inside/outside diameters but I think they matched the inner race measurments. Not sure that helps at all but it helped me out. I drop the washer when I went to measure it and while I was on the ground searching I found the worm washer for the 850 that I didn't think was there. So thank you!!

Pinion looks different than yours but it is 39.75mm in length, yours looks flat on the gear side.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 06, 2021, 12:11:57 AM
I went ahead and put both of them on the bottom and no problems. I'll probably never fish it but I would have been upset if I decided to with how I had it stacked.

Thanks for catching that!!
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 06, 2021, 02:22:21 AM
Happy to be of service. Thanks for measuring for me. The ss600 and the 850 have the same part # for that washer. So that does help.

I do believe the carbon drag upgrade gives these guys substantially more than 10# of drag. It feels like i shouldn't even test it cranked down, I'm not sure the rest of the hardware can handle it. But the point of it all was smoother drag not heavier. I have an LT100. If i need the pulling power i got it.

But you oughta reconsider leaving this one on the shelf. Its a true pleasure to use. Especially casting.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 06, 2021, 01:12:55 PM
Yeah, I'll probably fish it atleast once at the boynton inlet when summer rolls around. It's a little bigger than I was expecting which leads me to my main point.

I was thinking how does such a small reel and a larger reel share the same bearing washer, I believe the pinion is thinner diameter on the 600/750. The 600/750 do share part #375-8503 but the 850 has part #371-2827, the main question is do both part numbers share the same thickness? Double check my numbers though, hate to have you order more parts that you can't use.

These are my first Daiwa reels and it's been a learning experience for sure, not like Penn parts.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 06, 2021, 03:53:33 PM
Quote from: thrasher on January 06, 2021, 01:12:55 PM
Yeah, I'll probably fish it atleast once at the boynton inlet when summer rolls around.
I keep forgetting you're a fellow Floridian. I hear there's a lot of snook down there. That would be a lot of fun on these little reels (in fact that fun is the reason i got into these).
Quote
It's a little bigger than I was expecting which leads me to my main point.

I was thinking how does such a small reel and a larger reel share the same bearing washer, I believe the pinion is thinner diameter on the 600/750. The 600/750 do share part #375-8503 but the 850 has part #371-2827, the main question is do both part numbers share the same thickness? Double check my numbers though, hate to have you order more parts that you can't use.

These are my first Daiwa reels and it's been a learning experience for sure, not like Penn parts.
I was apparently mistaken when I said it's the same part #. You're correct they are different. Thankfully the one i ordered was the part # I pulled from the ss600 schematic. So I think I'll be alright. I tend to misspeak a lot, but I also tend to double check stuff before ordering when the data is available.

Daiwa does tend to reuse parts across sizes. By my understanding a lot of the parts in the ss700 are shared with the ss1300. And my 600 isn't any smaller than my 700. In fact the gearbox is slightly wider, and the spool holds 5yds more line of 4# diameter than the 700.

These are night and day difference from my penns. I've impressed myself with my (knock on wood) success thus far in working on them without my clumsy arthritic and nerve damaged fat fingers screwing anything up. My experience working on reels can still be measured in weeks, i cracked open my first reel in October. I still have a lot to learn. But it's been a lovely distraction thus far.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 06, 2021, 04:41:39 PM
try a Baitrunner w/ "the works" -- that'll keep 'ya distracted  ::)
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on January 06, 2021, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: philaroman on January 06, 2021, 04:41:39 PM
try a Baitrunner w/ "the works" -- that'll keep 'ya distracted  ::)
I've actually seen quite a few older bait runners for sale for remarkably cheap, and have considered getting one. But the commentary I've heard on here has made me steer away from the entire concept. I mean how much work is it to set the drag super light and twist the dang ol' knob when you get a fish on? I fish mostly live bait and I've had no problems with that operation yet. I mean I'm game for a challenge, but discretion is the better part of valor. Or something like that.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 06, 2021, 08:59:39 PM
"twist the dang ol' knob" how quickly & TO WHAT SETTING?
ballparking from 0.5 to 2 lbs., while L/UL fun-fishing -- no problem, BUT
frantically mucking around w/ multiple revolutions of drag-knob to go from 1 to 10+ "mystery setting",
when trophy/dinner is hooked AND it's flesh-slicing braid peeling off...
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 07, 2021, 12:42:49 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on January 06, 2021, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: philaroman on January 06, 2021, 04:41:39 PM
try a Baitrunner w/ "the works" -- that'll keep 'ya distracted  ::)
I've actually seen quite a few older bait runners for sale for remarkably cheap, and have considered getting one. But the commentary I've heard on here has made me steer away from the entire concept. I mean how much work is it to set the drag super light and twist the dang ol' knob when you get a fish on? I fish mostly live bait and I've had no problems with that operation yet. I mean I'm game for a challenge, but discretion is the better part of valor. Or something like that.

For me a baitrunner is more about being able to set the rod down in a hurry to grab another rod. Just click and drop, must quicker than twist, twist, twist and drop. However it is also nice to just turn the handle or flip a switch and you have the drag set precisely how you want it.  I bought my first 4500 in the early 90's(still fish it) and have been hooked on them since. Now working on them is a little more intense, I will give you that. I have a set of the second generation but just started looking into the first year all black ones. I have just been looking on the bay but they are priced to high for me  ;D
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: thrasher on January 07, 2021, 01:01:05 PM
I keep forgetting you're a fellow Floridian. I hear there's a lot of snook down there. That would be a lot of fun on these little reels (in fact that fun is the reason i got into these).

When I stumbled on this thread originally I never knew of a worm oscillation spinning reels but to hear some of you guys talk about them I had to get one. I grabbed the Emblem-z to load with light braid and see if I could blow it up on anything big ;D As a pier rat in the late 80's we would take our bait rods and try to catch all sorts of things with the smallest hook possible. We didn't have sabikis back then and had to tie our own with tiny gold hooks, we would use those sometimes. You ain't lived til you grabbed a snook with a sigma 025 with straight 4lb mono and a gold hook, it was a quick fight but a thrilling one! Man to be a dumb teenager again

Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on January 07, 2021, 06:48:06 PM
Quote from: thrasher on January 07, 2021, 12:42:49 PM
For me a baitrunner is more about being able to set the rod down in a hurry to grab another rod. Just click and drop, must quicker than twist, twist, twist and drop. However it is also nice to just turn the handle or flip a switch and you have the drag set precisely how you want it.  I bought my first 4500 in the early 90's(still fish it) and have been hooked on them since. Now working on them is a little more intense, I will give you that. I have a set of the second generation but just started looking into the first year all black ones. I have just been looking on the bay but they are priced to high for me  ;D

I have a 300 & 450 (each, parts/repair bought cheap) in various stages of restore/upgrade/up-bling,
can offer a few bargain-hunting/frankensteining tips, if you're interested in ole' original 3-digits
they're pretty simple, aside from the secondary drag which can be serviced as a unit...  some of the time, within reason
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 07, 2021, 02:48:25 PM
I dunno if it's appropriate to do so re: forum rules so mods feel free to delete if this is no bueno but...
Anyone looking to get into the older made in Japan daiwa whisker game, this SS750 stuck out as a good deal:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234049468032?hash=item367e6f7680:g:h-wAAOSwk0FgxJ6V
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: oc1 on July 07, 2021, 06:36:35 PM
Whisker sounds so much nicer than egg beater.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on July 07, 2021, 07:19:00 PM
just like, knuckle-buster sounds so much nicer than knuckle-dragger  ;)
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 07, 2021, 08:36:35 PM
Well done Roman. I was stumped and that's rare.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: oc1 on July 07, 2021, 08:56:35 PM
Quote from: philaroman on July 07, 2021, 07:19:00 PM
just like, knuckle-buster sounds so much nicer than knuckle-dragger  ;)

Hey, hey...  I resemble that remark.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on July 08, 2021, 12:24:09 AM
sorry, thought "knuckle-dragger" had more of a prehistoric/antediluvian vibe (fun jab)
apparently it degenerated to plain dumbA$$ -- certainly didn't mean that
just have a few lo-pros for occasional F/W kicks -- maybe I wouldn't like 'em so much,
if I had to maintain them for frequent S/W use AND fine-tune to milk distance
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: oc1 on July 08, 2021, 06:27:23 AM
It's all good fun.

Maintenance requirements should be in the top two or three most important characteristics when evaluating a reel.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 13, 2021, 06:12:44 PM
I just won the bid on an SS1300. And when that arrives I will have more daiwa reels than penn reels. It may be time for a new user name.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 19, 2021, 04:46:03 PM
Got my SS1300 in today. It's a bit rougher looking than I expected, but it's also an older Japanese-made item.

It's got a lot of scratches, some corrosion on some exterior metal bits, and many of the decals appear to have been rubbed off. And the line roller doesn't turn at all. No big deal. Gonna try to crack it open tonight and see what I'm up against.

There's a moderate amount of parts online, so I am optimistic. What gives me the most hesitation is the light scratches on the spool lip. None are deep, and are probably more like scuffs, but this spool might not be gold anymore when I finish.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: PacRat on July 19, 2021, 06:01:57 PM
Those spools can go for $50 when they come up. I wonder how much Daiwa charges for one? The line rolles should have a sealed bearing and is likely just crudded up. Take it apart and clean it up and I bet it frees right up.

-Mike
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 19, 2021, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: PacRat on July 19, 2021, 06:01:57 PM
Those spools can go for $50 when they come up. I wonder how much Daiwa charges for one? The line rolles should have a sealed bearing and is likely just crudded up. Take it apart and clean it up and I bet it frees right up.

-Mike
Yeah I'm optimistic about the line roller coming out just fine with a bit of oil and elbow grease.

I paid less than $52 for the reel shipped, so that makes me a lot more forgiving when it comes to aesthetic concerns.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: foakes on July 19, 2021, 06:41:36 PM
If you can post a photo of your spool and reel — I might have a new spool in one of the Daiwa spool bins.

Can't promise until I can do a match — but it would only be a few bucks, if I have one.

Probably have around 1000 to 1500 to spinner spools — not counting 1000 to 1200 DAM Quick, Penn, ABU/Zebco, and Mitchell— which I will keep for restorations and repairs.

These Daiwas, Shimanos, Ryobis, Shakes, and many others — likely need to go bye-bye, dirt cheap, real soon.

Don't want to store them any longer.

Best, Fred

Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 19, 2021, 08:18:06 PM
Can't say no to that. Let me know if additional pics would help. Sadly there are very few markings left on the spool.

Also attached is the parts diagram.

Bottom 2 pics are from the internet of an intact reel
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: PacRat on July 19, 2021, 11:29:58 PM
Fred, While you are searching Daiwa spools...would you please keep an eye out for this one?
(https://alantani.com/gallery/35/14769_19_07_21_11_24_29_353721501.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/35/14769_19_07_21_11_24_36_353741364.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/35/14769_19_07_21_11_24_48_35375260.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/35/14769_19_07_21_11_24_57_353761721.jpeg)

Thanks
-Mike
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: foakes on July 20, 2021, 12:09:07 AM
Sure, Guys —

Won't be until tomorrow.  Needed to go down to the Valley this afternoon and this evening.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on July 20, 2021, 12:14:04 AM
Jason, take a real close look at that line roller
can't tell scratches from shadows from reflections, in photos
if not smooth -- bigger issue than spool lip, IMO
if not sure, postpone getting spool
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 20, 2021, 01:11:38 AM
Quote from: philaroman on July 20, 2021, 12:14:04 AM
Jason, take a real close look at that line roller
can't tell scratches from shadows from reflections, in photos
if not smooth -- bigger issue than spool lip, IMO
if not sure, postpone getting spool
Good looking out. It was actually cobwebs. God only knows what I'm in for on this one.

Wiped it off and looks to be intact. I believe the modern iterations of this reel have a SiC line roller. This looks like my ss700 roller. Maybe its similar.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on July 20, 2021, 01:47:52 AM
cobwebs are GOOD...  i.e., sat undisturbed for years
wonder if Shimano small SiC roller from early 90's might work -- bail-head looks very similar
though when they copied each other's designs
they might have made a point of changing dimensions  ::)
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 20, 2021, 11:59:55 AM
Turns out the surface of the line roller is just fine. No chips or scratches or scuffs. Its still not rolling freely but I didnt put much effort in under it, by the time I got to that stage of service it was nearing 2am so I had to put a pin in it for now.

There seems to be a common theme for me buying these reels on eBay. Namely the spool shaft screw was stripped (but removable this time), and the previous owner had serviced it not with grease but with a dry graphite lube. It was otherwise in good shape internally other than it was missing the washer from the bottom of worm shaft. So I gotta order or improv that now. By the look of the grooves on the worm retainer (the Y shaped thing below it), it's been missing for a while. It's likely an easy part to lose.

And I noticed a few other differences between this and my modern (non-Japanese-made) model as well. I could be completely off base, but that main gear looks machined not cast. The sideplate is metal not graphite. And the inner rod of the worm shaft is brass while the metal around it appears aluminum.

Pic below wasnt intended to highlight the spool lip, but it sure as heck did. That thing was rough. I took some 1000 grit and 2000 grit sandpaper to it last night. Its a lot smoother if still imperfect, but the lip is no longer gold.

Fred, if you stumble upon a drag cap I'm interested in that as well. Mine appears to be off center. Its the cap itself causing the problem. The stud with threads inside appears bent.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: foakes on July 20, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
I doubt that I would have any of those drag knobs —

Just shipped a 2100 pound load of reels and parts last week —

And am only keeping the DQ, Mitchell, ABU/Zebco Cardinal, ABU, and Penn spinner reels and parts.

Will look for the spools this morning.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: philaroman on July 20, 2021, 04:00:04 PM
are metal frame & sideplate BOTH tapped for reasonably fine thread?
that's an SiC roller & big-boy brass pinion -- correct?
wonder if that's due to bigger size, or if you found the "goldilocks age" for Japan-made

after fully polished, let the spool-lip "heal" away from salt/moisture,
for however long it takes to get to a dull grey -- that's natural AlO2
not as good as anodized, but better than freshly-polished & shiney
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: foakes on July 20, 2021, 07:07:09 PM
Here is a new one, Jason — $10 + $5 shipping.

Some of these still have prices dating to tackle shops from 25 - 35 years ago ranging from $32 to $64.

Here are (3) new ones for the 750, Mike — $10 each + $5 shipping.

Pulling out any spools from the bins that are not DQ, ABU, Cardinal, Mitchell, or Penn spinners.

In just a few minutes —13 bins in the driveway.  Probably another bin of 150 in the other shops that I'll gather up today.

Possibly 75% new — 25% used (+/- 10%j.

Daiwa, Shimano, Ryobi, Okuma, Shakespeare, and many, many older brands.

Metal, graphite, sizes from 500 micros up to 9000's.

Going to just count them up and offer them to the Ohana for 50 to 90 cents apiece as a one lot purchase.

Shipping via actual cost for bulk boxes.  Shipping won't be too bad.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 20, 2021, 07:43:48 PM
Fred, you're awesome. Sending PM.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: foakes on July 20, 2021, 08:01:17 PM
OK, Jason — Done...

A suggestion —

Chuck up your old spool in a drill — smooth the upper lip with 3 grits of Emory Tape — ending with about 400 to 600.

Then finish off with "0000" steel wool.

Wash it off — dry completely.

Then back in the drill chuck again for a final treatment with Nevr-Dull — followed up with a micro-fleece cloth.

It will make a great back up pre-filled with line in your tackle box.

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: JasonGotaProblem on July 21, 2021, 01:32:35 PM
Oh I assure you I had no intention of throwing it away, though I'll admit using a drill to speed up the process hadnt occurred to me.  Do i just keep it on the spool shaft?

A friend and I have been talking about doing some small scale DIY anodizing. This is about the strongest candidate for a test subject I've seen thus far.
I'm a physics nerd. While I may make myself sound foolish on here, I tended to do alright in the lab. Plus my wife is a chemistry teacher, so I have access to a skilled helper (I might become the helper, she's pretty good).

An additional difference between this and my SS700 is that the SS1300's middle metal drag washer is eared, while the one on my 700 is hexagonal. Is there some noteworthy strength difference between the two designs? This might not be the thread for that question.
Title: Re: Whisker SS
Post by: foakes on July 21, 2021, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on July 21, 2021, 01:32:35 PM
Oh I assure you I had no intention of throwing it away, though I'll admit using a drill to speed up the process hadnt occurred to me.  Do i just keep it on the spool shaft?

No, the best way is to use a long bolt with metal and nylon washers and locker nuts.

You want a solid connection to the spool without damaging it or doing the spool shaft any harm.

Drill press works best — but I generally use a hand drill since it is at hand, instead of going to the outer shop — so it is quick, easy, and effective.

Best, Fred