Came from the local tackle shop with a glitch in the gearing it seems.
I had previously procured the SST for this inevitable day and the LHS sideplate is now off.
Is it a rhetorical question to ask whether anyone wants to see the surgery as a tutorial, or is not a $*@# given? ;D
Let's see what little traps Daiwa-san has set for we amateurs!
cheers
Steve
oooh... are we in bronze main territory, or still a few Benjamins away?
drinkin' extra coffee, so there will be extra " $*@# given" ;D
Yeah, show us please. I have a Certate CXH5000LT. How much did the side plate tool cost?
Sorry Guys, I got smashed last couple of weeks!
I posted it up here:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1741107059363700&id=433383760136043
Finally got to open up a '19 Certate. I was NOT surprised to discover that they are neither waterproof, nor substantially more corrosion resistant than any other reel!. They have dropped the Magsealed unitary bearings and gone back to normal bearings with magoil seals on LRB and pinion shaft seal. This one destroyed a couple of teeth on the nylon oscillating gear.
Yes folks, that is salt water 🙁. It was right through, so not sure, but I think it came in through the end plate. There is a "seal" there, but it is just plastic with no grease to seal it. That bail trip mechanism will be an ongoing corrosion issue as it is made out of some type of cast metal and swingin' out in the salt under the rotor with no protection. Magseal plates in the LRB were already a rusty mess, I had to use the Hedgehog puller to extract it and one didn't survive the surgery. I just do what I usually do and pack 'em with CorrosionX and MX6 grease so they have a chance of surviving!
cheers
Steve
Quote from: JK47 on September 23, 2020, 05:00:26 PM
Yeah, show us please. I have a Certate CXH5000LT. How much did the side plate tool cost?
That cost about one "Benjamin" Aust!
This one will do any of the LT series up to and including 4000 size. I am going to measure up a Saltiga this week at the friendly local TS (Lee Longs, Gordonvale Cairns for any locals: TOP place!) and see if I can manufacture an opener. I have seen one on youtube (Profisher UA) made from nylon or similar, may have been 3D printed. I will report back, maybe I can get a CAD file organized!
cheers
Steve
Quote from: philaroman on September 23, 2020, 01:02:56 PM
oooh... are we in bronze main territory, or still a few Benjamins away?
drinkin' extra coffee, so there will be extra " $*@# given" ;D
Main gear is Aluminium alloy of some sort ( I am sure there is some w@nker marketing description for the metal), no bronze in sight, sorry.
Wow, I expected much better from such a pricey reel. >:(
Ok so it's a steaming pile of crap. Will remember for the future. Thank you. I've seen a few pop up used, I'm glad I never pounced.
No but seriously. I did not expect to see aluminum and freaking nylon gearing inside a $300+ reel. I am so very confused and a little bit upset. No wonder you needed a special tool to open it. They clearly had something to hide.
Quote from: ReelClean on October 14, 2020, 08:31:55 AM
Quote from: JK47 on September 23, 2020, 05:00:26 PM
Yeah, show us please. I have a Certate CXH5000LT. How much did the side plate tool cost?
That cost about one "Benjamin" Aust!
This one will do any of the LT series up to and including 4000 size. I am going to measure up a Saltiga this week at the friendly local TS (Lee Longs, Gordonvale Cairns for any locals: TOP place!) and see if I can manufacture an opener. I have seen one on youtube (Profisher UA) made from nylon or similar, may have been 3D printed. I will report back, maybe I can get a CAD file organized!
cheers
Steve
An 3D printer file would be awesome!!
OMG, what a POS :o (well... for 1/2K, it's a POS :( )
can you point to ANYTHING that even remotely begins to contemplate approaching a justification for the price-tag?
Quote from: philaroman on October 14, 2020, 10:53:51 PM
OMG, what a POS :o (well... for 1/2K, it's a POS :( )
can you point to ANYTHING that even remotely begins to contemplate approaching a justification for the price-tag?
My BG has better materials for gears. And it's $100 (well i paid 75 on sale but that's even worse!) And it's a daiwa so it really is a fair apples to apples comparison price wise.
How much do they really think that mag sealing stuff is worth? The more I think about this the grumpier I get.
Quote from: philaroman on October 14, 2020, 10:53:51 PM
OMG, what a POS :o (well... for 1/2K, it's a POS :( )
can you point to ANYTHING that even remotely begins to contemplate approaching a justification for the price-tag?
I have about 6 Certates and I luv 'em, but not one of them is later than 2010 model, some are 2004. I reckon past that they dropped the ball (or more likely the beancounters/marketing got involved in engineering). It's a NICE reel, but not an outstanding reel, but then again neither is a Stella for the stupid $$$ they want for one.
If it were me, I would go a Luvias (of which I have two). Both models are Japan made, but the Luvias I believe is a lot cheaper.
And if you want a bargain in something larger, I just worked on a 10000SW Saragosa. The waterproofing is fantastic with a full perimeter o ring around the body. I opened up that sucker, saw no discolored grease or water ingress, so I just pumped some MX6 grease in and buttoned that puppy up again. If it ain't broke, dont ^%$# with it! ;D LRB was a bit sketchy, but they all are!
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 15, 2020, 02:49:52 AM
Quote from: philaroman on October 14, 2020, 10:53:51 PM
OMG, what a POS :o (well... for 1/2K, it's a POS :( )
can you point to ANYTHING that even remotely begins to contemplate approaching a justification for the price-tag?
My BG has better materials for gears. And it's $100 (well i paid 75 on sale but that's even worse!) And it's a daiwa so it really is a fair apples to apples comparison price wise.
How much do they really think that mag sealing stuff is worth? The more I think about this the grumpier I get.
Mag sealing is just another way of preventing water ingress; it is no better nor worse than using a rubber seal, just different. It is NOT sealed for life despite what the BS Artists in marketing may suggest. They both need regular maintenance to keep the salt out. If it were rubber you would service it every season and pack it with grease; for magseal you service it every season and replenish the oil. Sama sama!
Quote from: JK47 on September 23, 2020, 05:00:26 PM
Yeah, show us please. I have a Certate CXH5000LT. How much did the side plate tool cost?
I spent an hour at Lee Longs TS this morning measuring the sidecovers on several sizes of Saltigas and Certates. There are four different sizes of tool required for the sideplates over the range!
Maybe they should just weld them on so I don't have to worry. Use the Apple marketing model: sorry, we can't fix it, but we can sell you this new (but unimproved) version for a "special" price. They could use the "I"diot marketing model; how about Da"I"wa (tm)?
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 14, 2020, 07:04:34 PM
Ok so it's a steaming pile of crap. Will remember for the future. Thank you. I've seen a few pop up used, I'm glad I never pounced.
No but seriously. I did not expect to see aluminum and freaking nylon gearing inside a $300+ reel. I am so very confused and a little bit upset. No wonder you needed a special tool to open it. They clearly had something to hide.
..and I forgot to mention that the nylon gear is probably the engineered fuse point; I suspect this reel was used in an attempt to winch a GT out from under a bommie! It is the only way that I can see you stripping it, and it may have saved the main gear/pinion gear/body from damage, the gear is only a $3 part.
Quote from: ReelClean on October 15, 2020, 07:44:16 AM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 14, 2020, 07:04:34 PM
Ok so it's a steaming pile of crap. Will remember for the future. Thank you. I've seen a few pop up used, I'm glad I never pounced.
No but seriously. I did not expect to see aluminum and freaking nylon gearing inside a $300+ reel. I am so very confused and a little bit upset. No wonder you needed a special tool to open it. They clearly had something to hide.
..and I forgot to mention that the nylon gear is probably the engineered fuse point; I suspect this reel was used in an attempt to winch a GT out from under a bommie! It is the only way that I can see you stripping it, and it may have saved the main gear/pinion gear/body from damage, the gear is only a $3 part.
So it's a $3 part designed to fail (as opposed to letting another non $3 part fail) but it's behind a plate you need a very special tool to remove? Service trap. This keeps getting worse.
so, what... the plastic oscillation gear is like a sacrificial anode -- it dies, so other better parts don't?
I ain't buyin' it... like Jason said, it's not accessible & most anglers are not as sophisticated as this Forum,
wouldn't notice or care about oscillation disruptions w/ "FISH ON"... just keep crankin' (harder, if anything) until it was too late
The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.
I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
Quote from: nelz on October 15, 2020, 06:11:40 PM
The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.
I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
Have you played with a BG? Like buttered silk for $100. No special tools needed.
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 15, 2020, 06:26:17 PM
Quote from: nelz on October 15, 2020, 06:11:40 PM
The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.
I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
Have you played with a BG? Like buttered silk for $100. No special tools needed.
well, the proper Japanese way to accomplish buttery smoothness USED to be
mostly-SS worm oscillation working straight off the pinion w/ zero main-gear involvement...
not only smoother, but slightly less work(wear?) for the ephemeral alloy main
(plenty shidaiwas like that were offered in the $100-$200 MSRP ballpark)
Quote from: nelz on October 15, 2020, 06:11:40 PM
The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.
I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
The buttery smoothness is in a large part due to the light (and lack of) grease in the body. That silky feel disappears when the salt starts to eat away the maingear and pinion. They are not buttery smooth after I am done, but it is unlikely salt will get to the metal gears.
I have also noticed that the sideplates are ridiculously tight for a light reel, and wonder whether they use preload on the maingear to get it "just right' rather than have to stuff around trying to shim them.
Quote from: philaroman on October 15, 2020, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on October 15, 2020, 06:26:17 PM
Quote from: nelz on October 15, 2020, 06:11:40 PM
The Certates' main selling point has always been that it's supposed to have a buttery smooth retrieve. I was thinking the nylon gear was for furthering that feature.
I've been wanting to pick up a nice older Certate at a bargain price for a long time now, but it just ain't happenin'!
Have you played with a BG? Like buttered silk for $100. No special tools needed.
well, the proper Japanese way to accomplish buttery smoothness USED to be
mostly-SS worm oscillation working straight off the pinion w/ zero main-gear involvement...
not only smoother, but slightly less work(wear?) for the ephemeral alloy main
(plenty shidaiwas like that were offered in the $100-$200 MSRP ballpark)
It doesn't work directly off the main gear, but another cog concentric on the drive shaft. The drive on both the cam and worm drive oscillation is the same, just one is driven off pinion shaft and the other off maingear shaft. I actually prefer the cam drive oscillation for long term wear resistance, the worm and pawl wear over time and you end up with longtitudal play in the pinion shaft (which is already a complaint people have about new Shimano reels, it doesn't get better with use). In the end it probably comes down to the quality of materials and machining as the manufacturers continue their search for every .01c of extra profit.
Nowadays even cheap reels are pretty smooth out of the box. How long they'll stay that way... ???
Anyway, as I recall, the older Certates featured "vibration dampers" in their design. I've never had or handled one, so I can't say how effective that was, but I was sold on the concept, just never did acquire one.
I do however, happen to own a first gen Daiwa Sol which is so smooth and easy turning that the handle sometimes flies out of my hand just from the forward inertia! The thinnest of shims made a world of difference.
I love the monocoque body on these new gen spinners, but they should come with the special tools for servicing. The magseal however is a deal breaker for me.