I got an email into Smoothdrag for what they have, but ill ask here too.
Looking for options for CF. Its current stack is a series of greased BRASS washers (no fiber in between of any kind).
The CF I'm looking for has an ID of 10mm and an OD of 20mm.
The question is what OTHER reels (Penn?) might share this size washer because I need to find some STAINLESS eared and keyed metals to replace the brass or maybe theres a stack from Mystic that would drop in - but mystic doesn't list washers by dimension.
Thank you!
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=4507.0
There is a list of sizes there , maybe # 9 - 10 or 11 will work .
I have yet to fine a good source for ss washes already listed by sizes and styles "key, ear, tongue .
Perhaps a picture of the washers with sizes written under them will help you find them , somebody may recognize the washer from another brand reel .
I checked that list on smoothdrag's site, but I know if you email them they have sizes available that aren't listed on there. Dawn got back to me and said she had a 113 (4/0) CF washer in 0.5mm. I have a Penn HT-100 one here and it measures 10.3mm x 20.3mm and she says she has them, but they aren't on the list. This happened once before with an okuma. Maybe they're just cutting them to size?
If all else doesn't come through I can punch them in that size in any thickness.
Keith
Thank you Keith. Dawn indicated she has something that should work, but im waiting on details in a follow-up today. Both the size of the washer and the reel that they go in aren't on the lists on smoothdrag's site, but im grateful if I can get them from anywhere. I don't have the punches or jigs to make drag washers at all, let alone to center them perfectly. I'm going to also order some Metals from a 113 (4/0) and file down the OD edges as necessary to make them fit.
That's at least my plan for now. I will definitely take you up on your offer if any of this falls through.
Thank you!
The Wiskers
I received 4 beautiful custom punched 10mm x 20mm x 1mm CF drag disks from Keith (handi2) yesterday in the mail and thanked him VERY much! He was unable to identify any Abu or Penn keyed or eared washers that would be a direct fit for this Dohzuki reel.
My research indicates that the keyed metals from a Penn 113 (4/0) would be 0.2mm larger on the radial ID and 0.5mm wider on the flat ID and both keyed and eared would 0.2mm larger on the OD. If I hand filed each of the stainless washers down to fit inside the main gear would the space in the ID of the metals cause damage to the gear sleeve?
Second question, how bad is it to use the original brass washers that are the right size with the CF drag disks?
TYIA
I'd use the brass ones as they will tightly to the sleeve- you are sure to wear something if the ID of the keys is loose, especially if the sleeve is brass and you use SS keyed washers (think about how a handle can round the other end of the sleeve). You're gonna grease the carbontex anyway, so I wouldn't worry about corrosion on the brass washers. Actually, lap them on a piece of 1000 / 1500 sandpaper, and they will be smooth as butta with the new drag fiber washers and Cal's grease. My 0.02.
John
You should not have a problem with brass washers . Believe it or not a lot of drag washers are brass with chrome plating .
As Joe states.....a bizillion fish, and very large ones, caught by Penn's alone, with brass washers- prior to carbon drags.
It also occurred that you might have issues replacing the sleeve part (availability) if it gets damaged.
Thanks everyone, Ill install the greased CF with the brass washers. What Thorhammer said is true - there are no replacement parts for this reel.
The original drag stack was literally a full stack of greased brass washers - NO drag material between them. By "lapping" you mean rubbing them against one another with sandpaper in-between?
lay the paper (I use wet dry sand paper) on a flat surface- piece of glass if you have one- and rub both sides of the washer on it until shiny and smooth. You may need to thin them some in any case if the carbontex adds too much height to the stack where it rubs in the gear well, or adjust with wavy washer or spacer height.
my half-informed brain says:
lapping compound is for smoothness beyond 2000-grit paper, and jewelers rouge is beyond that
please correct me if I'm wrong
I usually start with 800 grit wet/dry only if the washer isn't quite flat (high spots). Then 1000 grit and 1500 grit wet/dry. I finish with 3M Trizact 3000 and 5000, and it doesn't take much with the trizact to give it a nice shine. I never try to go to finer grits with paste or jewelers rouge.
Trizact is kind of pricey (about 8 bucks a 3x6 sheet) but it lasts longer than wet/dry.
Quote from: williewiskers on February 08, 2021, 09:08:55 PM
I got an email into Smoothdrag for what they have, but ill ask here too.
Looking for options for CF. Its current stack is a series of greased BRASS washers (no fiber in between of any kind).
The CF I'm looking for has an ID of 10mm and an OD of 20mm.
The question is what OTHER reels (Penn?) might share this size washer because I need to find some STAINLESS eared and keyed metals to replace the brass or maybe theres a stack from Mystic that would drop in - but mystic doesn't list washers by dimension.
Thank you!
I think you already decided to stick with the brass washers, but I just happened to find the notes I took when I had a Kastking Spartacus open:
CF Drag washer: 10 x 20 x 1.0
Slotted Washer: 25.8 x Slot(6.6 x 8.07)
Eared Washer: 25.9 x 13.11 (Ears 28.53)
;D I flatten washers with 320 , Any and all additional lapping / polishing is done by the fishes !!!
Quote from: SteveL on March 02, 2021, 07:27:01 PM
Quote from: williewiskers on February 08, 2021, 09:08:55 PM
I got an email into Smoothdrag for what they have, but ill ask here too.
Looking for options for CF. Its current stack is a series of greased BRASS washers (no fiber in between of any kind).
The CF I'm looking for has an ID of 10mm and an OD of 20mm.
The question is what OTHER reels (Penn?) might share this size washer because I need to find some STAINLESS eared and keyed metals to replace the brass or maybe theres a stack from Mystic that would drop in - but mystic doesn't list washers by dimension.
Thank you!
I think you already decided to stick with the brass washers, but I just happened to find the notes I took when I had a Kastking Spartacus open:
CF Drag washer: 10 x 20 x 1.0
Slotted Washer: 25.8 x Slot(6.6 x 8.07)
Eared Washer: 25.9 x 13.11 (Ears 28.53)
Is it not weird that the metals are so much larger than the CF washers?
I finally got to fully servicing this reel and fitting in the new drags graciously hand punched by Keith (handi2). It took me a solid night after putting the kids to bed to clean all the old cosmoline grease out from everywhere, clean and Reel-X the bearings, Cal's grease everything and reassemble. I was able to use the original brass metal drag washers and (4) of Keith's 1mm CF drag washers with no modifications to anything else. The new stack no longer fit entirely inside the main gear, but this appears to affect nothing!
Nothing complicated about this upgrade other than all the extra moving parts for the double eccentric, leveline bar actuator cam and idler gear train for the leveline. I decide against adding any lubrication to the line counter mechanism as it was plastic and bone dry. I only lubed the mechanism for the push-to-reset button with some Reel-X as there was some scratch marks on the plastic from a lifetime of the button being pushed.
The upgraded drag stack went in like this
CF - Eared - CF - Keyed - CF - Eared - CF - Keyed - Spring washer - Flat washer - Open side of roller bearing
The last eared washer sits flush with the top of the main gear and the last CF and Keyed washer stack outside the gear on the sleeve.
Thanks to everyone whom helped with this! This is going to be my goto day charter boat reel as it has a tall spool, fast line retrieve, spool line counter, double eccentrics AND a leveline bar!
The Wiskers
For anyone else, as well as myself, below is the line capacity, gear ratio and weight of the Olympic Dohzuki DS-3. I'm putting it here because it very hard info to come by and I already lost it once.
Gear ratio 3.29 : 1
Line Capacity 435yds of 25lb. test mono line (important for proper operation of the line counter or approximating calibration capacities for other line diameters)
Weight 30.4oz.
The full circumference of the maximum-laided radius on the spool is approximately 10in. (measured with a cloth tape). Some simple math gives us a line retrieve of 2.75' per handle rotation at a very full spool, empirically. HOWEVER the line counter increments EXACTLY 2 UNITS PER HANDLE ROTATION. This means 3 things; (1) full design capacity is visibly less than a "full spool"; (2) Line height on the spool is very relevant to accuracy of the line counter and you are going to have to calibrate your capacity to match the line counter if you want it to be accurate off the top; (3) the line counter counts in FEET
The Wiskers
Final (?) follow-up with respect to line capacity and accuracy of the integrated line counter.
Shown in the picture below is the capacity that makes the counter accurate to within 1' at 100' line out - it is exactly 25% less than the physical max capacity of the spool. I confirmed my original hypothesis by filing the spool completely using both the built in counter and my clamp on one. At completely full spool the clamp-on measured 100' and the built in only 975' (counter counts down in that direction). The counter is LITERALLY calibrated for the spool filled to 75% max capacity! WHY?! Whatever, it's more than enough for its purpose. I lost 808' of random 100# braid on the bottom.
I ended up with 415yds total to get the counter accurate, here is the breakdown.
- 3yd 20# (0.45mm dia) on the bottom
- 269yds leftover .50mm PE braid (labeled 100# test)
- 143yds 25# (0.48mm dia) mono on top
The reel was advertised as being accurate at "435yds of 25# mono". I assumed a standard mono diameter of 0.48mm was inferred. Calculating the error caused by 62% of the spool being braid that was 4% larger than specified (0.50mm vs 0.48mm) means my adjusted "25# mono only" capacity I ended with would be 423yds.
The calibration was within 12yds of the box specification or 97% accurate. Pretty damn good IMO and well within the permissible standard deviation of the accuracy of the tools being used to make the measurements. I am sure I could have added those 12yds with no ill effect, but I didnt do all this math until after I had calibrated the counter and cut the line. Maybe Ill put a leader on it, lol
Sidenote: the line feeds UNDER the leveline bar, not over it like on a Penn 350m.
The Wiskers
Have you considered going with metered braid as a visual "backup" to the line counter?
Depending on the wear over the years with the line counter's gears, deviations can inherently be introduced and affect what line is being counted, although a delta of 3% sounds it has held up well.
The delta of 3% is due to me not caring to play with adding / removing line any longer (its super annoying). The adjustment for any sort of wear would be the same as adjustment for calibration - removing or adding line to change the diameter of the filled spool. Height of line on the spool is the only factor in accuracy of a line counter which is tied to the rotation of the spool itself. The problem with braid is some charter boats dont allow it. I do have some braid on the bottom to fill the spool (and give me some space if I accidentally hook something that runs). But this is a yoyo setup - it goes up and down. The rod its on is a stiff vintage Conolon boat rod, thus he mono is appropriate. Also the reel isnt nearly as "buff" as my 49L, so it cant be pushed to the level that would necessitate braid. This is definitely one of those, "use it as its intended", reels.
As far as the 3% goes, I went 97% of the way to the fishes door so the least he can do is open his mouth and fip a fin once or twice to close the gap!
Your drag order is wrong - the first cf washer is doing nothing.
Try CF - keyed - cf - eared - cf - keyed - cf - eared (if the final eared washer is above the stack try bending the ears down to engage with the slots - or just keep the last cf and eared washers for spares ;). Just wondering why you didn't use 25mm (or 25.8mm) od cf washers - that would be closer to the od of the metal washers?
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on May 20, 2021, 09:52:49 AM
Your drag order is wrong - the first cf washer is doing nothing.
Try CF - keyed - cf - eared - cf - keyed - cf - eared (if the final eared washer is above the stack try bending the ears down to engage with the slots - or just keep the last cf and eared washers for spares ;). Just wondering why you didn't use 25mm (or 25.8mm) od cf washers - that would be closer to the od of the metal washers?
Tiddlerbasher,
I realized that the order of the drag washers was opposite of what is customary when I did it. I didnt realize that negated the first drag washer, but now I see it does. However there is still no other way to do it and I loose nothing. I needed the order the way it was for the last eared washer to land flush with the top of the gear - allowing a 4th CF layer to fit on top with a keyed washer. It was necessary to get all 4 in there (with an extra metal on top) in order to take up excess slack in the sleeve heading toward the handle
There are still 3 functioning CF drag washers, even though the bottom one does nothing. Consider it a spacer.
The Wiskers