With my pending retirement, the boss is letting ;) me take a long range west coast trip. I'm looking at a 5-8 day trip chasing whatever is biting in the Mexican waters. I already have the usual arsenal of Penn reels, 140 squidders, 500-505-501-P21XN Jigmasters, 112H, 113H and HLW, 114H and HLW, and Baja Special, with rods I like.
Buuuuuttttt ;D since this will be my retirement gift ;) I might as well get another rod and reel. I would like another Penn, I'm not really open to other brands.
This is where I need the advice in filling the line up. I have been looking at the Fathom 25NLD2 with an Okuma PCH 741XXH with 100 lb braid and a top shot for pitching irons and yo-yo irons for yellowtail and tuna. On a long range I would use the boat's rigs for trolling and kites.
Should I go bigger with the 30LD2 or the 40LD2 and corresponding rod? Or would the 25NLD2 fill the need? After the trip it would be used for shorter overnight and 3 day trips.
For the 5-8 day trip I was thinking of the following:
20-25 lb= P21XN
25-30 lb= 501 or 112H
30-40 lb= 113H or Baja Special
50-60 lb= 25 NLD2
80-100 lb= 114 H
Am I totally off base? As this is new to me, I am open to all suggestions....Bill
Bill I'm still very new to this SD fishing but I think for a trip that long you might want a few more 2 speed reels.
I suggest you get a 40nld2 paired with the PCH rod. The 40nld2 can be used a bunch of different ways from big baits, dropper loop, flat falls and yo yo jigs!
I'm sure someone else will chime in tho....
Bill, PJ is right. Your 80-100 lb. outfit should definitely be a 2-speed.
Bill - Firstly - Congratulations on your pending retirement! Hopefully at some point we will both be on the same trip it would be fun to share the rail! And have fun on that Long Range - there is nothing like it in the world. Anyhow, I will give you my best answer to your question, but I am sure there will be others that are wiser and more experienced than I that will also contribute. Firstly - DEFINITELY a two speed!. Secondly, size: I really think your choice of a 25NLD is a good one, and here is where I am coming from: I have a 25NLD2 Torque (basically what you are looking at with your Fathom) and an Avet JX6/3 (I know, you want to stick with Penn, that is fine) but they are two of the "most used" modern reels I have and they are both roughly in the same size range. Since in the long run you are thinking you will be using this as more of an overnight/3 day type reel, I really think that 25 will give you more versatility than something larger (and yes, on a 6-8 day, that larger reel might come in handy, but I don't think that is your long term plan?). Also, on the line choice - personally I think 100# braid is going a little bit big - I have 65# on mine, and honestly you can throw whatever size topshot you want on there for abrasion resistance, but you will get a little more capacity (my 25 has just about 400 yards of 65# braid). There is not a Yellowtail in existence that will best that rig.
I like pretty much every one of your choices, you have put a lot of thought into it. And I always take my hotrodded 113H narrow right in that 30/40 range where you have your Baja Special and have always done well with it. If you get into some flat fall action, that 114H may fill the bill, there is certainly no fish that will blow it up it's just a question of how hard you are going to work :D. So...
Getting a bigger two speed, if you see yourself doing more "long" trips would be worth it, but I think you will get more use in the long haul out of the 25. Having a dedicated 100# 2 Speed outfit IF you see yourself doing a lot of trips of this nature would be pretty much mandatory, and I love my Boss approved VISX20/United Composites Viper combo, but again, most of the time the outfit in my hand is one of the lighter ones, so my thoughts are more on what you will get the most use out of - but only you know what the future holds. Just my $.02 from the cheap seats! - john
Definitely need a 2 speed, fathoms will fit the bill. Keep in mind to that those big bluefin are always a possibility so if you can swing it an international might be something to consider. You could always rent or borrow something too
As far as trip length an 8-10 will give you many more opportunities and a bigger variety of fish to catch. With so much of the baja coast and islands closed or by permit only shorter trips are pretty limited on where they can fish.
Congratulations on your retirement! Hope to see you up here to catch some cods!
I use 25NLD2 for 30-40# and 40NLD2 for 50-60#, can push latter to 80#. Smooth, versatile & affordable (esp. used) so get both! If limited to one, the boat should have loaners covering the other. 8-d obviously gives you more fishing options. Good luck!
for this level of fishing, i would recommend two speed reels for all line weights. also, not a fan of the fathoms. not at all. i know the torques are so much more expensive, but i would recommend those.
Never fished out there yet. I have to say based on playing around with a couple of Torque & Fathom 25N 2speeds I agree with others it's a 30 - 40 rig. Mainly because of it's line capacity. Now here with my river fishing not needing a lot line I would feel well armed fishing the Fathom or Torque 25N at the level you stated.
Please keep in mind The Fathom versions while fantastic reels have a little less output when compared to their Torque counterpart. Rigidity of the Torque frame vs the Fathoms is one reason why... Jeff
Thank you for the input everyone....looks like I will have to up the game to 2 reels......Alan would you mind expanding on why the Fathom doesn't rate very well? Bill
when i set the drag on the reel and look at strike and full settings, i want 30% at strike and 50% at full, with a nice smooth easy progression as you push the lever forward. with the fathom, you really have to muscle the lever forward and you still don't get that much drag going from strike to full. i don't know what it is about the fathom, but it does not give you the same range as the torque.
Thank you Boss Man.....
Just a random thought:
I know this is a site mostly about reels.But, what about borrowing the 2-speed reels and taking the money you'd spend on them and extending your trip to a 10-11 day trip? the potential destinations and the time spent fishing would be greatly enhanced. And the story you come back with has the chance to be even more awesome!
Like I said ...just a thought. Im thinking of hawking a lot of gear I've collected and taking more fishing trips. I need less gear and more time on the water. I hit 70 last month and I need to cram more memory moments into the time I have left.
Funhog has a point. It's always great to fish your own stuff, but pretty much any reputable operation is going to have loaner/rental gear for a modest fee/line charge. Also it can be fun to fish a "sponsored" trip where there are giveaways and factory loaner stuff to try out as part of the trip, most of the manufacturers have them throughout the year. - john
I've been doing 2 10 days in the fall the past few years. I use and like the Fathom 25nld2 for 40#. It's too small for 50-60#. To fill that slot go with a 40nld2 w/80# spectra topped with whatever is appropriate.
I use 2-speeds for 30# on up on all my trips of overnight or longer. You see a lot of Fathoms as they have a good price performance ratio. On a 8-10 day trip, unless you run into some big BFT, 30-40# is the sweet spot. I've had multiple 10 days where that's all that was needed for bait. I do use 50# for Wahoo bombs/YoYoing.
20# Fathom 12
25# Avet MXJ
30# Accurate DX2-400 and Avet SX Raptor
40# Fathom 25nld2 and Avet JX 6/3
50# Avet JX Raptor and Saltiga 40ld2 plus 2x TranX 500 hg
60# Avet HX Raptor and Mak 15T
80# Mak 16 SEa
100# Mak 20 SEa
I do use the 20-25 rigs, not all fish are big on a 10 day!
Bill, don't hate me....
30 bait - Torque 15N
40 bait - Torque 25N
50 bait - Torque 30
60 jig - Torque 40N
60 bait - 12 VISX
80 bait - 16 VISX
100 bait - 20 VISX
130 bait - 50 VISX
It's what's so great about this place. We can dislike a reel or disagree without being disagreeable ;)
Great input and advice guys.
Ok so I have a game plan forming in my beer soaked brain.....I would love a Torque but don't think I can justify the price at this time, the flaws in the Fathom don't seem to be fatal, a set back yes but not fatal, I think the 2 speed is more important than the limited drag.....maybe Penn figured it out by now.
The 25NLD2 is top of the list and a 40LD2 is there also.....wondering if Charkbait would provide a deal on two rigs 🤔too bad the SOA trip is not happening this year it would be nice to try all the different gear.
So time to rethink my line up.....as the Terminator said "Ill be back.....". 😎
Bill
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on February 21, 2021, 09:02:34 PM
.... The 25NLD2 is top of the list and a 40LD2 is there also.....wondering if Charkbait would provide a deal on two rigs 🤔too bad the SOA trip is not happening this year it would be nice to try all the different gear....
Tell Mark " Jeff From Kansas " said, your worthy & he should give you great deal. That will at least make him smile & maybe soften him up a bit :D
Bill,
First you should look at the type of trip your looking to do. A 5-6 day trip will in most part be very different from a 7-8 day. Now a 5-6 dayer will most likely head to the Lupe (Gaudalupe Island) if the boat has permits where mid sized YFT are found along with yellowtail and sometimes wahoo. At he Lupe it is beat the shark type of fishing meaning the gray suites will wait by sportfishers looking for the dinner bell to ring, yep your hooked fish close to the boat to eat it. Larger tackle is need here. IMO a minimum of 40 lb test toppers to around 80 lb is what I would take.
A 7-8 day trip are what I call a verity type trip, meaning usually schoolie sized tuna both YFT and BFT, yellowtail, wahoo, dorado and more will be on the list of likely catches. On these trips a wider range of tackle is needed anywhere from 25-30 lb to 80 lb is what I would like to have. On these trips 40 lb is what will be used the most and I like to have a backup in this line class. So, the 25nld2 fits great here with 60-65 braid backing you should get around 300 yards with a 25 yard topper or more. The Baja setup with the same 60-65 lb braid backing and a 40 lb topper as a backup so your golden at 40 lb. You may want to extend the handle arm on the Baja Special to it's longer setting for better cranking power.
Now a 25-30 lb setup will be used for kelp paddy fishing, dorado and yellowtail for the most part and to make bait if needed. Is a two speed needed here? Not really IMO but if you hook into something on the larger size it is nice to have.
20-25 lb test? Well on these trips I'd leave it at home. Why? Smaller game is not the target and if the boat does stop on fish that aren't willing to bite most likely they will move quickly looking for willing biters. Thinking again I may bring it just in case.
Now a 50-60 lb setup I would not leave the dock without one, yes a two speeded reel is the way to go. IMO the fathom 40nld2 works fine here. Do you really need to go from 30% at strike to 50% at full? I know Alan likes that and that's cool but ask captains of sportfishing boats if they think it is good to go with that much drag at the end of a fight where pulled or straitened hooks can happen. Everyone can fish how they like but for me I will not push a reel to 50% of the lines breaking strength even at the Lupe with the beat the shark issue.
Where your most lacking is in your 80-100 lb setup. A Penn VISX 16 is what you may want to look at, since you said you like Penn. For me I'd go with a Okuma Sea 16 because I like their gearing a bit better for this line test. But, how often will you use a setup like this? If not much get a loaner setup from the boat, rent from the landing or borrow one if you can. Most boats that do trips like this have fine loaner tackle or the landings have good rentals when going with this size of gear. This will save you a lot if you don't plan on doing many trips like this. With that money saved you could add a day or three to your trip if you wanted without coming out of pocket for more.
Jeff, please dont wait on me....if you already have a buyer ....Bill
SoCalAngler summed it up perfectly and take to heart... the last sentence. There's nothing better than fishing relaxed, Knowing you have plenty of time to find that epic bite or overcome a few bad knots, lost fish, or an off day. Time is on your side and you may have such an epic trip that you plug the freezer!who knows?!I don't have any two speeds, but like you I have a lot of built up Penn's ready to go. I live in Dana Point and I believe that's on your way down to San Diego from Crestline. You're welcome to borrow any of them as backups if you decide to go longer. I've never been on a fishing trip that was too long, but I've been on plenty that I wish were a couple of days longer.
Quote from: funhog on February 20, 2021, 11:56:53 PM
Just a random thought:
I know this is a site mostly about reels.But, what about borrowing the 2-speed reels and taking the money you'd spend on them and extending your trip to a 10-11 day trip? the potential destinations and the time spent fishing would be greatly enhanced. And the story you come back with has the chance to be even more awesome!
Like I said ...just a thought. Im thinking of hawking a lot of gear I've collected and taking more fishing trips. I need less gear and more time on the water. I hit 70 last month and I need to cram more memory moments into the time I have left.
funhog, that's thinking outside the box!
I agree with your assessment about selling some of my gear and doing more fishing... Hope you have many more days on the water!!
I have a Fathom ld2 in 40 size, I like it a lot but can't speak to it's abilities at the margins of it's performance envelope... Kinda fond of my fathom 25n star drag too, though the same comment applies.
Hope you have a great trip, Bill B!
Quote from: alantani on February 21, 2021, 05:55:41 PM
Bill, don't hate me....
30 bait - Torque 15N
40 bait - Torque 25N
50 bait - Torque 30
60 jig - Torque 40N
60 bait - 12 VISX
80 bait - 16 VISX
100 bait - 20 VISX
130 bait - 50 VISX
Alan in a chance can you post a pic of a Mak10 and 12visx, I think you said 12visx is similar to mak15 but bit more boxy.
btw, where are the Makairas on that list?
this my personal gear. i have four mak 8's, four mak 10's, a mak 16, 20 and 50 as loaners. great reelsl!
You can't hide money :)
My loaners are 65 LB's on Ugly Sticks. That is, if I ever took anyone fishing :) :) : )
Quote from: steelfish on April 09, 2021, 06:11:16 PM
Quote from: alantani on February 21, 2021, 05:55:41 PM
Bill, don't hate me....
30 bait - Torque 15N
40 bait - Torque 25N
50 bait - Torque 30
60 jig - Torque 40N
60 bait - 12 VISX
80 bait - 16 VISX
100 bait - 20 VISX
130 bait - 50 VISX
Alan in a chance can you post a pic of a Mak10 and 12visx, I think you said 12visx is similar to mak15 but bit more boxy.
btw, where are the Makairas on that list?
12VISX is a 4/0 sized reel. A bit more capacity than the Mak 15 in either of its versions... Jeff
Quote from: alantani on April 09, 2021, 07:24:19 PM
this my personal gear. i have four mak 8's, four mak 10's, a mak 16, 20 and 50 as loaners. great reelsl!
yay!!
(https://alantani.com/gallery/35/3592_07_05_21_7_20_33_350421376.jpeg)
dont you want to loan me a mak10 for 5 seasons? just as a loaner ;D ;D
@ Jeff, thanks buddy, well seem as a big reel, would like to find something as the mak15 SEA but bit smaller, mak10 might be the ticket or a torque 25n but Im not ready to spend another $500 on a reel right now :P
Alex, I'm really liking the Avet Raptors. They are a simple design. Parts easily obtained & they just keep working.
If I understand your area & lived there I would have 1 Avet EX 30, 3 or more Baja / US113's, couple of spinners, you say your search is for a smaller reel 3/0 size ? Im at some point going to give a Valiant 500N a try. They have been out long enough for any issues to show... Jeff
Alex, I would also recommend The Accurate, in narrow Boss 4-500 series. Great working man reels.
Every working gals friend too.💁🏻♀️. Americans supposedly made too.🧜♀️
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 08, 2021, 07:17:20 PM
Alex, I'm really liking the Avet Raptors. They are a simple design. Parts easily obtained & they just keep working.
If I understand your area & lived there I would have 1 Avet EX 30, 3 or more Baja / US113's, couple of spinners, you say your search is for a smaller reel 3/0 size ? Im at some point going to give a Valiant 500N a try. They have been out long enough for any issues to show... Jeff
I have seen those new valiant reels and looks and feel pretty good, I friend of mine have a valiant 400 that I had serviced few times and looks like a fun toy to play with it, but a 500N might be better of course.
I already have two nice spinners but I NEED to take them more to the water, a van staal VS275 and quantum Cabo 60PT, both need a new spinning rod to shine, thats mostly the reason I dont use them that much on a boat.
I recently had in my hands an Avet JX raptor and I know what you mean, they are great powerfull reels, I actually serviced a set of raptors HX, JX and SX and all of them were great, they dont suffer from the pinion bearing damage as their Non-raptor brothers.
for non-special reason Im attracted to those Seigler reels, I might get one of those if I have the oportunitt$$y but worried about parts availability for the future.
the reality is what I really need is TIME to actually use my current reels. ;D ;D
Alex, regarding my advice please keep in mind I've never fished there. However I dont know if you felt the same as I did when opening up my friends Valiant 600. I didnt understand how they would last. But they have & apparently very well over the time they have been out.
The Valiant 500 can save 4 - 6 oz. in weight when compared to others of the same capacity. Over a day or two that amount of weight could be a big thing for some. If I fished every day like I had been I'd have one now ....
for now just a dream reel ... Jeff
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 10, 2021, 08:03:18 PM
However I dont know if you felt the same as I did when opening up my friends Valiant 600. I didnt understand how they would last. ..
I know what you mean, they feel kind of fragile compared to avet raptors or similar reels
Quote from: Rivverrat on May 10, 2021, 08:03:18 PM
..
for now just a dream reel ... Jeff
nothing wrong with that, my dream reel change every year so, I better keep using the ones I have.
I remember when I wanted an Andros 12sn and now they are discontinued, currently I find the new fathoms for slowpitch 15XNLD2 attractive but from my previous experience with the fathom leverdrag 40LD2 Im reluctant to try them but I would try the fathom 8XNSD and the 15SD in a heartbeat