Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Daiwa Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Justus on March 15, 2021, 01:39:03 PM



Title: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on March 15, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
Hello guys, i've a problem which belongs to my Daiwa ballistic LT .
Iam not that familiar with daiwa reels and have problems with centering the magnet washer which is above the anti reverse clutch.
For me its impossible to place the washer in the right place that the anti reverse clutch dont rub against it.

When iam turning the handle without the metal washer everything is smooth but when i place the metal washer over the clutch they are rubbing against them and the smoothness is gone.

Are there any tips or tools you guys use to center the washer?

Thanks for helping ! :)


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on March 15, 2021, 01:42:39 PM
Ups, sorry i've posted it in the wrong category.
Maybe someone could move it in the right category for spinners.

Thanks.


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: ReelClean on March 16, 2021, 12:17:37 AM
Hello guys, i've a problem which belongs to my Daiwa ballistic LT .
Iam not that familiar with daiwa reels and have problems with centering the magnet washer which is above the anti reverse clutch.
For me its impossible to place the washer in the right place that the anti reverse clutch dont rub against it.

When iam turning the handle without the metal washer everything is smooth but when i place the metal washer over the clutch they are rubbing against them and the smoothness is gone.

Are there any tips or tools you guys use to center the washer?

Thanks for helping ! :)

It will be like that until the magoil is replenished, then it centres itself.  Without the magoil the steel AR sleeve will attach itself to the magnet in a single spot every time.  Do a search on my posts and you will find some pics on replenishment. https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=11517.msg126437#msg126437
cheers
Steve


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: handi2 on March 16, 2021, 05:10:05 PM
Also...

The reel will be totally different once you put the rotor on. Donít reel it with the rotor off.

Keith


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: ReelClean on March 17, 2021, 10:50:09 AM
Also...

The reel will be totally different once you put the rotor on. Donít reel it with the rotor off.

Keith
True Keith, but IIRC the ring magnet "floats" in it's slot in the plate slightly, so will move and touch the AR sleeve intermittently, and thus the drag.  Can't remember for sure because I never refit the rotor before replenishing the fluid  ???
cheers
Steve


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on March 17, 2021, 02:37:27 PM
Also...

The reel will be totally different once you put the rotor on. Donít reel it with the rotor off.

Keith

Makes sense, thanks!

So i've done it the same as u did in your video.

Cleaned everything up, reassembled and refilled with fero magnetic oil.

But nothing changed, it's really hard to move the pinion as it moves when you reel in.

What have i done wrong?



Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: ReelClean on March 18, 2021, 08:28:52 AM
Does the AR work properly?  How is it with the rotor in place and the nut nipped up? You can remove the rotor again by putting backpressure on the handle against the AR clutch (assuming the AR is working correctly) without disturbing your magseal.


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on March 18, 2021, 06:50:10 PM
I've made two videos.

In the first - with fero magnetic oil, it's really hard to turn the handle.

In the second - without fero magnetic oil - iam using the rotor backside as an center tool, turning the handle is much smoother and easier.

I've talked to an Daiwa Service Center Mechanic, he told me that they are using different center tools to center the magnetic plate around the spacing sleeve.

I dont know if thats true or not, but i know that my reel feels much smoother without magnetic oil.

So there has do be an mistake, which i made, because u guys and especially Steve in this case, serviced a decent amount of reels with your method without this problem, so again hopefully you guys have an idea what i've done wrong.

Thanks. :)


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on March 18, 2021, 06:52:06 PM
Hm at the moment it's not possible for me to upload a video.

The Anti Reverse is working.


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: ReelClean on March 19, 2021, 04:15:34 AM
I've made two videos.

In the first - with fero magnetic oil, it's really hard to turn the handle.

In the second - without fero magnetic oil - iam using the rotor backside as an center tool, turning the handle is much smoother and easier.

I've talked to an Daiwa Service Center Mechanic, he told me that they are using different center tools to center the magnetic plate around the spacing sleeve.

I dont know if thats true or not, but i know that my reel feels much smoother without magnetic oil.

So there has do be an mistake, which i made, because u guys and especially Steve in this case, serviced a decent amount of reels with your method without this problem, so again hopefully you guys have an idea what i've done wrong.

Thanks. :)


Hmmm, unless I am servicing a completely different style of magsealed reel from US Daiwas, there is (AFAIK) no "centering tool".  The AR sleeve "floats" in the AR clutch (it has to when you are winding forward, otherwise it would drag) and relies on the oil and the back moulding of the rotor (when tightened down correctly) to set all the clearances required to work.  There is no leeway on that top plate, it locates with the three screws and has whatever tolerance is designed in, ie the is no adjustment available except for the movement in the AR sleeve/magnet gap. If the AR works in the correct sense then it is not back to front (I don't think it fits ar$e about anyway}.  The only other dramas I can think of refitting the AR clutch bearing is that in some reels it can be put in a segment or two out of "clocking" and either drag or not work.  There is sometimes a tag or slot that has to go in the corresponding slot/pin to work correctly.
Just rereading your post, when you say that with oil only it is "really hard" to turn, are we talking slightly, moderately, or "gotta use two hands" hard?  Replenished without the rotor, you can feel a slight drag when winding and if you spin the handle it will stop fairly quickly, but when the rotor is installed you get the benefit of inertia and the handle spins longer because everything is torqued to where it should be and clearances are set.  The only other thing I could think of would be a pinion gear/bearing/magplate shim/spacer in the wrong spot?  The o-ring  not displaced?


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on March 19, 2021, 11:06:34 AM
I've made two videos.

In the first - with fero magnetic oil, it's really hard to turn the handle.

In the second - without fero magnetic oil - iam using the rotor backside as an center tool, turning the handle is much smoother and easier.

I've talked to an Daiwa Service Center Mechanic, he told me that they are using different center tools to center the magnetic plate around the spacing sleeve.

I dont know if thats true or not, but i know that my reel feels much smoother without magnetic oil.

So there has do be an mistake, which i made, because u guys and especially Steve in this case, serviced a decent amount of reels with your method without this problem, so again hopefully you guys have an idea what i've done wrong.

Thanks. :)


Hmmm, unless I am servicing a completely different style of magsealed reel from US Daiwas, there is (AFAIK) no "centering tool".  The AR sleeve "floats" in the AR clutch (it has to when you are winding forward, otherwise it would drag) and relies on the oil and the back moulding of the rotor (when tightened down correctly) to set all the clearances required to work.  There is no leeway on that top plate, it locates with the three screws and has whatever tolerance is designed in, ie the is no adjustment available except for the movement in the AR sleeve/magnet gap. If the AR works in the correct sense then it is not back to front (I don't think it fits ar$e about anyway}.  The only other dramas I can think of refitting the AR clutch bearing is that in some reels it can be put in a segment or two out of "clocking" and either drag or not work.  There is sometimes a tag or slot that has to go in the corresponding slot/pin to work correctly.
Just rereading your post, when you say that with oil only it is "really hard" to turn, are we talking slightly, moderately, or "gotta use two hands" hard?  Replenished without the rotor, you can feel a slight drag when winding and if you spin the handle it will stop fairly quickly, but when the rotor is installed you get the benefit of inertia and the handle spins longer because everything is torqued to where it should be and clearances are set.  The only other thing I could think of would be a pinion gear/bearing/magplate shim/spacer in the wrong spot?  The o-ring  not displaced?


Everything is in the right spot.
I've uploaded a video which shows how i assemble the reel and oil it with ferofluid.

Maybe that helps to find the mistake.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecTmEFAl5MQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecTmEFAl5MQ)


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: ReelClean on March 19, 2021, 11:35:23 AM
I can't see anything obviously wrong.  What weight of grease did you use for gearing/bearings?  Most of these reels come with very little, very light grease in them and when finished they will usually feel "tighter", but they are magnitudes more durable and water resistant.  Sometimes I can get the shimming of the main/pinion so good that the handle will fall to the bottom of it's arc if released from the top, but that is not guaranteed!  If not overly tight or rough/grinding/"geary" I would be tempted to finish it up and sit in front of the TV winding for an hour to see if it displaces any excess grease in the works.


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on March 20, 2021, 09:03:49 AM
I can't see anything obviously wrong.  What weight of grease did you use for gearing/bearings?  Most of these reels come with very little, very light grease in them and when finished they will usually feel "tighter", but they are magnitudes more durable and water resistant.  Sometimes I can get the shimming of the main/pinion so good that the handle will fall to the bottom of it's arc if released from the top, but that is not guaranteed!  If not overly tight or rough/grinding/"geary" I would be tempted to finish it up and sit in front of the TV winding for an hour to see if it displaces any excess grease in the works.

Yeah absolutely, i'am servicing my shimano's for a a decent amount of time now and know this kind of process. Iam using the same lubricants as iam using for my shimano's, so this cant be the mistake.

It must be sth. with the magnetic plate and the ar sleeve. I think i've seen every method on youtube now, where people oil and assemble there daiwa reels with magnetic fluid. Everybody uses a different technique- but at the end every reel performs very good.

Many guys, adding the ferofluid first and screw in the screws after that, also there is a method where they oil the magentic plate first and then assemble it "over" the sleeve.

I've tried every method and none of them worked.

One question which belongs to that, do you oil the backside of the magnetic plate, or just the "surrounding" between ar sleeve and magnetic plate?

Also, how do you know that u filled in enough ferrofluid?

Iam running out of ferrofluid at the moment, which is absolutely crazy cause i've only tried to maintain one reel (just that u guys have an idea how many times i failed)...., so there are only a few attempts possible for me. At the moment i'am/was using this reelshop oil from korea (ebay) in this super premium alu container.

I've ordered a much cheaper one from amazon where a guy says that he is using it for magselaed Daiwa reels for a long time now without any problems.


So wish me luck guys, I will find the mistake as always, it will only take a while... ::)


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: ReelClean on March 20, 2021, 10:31:43 AM
I refill after everything is assembled, just before the rotor goes back on.  Did you watch the first video I did on youtube in about 2015?  I haven't changed the process for any iteration of magseal reel since then.
For that size reel, you will use about 2 microfurks* of fluid!  Just enough to make a meniscus, the mag plate will form both sides of the seal.

* There are 10 microfurks in a poofteenth, and 100 poofteenths in a tad (in case you needed the conversion)   ;)


Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on April 04, 2021, 01:11:12 PM
Yes, i've seen it.

This photo was taken before i assembled and cleaned the reel...

Does the reel maybe need this second ring of ferofluid which you can see on that picture?

Still didn't figured out, what the fu.. problem is.





Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: Justus on April 04, 2021, 01:46:44 PM
I refill after everything is assembled, just before the rotor goes back on.  Did you watch the first video I did on youtube in about 2015?  I haven't changed the process for any iteration of magseal reel since then.
For that size reel, you will use about 2 microfurks* of fluid!  Just enough to make a meniscus, the mag plate will form both sides of the seal.

* There are 10 microfurks in a poofteenth, and 100 poofteenths in a tad (in case you needed the conversion)   ;)


Also do u mark the position of the excenter gear by older reels, so the same gears are running together?




Title: Re: Ballistic LT 4000 CXH - centering magnet washer - mag sealed
Post by: ReelClean on April 04, 2021, 11:05:59 PM

The second ring is only excess fluid following the magnetic field around the plate, aesthetic problem only.  None of the Daiwas I have serviced has had "timed" gears (like some Shimano do); marking the gears would ensure that they went back in as per initial assembly, but that is getting a bit anal and shouldn't be required unless the gears were cut/worn out of spec.  It would only be tight in one spot in the rotation, and if they were indeed "timed" it would lock up if wrong.
When does it change?  Before the rotor is fitted, after the nut is installed finger tight, after the rotor nut is torqued?  From your video I don't see anything seriously wrong, the smaller reels often do not freespin as long as larger reels because they don't have the same inertia in the rotor.