Reel Repair by Alan Tani

General Maintenance Tips => Tools and Lubricants => Topic started by: Bill B on April 11, 2021, 02:22:50 AM

Title: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Bill B on April 11, 2021, 02:22:50 AM
Just went to start my truck after a long winters nap, started but could not get any power and stalled.  Pulled the fuel filter and it was black with what looked to be mold.....now I will admit I haven't changed it for about 40,000 miles, but even the fuel in the bowl looked black.....what's up with this California diesel?  Any suggestions?  Hate to dump 10 gallons of diesel left in the tank.....Bill
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: MarkT on April 11, 2021, 02:43:58 AM
Change the filer on schedule and actually drive it and it should be good!
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Donnyboat on April 11, 2021, 03:10:03 AM
Over here in Western Australia, the Government decided to reduce the suphur in the fuel, but on cold mornings, it would clog up the filters & fuel lines, untill the day temperature warmed up, just maybe, your problem at this moment, good luck cheers Don. 
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 11, 2021, 03:51:24 AM
I always keep my tank full and add anti gelling addy if I don't have time to burn off summer diesel (35 gallons)
Drain it and burn it for heat
Put in fresh diesel
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: oldmanjoe on April 11, 2021, 05:35:20 AM
 It is a microbial growth  in the fuel
   https://axi-international.com/addressing-algae-in-diesel-fuel/
     
     
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: oc1 on April 11, 2021, 05:53:20 AM
Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 11, 2021, 05:35:20 AM
It is a microbial growth  in the fuel
   https://axi-international.com/addressing-algae-in-diesel-fuel/
I had no idea.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: oldmanjoe on April 11, 2021, 06:06:49 AM
 They have products to kill  it , i use about 1/2 gallon of gasoline to every 10 gallons diesel fuel to kill it and break the chaining effect .  Just keep a fuel filter handy.  
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Wompus Cat on April 11, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
This Bacteria and others have been around for over thirty years and was first noticed in Aviation then to our Diesel fuels .It is not good and depending on what year model you vehicle is as to what Sensors ,Exhaust Cats, and  or Injection Type will play a major part in how to treat your current problem and what  additives you should use if any. In a word this stuff eats hydrocarbon and craps water and will actually cover your pre screens in the  bottom of your tanks if present as well as any of the in line sediment filters present in a lot of Cat Engines fuel system designs. So just draining the fuel or siphoning it off merely delays the problem starting over and over and over..

Regardless of what you have heard  drain the crap you have out ,replace all filters ,clean the pre screens if present and
Like Gobi stated get rid of it ,use it for heating .

I use a Product called Prist . It is used in Aviation  and regardless of what anybody says it works .

Again I emphasize that you need to take caution in anything you do untill you figure out what Sensors,Emision Systems,and Injection Delivery you have except for the part of Dumping the old crap out and doing all the Filters/screens. Otherwise you can end up with a staggering cost .
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Bill B on April 11, 2021, 02:20:40 PM
Crap, sounds like I have a mess on my hands.  I have about 18 gallons in the tank to dispose of, but no way to use as heating fuel.  What are my chances of treating the tank with a biocide then filtering?  I have a bunch of paper filters used to filter lacquer paint.  The truck is a 2002 Ford F-350 with the old 7.3 liter.  Bill
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Keta on April 11, 2021, 02:56:29 PM
I maintained large diesel tanks at a powerhouse and we used BioBor the keep the bugs under control.  Several other additives also work.

I would recommend draining the fuel and getting rid of it as the amount does not warrent having it polished or buying the pump and filter system to do it yourself.  Coffee filters will work but messy and time consuming.  With current fuel prices, not looking good in the future too, it would probably be worth filtering but I would put it in my burn pil

 My 7.3 has almost 300,000 miles on it and runs well.  I have had to replace the injector control module and injectors.

Keeping water out helps too, the bugs thrive at the interface of the water and fuel.  Keep your tank full when not running it for extended times and condensation is reduced.  Several fuel additives help keep the bugs under control if used often.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 11, 2021, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on April 11, 2021, 02:20:40 PM
Crap, sounds like I have a mess on my hands.  I have about 18 gallons in the tank to dispose of, but no way to use as heating fuel.  What are my chances of treating the tank with a biocide then filtering?  I have a bunch of paper filters used to filter lacquer paint.  The truck is a 2002 Ford F-350 with the old 7.3 liter.  Bill

burn it pls, my stealership charges around $15 a gallon to dispose of diesel if not more.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Keta on April 11, 2021, 03:40:04 PM
They probably polish it, treat it then burn it in their diesel vehicles.  Win win for them.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Mic on April 12, 2021, 02:00:00 PM
 I sold a 85 Ford 1T w/ a 6.9 a few years back that was well over 300k miles. About once every couple of months or so, I'd put a qt. of ATF in the fuel tank. Got that from an old mechanic after sulfur was removed from diesel.

I'd also us Sea Foam additive to get water out. It works good to

The half gallon of gasoline for 10 gallons of diesel, works in old farm tractors, really, really well.


Just my two cents

Mic
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 12, 2021, 03:21:13 PM
Diesels if not used daily is a P-A-I-N
in more than one orifice.

Any biocide or addy with a biocide will work, and keep your tank topped off when storing your diesel.

Here in West MI, one would think diesel addy would be in every auto store, yeah right.

I found amazing amazon sells Schaeffer's addy by the gallon, $4x/gallons is like guying fluoro line at the same price as mono.
Newer diesels like mine have picky high pressure fuel pumps, you gots to watch what you dump in your tank.

I fill with part bio fuel few times a year to give my tank a good cleaning.

Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Bill B on April 12, 2021, 03:56:00 PM
A little update.....changed out the filter, drained the fuel bowl, pulled the fuel line feeding the fuel pump to drain.  The fuel coming out looked really good and clear......may have dodged a bullet on this one.  Did order BioBor, the biocide and lubricant, will be here in a couple days...have two more filters in stand by...this old truck of mine is about to get some long deserved maintenance....After 198K miles it is long overdue...Gotta love the old 7.3L diesels...Thank you all for the advice.....
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Crow on April 12, 2021, 04:54:12 PM
"Bio" diesel is worse for growth than "regular" diesel...but neither like "long term" storage, without treatment. Treat your fuel, and change your filters when they start to "plug up".
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 12, 2021, 11:14:56 PM
Quote from: Crow on April 12, 2021, 04:54:12 PM
"Bio" diesel is worse for growth than "regular" diesel...but neither like "long term" storage, without treatment. Treat your fuel, and change your filters when they start to "plug up".

oh, no bio for long term, just smells greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat, lol, the bio pump is on my way to my range, by the time I go there and come back, I am ready to refill the tank  ;D
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Bill B on April 13, 2021, 12:27:31 AM
Any thoughts on Seafoam for diesel?  I use it for my gas (but just started storing gas for my generators this winter).
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 13, 2021, 02:05:48 AM
Quote from: Bill B (Tarfu) on April 13, 2021, 12:27:31 AM
Any thoughts on Seafoam for diesel?  I use it for my gas (but just started storing gas for my generators this winter).

Diesel Addys:
1. Anti Gel
2. Lubricity
3. Cetane boost
4. Biocide

not sure where Seafoam lands, #2 maybe?
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: oldmanjoe on April 13, 2021, 03:27:50 AM
https://seafoamworks.com/product/sea-foam-motor-treatment-oil-fuel-additive/

   
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 13, 2021, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: oldmanjoe on April 13, 2021, 03:27:50 AM
https://seafoamworks.com/product/sea-foam-motor-treatment-oil-fuel-additive/

   

nice,

Stabilizes gas & diesel fuels up to 2 years and lubes the chamber.

Mine is direct injection.

I am still weary of using it in my newer diesel, too many expensive parts to go poop.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: foakes on April 13, 2021, 03:54:01 PM
Seafoam just works on everything — Diesel, gas.

I use it for my outboard, and all of the gas tools around here — chainsaws, wood splitter, weed-eater, DR mower, lawn mowers, pressure washer, generator — plus the truck and car.

Professionals in the trades use and recommend Seafoam.

It slowly dissolves and removes the crud buildup in the insides of engines — fuel, oil, injectors, oil ports, etc..

This is a good explanation of a capable product that has been around for over 70 years.

https://www.readersdigest.ca/cars/maintenance/sea-foam-engine-treatment/

Best, Fred
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Crow on April 13, 2021, 08:51:33 PM
The only downside to *Seafoam...or , really, and fuel system "cleaner", is that it DOES clean...so, if you haven't been using it, expect several plugged filteers, after you start using it...the "older" the vehicle, the more "crud" is in the system, so it can take awhile before the crap stops flowing !
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Makule on April 26, 2021, 08:39:36 AM
Tried to be a good citizen and used biodiesel in my dump truck.  That fuel gummed up my injection pump and injectors.  Cost me some $$$ to repair the pump and replace the injectors.  Had to drain the tank but could not get all of the fuel out so the problem happened a second time.  So much for being "environmentally conscious".
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 26, 2021, 12:56:41 PM
Quote from: Makule on April 26, 2021, 08:39:36 AM
Tried to be a good citizen and used biodiesel in my dump truck.  That fuel gummed up my injection pump and injectors.  Cost me some $$$ to repair the pump and replace the injectors.  Had to drain the tank but could not get all of the fuel out so the problem happened a second time.  So much for being "environmentally conscious".

Makule,
How long does the fuel sit in your dump truck?

My Chevi Dmax is probably neglected diesel east of the Mississippi. Did you run straight BIO? or a blend?
I run 5% to 10% blend in mine few times a year.  Per my butt dino the best fuel I have ever run was bio from a co-op near Grand Island, NE.

Guys in my Chevi club have lost injectors due to abrasive stuff getting through or h20 into the injectors.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Crow on April 26, 2021, 04:21:00 PM
For what it's worth....my last "real job" was wrenching at a Massey Ferguson dealership...and, naturally, all the customers were farmers. Almost to a man, all of them were NOT big fans of bio diesel, especially in ratios above 10% bio. Too many issues with clogging, jelling, and pump issues ! These guys all seemed to feel that, while it sounded good to have another "market" for their soy beans, it wasn't all as "rosy" as it appeared ! Most fuel stations in our area that sell diesel, sell either 10%, 0r 11% bio IN THE SUMMER, and switch to "straight" diesel, in the fall / winter...too many complaints with fuel jelling in the colder weather. In my pickup...Duramax...I have had issues with the fuel "jelling" in cold weather (when I still STAYED here during the winter !!), and always at the "start" of the cold weather...when there was still some bio fuel in MY tank, as well as in the gas station's tank...as the season progresses, and the "ratio" of Real" to "bio" got better, the "problems" got fewer ! I have tried...or SEEN tried, just about every brand of "fuel conditioner" there is....some swear by one kind...other's swear by ANOTHER kind ! My take on it is, if you live where temps get below 20-25 degrees...don't use bio fuel in the "cold times".....if you use bio fuel...no matter WHAT the temps are...figure on more frequent filter changes...if you use a "fuel conditioner"...use it all the time, not just  "occasionally".
As to any difference in "power output" between "real" diesel, and 10% bio blend, any dyno tests we did at the dealership showed little..if any..difference in HP, although, one test we did on a "fairly large" tractor (about 300 HP), that was run on "straight 100% bio", showed a very slight HP INCREASE, over what it put out on 100% "real" diesel. I would add that , for any who "blend" #1 diesel (kerosene) into their equipment in the winter, to help eliminate jelling, WILL show some pretty significant power drops, as well as more injection pump issues (under "full power" operation.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Mic on April 26, 2021, 05:09:49 PM
 Crow,

Where is "Here" ?

(when I still STAYED here during the winter !!),


Mic
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Crow on April 26, 2021, 09:20:18 PM
Whiteside County, Illinois.......about 30 miles east of the Quad Cities
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gfish on April 26, 2021, 10:02:48 PM
Interesting. Well written/informative article, Joe. Here now for years, I've been try'n to avoid filling up, while, or right after, the delivery truck was filling the underground tank. Thinking sediment was being stirred-up and clogging my filter.
Always heard good things about Seafoam(where'd that name come from?). Could'a used some on the continentinal divide pass in Wyoming once. 5 degrees F outside on Thanksgiving day and water was freezing in my exposed-dirty glass fuel filter, causing hesitations and fits and starts. Never was so happy to finally hit the peak, pass all the big rigs chaining-up, and start downhill towards Lander. That long, stressful, white-kunckle driving will prematurely age you.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on April 27, 2021, 01:24:47 AM
Quote from: Crow on April 26, 2021, 04:21:00 PM
For what it's worth....my last "real job" was wrenching at a Massey Ferguson dealership...and, naturally, all the customers were farmers. Almost to a man, all of them were NOT big fans of bio diesel, especially in ratios above 10% bio. Too many issues with clogging, jelling, and pump issues ! These guys all seemed to feel that, while it sounded good to have another "market" for their soy beans, it wasn't all as "rosy" as it appeared ! Most fuel stations in our area that sell diesel, sell either 10%, 0r 11% bio IN THE SUMMER, and switch to "straight" diesel, in the fall / winter...too many complaints with fuel jelling in the colder weather. In my pickup...Duramax...I have had issues with the fuel "jelling" in cold weather (when I still STAYED here during the winter !!), and always at the "start" of the cold weather...when there was still some bio fuel in MY tank, as well as in the gas station's tank...as the season progresses, and the "ratio" of Real" to "bio" got better, the "problems" got fewer ! I have tried...or SEEN tried, just about every brand of "fuel conditioner" there is....some swear by one kind...other's swear by ANOTHER kind ! My take on it is, if you live where temps get below 20-25 degrees...don't use bio fuel in the "cold times".....if you use bio fuel...no matter WHAT the temps are...figure on more frequent filter changes...if you use a "fuel conditioner"...use it all the time, not just  "occasionally".
As to any difference in "power output" between "real" diesel, and 10% bio blend, any dyno tests we did at the dealership showed little..if any..difference in HP, although, one test we did on a "fairly large" tractor (about 300 HP), that was run on "straight 100% bio", showed a very slight HP INCREASE, over what it put out on 100% "real" diesel. I would add that , for any who "blend" #1 diesel (kerosene) into their equipment in the winter, to help eliminate jelling, WILL show some pretty significant power drops, as well as more injection pump issues (under "full power" operation.

Crow, my neighbor bought a Massey, you must have some stories.

Gelling - the one word I dread. My strategy has been to use up my summer gas and in October buy diesel from a high volume diesel place solely.
Some years I add some spice to my tank:

https://www.peakhd.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/PEAK_DFA_ANTI-GEL-CONCENTRATE-Spec-Sheet_0917.pdf?x38462
https://www.hotshotsecret.com/diesel-winter-anti-gel/

both are sold at Tractor Supply, so sourcing is important for me, I have never gelled till now. My truck sits a lot with OLD fuel and it starts right up when it is -14F outside as I have to move it for the snow truck.

Hotshot is what I am using now, All I do is dump some in the tank before it gets below 30s.

I do use Soyshield in summer as snake oil [not sure why], my aim in summer is to boost some cetane so my miles intervals between DPF clean cycle is little more than 100 miles. :o



Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Makule on May 04, 2021, 06:22:49 AM
Filled the tank with biodiesel.
After use it probably sat in the tank about a month and then it went downhill from then.  The truck only ran a few miles (less than 50) a week.

Quote from: Gobi King on April 26, 2021, 12:56:41 PM
Quote from: Makule on April 26, 2021, 08:39:36 AM
Tried to be a good citizen and used biodiesel in my dump truck.  That fuel gummed up my injection pump and injectors.  Cost me some $$$ to repair the pump and replace the injectors.  Had to drain the tank but could not get all of the fuel out so the problem happened a second time.  So much for being "environmentally conscious".

Makule,
How long does the fuel sit in your dump truck?

My Chevi Dmax is probably neglected diesel east of the Mississippi. Did you run straight BIO? or a blend?
I run 5% to 10% blend in mine few times a year.  Per my butt dino the best fuel I have ever run was bio from a co-op near Grand Island, NE.

Guys in my Chevi club have lost injectors due to abrasive stuff getting through or h20 into the injectors.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: kevin cozens on August 14, 2023, 12:32:49 PM
i live in the UK. back in the 70's my dad used to drive lorries. in winter the fuel used to gel up.
My father prevented it by adding half a gallon of petrol to the fuel.
The only problem is that i would not reccommend doing this to a vehicle with electronic fuel systems.
The old fuel systems were ok. my mate even used to use central heating oil. you would have a 25 litre drum and you added about a third of a pint of 20/50 engine oil to lube the pump. diesel is a natural luibricant but not heating oil
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: Gobi King on August 17, 2023, 05:17:18 AM
I rarely drove my diesel last year cuz of high diesel prices,
I used Hot Shot's Secret addy to keep it from gelling and other nasty stuff.
Title: Re: Diesel Fuel
Post by: kevin cozens on September 08, 2023, 06:19:22 PM
Quote from: Mic on April 26, 2021, 05:09:49 PMCrow,
 
 Where is "Here" ?

 (when I still STAYED here during the winter !!),


 Mic
OPPISITE THERE ;D