G'day lads,
Here's a little project that I've been working on for the past few days.
It's Daiwa Ventura 60 and is about 40 years old, as far as I can ascertain.
I got in touch with Daiwa in the US and Toby said they'd been out of production for 30-odd years.
I picked it up off the local buy-and-sell site for about US$40.
The bearings were shot and it seemed like it hadn't been used in a good while.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_41_199651424.jpeg)
Despite the scuffing and general wear-and-tear, it's beautifully made and built like the proverbial brick outhouse.
Note the drag pre-set adjuster at the top of the drag lever.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_41_199661816.jpeg)
I reckon the reason it slipped off the production line is that the drag material was hopelessly lumpy and sticky, and never worked particularly well.
They'd work alright as a winch, which is how this one was used over most of its life - bouncing the bottom for big hapuku (grouper).
I did some bench-testing on the drag and it's the worst I've seen, especially given it's all mechanically sound.
The drag plate carried the drag washer and pushed against another drag plate on the spool - basically the opposite of most modern lever drag set-ups.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_42_19967624.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_36_19941766.jpeg)
The material is hopeless - ripples and glazed patches etc make it totally ineffective.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_36_199422119.jpeg)
Everything else is great though. The dogs are S/S and the spring system is a good one.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_36_19943545.jpeg)
You can see from the wear pattern that the functional drag surface area was pretty minimal.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_36_19944227.jpeg)
What I decided to do was remove the spool drag plate, switch that over to the floating drag plate, and cut a CF drag washer to fit into the spool cavity.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_37_19945791.jpeg)
I've started polishing the drag plate here and buffed it to a fine, lustrous shine later.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_37_199461520.jpeg)
Here's the drag washer (cheers Wallace), cut to match the drag plate.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_37_19948122.jpeg)
The centre hole has been cut and it's ready to be fitted to the spool...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_37_19947541.jpeg)
Just like a bought one... ;)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_37_199491981.jpeg)
Now to the drag plate. I drilled and tapped the floating drag plate and fastened on the original spool drag plate.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_38_19950869.jpeg)
[(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_38_1995165.jpeg)
I also lapped down the outer edge of drag plate by 1mm to allow it to spin freely within the lip of the spool.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_38_19952254.jpeg)
Reassembly is now underway. New bearings and everything cleaned, polished and greased...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_39_19953955.jpeg)
And here's the finished product...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_39_199541483.jpeg)
The two screws holding the Daiwa badge sheered off, so I drilled and retapped.
I need to find better screws (ie with smaller heads), but these will do the trick for now.
I'll also get the handle rechromed (or simply replace it with one of Alan's Kolekar units)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_39_199551328.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_39_199562394.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_39_199571069.jpeg)
I've done quite a bit of drag testing on it and it pulls 35+lbs (15kg) with ease (though it'll no doubt handle a bit more).
I lost about 1mm from the width of the overall drag mechanism through these changes and this meant that pre-setting the drag to higher settings moved the spool away from the clicker plate just enough to make the clicker too quiet.
As a result, I had to add another drag washer on top of the first.
However, it feels like the top washer is lifting fractionaly as the drag is backed off, so I haven't yet been able to determine where max drag/loss of freespool occurs.
I've avoided gluing the two together as I'm concerned about glue leaching through the CF.
I may add a large spring/circlip to hold the CF washers in the spool.
This'll necessitate a lip being ground into the edge of the spool cavity, so I'll get to that in due course.
At a 30-35lb strike setting, the drag is like silk and quite literally better than new.
The tolerances and alloy quality are also top-notch, so I reckon it's definitely worth the effort.
It's a bit battered, but it's nearly as old as me so it's bound to have a few war wounds by now... ;)
Hope it was of some interest.
All the best, Justin
very impressive work!
Cheers Alan.
Justin: great job. With regard to gluing the carbon fibers together I don't think you need to worry about glue leaching through. Somewhere on this site is a thread that discusses gluing the drag, so it is done regularly. However if you need to raise the drag plate why not make a shim out stainless steel to raise the drag plate so you are not wasting carbon fiber. If I understand how that drag works from the photos it should work. Cheers, Dominick
Thanks Dominick - appreciate the advice.
I'll let it all bed-in a bit, then review the options.
Cheers, Justin
Very good Justin. Way to think out of the box to make an old reel better and usable by today's standards.
redsetta
you will get a job in alan,s shop when he opens it,me,ill make the coffee.
Quote from: wallacewt on January 29, 2012, 10:26:12 PM
redsetta
you will get a job in alan,s shop when he opens it,me,ill make the coffee.
Bollocks. Aussies can't brew coffee, it might make tea jealous. :D. Justin: What about you Kiwis, do you go for a Costa Rican Dark Roast in the morning? Dominick
Stronger the better. ;)
Good work, Impressive !!!
G'day lads,
Here's a bit of an update on the Ventura project...
I followed Alan's step-by-step technique to cut a spool sleeve, including finishing the sleeve with my drill press - worked a treat.
I also added another belleville, so it's now (())) - with the three towards the spool - and it ramps up more evenly...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_40_199581101.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_40_19959304.jpeg)
I ditched the second drag washer and shimed the left side plate (effectively bringing the floating drag plate closer to the spool) with a 113H keyed drag washer that I honed out on a lathe.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_40_199601503.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_40_19961853.jpeg)
Here's the left side-plate fit - perfect (27mm OD by the way, lathed out to 18mm ID).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_41_199621089.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_41_19963634.jpeg)
The 18mm ID gave plenty of room for the ID of the drag plate bearing...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/19/3590_04_08_17_6_24_41_199641504.jpeg)
I've done some more testing and it's now producing a silky 25lb strike with a lazy, long-running free spool.
(I greased the spool bearings for now as it's specifically a trolling reel and will try clean bearings when I get hold of some TSI301.)
At this strike setting, it produces 35lbs at sunset - smooth as...
Though slightly less than before, it's better balanced in the frame now and runs nicley against the clicker plate at all drag settings.
At over 30lbs strike, it starts to compromise freespool - albeit very slightly - but there's no doubt more in it yet (it is a 60-class reel after all).
This level of re-engineering and refinement in a lever drag is a new step for me, but I'm pretty happy with it so far as the next step up from my 113H Tiburon.
Righto, hope it's of some interest.
All the best, Justin
PS Alan - what's your opinion on a reasonable drag range for this reel?
what you've got sounds good!
Awesome job, Justin! Nice reel also, never seen it before.
Justin, that's a work of art you just created.
Nice job.
What holds the carbon washer non-rotatably affixed to the spool? Just wondering.
.
G'day and welcome Robert.
In a word, nothing - the CF is simply pressed between the rotating spool and the 'fixed' drag plate (like the old TLD5, 10 or 15).
I considered gluing the CF to the spool or notching a groove in the lip of the spool for a spring clip but, having tested exhaustively and fished the reel, don't believe drag performance would be significantly improved by either.
That said, if I were redesigning the reel from scratch, a tabbed CF washer on either side (as per an Accurate TwinDrag) would doubtless be preferable.
Cheers, Justin
PS Probably worth bearing in mind that I'm no expert, just an enthusiast... ;) ;D
Okay. If it works for you.
Just wondering; never seen that solution before. This including TLDs and the rest of them, which usually do have tabs or a screw-down ring clamping the disc non-rotatably to the spool to guarantee that the drag washer is in fact sliding against the drag plate and not the spool.
There seem to be four handy threaded holes in the spool that nobody is using..
On the other hand, it will inevitably choose to slide on the surface providing the lesser resistance, so why bother.
.
Thanks Robert - I hadn't thought about the cooling shield locking down the CF plate on TLDs etc.
I considered screwing it down as you've suggested, but was concerned about the drag plate touching the screw heads when under load.
I'll have another look at it tonight, as I have some countersunk screws which might suit.
If I can get the appropriate clearances, I'll do as you suggest (Dominick also had similar advice).
Cheers, Justin
PS
QuoteOn the other hand, it will inevitably choose to slide on the surface providing the lesser resistance, so why bother.
My initial thoughts entirely... ;) ;D
Hi Guys, Lost my way with adding the photos so Justin (redsetta) advised uploading to Photobucket. Had a go and hope you can all see them, let me know of any problems and I will have another go. :-[
("Nice to see someone taking care of an old Diawa Ventura, looks like you have done a grand job. I was a little put back with your statements regarding the drag, my Ventura is very smooth at all settings and when you need it to lock up tight, it will clamp solid (150lb Skate). I bought mine in the early 1970's, I had a friend make a leather case for the wooden box so this has remained in good condition. There are a few light scratches near the top due to a person trying to attach a fighting harness to me and the reel when I hooked into a 100lb Porbeagle, I kept telling hime to keep back but he insisted I put his harness on. I eventually got my friend to move him away but he had caused the scratches that I have to live with now. The Reel handled it perfectly with its smooth lever drag, it is infinetly adjustable with the micro drag knob on top of the lever, this allows you to compensate for different conditions.
I have included some photos, hope they spur you on with your Ventura 60).
Use the link below to access the folder:
http://photobucket.com/diawa-ventura-60
Backlash's photos:
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-a.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-b.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-Reel-a.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-Reel-b.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-Reel-c.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-Reel-d.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-Reel-Manual-a.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-Reel-Manual-b.jpg)
(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q495/backlash19/Diawa%20Ventura%2060%20Lever%20Drag%20Fishing%20Reel/Ventura-Box-Reel-Manual-c.jpg)
Now that is a beauty!
Yours has obviously been well loved, whereas mine had taken a hammering - which likely accounts for the drag issues (ie glazed, pitted etc)
Thanks for sharing - it's the only other Ventura I've seen and really is a cracker.
Cheers, Justin
PS Welcome aboard!
That is quite a treasure you have there; reel, box and all.
George
That is one gorgeous reel.
Hey folks I found this thread looking for some info on these reels. I've been given the opportunity to get these setup and fish them up and down the east coast of the US this summer/fall. I've got a 40 and a 60 and they are in great shape but were stored for years and the drags are sticky. Does anyone have anything to add to what the OP has found? I know this is an old thread but redsetta if you are still here I would love to hear any advice. Thanks for having me.
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad127/webeboatin/20180410_145225.jpg (http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad127/webeboatin/20180410_145225.jpg)
G'day and welcome finstinct,
Happy to assist in any way that'd be of service.
When you open 'em up, perhaps take some photos of the drag plates for us to have a look at.
Though my old battler had terminal drag issues, Backlash had personal experience of them working well in their original form - which indicates it might be a relatively easy fix for yours.
All the best, Justin
Thank you redsetta.... So here they are.
http://s928.photobucket.com/user/webeboatin/library/Daiwas
The current drag material is just about 3mm thick. In my mind the easiest way to do this would be to create identical washers out of CF and glue them in where the current material were screwed down. When you did this originally, you went in another direction which is slightly more complicated. Does anyone see any potential reasons not to do this the "easy" way?
The thickness of the current drag material would force me to laminate 3 layers of 1mm material (thickest I can find) so I'm a little worried that this process would create something too thick above the 3mm. UPDATE: I did find 1.5mm material so I would still need to laminate 2 washers together. As someone suggested earlier to save CF why not make a SS washer to shim and mount the CF to the washer? I don't think using the current threaded holes and countersunk screws would work with CF so I see why you didn't go down that road.
I don't have access to a machine shop so anything complicated would have to be contracted out. But I am open to doing so to get these right.
If you had to do this all over again which direction would you go?
Anybody have a trusted source of CF sheets in the US? These are 3" in diameter so some of the sheets that I've seen available would only yield one washer per sheet.