I just picked up a new condition 27sh for myself, and a 47sh for a friend. Other than the obvious drag upgrades are there any other worthwhile aftermarket stuff that's still available for these? I especially want an AR ratchet with more teeth for less backplay.
Nice. I have a 27H and a 30SH. Never considered the AR ratchet. The handle and knob are relatively small on these reels, especially the the knob. Put on a power knob, but kept the crank-arm on the 30SH. If you come-up with something, love to see/hear about it.
I like these reels. Compared to a Jigmaster, they come right out of the box more heavy-duty: aluminum 2-piece frame with outer trim rings(for protection of the aluminum frame edges, I guess), aluminum spool, that crank-side spool ball bearing attached to the bridge and closer to the spool(= strength). I'd love to get a longer crank that keeps the same specialty nut cover(nesassary to keep water out of the gear sleeve) and maybe even have that nut cover made of metal instead a plastic.
see if you can add 2nd dog (not synched -- alternating, so you double # of stop-points)
Quote from: philaroman on March 27, 2022, 11:36:00 PMsee if you can add 2nd dog (not synched -- alternating, so you double # of stop-points)
I like the way you think. I haven't opened it up yet to see what that would entail but it sounds reasonable.
I'm thinking 50# braid on the 27 and 65 or 80# on the 47.
These seem castable. Not as a BFS setup, or as an ideal surf setup, but probably castable.
brick crap houses. some years ago i bought six 47's from a guy for $180 in nice shape, and they are my go to reels for downrigging. havent done a thing to them execept put line on. I mean not even oil (don't judge me folks, I was busy servicing or building all the pretty ones that sit on a shelf). No issues. not one. i dont count a badge or two falling off.
Remember these reels were designed and produced before braid. They have plenty of drag to fish 20# or perhaps 30#, but anything stronger is wasted on them -- their three tiny drag washers just don't make much friction. That said, I really like these reels and fished within their specifications, are simply great -- much nicer than comparable Penn reels like the 209 and 309.
After a carbontex drag upgrade, fishing my 47SH up to a 50lb with top shots connected to 65lb braid main.
You can take any Penn-compatible Type A power handle arm and incrementally file the curved sides of the mounting hole with a curved/round needle file until it just fits the 30H/30SH/47H/47SH/170/170H; do not do anything to the two flat sides.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZjFFNS1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gGxiVbe.jpg)
Don't have a 27...
carbon fiber drag washers and handle grips!!!!! ;D
Does anyone have a copy of the diagram for the 27SH? I can't find it anywhere, not even on the daiwa site. Does it go by a different alphanumeric classification than the label suggests? I managed to find the 47SH diagram and I suspect its similar enough minus part #s, but now it has become a point of curiosity why i can't find it.
Jason,
I can help you.
I picked up a low-priced 27SH reel, sent it to Fred for a Once-Over.
I have schematics on file, for just that... FILE. Don't plan on opening up one soon.
Same issue here with the TOO SHORT handle.
Wayne
Thanks for the inspiration Porthos.
I used a 24-55 Penn power handle(3 - position style). Filing/fitting it to the Daiwa gear sleeve was not that hard.
The screw holding the nut cover was different though; drilled a 5/64 hole and fudged(mangled)an extra screw into there, to cut some pseudo-threads. It worked, but I'll see for sure, when I take it back apart for service again.
Didn't wanna buy a whole tap set for one tiny metric screw.
Got about 1/2" more length on the new handle and a ball-style power knob now—-cool.
An alternate designation is SL27H:
schematics.mikesreelrepair.com/albums/daiwa/Daiwa_SL27H.pdf
Similar to the SL47H file:
schematics.mikesreelrepair.com/albums/daiwa/Daiwa_SL47H.pdf
The layout of parts is nearly identical...open both PDF's in a browser, and quickly toogle between the two tabs. The scan for the 47H has better resolution; would recommend using that one.
If I was searching for an alternate 27 handle, I'd start comparing the hole of the factory handle to ones of power handles for recent model baitcasters.
YMMV.
Quote from: Gfish on April 04, 2022, 03:15:00 PM...drilled a 5/64 hole and fudged(mangled)an extra screw into there, to cut some pseudo-threads. It worked...
This was basically the same path I took.
I sent a note to Alan C yesterday to see what he thought about making some offset blades to fit these reels, similar to the ones he just came out with for the Penn's. I'm in for at least a half dozen out of the gate if he does it- I know a lot of us have the small Daiwas, and I bet NONE of us like the toy handle. I know I have 11 reels without thinking hard that need this upgrade.
The handle that fits an abu baitcaster appears to fit the 27SH.
Also I finally opened it up. Didn't realize nothing is screwed in. When I work on a reel the first time I'm careful to lay the parts down in order they were removed, and that has massively aided in successful reassembly.
Well after removing the handle side plate I turned it over to look at something and out falls everything. I didn't even get a chance to really get a look at how any of it fit together, let alone worked, before that.
So I guess I'll be disassembling the 47sh (a lot more carefully) before I can attempt to reassemble the 27SH.
Did I mention I'm an idiot? Many of you have likely already figured that out.
This should be at least 80% similar:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=13484.0
Does anyone know if the 50H gear sleeve fits in a 47SH? I see there's a stainless version of the 50H sleeve, and the person I'm working on the reel for is leaning toward overkill. He heard a rumor that these metal frame workhorses can handle far more than factory supplied drag and wants to see if I can get it over 20# usable drag. I said I'd see what I can do.
Carbon drags for both just arrived today. I kinda wish Bryan had an ultimate kit for these.
Also I noticed that the stock drag had 3 washers, this kit has 4, and one is a different material and slightly smaller. Where does that one go?
the small washer likely goes under the main gear. for gear sleeves, i doubt it. i'll see if i can dig up schematics later, but that would give you your answer.
Quote from: alantani on April 11, 2022, 04:51:35 PMthe small washer likely goes under the main gear. for gear sleeves, i doubt it. i'll see if i can dig up schematics later, but that would give you your answer.
Under the main was my guess as well. Is it replacing the washer the schematic shows there?
Problem is the schematics list the whole bridge as an assembly. Similar to how my BG lists the main/pinion as one part # even though it's 2 parts. That was the first thing I checked.
chances are that you have a hard fiber washer under the main gear and felt drag washers inside the main gear. all four of these washers get tossed and replaced with greased carbon fiber.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on April 11, 2022, 03:18:05 PM...wants to see if I can get it over 20# usable drag. I said I'd see what I can do...
Personally, I wouldn't go there. The 300H is a beefier reel than the 47SH with a lower 3.7:1 gearing than the 47SH's 5.1:1, and about 18 lbs max from full top-of-spool is what I'm willing to push the 300H's 3+1 CF stack for a 60lb reel (and only in a pinch at that). 20+ lbs would turn the 47SH into a 60lb
LEVELWIND reel. The only current production 60lb factory-rated levelwinds are the Penn Fathoms 50 and 60...both being more structurally substantial than the (30+ year-old?) 47SH (factory rated to 20/280).
YMMV...
Quote from: Porthos on April 12, 2022, 01:52:52 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on April 11, 2022, 03:18:05 PM...wants to see if I can get it over 20# usable drag. I said I'd see what I can do...
Personally, I wouldn't go there. The 300H is a beefier reel than the 47SH with a lower 3.7:1 gearing than the 47SH's 5.1:1, and about 18 lbs max from full top-of-spool is what I'm willing to push the 300H's 3+1 CF stack for a 60lb reel (and only in a pinch at that). 20+ lbs would turn the 47SH into a 60lb LEVELWIND reel. The only current production 60lb factory-rated levelwinds are the Penn Fathoms 50 and 60...both being more structurally substantial than the (30+ year-old?) 47SH (factory rated to 20/280).
YMMV...
I would go there if your buddy is willing to take a chance. Nothing better than blowing up a reel to learn a bit about reel design. Porthos has some good points, though. On a star drag, the gear ratio multiplies the stress on the drive drive train components that are likely to fail. And this is a gear sleeve style main shaft ( like the classic Penns), which has issues.
But I would also guess that the levelwind would fail first.
In terms of 20 lbs drag, there is a difference between stopping a grouper in the first 10 feet and having a big tuna empty your spool. So there is 20 lbs, and there is 20 lbs.
-J
Well I could have taken the other one apart first to see how it all goes together, and if how long it took affected profit margin that likely woulda been my move. But this is my personal reel and this is a hobby. So I decided I was gonna figure it out.
And after about 3 hours, I did! Figuring out how the yoke went back in was the biggest struggle. Probably woulda been a piece of cake if I'd seen it intact before it all fell apart.
I swapped to carbon drags (with cal's), polished the metal drag washers, as well as the shaft that the gear sleeve spins on and all sliding surfaces of the LW assembly (and TSI'd the LW assembly) de-and-re-greased all surfaces and took a dremel brush head to the sideplates. TSI on the bearings, with some superlube brushed on them after.
The only thing I didn't do is take an after pic. But then I never took a before pic either.
Went from about 3 seconds of free spool to about 40 seconds. I had hoped for better but thats life. I need to spool it up and test the drag. It's definitely harder to turn the spool by finger than it was before (yet silky smooth). I did add a thin brass washer to the stack between the top hat and the "drag springs" (which were assembled in the {} position) but I doubt that is enough to account for the difference felt.
40 sec. Is pretty good in my book for a levelwind reel. There's 2 extra gears causing friction, relative to the non-levelwinder. Interested to see how well it casts.
Quote from: Gfish on April 13, 2022, 02:42:45 PM40 sec. Is pretty good in my book for a levelwind reel. There's 2 extra gears causing friction, relative to the non-levelwinder. Interested to see how well it casts.
Ok so I realize i was estimating, and not timing it. It's actually closer to 15-20 seconds. 40 seconds would be great but that ain't what I got.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 27, 2022, 11:46:49 PMI'm thinking 50# braid on the 27 and 65 or 80# on the 47.
Bonkers numbers mate, I have a 27 and a 47 and I fish them as 20# and 30# reels respectively, and they feel about right there.
Quote from: boon on April 14, 2022, 12:25:32 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 27, 2022, 11:46:49 PMI'm thinking 50# braid on the 27 and 65 or 80# on the 47.
Bonkers numbers mate, I have a 27 and a 47 and I fish them as 20# and 30# reels respectively, and they feel about right there.
w/ braid, that's like 4-6# & 6-8#, diameter-wise... PLUS, it's silky
will sneak into & wrap around all sorts of unwanted places
Jason's numbers for running line & your numbers for top-shot, sounds reasonable
Yeah I was going based on diameter more than anything. I was gonna do a 40# flouro long leader (is that what a so-called "top shot" is?)
Looking forward to fishing it, it seems like a quality little reel. Crazy how cheap they can be found
Quote from: philaroman on April 14, 2022, 12:43:21 AMQuote from: boon on April 14, 2022, 12:25:32 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 27, 2022, 11:46:49 PMI'm thinking 50# braid on the 27 and 65 or 80# on the 47.
Bonkers numbers mate, I have a 27 and a 47 and I fish them as 20# and 30# reels respectively, and they feel about right there.
w/ braid, that's like 4-6# & 6-8#, diameter-wise... PLUS, it's silky
will sneak into & wrap around all sorts of unwanted places
Jason's numbers for running line & your numbers for top-shot, sounds reasonable
He did not mention the braid size. Only the drag he would use. Big difference.
I had people in my shop pull drag with their rod and reel connected to a vise and certified scale. Simulating a fish fighting situation.
90% of them were pulling 20lbs or less. Try it sometime.
Quote from: handi2 on April 14, 2022, 04:11:17 AMI had people in my shop pull drag with their rod and reel connected to a vise and certified scale. Simulating a fish fighting situation.
90% of them were pulling 20lbs or less. Try it sometime.
This was a real eye-opener for me. Got some scales, pulled as hard as I dared on a few rods. Some were bent beyond anything I'd put on a fish and they were at less than 10lb.
Ive done that before with some spinners and a spring scale. I'm comfy to about 15# and can do 20 for structure avoidance but not as a sustained thing my back is the first to go.
But heres the question: my 27SH has the washer shown below, the 47SH does not. Its not on the schematic for the 47SH so I don't know that it's a missing part , but the 27sh gear sleeve spins super freely on the post but the 47sh does not. Should I try to track down a washer that'll fit?
Do not recall any washer under the gear sleeve in my 47SH. The breakdown and rebuild of the handle side was no different than the 30H/170.
Ok new wild eyed idea. The stock drags are like thick pieces of cardboard. Like about as thick as the metal washers. The new carbon drags are basically 2 carbon disks on either side of a thinner cardboard disk. Trying to match the stack height, i get it.
This gave me an idea that feels semi obvious. So I went to the conveniently nearby daiwa service center and bought an additional eared and keyed washer. If i can find thin carbon washers of appropriate ID & OD I can almost double the drag area of the reel at roughly the same stack height. Reasonable?
And to bring it full circle, what's the odds of successfully peeling and reusing the thin carbon disks my buddy already paid for?
I wouldn't try to peel the HT-100 washers. They will just fall apart.
Keith
Measure the original three washers and compare to four HT100's as shown in my 30H tutorial. Then double up CF's for the first washer...
Bryan Young had already gone through the evaluation of 5+1 stack for the 50H/300H/350H (which appears to be the same for the 47SH). Unless your main gear has the eared washer slots all the way to the bottom, drilling out the existing shallow slots are necessary to make it work. This additional mod and its complexity was the reason he choose not to put together and market 5+1's for the 50H/300H/350H.
So i was about to order a clamp for the 27sh but for the life of me I can't figure out how one attaches.
Note the 47sh shows a clamp in the diagram, the 27sh does not.
You looking for something like these:
https://www.meltontackle.com/tiburon-universal-rod-reel-clamp-kits.html
no stock clamp on 27.
Yeah. One a those Porthos posted would work. My thinking is that the reel(mine's spooled with #20lb. Maxima) shouldn't need a clamp, though I do gotta lanyard—-but that's for the reel+rod.
Here's mine, plus the original schematic(got mine in the box, including tool and Daiwa branded oil). Sometimes wonder about who musta been the the Japanese to English translators back in the day... "MULTI PLYING REEL"😜. A bit late in the game, but maybe you can use it.
A slightly different opinion on the clamp:
A clamp like that Tiburon Universal is useful if you are using a rod that is cork taped or cord wrapped and does not have a reel seat. It is effectively acting as a reel seat, but not providing additional support.
With a rod with a reel seat, this will just get in the way of the hoods.
The most useful clamp attaches at the frame away from and separate to the foot. This helps prevent the reel from twisting under load when the line is at one side of the reel. A clamp that attaches to a foot that is attached to the frame only minimally helps the reel from being levered forward. The foot to frame attachment is still the point of failure.
I personally wouldn't bother with a clamp for this reel if the rod has a reel seat.
About carbon fiber drag washers: The weave alone is incredibly weak. Tabs and keys in washer will only hold when the weave is bound in resin. Even a round/round washer made entirely of weave will get pulled apart. Think about how weak your rod blank would be with all fiber and no resin. Drag washers are just a flat sheet of multiple layers of weave in (hopefully heat resistant) resin, with the outside of the last layer on each side left resin free.
Hope this helps,
-J
Quote from: thorhammer on April 06, 2022, 08:00:24 PMI sent a note to Alan C yesterday to see what he thought about making some offset blades to fit these reels, similar to the ones he just came out with for the Penn's. I'm in for at least a half dozen out of the gate if he does it- I know a lot of us have the small Daiwas, and I bet NONE of us like the toy handle. I know I have 11 reels without thinking hard that need this upgrade.
Keep the community updated on the handle issue. The handle on the 30h/27H is simply rediculous lol.
Count me in for a couple. :)
I would not use a rod clamp. I like to palm a reel of this size with my hand.
Keith
Yeah, the 27 diameter isnt much different from an Ambassaduer 4/5/6 size.