So I'm board and looking at all these Tiburon "turbo kits" to modify Ole School Peen reels.
I'm looking at the Squidder or Jigmaster but I'm not limited to those.
If you were to turbo an old Penn for 20-40 class fish, fly lining/yo-yo/surface iron, which would you choose?
Do Both ! :d
And add Cortez Side plates . Aluminum Spool,All Stainless Guts .Power Handle .
Was just reading the Albacore Penn 99 reel thread.
No I have to go research that.
God I Love this Hobby!
Jigmaster is a good place to start. Pure simplicity and plenty of strength with loads of aftermarket support. Jigmasters have bigger gears and drags than the Squidders. That's my two cents wort of advice.
-Mike
Quote from: Crab Pot on September 09, 2022, 11:59:53 PMWas just reading the Albacore Penn 99 reel thread.
No I have to go research that.
God I Love this Hobby!
And He Is Off
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/z4p41aglvNNLi/giphy.webp?cid=ecf05e47z5u01rgybsin5skhhmcmq0m2eygqqniphs1giq8h&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g)
I like the 501 with a 99 A very close 2nd. So many parts available
The Penn 113h I highly recommend
There are sooooo many good choices nowadays. What it boils down to is how it looks to you and how long that look will last. The insides are the easy part.
My.02 is: stay narrow, my friend. 8)
20-40# fish? A 501 or 99 will get it done all day long!
Forget a Squidder for yo-yo or surface iron... way to,slow. Actually, I'd prefer to consign them to the dustbin of history!
Agree, the Penn Jigmaster 501. You maybe can get 5:1 gears for one and there are alota diffrent mods avalible for the Jiggy's.
Quote from: MarkT on September 10, 2022, 04:33:48 AM20-40# fish? A 501 or 99 will get it done all day long!
Forget a Squidder for yo-yo or surface iron... way to,slow. Actually, I'd prefer to consign them to the dustbin of history!
Cheers !! :d
The Jigmaster is called a Jigmaster for a reason. If you could find a narrow 3/0 kit (not likely,) I might recommend that as it will be even faster than the Jigmaster, but you certainly can get it done with the smaller reel, and it is easier to cast.
The Man
As you might have guessed, I'm a Squidder fanboy. I've "chopped" two 140 Squidders down into 146 size with the aftermarket parts we have via members here which are all top notch. For aesthetic reasons I went with the Pro Challenger spacer bars in lieu of a Tiburon frame. Tom at Cortez just put out custom machined reel stands/bases and I swapped out a narrow stand for the stock 30-49. I figure that in the narrow configuration and with the beefed up spacer bars replacing stock I shouldn't have any problems at the top end of the reel's drag if something big bites.
I found some new old stock stainless steel main gears so I'm comfortable that it'll hold up to Bryan's 5+1 drag upgrade and a stainless sleeve.
All of this is to say that sometimes I just can't leave well enough alone. ^-^ I probably could have saved a few bucks and bought Avets but there's a part of me that still wants to fish these old Penns that my grandfather fished with.
Quote from: Squidder Bidder on September 11, 2022, 02:13:51 PMAll of this is to say that sometimes I just can't leave well enough alone. ^-^ I probably could have saved a few bucks and bought Avets but there's a part of me that still wants to fish these old Penns that my grandfather fished with.
That was my motivation as well. Except for me it was the reels my Dad and I used.
On my last San Diego trip my friend Joe had a hot rodded Squidder that was handling the Yellowtail just fine. However after the suggestions above I think I'll be looking for a 505HS.
Anyone have one for sale? ;)
Quote from: Crab Pot on September 11, 2022, 03:49:47 PMQuote from: Squidder Bidder on September 11, 2022, 02:13:51 PMAll of this is to say that sometimes I just can't leave well enough alone. ^-^ I probably could have saved a few bucks and bought Avets but there's a part of me that still wants to fish these old Penns that my grandfather fished with.
That was my motivation as well. Except for me it was the reels my Dad and I used.
On my last San Diego trip my friend Joe had a hot rodded Squidder that was handling the Yellowtail just fine. However after the suggestions above I think I'll be looking for a 505HS.
Anyone have one for sale? ;)
That's what describe as the "Ship of Theseus" problem with hot rodding these older reels - is it still a Penn reel with aftermarket frame, side plates, bridge, gear set, etc?
I like the old school side plates.
They'll stay on.
Bone stock Penn reels have produced more IGFA world records than all other reels combined.
Aftermarket conversions are still a Penn reel in my mind. They are based on the same basic design from Otto Henze, the founder of Penn reels.
"If you want my Penn 99 you'll hafta pry it from my cold dead hands"
Thanks to Tom, Randy, and Ted —-
I have a few to build out right now —- just haven't had the spare time. (4) different colored Jigmasters with Tom's sideplates, one of Tom's dark blue custom Squidders, and a 20/0 from Randy & Tom with custom sideplates, frame, spool, and more.
However, if there was one reel I deemed very worthwhile to upgrade without breaking the bank —- it would be a Jigmaster that has been 99'd.
This would be the size between a 500 and a 501, 99 aluminum spool, 1:4 gears, quick take-apart, 5 stack CF's with SS discs and Cal's greased, a Tib frame, power crank, an SS sleeve, and Newell Delrin speed bearings, CF or Delrin under-gear washer.
These are serious "fishers" —- and I have done hundreds of these for folks when I was doing Conventionals. Mostly for knowing anglers fishing SoCal offshore or Mexico long-rangers.
These are about the most economical and dependable reels for offshore fishing. Set up like this, they will handle most anything.
Stock plates, and mostly stock guts except for the gear sleeve.
$350 to $500 can be spent on a Jigmaster custom upgrade —- but all that is really needed is the above description.
This is a basic upgrade without losing the nostalgia and history of a stock Penn.
Best, Fred
I have (and love) that exact reel with the exception of 5:1 Newell gears and a 5 stack drag. I have caught a bunch of yellowtail on that reel and a few different rods. With braid, the 501 might make more sense, but I have found that 300 yards of braid topped with the rest of a 99 spool of 40# mono lasts a long time on a trip, and is just a nice thing to use.
The Man
Depends on what you will do with it as to what capability you are looking to get. Casting for distance I'd say a Cortez Classic 501...5:1 SS gears etc., will give plenty of power and speed, and I like Tom's cut down chassis for slinging- it's almost Squidder diameter but twice as fast and powerful. That said I have some matched sets fully rodded from Squidder to 9/0, and tho I don't use the electric 9/0 (one of a kind) it's in the top few of favorite reels. Bottom bouncing, prolly 113H.
JohnIMG_1584.JPGted stand 1.JPGshelf 1.JPGold phone 396.JPG
For casting I'd go with a 501N, 501 or 99 width 500. For bottom fish a 113HN or better still a 349H. Parts for the 349 will be harder to find though.
Thorhammer, how in the world can you watch TV with all that underneath it? ;D
You must have "lizard eyes"!
Quote from: Shellbelly on September 12, 2022, 04:58:23 PMThorhammer, how in the world can you watch TV with all that underneath it? ;D
You must have "lizard eyes"!
First count I got 111 or 112 but second count got only 105 Reels
(https://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=116290;image)
Now I got LIZZARD EYES
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/WEBP_402378-T2/images/I/51jw8BEaG7L._AC_SL1000_.jpg)
That's funny...not sure, I've added some since that pic, but I think there were about 120 on there at one point. That's the shop shelf, so mostly my beer thieving neighbors in the recliner watching a fishing show or Letterkenny while I'm on the bench fixing crap; if they can't focus it's on them :d
99 sized is a good route to go, especially if you want room to cast all mono. The high speed (505/506) is not as strong as the standard, but you will have the same issue if you put high speed gears in a 509/501.
Going to a narrow kit decreases the spool diameter to width ratio to something less optimal for casting. Going down to a 99 width is not a big deal, but going more narrow than that starts to move the reel to be more optimized for dropping vs. casting.
A couple things to consider if going the full kit route:
The fundamental weak point for these reels is the relatively thin post peened to the bridge plate that supports the gear sleeve, which is essentially the shaft for the main gear. Under sufficient load, the post/shaft will get angled out of alignment resulting in a dog or gear failure, most often when winding. The customizations do not improve this risk in any substantial way, and some increase the risk - such as higher gear ratios(resulting in shallower gear teeth), and longer handle arms.
While the customizations do improve the ability to support somewhat higher drag settings, the improvements for winding under load are more minimal, mostly preventing the handle from rounding off the top of the gear sleeve. Going to a "magnum" style kit gets you the bride plate/larger gear post of the next model up in size, but it will also affect the gear ratios available, The kits with ball bearings for the spindle cast very well.
Occasionally, folks who have built out these reels have been disappointed. Not because the reels were not a nice chunk of good looking, well made machinery, but because they had expected more performance for the investment. The smaller the reel, the more that these issues tend to pop up. Once you get up to the 113H, you get you get a pretty large gear sleeve post and a pretty robust platform, but is also a bit large reel for casting, and you can get a pretty decent modern two speed for the same price or less than a full kitted 113H for trolling/dropping/live baiting.
These custom kitted reels also tend to be a bit more on the high maintenance side, due to the increased corrosion potential, primarily from the stainless screws and internal parts contacting the aluminum sideplates.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with hot rodding up an old Penn reel. And as long as you know that you are building a hot rod, you may find this a worthwhile experience. For many people, hotrodding a'57 Chevy is a worthwhile experience. But in the end, it is still a '57 Chevy, and not a Ferrari, an F150, or for that matter, even a Honda Civic. Which is not a problem if you wanted to build out a 57 Chevy, and not trying to turn it into something that it is not.
Not trying to talk anybody out of this. More of a an alternate view for some of our newer members. Pretty clear that the OP understands the point of this exercise.
Lots of threads on the technical issues I mentioned, but if there is a specific question or challenge on any point, feel free to respond.
-J
Dave that was an excellent post.
The 505-506 isn't as strong huh? Is that just the shallower teeth or some other structural aspect? (Separate from the bearings vs bushings thing) as a new owner of a 506, I'm very curious.
The only thing I've heard on the HS Jigmasters; is that the smaller main gear teeth COULD strip. Anyone with experience of this ?
Everything you noted Dave is true based on my experience and limited thinking, with about 7 modded Penn conventionals, that I have. Your technical realism knows no bounds, even if it WRECKS EVERYTHING for me! Ha! kiddin dude🤪. Good stuff. After a possible mod to the bridge plate, with a fatter gear sleeve stud/sleeve, what would be the next weak link in one of these? The dogs?
Thanks for the kind words guys. I typed up two replies prior and deleted because I did not want to poop on the well loved and very high quality custom parts out there. Some of you folks have my minor contribution of stainless stars that I made for awhile. I just want to keep the facts straight on the potential performance.
I still think now and then about putting my old 505 Accurate kit back together. It was such a joy to cast. The new kits are probably even nicer.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 12, 2022, 08:48:05 PMDave that was an excellent post.
The 505-506 isn't as strong huh? Is that just the shallower teeth or some other structural aspect? (Separate from the bearings vs bushings thing) as a new owner of a 506, I'm very curious.
Yep, just the teeth. That is it. To change gear ratio you have to change the pitch circle ratio. Penn squeezed out a tiny bit more center distance on the bridge (all that they could fit in the same sideplate diameter). But not enough. So the pinion has to get smaller. But since the pinion has a big hole in the center for the spindle, no room to make a smaller pinion with the same tooth size. Shrinking the tooth size bought them enough space to grow/shrink the main/pinion pitch circles to claim something sort of close to 5:1.
It is not that small teeth can't be strong enough, it is just that load gets transferred to the tooth corners sooner than with big teeth when the shafts get out of alignment.
If you get a 500/501 and put high speed gears on it you will have the same problem. While switching to harder materials helps a little, it doesn't compensate enough for running a gear on the corner of its teeth.
Quote from: Gfish on September 12, 2022, 09:13:53 PMThe only thing I've heard on the HS Jigmasters; is that the smaller main gear teeth COULD strip. Anyone with experience of this ?
Uh... me. Little bits of bronze on the bottom in a couple spots in Baja. :).
To be fair, I ran a clean dry stack for max friction and tightened the drag with a pair of pliers - that is what we did back in the day for yellowtail on a jigmaster.
The standard Jigmaster was a solid reel fished within it's intended limits. But I have heard as well that the HS model did have a bit of a reputation for gear wear.
QuoteEverything you noted Dave is true based on my experience and limited thinking, with about 7 modded Penn conventionals, that I have. Your technical realism knows no bounds, even if it WRECKS EVERYTHING for me! Ha! kiddin dude🤪. Good stuff. After a possible mod to the bridge plate, with a fatter gear sleeve stud/sleeve, what would be the next weak link in one of these? The dogs?
I discussed this with Sal for a bit. IMHO, not enough room to fatten the post diameter much, and it still ends up peened on one side to a thin bridge plate. Sal tried to make a spacer with a minimal gap on ID and OD that sort of acted like a bearing. I have a reel that he did for me that way. Problem is that the sideplate hole has to act as a bearing surface, And it is not shaped properly. Sal could get close enough that he though it helped, but each reel was an individual, time consuming effort, and testing is destructive.
My take is that you need to support both ends of a strong main shaft, which means replacing the sleeve/post with a solid shaft with bearings (plain and/or ball) on the bridge and sideplate. Which means a new bridge and a new sideplate as well. The ratchet could now be larger and the dog shaft is a screw that goes from the sideplate to the bridge - not a post peened into the bridge plate. Combined with all the other parts, we have basically put a 500 spool on a new reel. But no longer staying within the goal of seeing how far we can take a Penn reel, and if we really want something pretty close to that design, just buy a soulless Shimano TLD star on the auction site. Used to be able to get them used for about 30 $USD before Alan stared talking them up :)
I have tried to drum up some interest in harnessing our collective skills to design and build our own simpler/better reel, but so far no interest.
-J
That explosion you heard, if you live close to Citrus Heights, was my head.
I will have to reread Dave's post a couple dozen times to wrap my head around half of it being the less-than-novice I am.
Back to the 99 or 505...I think I'll get one of each. :d
Quote from: Crab Pot on September 17, 2022, 12:00:21 AMThat explosion you heard, if you live close to Citrus Heights, was my head.
...and all the jigmasters that have been modded beyond their limits. The technical assessments in this thread "speak without saying" and quite respectfully so. Delicate subject, but paper covers rock...iffn you knows what I mean.
Quote from: Crab Pot on September 17, 2022, 12:00:21 AMI will have to reread Dave's post a couple dozen times
I did...along with some other in-depth discussions. I have to admit that my last post is a bit of a cop-out on the problem.
What I noticed is what wasn't being discussed in what I read so please hear me out. We are talking about stability under stress, right? The mods are pushing the stress points to another spot with each improvement, solving one problem and finding another.
I have yet to see a role the yoke might play in possible improvements regarding pinion alignment. The yoke-jack-eccentric assembly is arguably the "sloppiest" moving assembly in a Penn reel. If the yoke could be modified to a little tighter tolerance within the pinion channel, would this make any relevant improvement?
The yoke... Yeah, never thought a that one.
I'd be interested in "harnessing our collective skills to design and build our own simpler/better reel".
But, like I said Dave, my thinking is limited. Usually I can id. a weakness and that's where it ends. I did try Sal's roller bearing-drag spacer idea for a 113H, but didn't have the skills to do anything other than put a hole in the side-plate to make it fit. I now have a drag spacer that rusts and prolly doesn't provide any real lateral support.
Never tweaked a reel on a fish though, I'm too darned careful and interested in seeing the critter. Takes patience sometimes.
In honor of Sal and his contributions, a "simpler/better reel" would be pretty cool thing.
Quote from: Shellbelly on September 17, 2022, 06:30:23 AMQuote from: Crab Pot on September 17, 2022, 12:00:21 AMI will have to reread Dave's post a couple dozen times
I did...along with some other in-depth discussions. I have to admit that my last post is a bit of a cop-out on the problem.
What I noticed is what wasn't being discussed in what I read so please hear me out. We are talking about stability under stress, right? The mods are pushing the stress points to another spot with each improvement, solving one problem and finding another.
I have yet to see a role the yoke might play in possible improvements regarding pinion alignment. The yoke-jack-eccentric assembly is arguably the "sloppiest" moving assembly in a Penn reel. If the yoke could be modified to a little tighter tolerance within the pinion channel, would this make any relevant improvement?
The pinion shaft is supported on both ends, so the bulk of the misalignment is coming from the gear post getting levered out. That small clearance in the pinion (like a loose fitting bushing) and the length of the pinion (one of the reasons why it is so long) means that a properly fitted pinion doesn't angle very much. So it seems unlikely that there would be much improvement without addressing the gear sleeve issue first.
Some reels put the pinion on an independent shaft, but that means that the pinion support is not as strong.
[correction - of course the yoke presses on the pinion- that is what makes the pinion tight to the spindle- See Mike's post below - aagrh- Looks like I am not so smart after all :) ]
The yoke is supposed to not touch the pinion when in gear, so that it does not affect smoothness and add friction when winding. Theoretically, an entirely different eccentric system could be designed so that the yoke could provide radial support to the pinion from the outside. It is an interesting idea. But first you would have to have a well supported yoke that could still travel toward and away from the spool. And then you would need join it with the pinion with a bearing or two.
I can't immediately think of a way to do this that is not complicated, expensive and bulky, so I am not sure if there would be enough bang for the buck. And there wouldn't be too many stock parts left,
Thanks for posting this. I like it when folks think out of the box a bit.
-J
Quote from: Shellbelly on September 17, 2022, 06:30:23 AMI have yet to see a role the yoke might play in possible improvements regarding pinion alignment. The yoke-jack-eccentric assembly is arguably the "sloppiest" moving assembly in a Penn reel. If the yoke could be modified to a little tighter tolerance within the pinion channel, would this make any relevant improvement?
This got discussed a little bit but I don't remember which topic it's in...possibly in a thread about 'free-spool'. The conversation was about how some of our custom hotrods don't free-spool as well as we think they should. Sal contributed his techniques for polishing the spool shafts and pinion bore as well as removing excess oil or grease from the shaft...which helps greatly.
I've made an observation that I call 'pinion tilt' which may be addressed by what you're saying about an improved yoke. But first let me digress to pinion tilt. The original 500 with bushings has a counter-bore on the outboard end of the pinion gear that fits neatly over the tip of the bushing. This keeps the pinion nicely aligned and centered on the spool shaft while in free-spool even though the eccentric jack and yoke are not perfectly square to the shaft. This is why you can get real good free-spool from a stock 500 without bearings.
Now look at custom side plates with bearings. The pinions still have the counter-bore but there's nothing to support the pinion on the outboard end so the pinion gear will tilt with the yoke and lightly contact the spool shaft witch will cause friction and slow the rotation. You can spend hours tweaking and tuning your eccentric jack and yoke but you can't really ever eliminate the pinion tilt. I don't think this really detracts from performance unless you plan on casting pinhead anchovies. I only noticed it because of my troubleshooting routines. When building from scratch, I'll assemble a frame and spool without the bridge and gears, then I give it a few good spins and count the free-spool time. I also listen to the bearings and for any spool to frame contact. This way I can address those issues without guessing. Next, I install the drive-train and check it for fit and function, then give the spool some timed spins. Sal and I discussed this at length and decided that it was as good as it gets.
I think there's merit to what you are saying about the yoke. We first started using stainless yokes when we started using stainless gear-sets which were eating the yokes. A slightly thicker yoke would likely keep the pinion better squared up to the spool shaft and a little friction there would likely break-in and co away with use. The questions that need answering are; what is the manufacturing tolerance of the yoke groove in the pinion gears...and will it really add usable performance?
Jigmasters were designed to chuck iron so I'm not certain that little drag of the pinion on the shaft really matter except for when we're bragging about how much free-spool we've tuned into a reel.
Well, that my two cents worth anyway...
-Mike
Quote from: PacRat on September 17, 2022, 09:09:33 PMI've made an observation that I call 'pinion tilt' which may be addressed by what you're saying about an improved yoke. But first let me digress to pinion tilt. The original 500 with bushings has a counter-bore on the outboard end of the pinion gear that fits neatly over the tip of the bushing. This keeps the pinion nicely aligned and centered on the spool shaft while in free-spool even though the eccentric jack and yoke are not perfectly square to the shaft. This is why you can get real good free-spool from a stock 500 without bearings.
Now look at custom side plates with bearings. The pinions still have the counter-bore but there's nothing to support the pinion on the outboard end so the pinion gear will tilt with the yoke and lightly contact the spool shaft witch will cause friction and slow the rotation. You can spend hours tweaking and tuning your eccentric jack and yoke but you can't really ever eliminate the pinion tilt.
I agree Mike - I think the squidder 13-140 pinion would be a better option for jigmasters with after market plates and bearings, if you're using a stock main gear. It's basically the same pinion without the bored recess for the bushing that would contact the shaft over the full length.
I brought it up a while ago but it didn't generate much interest squidder and jigmaster pinions (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20588.0)
Mike
the 113h platform with the tons of aftermarket parts.
you can bet I love my 113HXN Tiburon xtra narrow kit
looks way narrower than another favorite reel, the Baja Special which is also modified
I am really enjoying this blog. I just did a bunch of upgrades on a 140 squidder I got in a garage sale. I turned it into a 146 with bridges, aluminum spool, stainless gear sleeve, and Bryan Young's 5+1 drag upgrade and a fine thread star adjuster. I'm not looking for more drag, just finer adjustment. One thing I noticed when I took this reel apart initially is that the bridge and main gear are chromed or plated. Also the quality of the chroming on the reel in general seems to be done to a higher standard than what I am accustomed to. This is an old reel from the research I have been able to do on this site. Squidder is written straight on the side plate, old style dog spring, etc. Are the plated parts common? I haven't seen them in my fairly limited experience.IMG_5357.jpegIMG_5339.jpeg
Plated parts were common in the older reels. You might check your bridge with a magnet. I've found some 500's with stainless steel bridges. Bill
Thanks Bill, I really appreciate the information. I like this reel. I think it will be great for jigging striped bass and bluefish as well as bottom fishing.
John
The explanations and examinations of our reel builds make for great info.
But I have to say that I fished the original Penn jigmasters, squidders and later the 113h hard before I learned how to back off the drags and learn how to fish. It is well nigh impossible to break the darn things unless you abuse them. Add a Cortez Conversion bridge to a Baja and you are close to foolproof.
So my opinion is for the original poster. Build it for the joy and enjoyment of having great looking, tough reels that are better than when new. There is something gratifying about fishing the old dogs and knowing you built it. Your confidence in your reels will be boundless and so what if you run into a monster? If it breaks you can fix it again. You belong to the Ohana and that's why we are here.
I agree. The old Penns are in a class by themselves in terms of durability, in my opinion. My first conventional, a 200 surfmaster, caught everything from striped bass to bluefin tuna to nine foot hammerhead sharks, no maintenance except squirting Penn oil into the little oil ports once a year.Never even rinsed it off.When it finally broke after twenty years I sent it back to Penn with a note "Please fix this reel if possible, I am not concerned how much it cost. It has caught a lot of big fish for me." I got the reel back a couple of weeks later, I don't even know what they changed inside, but also a new aluminum spool and a new handle. No charge!!! Now that's class!!!! I still have it, retired it a couple years ago after almost 50 years catching fish.
Quote from: Rancanfish on March 20, 2023, 06:03:55 AMThe explanations and examinations of our reel builds make for great info.
But I have to say that I fished the original Penn jigmasters, squidders and later the 113h hard before I learned how to back off the drags and learn how to fish. It is well nigh impossible to break the darn things unless you abuse them. Add a Cortez Conversion bridge to a Baja and you are close to foolproof.
So my opinion is for the original poster. Build it for the joy and enjoyment of having great looking, tough reels that are better than when new. There is something gratifying about fishing the old dogs and knowing you built it. Your confidence in your reels will be boundless and so what if you run into a monster? If it breaks you can fix it again. You belong to the Ohana and that's why we are here.
\
Randy nailed it right there.
Quote from: Rancanfish on March 20, 2023, 06:03:55 AMI learned how to back off the drags and learn how to fish.
....And that is when the fun shows up in catching fish. If I have to take vise grips for drag adjustments, I'm not having fun. That's like taking a knife to a gunfight.
Quote from: Crab Pot on September 09, 2022, 11:47:30 PMSo I'm board and looking at all these Tiburon "turbo kits" to modify Ole School Peen reels.
I'm looking at the Squidder or Jigmaster but I'm not limited to those.
If you were to turbo an old Penn for 20-40 class fish, fly lining/yo-yo/surface iron, which would you choose?
If it were me, I would do (3) —- this would cover a lot of scenarios.
Jigmaster 500
Squidder 145
Senator 113H
Aluminum frames, upgraded CF & SS drag stacks, SS Sleeves, Power Handles, Aluminum Spools, rod clamps.
You could do a lot more —- but it's really not necessary.
Best, Fred
In my humble opinion, most of them are worth modifying (depending on how you want to take it; small things such as drags for instance I'd do on basically any of them I want to try using) but to be more specific, reels like the Surfmasters, Jigmasters, and 113H (Most senator's are deserving but the 4/0 and 6/0 are in a really nice spot strength/size wise). I've personally been messing with a Surfmaster 100 which I may show around sometime soon (Haven't done much outside of minor polishing and star/drag changes but it's my baby) and consider it to be a very nice candidate! Good size, parts are pretty common and with some mods (Gear sleeve, drags, and maybe a handle upgrade) it can be a lot of fun as long as you dont need a fast line retrieve
How about this conventional line up, at short money, for just about anything that swims
1 Surfie or Squidder
2 the 49
3 116a 10/0
Either of the casters for just about anything in the bay including the biggest stripers and have historically taken much larger with a skilled angler who knows how to manage their drag settings. Penn has commented here that the majority of the returned failures are reels with line strength way over the design limits of the reel and arriving for service, usually stripped gears, and the drags tightened to the max.
The 49's are still pretty much a dime a dozen, Handi pointed out to me once the 349 is a superior design, no argument there. In the 1950's Penn widened the 49 for the South Africans who were taking medium tuna casting off the cliffs down there. In those days the 114H didn't exist and the 114 was too slow of a retrieve. The 49A (Africa) was born, sort of the 1.0 version of the later 114H. They took lots of tuna with the rig. For a not much money troller today tough to beat, all I do to modify is switch to carbontex. Wire or leadline for stripers in the rips, braid for offshore.
When Otto went to Wedgeport he took a 12/0 (Gen one), back in the days of linen line a wider spool was needed, today with the skinny braids the narrower spooled 10/0 has more than enough yardage capacity to land about anything. Upgrade to a 5 stack HT-100 as the older reels came as the thick 3 stack.
Better reels out there to do it all no doubt, this is just my idea of a low buck kit that has worked for generations, they can all be souped to a reasonable degree. The American 113 & 114 series were tough to pass over, just a matter of acquisition cost. For the cost of souping a 49 the initial cost of the Senators might well be the better initial choice.
Otto.jpeg
A painting of Otto from a photo of him fighting a tuna with a prototype 12/0, Still in the Henze family
That's a cool painting. There's a fella locally with 2 349 reels for a good price. If I didn't already have more tackle than I can manage I'd be jumping on them.
Quote from: Cuttyhunker on April 01, 2023, 01:18:18 PM349 is a superior design, no argument there.
Agreed, but which version do most anglers prefer...H or HC? Is the AR switch necessary these days?
On the 49 I "lock out" the AR eccentric lever by tying it off with some light twine to the closest cross post, especially if I have inexperienced guests fishing on the boat to avoid knuckle buster syndrome. Neat enough and works fine.
I recently saw a Penn 180 hotrod with most of the goodies. I wonder if I can do the same to my penn surfmaster 200 mutant? ::)
Quote from: Surfrat on April 05, 2023, 09:26:19 PMI recently saw a Penn 180 hotrod with most of the goodies. I wonder if I can do the same to my penn surfmaster 200 mutant? ::)
yes, and the 200 has bigger, stronger gears- older ones had steel.
Quote from: thorhammer on April 06, 2023, 01:35:15 PMQuote from: Surfrat on April 05, 2023, 09:26:19 PMI recently saw a Penn 180 hotrod with most of the goodies. I wonder if I can do the same to my penn surfmaster 200 mutant? ::)
yes, and the 200 has bigger, stronger gears- older ones had steel.
I found a bag with a pair of small steel gears with no label in Keith's bin of vintage penn parts. Maybe that's what they're for. Hmmmm..... Dang it i gotta shut this idea down before i get excited, i can't add
another project to the queue til i start tackling some that are already there.
Hmmmm.... Too late.
So, I swore the next time, a 146 showed up!
That I would run right out and buy it, because I missed the last one!
I now see, why everyone loves these 146's so much, it's slightly smaller than a Penn Power 970, and not really that much bigger than an Abu 5500 size wise!
But surely feels solid, like a little tank!
Also happened to grab its bigger brother, the 140L! I should've picked up the other Surfmaster 200 that was there! I decided against it unfortunately, but looking back on what I went through on the trip, I should've grab that one too!
I literally drove an hour to get these yesterday! My truck was even breaking down, after I was just about, there!
All the gauges were normal, except for the one blinking, service engine soon, over and over, so continued to drive slowly to get them, because I was literally five minutes away, and the truck was only misfiring!
I didn't want to turn the truck off, but couldn't accelerate over 30 miles an hour and still made it back home somehow, Lol!
Still not sure about my truck, but it is misfiring like a mother *#*#*#*!!!
I honestly, was going to turn around, when I was just on the way there, but noooo!
Then five minutes into the trip, I actually saw somebody's car on fire, in the middle of the road smoke everywhere! It looked like everybody was OK, with the state police being there, so I continued on!
Oh, the silly stuff, we do for Fishing Gear
Anyway, here's my little grab from yesterday! And I am strongly thinking about doing some thing with the 146!!!
So, I would love to hear some ideas for upgrades and improvements, before, and after I tear it down!!
As always many thanks in advance!
EA
So there have been some updates to my thread since, as far as it pertains to me, on the direction I'm going.
Like to thank everyone for the detailed, and I mean detailed, thoughts and opinions.
So far... I have purchased:
146 Squidder with Accuframe
Jigmaster 500 with Tiburon frame
Jigmater 506HS, stock, which I have done a lot of work to including a Tiburon P21 frame with internal upgrades.
I put Alan's Pro Challenger star drags, arms and knobs on the Jigmasters, and the 506HS already had a Cortez Conversion main gear sleeve.
I'll still take my Avet's on my August trip but the above are going to be my workhorses till they aren't.
Still looking to get a Model 99 to modify.
:D
NICE!
EA, I might put that 146 onna shelf- really nice ones with older red plates aren't all that common.
Note, the 970 and 146 aren't remotely in the same league other than dimensionally. I think we may have discussed. 970 has gears about two sizes larger and 6 hole stand with bars rather than 4 hole and posts, plus the beefier beauty rings, sleeve and handle, let alone magged. The 970 was one of Sal's fav's as well as mine, and I think Lannie has one as well (maybe built by Sal). Sal had a stash of them...
The 146 was a premier sheepshead reel down here for ages.
Quote from: Crab Pot on July 05, 2023, 01:18:12 AMSo there have been some updates to my thread since, as far as it pertains to me, on the direction I'm going.
Like to thank everyone for the detailed, and I mean detailed, thoughts and opinions.
So far... I have purchased:
146 Squidder with Accuframe
Jigmaster 500 with Tiburon frame
Jigmater 506HS, stock, which I have done a lot of work to including a Tiburon P21 frame with internal upgrades.
I put Alan's Pro Challenger star drags, arms and knobs on the Jigmasters, and the 506HS already had a Cortez Conversion main gear sleeve.
I'll still take my Avet's on my August trip but the above are going to be my workhorses till they aren't.
Still looking to get a Model 99 to modify.
:D
Those, look like they're ready for business and are very pretty my friend!
Hopefully, you don't mind me, riding on your coattails a little bit, on some of your threads brother!
Definitely been a huge help to me, in gaining some much-needed knowledge!
So, Thank You!
Really, digging that Jiggy 506 HS though!
Not sure, if it's the picture or not, but it sure looks a lot bigger than the jigmaster to the left of it!
ThorHammer,
Now I have to go look up a 970... ;)
Quote from: ExcessiveAngler on July 19, 2023, 06:45:47 PMNot sure, if it's the picture or not, but it sure looks a lot bigger than the jigmaster to the left of it!
It's the angle, the 500 is much larger.
Thanks for the kind words but I'm a novice, I just follow directions well given to me by the good folks here.
Quote from: thorhammer on July 19, 2023, 04:38:55 PMNICE!
EA, I might put that 146 onna shelf- really nice ones with older red plates aren't all that common.
Note, the 970 and 146 aren't remotely in the same league other than dimensionally. I think we may have discussed. 970 has gears about two sizes larger and 6 hole stand with bars rather than 4 hole and posts, plus the beefier beauty rings, sleeve and handle, let alone magged. The 970 was one of Sal's fav's as well as mine, and I think Lannie has one as well (maybe built by Sal). Sal had a stash of them...
The 146 was a premier sheepshead reel down here for ages.
Well, unfortunately John, there is no shelf here! I have a pretty nice 970 and a 980, in my bedroom, one on each side, of my tv lol!
Does that count lol! I got your point!
Other than that most of them are displayed in my garage, spread across my workbench or on the wall on a rod lol!
Yeah, I wanted to build a blue 146 Cortez conversion in the worst way lol!
Like I said, jumped the gun again lol!
I thought the squidder's were going to be a good candidate for a small, heavy duty reel!
Then, had full intentions to mono Mag it!
Both of those squidder's I picked up, have stripped gear sleeves on both of them, and the 140, has bent frame post and bent frame rings! I overlooked this, because I was in a rush, because my truck was breaking down!
One thing, the mag 970s don't have, is a full frame, nice easy screws, for servicing, and it's a PITA, to get the side plates off! Also, aren't there some seals in the Cortez conversion kits as well?
Build your 146 Cortez and move the rings to your 140. Needing the rings is a great excuse to buy a Cortez kit. Problem solved :d
Quote from: Crab Pot on July 19, 2023, 10:29:41 PMThorHammer,
Now I have to go look up a 970... ;)
Quote from: ExcessiveAngler on July 19, 2023, 06:45:47 PMNot sure, if it's the picture or not, but it sure looks a lot bigger than the jigmaster to the left of it!
It's the angle, the 500 is much larger.
Thanks for the kind words but I'm a novice, I just follow directions well given to me by the good folks here.
So, did you have yourself a little peek, at the mag power reels yet?
Quote from: ExcessiveAngler on July 22, 2023, 04:38:55 PMSo, did you have yourself a little peek, at the mag power reels yet?
Not too much EA.
From what I read on the 970 it's pretty much a Jigmaster, again I haven't dove into it yet.
I'm tuning up my reels and gear for my 4 day out of San Diego the end of next month.
I have
WAY TOO MANY LURES & JIGS and deciding which to bring and which to leave keeps me up at night!
A 970 and a jig master 501 are about the same size but the similarities pretty much end there. 970 is much more robust
Longbeach-5 stack with factory parts. Punch of a senator without the price. Put many monster snook on ramp