torium 50 and trinidad 40/50 dog and spring upgrade
we've been upgrading trinidad and torium 16's, 20's and 30's for quite a while. great reels. you all know the mantra. grease on all the screws, grease on all the non-exposed metal surfaces, spool bearings opened, cleaned and lubed with tsi 301, non-spool beaings packed with grease, carbontex drag upgrgades with cal's grease, a drop in upgrade to to the trinidad DC pawl (TGT 1303) and pawl spring (TGT 1304), and a oversized handle grip. we have also been upgrading the trinidad and torium 40's and 50's in the same way. the dog and spring upgrade is just a little different, so i thought i's better go over it.
if you want to do the upgrade the same way we do, then start by googling tsi 301 and then order some directly from the company. then order up a carbontex drag set and some cal's grease from smoothdrag.com. if you don't want the spend the extra money for the tsi 301, just order a vial of reel x at the same time you are ordering up the drags and grease. then call shimano at 877-577-0600 and order up a single pawl and spring set for the trinidad/torium 16/20/30 or a pair of pawls and springs for the trinidad 40/50. get your tools and do a quick review of the rebuild post http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=45.0 and the schematic for the reel http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/07TOR50_v1_m56577569830641809.pdf
ok, now for the double dog system. here is the bare frame for the torium 50 (key #1105).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_35_51.jpeg)
see that small ridge between the post supporting the pawl and the post for the screw?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_36_20.jpeg)
there are two on both sides.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_36_30.jpeg)
now look at what happens when you lay a pawl spring down on top of the post. yup, it won't lay flat. and if you try to put a pawl on top of it, the pawl will bind.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_36_55.jpeg)
ok, out comes the dremel.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_11.jpeg)
grab your safety goggles and let's get to work.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_21.jpeg)
ok, that was quick and easy. see the cut marks?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_31.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_40.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_51.jpeg)
ok, now for the springs. we are going to have to bend one of them. now, when you get these springs, they will both look like the one on the left. what you have to do with one of the springs is grab the curled tail and open it up until it looks like the one on the right, then cut off the curled tail.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_02.jpeg)
see how the curled tail was cut off the spring on the left?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_12.jpeg)
here is what the unbent spring looks like when it is in place. this is the same for the trinidad/torium 16/20/30's.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_25.jpeg)
here is the spring that is bent open and cut.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_39.jpeg)
lay the pawls in next. note that the end of the spring that is bent "up" lays against the "outside" of the pawl.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_42_56.jpeg)
install the anti-reverse pawl keepers (key# TGT 544) and screws (key# TGT305).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_43_14.jpeg)
install the anti-reverse ratchet (key# TGT448).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_43_31.jpeg)
follow the tutorial on this board or on mine to reassemble the rest of the reel.
just a note. these reels will now be noisy as hell, but you will never have to worry about the handle going knuckle buster on you, even if the anti-reverse roller bearing fails. i just don't have enough confidence in those ambassaduer-style dogs. good hunting, gentlemen!
Thanks Alan, that sure looks a lot more trustworthy
A great little upgrade.
Cheers, Justin.
Thanks Alan for the tutorial.
Btw, in reference to you last two pictures....
I did a spring upgrade on the right side pawl. I was able to get the spring in without dremeling the cut mark. It seems to sit well and it works and clicks and the pawl keeper went in smoothly and sat flat. Did I get lucky? Is the dremel cut for the right side pawl necessary?
Franky, I did the same for my tor50. And that's what I told Alan too, that I did not have to cut/grind anything.
Great tutorial Alan.
yeah, i remember that. not sure what's up with that. you would think that it would be one way or the other. i wanted to get this out before you worked on your reel, but i got hung up on other things. i'm just glad it worked out for you. i just hope you don't have to go back in later and do it over again. :-\
hey alan can you apply this upgrade to the tekota 700/800? from the pics the tekota looks like the levelwind version of the torium. thanks...
not sure. check the schematics and see if any of the part numbers match.
will do, thanks!
Hey guys, I went to the shimano website and looks like they don't have an updated version of the trinidad dc Schematics page. I called in and they said the pawl and pawl springs are in back order. Does anyone know of a third party place to purchase these parts? Also not sure if i have to order two pawls and two springs and another part in order to prevent the anti-reverse problem? Thank you for any input.
- Eddie
i still have a few extra. send me an e-mail after august 3rd to alantani@yahoo.com and i will send a set out to you.
Hey Alan, just did the dog upgrades on my 40N and it's crazy cool!
Just one caveat; for the dog closest to the reel seat. On the 40N there's actually a small casting stud where the upturned "arm" on the spring has to go around before the dog will engage the gear.
I'd take pics but the digi is no bueno.
Thx!
Will
Hey Alan!
Regarding your Trinidad TN50 dog upgrade, I'd like your opinion on this one:
last year I serviced this, the AR bearing was bad so I ordered a new one along with drive shaft & handle bearings, put it back together
and returned it to the owner, he needed it the next day and was supposed to bring it back for the new bearings when they arrived.. the 2 pawls were doing all the work at that point...fast forward 8 months and who knows how many fish (charters), and the reel finally comes back to the shop.... knuckle buster :o
when i opened it up, the drive shaft bearing fell out in pieces, and the tiny c-clip (which i JUST lost ???) along with it.
If i hadn't just lost (yep it's gone) the c-clip I could've fixed it today because..surprise!.. I found the bag of parts that arrived months ago that we couldn't remember what they were for ;D
Now, finally, your upgrade dawns on me... remember I told you about Fiji time ;D
So here's the set plate, with crushed bearing, gouged up area under 1 dog, gouged up bearing cup, and invisible >:( c-clip
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY0508_zps98d68051.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY0508_zps98d68051.jpg.html)
closer view of the bearing cup gouged & out of round.. I'm wondering if the set plate should be replaced
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY0513_zps8f0eb518.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY0513_zps8f0eb518.jpg.html)
under one dog it's clean, under the other all gouged up..
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY0512_zps1df6fa01.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY0512_zps1df6fa01.jpg.html)
Here's the dogs...
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY0510_zps5dcf5347.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY0510_zps5dcf5347.jpg.html)
One dog's ears still have the proper bends, one's has flattened out
(http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q680/fijigreen69/SANY0509_zps80902594.jpg) (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/fijigreen69/media/SANY0509_zps80902594.jpg.html)
What would you do? Would you
(A) order a new set plate? or leave it ? (psst... and a c-clip) ;)
(B) is that c-clip a common enough size i may be able to poach it from a different reel?
(C) re-use the same pawls, order new ones, or do your upgrade...
( i have 2 TGT1304 pawl springs and 1303 DC pawls set aside for a friends torium)
the DC pawls are maybe a 16th" longer, and a hair thicker
Look forward to your advice & in the meantime I'll tinker around with the new pawls and see how they go...
Thanks Alan!
Bula Eric, looks like you need a new sideplate. The shaft opening will not hold the bearing securely. I would also replace the dogs. It's the better thing I do especially since they only cost about $10 for the pair including springs.
Aloha Bryan,
yeah, i was just dinking with it, i have the new bearing but can't get it to seat properly in it's cup..
..even if I had found the disappearing c-clip, :-[ it wouldn't work, the plate is that chewed up.
so, are you referring to replacing the same ambassador dogs as an easy fix? or DC dogs & springs, bending, and dremeling
for the upgrade?
Hmmm, i wonder if a new set plate will be DC spring friendly and not need dremel work?? my dremel got fried by 240 volts ;D
so a quick parts order/change may just be the best thing to do... we'll see
Thanks bro!
Yes, the dc spring and pawl. I have yet to dremel. I think I differs based on year.
Quote from: alantani on February 12, 2012, 06:01:22 AM
torium 50 and trinidad 40/50 dog and spring upgrade
we've been upgrading trinidad and torium 16's, 20's and 30's for quite a while. great reels. you all know the mantra. grease on all the screws, grease on all the non-exposed metal surfaces, spool bearings opened, cleaned and lubed with tsi 301, non-spool beaings packed with grease, carbontex drag upgrgades with cal's grease, a drop in upgrade to to the trinidad DC pawl (TGT 1303) and pawl spring (TGT 1304), and a oversized handle grip. we have also been upgrading the trinidad and torium 40's and 50's in the same way. the dog and spring upgrade is just a little different, so i thought i's better go over it.
if you want to do the upgrade the same way we do, then start by googling tsi 301 and then order some directly from the company. then order up a carbontex drag set and some cal's grease from smoothdrag.com. if you don't want the spend the extra money for the tsi 301, just order a vial of reel x at the same time you are ordering up the drags and grease. then call shimano at 877-577-0600 and order up a single pawl and spring set for the trinidad/torium 16/20/30 or a pair of pawls and springs for the trinidad 40/50. get your tools and do a quick review of the rebuild post http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=45.0 and the schematic for the reel http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/07TOR50_v1_m56577569830641809.pdf
ok, now for the double dog system. here is the bare frame for the torium 50 (key #1105).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_35_51.jpeg)
see that small ridge between the post supporting the pawl and the post for the screw?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_36_20.jpeg)
there are two on both sides.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_36_30.jpeg)
now look at what happens when you lay a pawl spring down on top of the post. yup, it won't lay flat. and if you try to put a pawl on top of it, the pawl will bind.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_36_55.jpeg)
ok, out comes the dremel.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_11.jpeg)
grab your safety goggles and let's get to work.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_21.jpeg)
ok, that was quick and easy. see the cut marks?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_31.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_40.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_37_51.jpeg)
ok, now for the springs. we are going to have to bend one of them. now, when you get these springs, they will both look like the one on the left. what you have to do with one of the springs is grab the curled tail and open it up until it looks like the one on the right, then cut off the curled tail.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_02.jpeg)
see how the curled tail was cut off the spring on the left?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_12.jpeg)
here is what the unbent spring looks like when it is in place. this is the same for the trinidad/torium 16/20/30's.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_25.jpeg)
here is the spring that is bent open and cut.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_38_39.jpeg)
lay the pawls in next. note that the end of the spring that is bent "up" lays against the "outside" of the pawl.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_42_56.jpeg)
install the anti-reverse pawl keepers (key# TGT 544) and screws (key# TGT305).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_43_14.jpeg)
install the anti-reverse ratchet (key# TGT448).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_11_02_12_10_43_31.jpeg)
follow the tutorial on this board or on mine to reassemble the rest of the reel.
just a note. these reels will now be noisy as hell, but you will never have to worry about the handle going knuckle buster on you, even if the anti-reverse roller bearing fails. i just don't have enough confidence in those ambassaduer-style dogs. good hunting, gentlemen!
thanks for the help in getting me the parts from bryan... just checking, you do the exact same steps listed here to the Trinidad 50 right? same parts and same process? a friend of mine wants me to do his trinidad 50's.
Aloha Andrew,
Yes, same process for Toriums and Trinidad's, if necessary. Some reels you don't need to cut down the ridges between the screw posts and AR pawl post. It's test fit before I start cutting. Call or post up any questions with photos if you need help.
Aloha, Bryan
So, I just got a Trinidad 40 and luckily I still had my last two unobtanium DC springs and dogs, so, I said, go for it and switched stock dogs for the clicking dog upgrade, regularly Im good to follow instructions but this time I did a mess with the left side spring for the dog, daaang !!! part of the spring broke on me while trying to bend it and do what Alan did with the spring, so after that I practically rescue the leftover spring make that dog to work, at the end it worked good, I dont think it will fail because the plate that secures the dog set everything in place and feels solid, maybe I wont notice if it fails because the other dog is working perfectly, the left side dog with the modified spring has bigger pressure and it clicks louder than the other one but its UGLY as hell hahaha.
sooooo, today while I was looking for this thread to post my ugly modified spring I FOUND OUT that our sensei Alan just found a better way to install the left side dog with the stock DC spring without any modification a with just two small cuts on the set plate
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8726.0
to bad I didnt saw that other thread and instructions BEFORE I tried to modified the Trinidad DC spring, anyway, for now I will be using the reel as is, pretty sure it will work good but if I happen to get another spring I will mod the set plate as Alan did in the 2nd and better way to install it.
the clicking sound of both dogs working alternatively on the reel are pretty loud compared to the sound of one clicking dog of the trinidad 30DC or the trinidad 16 gold with the upgraded dog/spring, both dogs sound as loud as a clicker on some reels, rrrrtt rrrrt ::) ::) :P
two DC dogs on the trini 40 .......... Done
fix the screw on the handle .......... pending
upgrade to carbontex .................. Pending
install new ARB bearing and tube... Pending
Where can I get some prawl and spring for this upgrade
I ran out months ago. :-\
Controversial opinion, but in the 10 years or so since this was first posted, reels have become available that mean we don't have to push the limits of reels like the original Trinidads and Toriums. Fish them as a 30lb reel and you'll never have a problem with the factory anti-reverse.
I have a few sets left. I needed two sets today on two Torium 30's. Yes both were going backwards!!
I have a bunch of sets left as well.
i ran out a long time ago. :-\
Bryan do you by chance still have any of these? A friend dropped off a Trinidad 40 that could use a pair if available. Thanks for checking, Brendan.