Same premise as the DIY CT conversion thread. There's a kit that exists. Black Dog sells it for a reasonable price. But I wanna make my own because it's fun. I'm thinking a well chosen nut and bolt, with the head of the bolt recessed a bit and a rare earth magnet epoxied into that recess, and the nut gets affixed to the hole drilled into the side plate. Hey it's a start.
I used to make some of those. Don't anymore, but here's some links to see the parts.
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=24662.msg276609#msg276609
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=26171.msg296561#msg296561
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=24160.msg279812#msg279812
Started with a SHCS, machined the head flat and short. Drilled and tapped it through for the smaller threaded rod. that threaded rod got drilled and tapped on one end to attach the magnet. The other end had the knob threaded on and locked with a set screw. There was a spring in there too. All stainless. Found some nice magnets that had a counter sunk hole through them for a FHCS.
I made one for my Abu 7000, it is a little crude. Basically its a stainless hex screw in a threaded sleeve with a spring and the mags are glued on to the end of it. It does work perfectly though. I found that after many hours of looking, I couldn't find the parts to make it look like the ones you buy, so I gave up. Finding a knurled cap with a set screw was the missing link to bring it all together. I will post a pic of it later. I hope you are more successful than me!
Mcmaster Carr, $8.76 with 1/8"ID and set screw plus indicator line.
Quote from: thorhammer on December 21, 2022, 01:41:28 PMMcmaster Carr, $8.76 with 1/8"ID and set screw plus indicator line.
Hate to complain about free info not being informative enough, but can you throw me a search term (or a link, but thats a bigger ask) for what you're describing?
I was just gonna order one on rocket but the website doesn't wanna give me a "pay now" button after filling out my info, so I'm kinda stuck.
search knurled set screw knob
I was thing about it but decided to sell a few reels I wasn't using and bought a Blue Yonder. Sweet reel.
You actually gave a decent description, but i find myself annoyed by MC's search engine.
But looking at some of these hex-key-headed set screws leads to another question: why are mag controls on reels always knobs or dials and not levers? I feel like a lever on the tailplate to throw the brakes on quick with minimal effort would be cool. So a hex key set screw thru a nut fastened to the side plate, and an allen key cut off just past the bend, JBWelded in, might achieve that goal. What am I missing here?
Jason,
I think the lever is a cool idea! However, if you're wanting to be able to increase the braking (adjust the magnet toward the spool) you'd need to make sure you have a positive stop so you didn't crash the magnet into the spool when adjusting it quickly like that. Also, it may just be me, but I don't think my reflexes are good enough to make a quick adjustment like that in the midst of a cast.
Knob allows for very fine tuning during the cast for distance casters, and works just as well for holding a a single set-it-and forget-it setting for the general public that just want to prevent backlashes at the expense of maximum distance.
I was thinking that some sort of spring loaded thumb operated push button with an adjustable max would be the most ergonomic and you could adjust the mag setting during the the cast, or just floor it it for max control. But then I realized that this was pretty much the same thing as just thumbing the spool :)
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on December 27, 2022, 09:06:14 PMBut then I realized that this was pretty much the same thing as just thumbing the spool :)
-J
I had a similar thought process. I thought more about what an allen key based lever would look like, and yeah that's a no. But i guess in my head I was thinking it would end up something like a lever drag vs star drag, but mag version. I'm gonna buy the real thing I just also wanna play around in the shop.
Quote from: jurelometer on December 27, 2022, 09:06:14 PMKnob allows for very fine tuning during the cast for distance casters, and works just as well for holding a a single set-it-and forget-it setting for the general public that just want to prevent backlashes at the expense of maximum distance.
I was thinking that some sort of spring loaded thumb operated push button with an adjustable max would be the most ergonomic and you could adjust the mag setting during the the cast, or just floor it it for max control. But then I realized that this was pretty much the same thing as just thumbing the spool :)
-J
I use 2 reels with adjustable mags and 2 with static. Just to complicate it a bit the reels with the adjustable mags use 0.5 mono and I use those for more difficult casting conditions or if distance matters.
I had the size of the knobbies on the adjustable mags reduced by half as I found that I continuously and unintentionally adjusted them with my arm and wonder what a lever would do if you bumped it...... move from 0 - 10?
BTW you probably do not need adjustable mags for most fishing situations, the difference this makes is miniscule and I think not practical for most people.
Mag Elite has slidey mag, which is basically what you are describing. Knobby is easier and less parts for production.
Quote from: thorhammer on December 27, 2022, 01:22:56 PMsearch knurled set screw knob
I tried that in the past with no luck on that part on that site, I'll look again.
As far as the mono mags, they are very touchy. On my Rocket Reel, i have to reset it everytime because it gets knocked off the setting so easy. On my Omoto reels with a mag array, I like that set up for fishing much better. Instead of one mag, it has an array of them (many do, like the Penn's) with a clicker on the knob so it stays put. I find this much better for fishing and much better for the newbie who is just getting into bait casters. I do like the fact that I can adjust my Rocket Reel mono mag mid-flight, but you don't really need to do that while fishing.
This is the knob I used:
https://www.mcmaster.com/6332K32/
Quote from: xjchad on December 28, 2022, 03:05:27 PMThis is the knob I used:
https://www.mcmaster.com/6332K32/
Wayne let me know that the link I posted required a login. Sorry guys!
Let's try this again: https://www.mcmaster.com/6332K32/
If that doesn't work, go to mcmaster.com and search 6332K32
Quote from: xjchad on December 28, 2022, 04:47:55 PMQuote from: xjchad on December 28, 2022, 03:05:27 PMThis is the knob I used:
https://www.mcmaster.com/6332K32/
Wayne let me know that the link I posted required a login. Sorry guys!
Let's try this again: https://www.mcmaster.com/6332K32/
If that doesn't work, go to mcmaster.com and search 6332K32
Thank you!
Quote from: xjchad on December 28, 2022, 03:05:27 PMThis is the knob I used:
https://www.mcmaster.com/6332K32/
yes, that one.
and beware...going in MC with a paypal account will having you fabbing a space shuttle....
Quote from: thorhammer on December 29, 2022, 12:07:45 AMand beware...going in MC with a paypal account will having you fabbing a space shuttle....
;D ;D
Quote from: thorhammer on December 29, 2022, 12:07:45 AMand beware...going in MC with a paypal account will having you fabbing a space shuttle....
That's what happens to me when I walk into ace hardware. There seems to always be one more digit on the total than I was expecting.
Chad, you need any freshwater tackle or whatever for the kids?
Quote from: thorhammer on December 30, 2022, 02:07:11 AMChad, you need any freshwater tackle or whatever for the kids?
That's awful kind of you to think of them John! I don't think there's anything we desperately need, but if you have some stuff you need to get rid of, let me know. I found a few more reels that I won't be using up here I'm happy to trade away also :D
I've discovered that a axle end cap for a 1/4" screw is the exact diameter to fit inside an abu spool adjustment knob. Like, absolutely perfect fit. So it appears I have the option of having a 2nd abu knob on the tail plate of a flat side reel.
On the dome side reel, I imagine I can do some diagonal filing on a washer or two to accommodate the non flat plate, but devil's advocate; what happens if the magnet's path toward and away from the spool is non-parallel? Like what if I don't even try to shim it and it's just sorta diagonal? My initial impression is that's more about aesthetics and it'll work just fine, but I've been wrong, a lot.
If the magnet's face is not parallel to the spool surface, some of the magnetic field will be farther away from the spool. The field is stronger closer to the magnet and does not extend far. There is usually a scientific paper a web search away that can confirm:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/a-Magnetic-flux-density-perpendicular-to-the-face-of-a-neodymium-magnet-along-the_fig1_303950116
I would suspect that the greater the angle, the larger the magnet would have to be to compensate, and you would eliminate the possibility out getting the magnet really close to the spool if it was not parallel. A tiny bit off angle probably doesn't matter so much.
If you can get some Delrin rod at your local plastic supplier, the stuff is a dream to work with. It would take little time to drill and file a nice angled shim.
This is my best guess. But I have been wrong before as well :)
-J
Well I went and did it. And being the sorta clever fellow I prete d to be, I tried it on my 4500C3 before I try it on my 5500 fancy build. Bit of a learning curve. For one the reel has almost no freespool now even with the magnet backed off all the way. My impression is either something is unexpectedly rubbing, or that magnet is too strong. Will look for rub spots first.
I also attempted to avoid making a spacer by using pc7 epoxy paste thinking it would cure and hold the shape. And it sorta did. Next one will get a spacer.
Where'd you order the mag kit? They make one for dome sided abu's with bushing it for about same price.
That said, I make bushings out of black starboard scrap, which is poly, but I make a lot of things from delrin too, as Dave states.
I made it myself for $7 at ace hardware. What I'm seeing though is rocket uses a 1# pull magnet in theirs. Mine is a 3# pull. That may be my issue. Gotta get a smaller magnet.
Nice work! I used a magnet not much larger on a much bigger spool with good braking, so you may need to go to a weaker magnet. It something were rubbing, I'm sure you'd hear it.
Quote from: jurelometer on December 27, 2022, 09:06:14 PMKnob allows for very fine tuning during the cast for distance casters, and works just as well for holding a a single set-it-and forget-it setting for the general public that just want to prevent backlashes at the expense of maximum distance.
I was thinking that some sort of spring loaded thumb operated push button with an adjustable max would be the most ergonomic and you could adjust the mag setting during the the cast, or just floor it it for max control. But then I realized that this was pretty much the same thing as just thumbing the spool :)
-J
I've watched distance casters
They adjust the magnet during the cast,
K
So I realize I never checked the spool tension knob. Results are far more in line with what I was expecting, but I still think I'm gonna go to a smaller magnet for the next build. I did this on a reel that's a new build with no line on it yet. So i can't compare before/after casting.
Yea, wait and see how it reacts. On my reels with a mag array, the mags are always on no matter how far you back off. It really does not seem to affect my distance when fishing. On my knobby mags, I can back off all the way and it goes into complete free spool. I started practicing distance casting with the knobby mag Rocket Reel. I start the cast with the mag full on so I can really rip it and when the weight hits the apex, I quickly back off the mag...If I get that far without blowing up. I really like this thread and the brainstorming that is going on around here! Maybe we can figure this out so it looks good and is economical to buying these things from England.
Nice!
1. Temporarily attaching the magnet with something less permanent than epoxy will let you test with different magnets. Some folks just use a magnetic substrate (like a steel washer) and the magnet will hold itself in place.
I always wondered if the mag power requirement is affected by payload weight. You would think that the mag is only supposed to keep the spool from spinning faster than the payload is pulling it, so it should not have to slow down the payload, just the overrun, but it seems that folks do adjust for payload size. The only mag reel that I have has zero at low and near zero at high, so it is always set at full.
2. I think you probably know this, but if you ever need to get a cleaner looking application of PC-7 or PC-11, good old isopropyl alcohol can be used to clean, shape, or smooth the surface while it is still wet. The PC epoxy pastes shape really nicely with those modeling clay tools dipped in alcohol.
3. Neodymium magnets rust super easily. The nickel coating sort of protects if it is not scratched, but not for long in wet, especially saltwater environments.
They sell epoxy coated magnets, or you can coat yourself. I think that the coating deceases the power a little.
If you don't use coated magnets, consider greasing them well. Sal did an expirement where he submerged regular construction nails in saltwater for a fairly long period of time, some naked, some covered in grease. Grease brand did not matter, and as long as the grease covered the nail, it did not rust. Sal did the best experiments.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on January 06, 2023, 08:55:16 PMI always wondered if the mag power requirement is affected by payload weight. You would think that the mag is only supposed to keep the spool from spinning faster than the payload is pulling it, so it should not have to slow down the payload, just the overrun, but it seems that folks do adjust for payload size. The only mag reel that I have has zero at low and near zero at high, so it is always set at full.
What I don't understand is why it takes more magnets to get thumb-free casting for a 1/4 ounce jig than it does for a 3/8 ounce jig. That is with exactly the same rod, reel and line.
I attach two to four countersunk magents with a #6 nut and bolt through the side plate. Then thinner wafers magnets are stacked on top until it is tuned for thumb-free.
I'm not coordinated enough to thumb the spool or adjust the knobby thing while the jig is in the air.
UPGRAAAAAADE
I got a 10-32 lock nut and drilled out the nylon ring and pressed in a (smaller) quarter inch magnet.
The reel was only getting 20 sec freespool before I did this. Now fully retracted it gets 18 fully engaged it gets 5 or less.
It's on. I decided to make my own smaller lighter barrel nut. 2nd pic is comparison against the one I used before. Amazon has these knobs in anodized aluminum instead of the stainless currently in use. I can go way lighter. No reel is safe.
Beautiful
Nice! 8) 8)
Thanks guys. I look at reel mods sorta like I look at car mods. Among other things I think it's a job well done if it looks like it could pass for a factory installed option. And i feel like this second version isn't far off from that. So im pretty happy. Now i just gotta spool it up.
Great work. I think the subject of how much magnetism is needed isn't as simple as weight of lure. There are more variables in there: weight of spool, how much line, kind of line, length, power, and action of rod, the caster's technique, big bait / small bait / no bait, and top me even the size of the reel matters, not just spool weight, but width of spool and reel diameter, in that it affects technique. Getting max freespool is always the bar, and may be great when you spin spool or throwing tourney over grass, but you might find in a fishing application with a head wind, 10 oz sinker, and a half a cobb mullet your magnet requirements are much different; what you think is heavy mag on an empty reel in your garage is quite different in practice. This isn't theoretical, you all know I've built hundreds of reels, and used the following in surf applications to back this up:
525Mag, 525GS, 535GS, 545GS, Squall 15, 501, 99, 990, 980, Mag 10, Squidder, 146 Squidder, 155, 9, 209, Omoto Chief (magged, THANKS BREADFAN for the SOLID!!!), Abu 5500, 6000, 5000, 7000, 6600W, 6500CT (mags) 6500C, 6500C3, 525 (mag), Daiwa Magforce (mag), 20SHV, 30 Slosh. I prolly forgot one or two from the last 30 years but that's a decent sampling, anywhere from 8 - 13 foot rods, glass and carbon, braid (mostly NOT), 12 - 30 lb test mono.
Also, don't underestimate the action and power of rod and technique- an easy overhead thumper on a soft honey Lami with 5oz is going to accelerate the spool a lot differently than getting into it on a CTS zoned blank with 8 oz.
Kurt (Breadfan), being an outstanding human being, sent me an Omoto Chief too put through the paces at OBX. I initially thought the reel could've used a bit more freespool. Until I actually fished it. Clicking up the mag a couple notches it threw effortlessly and far with 6 & 8 n bait on a 12' Tsunami 4-10. Tremendous value, BeachBob loves these reels too.
Yeah this 2nd one is attached to the sideplate with 5min epoxy, and teflon tape is holding the nut with the mag in place for now. I need to cast this thing before i can say anything meaningful about what needs to change. And i wanted the option to change things.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on January 10, 2023, 05:50:13 AMIt's on. I decided to make my own smaller lighter barrel nut. 2nd pic is comparison against the one I used before. Amazon has these knobs in anodized aluminum instead of the stainless currently in use. I can go way lighter. No reel is safe.
this 2nd version looks pretty good.
you might even get the parts put them on a small bag and sell them as a kit, Im up for 2 kits ;D
I'm thinking the same, amigo. Jason, you're in bidness!
I just keep refining. I realized I can drill out the hole to accommodate the magnet by spinning the part and holding the drill bit still. Then I narrowed the bottom so the compressed magnet would have somewhere to hang out. This allows for far more travel. I can in essence get the magnet closer to the spool than before, and also back it out further.
God i need to get a tap n die set. I have so many ideas.
John and Alex, I need someone to do some beta testing once I finish refining the design.
Nice.
You can buy taps and dies individually at the hardware store for not much money. They can be held with pliers or vicegrips so you don't even need the handles for doing a few pieces.
When you feel you like what you got, or close, send a couple and let me know what I owe you. I have plenty of reels to try on and will give you heaver feedback for 5,6,8,10 oz lead delivery. I'll do 12 oz if you like, but if it's that nasty I'm in a bar not trying to sling over one. Timing is good, I need to get on the grass and get some practice in during the next few weeks; Heaver demo day is in March. I'm tweaking my Geeks stump puller, and about to start building a CTS 1305 and Guts Butt 11'3", so I've a lot of field testing to do with these set for certain applications.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on January 12, 2023, 04:43:29 AMJohn and Alex, I need someone to do some beta testing once I finish refining the design.
that would be a good excuse to take the dust off from my 12ft rainshadow casting rod with some 4-6oz and also with a 10ft fenwick casting 1.5 to 3oz
That looks great Jason! I love the progress you're making on this!
Compadre, which Rainshadow blank do you have? The 1502's are gold up here.
Quote from: thorhammer on January 12, 2023, 06:12:40 PMCompadre, which Rainshadow blank do you have? The 1502's are gold up here.
RS SUR1505, I bought it few years ago, way before I was even thinking to be able to build my own rods, I wanted a Surf casting rod to cast lures and spoons but this one is more a bait rod, it cast like a dream 5oz + bait.
I was thinking to sell it but Im better off rebuilding it with my own mark
She's ready for a test. Though I honestly thought it would fit more line. Only got 250yds of 15# braid on, with no backing.
Not installed yet but the rocket steel gear arrived yesterday.
Wow, that does sound low. I thought they are supposed to hold 195 yds of 12 mono. I'd have expected 300 yds of 15 braid.
Oh this thing casts! With my one surf conventional rod I went to a lake and flung a 2oz weight over 100 yds with relative ease a bunch of times. Granted I had a tail wind but it wasn't crazy. I tried the mag brake at different settings (really getting looser as I got more confident) and I'm pretty happy with the results.
Quote from: oc1 on January 07, 2023, 04:53:54 AMQuote from: jurelometer on January 06, 2023, 08:55:16 PMI always wondered if the mag power requirement is affected by payload weight. You would think that the mag is only supposed to keep the spool from spinning faster than the payload is pulling it, so it should not have to slow down the payload, just the overrun, but it seems that folks do adjust for payload size. The only mag reel that I have has zero at low and near zero at high, so it is always set at full.
What I don't understand is why it takes more magnets to get thumb-free casting for a 1/4 ounce jig than it does for a 3/8 ounce jig. That is with exactly the same rod, reel and line.
I attach two to four countersunk magents with a #6 nut and bolt through the side plate. Then thinner wafers magnets are stacked on top until it is tuned for thumb-free.
I'm not coordinated enough to thumb the spool or adjust the knobby thing while the jig is in the air.
If i may be forgiven for responding to an older comment, This is the question that has been bugging me. The additional question is why when you swap to a BFS spool you would want to to increase your mag setting to compensate. This post got longer than I expected, so the important parts are in
bold.
It seems the answer is that the braking effect is proportional both to the momentum of the spool, and the amount of aluminum moving in the local magnetic field. So going from a regular spool to a lighter spool means less metal spinning so less magnetic effect.
It leads me to wonder if I should be going to a lighter magnet for a heavier spool, instead of the opposite. With regard to different mag settings needed for different weight lures to avoid a backlash, i think the answer revolves around what that backlash is, namely the lure is no longer moving as fast as the spool is so the line bunches up and rolls over. And if the cast is thrown the same, the 3/8 lure leaves the cast with momentum, which means more spool acceleration, so more initial braking will occur.
Also, that 1/4 oz lure will lose momentum in the air quicker than its heavier buddy, and will need more braking (either thumb or mag) to prevent an overrun.
I need to dig out some old physics textbooks to verify some of these assumptions.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on January 12, 2023, 04:43:29 AMI just keep refining. I realized I can drill out the hole to accommodate the magnet by spinning the part and holding the drill bit still. Then I narrowed the bottom so the compressed magnet would have somewhere to hang out. This allows for far more travel. I can in essence get the magnet closer to the spool than before, and also back it out further.
God i need to get a tap n die set. I have so many ideas.
John and Alex, I need someone to do some beta testing once I finish refining the design.
Jason, after checking the 2nd and final version of your Mag kit, how do you installed on a dome sideplate of the abu reel?
I dont see where you "adapted" a concave surface to a flat surface for installing the kit
**** after seeing this thread and checking Chad links on the 1st page I recalled I bought a Blackdog Mag kit from Chad few years ago, Jan 2020 to be exact, so I got it, then the pandemic hitted hard worldwide but also pretty bad here in Baja so, I saved the magkit somewhere and totally forgot about it until yesterday, it took me hours looking on all my fishing cabinets, boxes, tool's storage places, etc until I found it. ::) ;D
I recall I was going to try to installed it onto my "now sold" saltist 20h but never even tried it.
it would be cool to compare these two kits, Jason & BlackDog
PS: Chad's Magkits were pretty similar to the ones from Blackdog