I recently rebuilt a 1973 6500C and after reading so many positive comments on this site about Carbontex drag washers I decided to replace the stock washers with Carbontex. So, I ordered them through a favorite vendor. He sent me two washers: Garcia P/N 10271 replaces the original 7079 and Garcia P/N (he didn't give me this number) replaces the original 3902. Just for kicks as a test, I installed them dry and sure enough the drag feels very jerky. So my question to all of you is what is your choice for drag grease? On this forum, Cal's seems like a popular choice. Also, it doesn't make any sense to me that drag grease is required since the purpose of the drag is to produce friction which the grease will help eliminate. Can someone please enlighten me? Also, can someone please confirm that Garcia P/N 10271 is, in fact, Carbontex. Maybe it's Garcia's version of Carbontex? Seems like some guys install them dry but these did not feel smooth when I installed them dry. Thanks in advance!
cal's. if you have shimano drag grease, go ahead and use it, but go with cal's if you can.
#1 Cal's, #2 Shamano. CF drag washers and Cal's drag grease can be purchased from Smooth Drag.
You are correct that the purpose of drag disks is to introduce friction. And grease does in fact reduce the maximum drag your reel can produce. But when youre actually fishing your reel, what's better: being able to reach higher drags in a laboratory setting even if the jerkiness would snap your line, or losing 10% of your theoretical max drag, but it's butter smooth across the whole range?
Grease your drags. Cal's is best, but any grease that's suitable for a reel is suitable for drags.
And while you're in there take some 1000 grit sandpaper to the metal.drag disks and the result will be even silkier. Just make sure to clean off any metal dust before reinstalling.
I have a few small tubs of Shimano drag grease from Shimano —- but it is messier.
Cal's works so well.
I buy it from Cal's in both the traditional tan color and the thinner purple color.
The tan is used on heavy duty reel work like for salt or HD fresh. The purple is used for freshwater reels, cold conditions like Canadian and Alaskan climates —- and mixes well with my synthetic oil to thin it out a little more.
Plus, oftentimes, I'll use the purple on the gears of spinners.
It is smooth and stays in place until the next service —- then washes off easily with solvents.
I generally go through (3) 1 pound tubs of Cal's a year.
I also use Yamaha Marine & Superlube on gears —- because the Cal's is a little expensive to use on gears all of the time.
The best for drags —- is Cal's.
Best, Fred
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on January 25, 2023, 05:08:53 PMYou are correct that the purpose of drag disks is to introduce friction. And grease does in fact reduce the maximum drag your reel can produce. But when youre actually fishing your reel, what's better: being able to reach higher drags in a laboratory setting even if the jerkiness would snap your line, or losing 10% of your theoretical max drag, but it's butter smooth across the whole range?
Grease your drags. Cal's is best, but any grease that's suitable for a reel is suitable for drags.
And while you're in there take some 1000 grit sandpaper to the metal.drag disks and the result will be even silkier. Just make sure to clean off any metal dust before reinstalling.
Jason, I do the same thing on those surfaces but with a green Scotch pad.
Is the Garcia 10271 washer I purchased the same "Carbontex" material as the washer that I could have purchased from Smooth Drag? I'm trying to figure out if there are different variations of that material.
Fred, I tested purple by greasing identical reelsvwith regular Cal's and purple Cal's then putting the reels in my freezer. I did not notice a difference in the pounds it to break. I still use both, purple on mine and others steelhead reels and any reel that could be used in sub freezing conditions.
They are both carbon fiber textiles but they are not to the best of my understanding the same in all regards. At the minimum the weave is different. Not sure if it helps or hurts but to visual inspection they are different.
For this application the reel could see some colder weather duty like early spring up in Canada or late November pike/muskie fishing in Michigan. Should I get the purple grease?
It's interesting to me that the drag washers in my early 5000's (P/N 3902 and 3903 are very smooth when installed dry and when it comes time for a rebuild all I do is clean with acetone, scuff them with a green Scotch pad and reuse them. They don't seem to ever go bad. It's for this reason that I have yet to try the Carbontex. However, the 7079 drag washer in later reels seems to be made of a different material (leather?) and in my experience is often deteriorated when I disassemble the reel.
Sliding friction is a function of how slippery the surface pair is (coefficient of friction) and how hard the surfaces are pressed together. Greasing the drag surfaces decreases the coefficient of friction, so you have to tighten the star more to achieve the same drag setting, as you noted. But you get something useful in return:
There are two flavors of friction that you are dealing with - static and kinetic. The coefficient of friction for a pair of sliding surfaces will be greater from a dead stop (static) than when in motion (kinetic). If you want the smoothest drag, you need the least difference between static and kinetic friction. Greasing the drag washers gives you both lower static and kinetic, but there is also less difference between the two.
As to which grease to use:
1. Has to be the right thickness when cold (NLGI 2, maybe 1 for very cold environments UDATE - maybe not, looking at Lee's testing)
2. Has to have a high dropping point (doens't get runny below about 350F or so)
3. Has a PTFE (trade name Teflon) additive to decrease the difference in COF (not sure if this is really necessary- but the popular drag greases have it).
For just about any use, a grease with the above properties will work fine.
Cal's is the long time favorite, but it is an older technology mineral oil based grease. It got sticky on my cork drag saltwater fly reels, so I switched to Super Lube, which I now use on all types of reels. Other members here use it as well. It is more readily available, economically priced, and has a synthetic lubricant.
I think that most of the high volume reel repair guys (and especially the big game guys) are wary of moving away from something that works just fine, and most started out with Cal's.
BTW, dry carbon weave should be reasonably smooth if the metal washers are clean and smooth, but might be a bit more sticky than a smooth drag washer if the metal washers are a bit dirty or scuffed.
-J
Currently I use Amsoil red #2 multi-purpose synthetic grease in my reels. It's a great grease if you look at the properties and it also doesn't separate. Maybe I should get Super Lube rather than Cal's since it is also synthetic? I was hoping to use grease I already have in the garage (I do a fair amount of automotive side work) but have no issue with buying something if that's what it takes to do it right.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on January 25, 2023, 08:33:34 PMCurrently I use Amsoil red #2 multi-purpose synthetic grease in my reels. It's a great grease if you look at the properties and it also doesn't separate. Maybe I should get Super Lube rather than Cal's since it is also synthetic? I was hoping to use grease I already have in the garage (I do a fair amount of automotive side work) but have no issue with buying something if that's what it takes to do it right.
The Superlube grease will be fine. Just wipe it all off on a towel without damaging the carbon washer. Those small ones are easy to break
We Cals in our saltwater reels. I've seen so many reels with multiple drag washers completely stuck in the main gear by saltwater and corrosion. They have to be soaked in oil or similar for hours.
You then have to beat the main gear off of the gear sleeve and dig the old washer's out
Keith
Are you guys saying Super Lube works well as a drag grease?
Quote from: Walleye Guy on January 25, 2023, 04:27:14 PMI installed them dry and sure enough the drag feels very jerky.
FYI, they shouldn't be jerky dry, probably some oil or grease got on them during installation.
Quote from: nelz on January 26, 2023, 04:18:48 PMAre you guys saying Super Lube works well as a drag grease?
It works great on drags and everything else. Been using it for a few years now. Have not come across any issues regarding drag or anything. Love it.
I'm speaking from fresh water reel servicing only.
There are a number of comprehensive posts on this site. Check them out.
Quote from: nelz on January 26, 2023, 04:18:48 PMAre you guys saying Super Lube works well as a drag grease?
I really like it on drags. Lots of saltwater hours and up to 20 lbs or so of drag, but no experience to share on big game reels.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on January 26, 2023, 04:47:04 PMI really like it on drags. Lots of saltwater hours and up to 20 lbs or so of drag, but no experience to share on big game reels.-J
Good to know... and won't be using 20lbs drag ever, lol, heck, I'm struggling to even get out fishing any more :(
has anyone ever tried using super lube aerosol on drag washers?
Quote from: jurelometer on January 25, 2023, 07:04:33 PM...Cal's is the long-time favorite, but it is an older technology mineral oil-based grease. It got sticky on my cork drag saltwater fly reels, so I switched to Super Lube, which I now use on all types of reels.
-J
J-man!
How about Abel Reels using pure Neatsfoot Oil on their cork drag washers???
This from Abel Reels Website: Easy Care Instructions
Apply a light coat of pure neat's- foot to the cork drag only if drag feels unsmooth. https://abelreels.com/main/care-instructions/
for a few years around 2015, Abel Reels had a Sealed Drag that required you to send it back to Abel for any adjustments
The Sealed Drag (SD) debuted in 2013, and was discontinued in 2016. Click below to view instructions on the original SD reel. Other than regular rinsing under fresh water to clean debris out, there are currently no care instructions for the SD reel as all changes and adjustments to the internal drag must be factory set. In your opinion how does Super Lube perform vs. Neatsfoot oil??? I've used Abel reels in Baja and the Bahama Islands, with Neatsfoot oil on the cork drags and they worked FLAWLESSLY!!!
WHAT SAYETH YOU??
TANKS!!!
Wayne
Has anyone tried Sil-Glyde which is a silicone based grease?
Quote from: Walleye Guy on January 26, 2023, 05:40:32 PMHas anyone tried Sil-Glyde which is a silicone based grease?
I've used the silicone version of super lube. It worked just great but it's near impossible to remove for the next service. Unconfirmed but my suspicion is this one will be similar.
Sorry to circle back, but out of curiosity I would like to ask you guys (who obviously have a lot or knowledge in this area) what would the drawback be to using the same #2 red Amsoil grease that I use to rebuild reels? Would it cause a sticky drag? Or maybe it's not that it wouldn't work well, but like jurelometer said it's more that a grease with teflon would be better because it does a better job minimizing the difference between static and kinetic friction. Maybe I should just try it and see lol.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on January 26, 2023, 06:28:55 PMMaybe I should just try it and see lol.
It's only $8 for a 3oz plastic tube to try it out. That 3oz tube will last a long time and do quite a few reels. I've been using it on freshwater reels since it came out. I brought it up here a few years back. Mo and Chester started using it, too, and now a lot have guys have switched over to it.
Walleye Guy, it has to be the right type of grease, otherwise it will make things really jerky. Strange but true. ???
Tom, are you referring to Super Lube or Cal's?
nelz, that's what I was wondering, thank-you for confirming that a traditional grease will still be jerky.
Super Lube
Quote from: El Pescador on January 26, 2023, 05:37:12 PMQuote from: jurelometer on January 25, 2023, 07:04:33 PM...Cal's is the long-time favorite, but it is an older technology mineral oil-based grease. It got sticky on my cork drag saltwater fly reels, so I switched to Super Lube, which I now use on all types of reels.
-J
J-man!
How about Abel Reels using pure Neatsfoot Oil on their cork drag washers???
This from Abel Reels Website: Easy Care Instructions
Apply a light coat of pure neat's- foot to the cork drag only if drag feels unsmooth.
https://abelreels.com/main/care-instructions/
" only if drag feels unsmooth"
That's the problem right there. Neatsfoot doesn't last that long, especially in hot climates, and you need to time the reapplication. It doesn't go bad, it just disappears, and a dry cork drag is no fun at all.
Abel is the only cork drag reel maker that I know of that does not use some sort of grease.
I got turned onto Cal's by reading about what was used in Australia. The Aussies all seemed to use Cal's on cork drags, starting with their reel guru, Jack Erskine. One time I had a shop put new backing on an Abel, and he greased up the drag with Cal's as a favor without even bothering to ask - like who would use anything else? :)
I never had to re-lube a drag with Cal's because it was gone, it would just start to get a bit gummy, and the reel would make embarrassing pig squealing noises, but was still much smoother than when a neatsfoot drag about ready for more oil. A dryed out neatsfoot drag makes the reel unfishable, but a gummy Cal's is plenty fishable if you can handle all the Deliverance "humor" being dished out.
I switched to Super Lube, because I had some for household use, my tub of Cal's had separated, and folks here told me they used Super Lube on reels. The specs were all good.
With one application of Super Lube, I went one season with 60 plus days of panga bashing for yellowtail, dorado, roosters, tuna, etc. on a pair of Super 12s. Then two years of sitting around during the pandemic. Drag was still perfect. Cleaned and reapplied to get rid of any accumulated dust and dirt, but it could have kept going.
Quotefor a few years around 2015, Abel Reels had a Sealed Drag that required you to send it back to Abel for any adjustments
The Sealed Drag (SD) debuted in 2013, and was discontinued in 2016. Click below to view instructions on the original SD reel. Other than regular rinsing under fresh water to clean debris out, there are currently no care instructions for the SD reel as all changes and adjustments to the internal drag must be factory set.
Everybody likes the latest "maintenance free" fly reel -rave reviews, then in a couple years, they start failing, and some other companies "maintenance free" reel becomes the hot ticket, then in a couple years... rinse,repeat. Some are better than others, but many of the big name brands have failed models.
Abel is taking another whack at it with the Vaya series. If somebody gave me one, I would unload it the very next day and buy a used beat up cork drag model from the 90s.
QuoteIn your opinion how does Super Lube perform vs. Neatsfoot oil??? I've used Abel reels in Baja and the Bahama Islands, with Neatsfoot oil on the cork drags and they worked FLAWLESSLY!!!
WHAT SAYETH YOU??
TANKS!!!
Wayne
Nothing wrong with neatsfoot if you stay on top of it, and reapply exactly when needed. If you take a longer trip and forgot to bring your neatsfoot with you, than you are kinda screwed. I forget stuff when I travel. I greatly prefer Super Lube. Abel purists will probably disagree.
-J
Super Lube is also rated for incidental food contact, so it is nice to have a not so toxic grease to use around the house.
Your Amsoil grease might work on drags. It is missing the Teflon/PTFE additive that the popular drag greases use. If you are curious, you can give it a try.
Don't want to oversell Super Lube. It is one of several greases that folks here use on drags. I just do a dozen or so reels a year, which is nothing compared to our reel repair pros. I like it because it is cheap, less toxicity risk, and doesn't separate before I use it up.
-J
Quote from: alantani on January 26, 2023, 05:29:59 PMhas anyone ever tried using super lube aerosol on drag washers?
Ooh, interesting. Didn't know that they could thin the grease with a solvent, apply with an aerosol, and it would then reconstitute.
There is also a Super Lube dry film aerosol that could mebbe be an alternative to the TSI product for stuff like bearings?
-J
INOX MX6 is my go-to for just about anything in a reel (drags included), and I only reach for MX8 for heavier gearing.
https://www.inoxmx.com/products/mx6-food-grade-grease/
I too use Inox products. I use MX8 on conventional reels. It's an excellent product.
Keith
Quote from: jurelometer on January 27, 2023, 12:56:52 AMSuper Lube is also rated for incidental food contact, so it is nice to have a not so toxic grease to use around the house.
Always a plus when you can eat cookies or a sandwich working on reels ;) ;D
Quote from: Lunker Larry on January 27, 2023, 04:51:30 PMQuote from: jurelometer on January 27, 2023, 12:56:52 AMSuper Lube is also rated for incidental food contact, so it is nice to have a not so toxic grease to use around the house.
Always a plus when you can eat cookies or a sandwich working on reels ;) ;D
maybe a little closer to the truth than you might think. ;D
I bought a 3 ounce tube of Super Lube yesterday from the local hardware store. It was $13 but I had to get a few more items which pushed me over the $20 limit so I could FINALLY use that $5 coupon in my wallet that I've been carrying around for the last month. Whoohoo!
If The Spirit moves me, I'll first try assembling the reel with the red Amsoil grease just for kicks and will see if it feels jerky.
The company I work for makes bottling equipment for the beverage industry. The best food grade grease we can get is not that great because, as we were taught by the owner, it's "like mayonnaise". Sort of lubricating and somewhat safe if it accidentally gets mixed into product and consumed. Thus it's a compromise and not as good as other non-food grade greases but we have to use it per FDA regulations.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on January 27, 2023, 06:43:02 PMThe company I work for makes bottling equipment for the beverage industry. The best food grade grease we can get is not that great because, as we were taught by the owner, it's "like mayonnaise". Sort of lubricating and somewhat safe if it accidentally gets mixed into product and consumed. Thus it's a compromise and not as good as other non-food grade greases but we have to use it per FDA regulations.
This makes sense. Fewer choices for ingredients for food safe grease.
But reels don't have the pressure/velocity combo requirements of industrial machinery. Reels turn very slowly under relatively light loads compared to "real" machinery. Spool bearings on conventionals can hit a reasonably high velocity for a short length of time when casting, but the pressure/load during the cast is negligible.
What matters more is stuff like how long the lubricant can handle being exposed to air in a reel that sits on a shelf for months at a time, and whether it will poison us if it gets on some cookies.
-J
Another big fan of Super Lube. I even use their ISO 10 oil for spool bearings and the stuff is pretty awesome (and cheap). Worm gears and support bearings get the ISO 220 differential oil and that too works great on reels with a disengaging level wind. The ISO 10 stuff seems thinner to me than Shimano BFS oil, almost spreads like a drop of water.
A note on Cal's tan versus purple. I service reels mainly for warm climates and yet I use purple at least up to but not including a 6000 size spinner, and also for smaller conventional reels, particularly those with casting action. The tan is very thick and you have to be careful not to over apply it or it will result in a stiff reel.
As far as drags I grease them all and love the performance. I didn't see anyone talk yet about "smoked" drags, meaning that a dry drag washer with high friction gets worn much faster in my experience than a greased one.
I still haven't settled on a particular oil for spool bearings. Sounds like tincanary is using Super Lube ISO 10. What are the rest of you using?
Quote from: PetesReelRepair on February 01, 2023, 01:47:53 AMA note on Cal's tan versus purple. I service reels mainly for warm climates and yet I use purple at least up to but not including a 6000 size spinner, and also for smaller conventional reels, particularly those with casting action. The tan is very thick and you have to be careful not to over apply it or it will result in a stiff reel.
As far as drags I grease them all and love the performance. I didn't see anyone talk yet about "smoked" drags, meaning that a dry drag washer with high friction gets worn much faster in my experience than a greased one.
Are you using it to Lube the reels?
Quote from: Walleye Guy on February 02, 2023, 01:54:20 PMI still haven't settled on a particular oil for spool bearings. Sounds like tincanary is using Super Lube ISO 10. What are the rest of you using?
You have two possible paths to go on spool bearings for casting reels: thin film/dry film or oil.
The film stuff comes as a liquid or spray, but once applied, the solvents evaporate and leave a very thin dry film that allegedly penetrates a bit into the metal. This will usually provide the least rolling resistance, but can be worn off by use, requiring more frequent reapplication. TSI is the most popular thin film for spool bearings here, but there are others as well.
oil will generally protect a bit longer. The thinner the oil, the less rolling resistance, and the less time it lasts. My belief is that all those "magic" "rocket charged" "super speed" oils are simply thinner oils, No magic here. Don't know if there is a most popular bearing oil here.
If you are fishing saltwater, the type of stainless used in ball bearings (440c) can corrode, so you are usually trading off casting distance for protection. Freshwater is not an issue.
-J
Its not a hill I'd die on but I'd argue that the "dry film" label people slap on TSI isn't all that fitting. I think of stuff like rem oil, which is for sure a dry film. A puddle of rem oil will dry up. A puddle of TSI doesn't seem to ever evaporate.
The last few ball-bearing reels I've rebuilt I used 3:1 oil on the spool bearings. Not very fancy but it's affordable, readily available and good quality. However, it doesn't have that butter-smooth feel so I'm definitely open to other suggestions.
if it's rough, my first thought is that the bearing needs to be replaced. new bearings can be cleaned out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lubed with anything and they should be smooth. it's just that hydrocarbon based lubes like 3:1 will eventually turn to varnish. you can try cleaning out a rough bearing, but it almost never works completely.
Quote from: jurelometer on February 03, 2023, 12:26:11 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 02, 2023, 07:29:36 PMIts not a hill I'd die on but I'd argue that the "dry film" label people slap on TSI isn't all that fitting. I think of stuff like rem oil, which is for sure a dry film. A puddle of rem oil will dry up. A puddle of TSI doesn't seem to ever evaporate.
Yeah, thin films are not necessarily dry films.
I don't think it is described as a dry film by the manufacturer - https://www.tsi301.com/issynthetic.htm (https://www.tsi301.com/issynthetic.htm)
-J
I tried a newer type of spray lubricant a few years back that was supposed to be the cat's meow and it wasn't cheap, either. Supposedly it it would soak into the metal but also create some sort of coating or film on the surface. I thought it sounded like a fantastic idea. I tried it three or four times on some reels and absolutely hated that stuff! It slowed everything down and seemed to leave a gooey film everywhere there was any hint of heavy residue. I don't remember the brand, it did have a dark blue plastic (spray paint type) cap, though. I was so disappointed with its results that I threw the entire can in the trash. :( :o
I use Corroison X on bearings because I can actually find it in a shop on occasion, and use it on firearms as well. It works fine for 99% of my fishing. I have a few try-for-low-orbit surf casters where I may use Speed-X or Rocket Fuel, but honestly there are several tunes to play before I would notice the distance in practicality. Most notably, technique improved enough to determine the outer limits of C-X first. Corrosion Block may serve as a good intermediate between grease and -X. Little thicker if you don't need max speed.
John
Quick update: I disassembled my 6500C last night and smeared a light coat of the red Amsoil #2 grease on the Carbontex drag washers and reassembled it. It feels better than when the drag washers were dry. Now I have to decide whether to disassemble again, use brake cleaner to clean the Amsoil grease from the washers and reassemble using the Super Lube. Either way, I just love how that reel looks. It has the gun metal blue side plates and a chrome frame...it's beautiful.
Quote from: handi2 on February 02, 2023, 04:18:12 PMQuote from: PetesReelRepair on February 01, 2023, 01:47:53 AMA note on Cal's tan versus purple. I service reels mainly for warm climates and yet I use purple at least up to but not including a 6000 size spinner, and also for smaller conventional reels, particularly those with casting action. The tan is very thick and you have to be careful not to over apply it or it will result in a stiff reel.
As far as drags I grease them all and love the performance. I didn't see anyone talk yet about "smoked" drags, meaning that a dry drag washer with high friction gets worn much faster in my experience than a greased one.
Are you using it to Lube the reels?
Yes I use Cal's as my reel grease, purple or tan depending on reel size and type. I don't always use Cal's exclusively but it's what I use on the gearing and in many other applications.
My gunmetal 5500 and 6500C's are some of my favs. Still use 5500C as first bass reel I pick up and it hasn't been serviced since Regan was in office but never fails a bit.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on February 03, 2023, 06:13:14 PMEither way, I just love how that reel looks. It has the gun metal blue side plates and a chrome frame...it's beautiful.
Let's see some pictures man!
Yes, please.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on February 03, 2023, 06:13:14 PMQuick update: I disassembled my 6500C last night and smeared a light coat of the red Amsoil #2 grease on the Carbontex drag washers and reassembled it. It feels better than when the drag washers were dry. Now I have to decide whether to disassemble again, use brake cleaner to clean the Amsoil grease from the washers and reassemble using the Super Lube. Either way, I just love how that reel looks. It has the gun metal blue side plates and a chrome frame...it's beautiful.
what makes the super lube possibly better then the amsoil?
Quote from: nelz on February 03, 2023, 08:29:18 PMQuote from: Walleye Guy on February 03, 2023, 06:13:14 PMEither way, I just love how that reel looks. It has the gun metal blue side plates and a chrome frame...it's beautiful.
Let's see some pictures man!
I'll take a couple pictures this weekend and post them on Monday. She's a beauty!
Quote from: pointbob on February 03, 2023, 09:15:06 PMQuote from: Walleye Guy on February 03, 2023, 06:13:14 PMQuick update: I disassembled my 6500C last night and smeared a light coat of the red Amsoil #2 grease on the Carbontex drag washers and reassembled it. It feels better than when the drag washers were dry. Now I have to decide whether to disassemble again, use brake cleaner to clean the Amsoil grease from the washers and reassemble using the Super Lube. Either way, I just love how that reel looks. It has the gun metal blue side plates and a chrome frame...it's beautiful.
what makes the super lube possibly better then the amsoil?
I had the same question and from what I'm reading the Super Lube has teflon. See the earlier response from jurelometer on page 1 for some interesting technical information about static and kinetic friction.
Quote from: PetesReelRepair on February 03, 2023, 07:53:55 PMQuote from: handi2 on February 02, 2023, 04:18:12 PMQuote from: PetesReelRepair on February 01, 2023, 01:47:53 AMA note on Cal's tan versus purple. I service reels mainly for warm climates and yet I use purple at least up to but not including a 6000 size spinner, and also for smaller conventional reels, particularly those with casting action. The tan is very thick and you have to be careful not to over apply it or it will result in a stiff reel.
As far as drags I grease them all and love the performance. I didn't see anyone talk yet about "smoked" drags, meaning that a dry drag washer with high friction gets worn much faster in my experience than a greased one.
Are you using it to Lube the reels?
Yes I use Cal's as my reel grease, purple or tan depending on reel size and type. I don't always use Cal's exclusively but it's what I use on the gearing and in many other applications.
I use Yamaha marine grease. Nothing wrong with Cals other than the cost
Quote from: handi2 on February 03, 2023, 10:55:02 PMQuote from: PetesReelRepair on February 03, 2023, 07:53:55 PMQuote from: handi2 on February 02, 2023, 04:18:12 PMQuote from: PetesReelRepair on February 01, 2023, 01:47:53 AMA note on Cal's tan versus purple. I service reels mainly for warm climates and yet I use purple at least up to but not including a 6000 size spinner, and also for smaller conventional reels, particularly those with casting action. The tan is very thick and you have to be careful not to over apply it or it will result in a stiff reel.
As far as drags I grease them all and love the performance. I didn't see anyone talk yet about "smoked" drags, meaning that a dry drag washer with high friction gets worn much faster in my experience than a greased one.
Are you using it to Lube the reels?
Yes I use Cal's as my reel grease, purple or tan depending on reel size and type. I don't always use Cal's exclusively but it's what I use on the gearing and in many other applications.
I use Yamaha marine grease. Nothing wrong with Cals other than the cost
wouldnt a marine grease WITH teflon be the best of all worlds? (https://i.ibb.co/nfwPrHT/2023-02-03-170439.jpg)
Quote from: handi2 on February 03, 2023, 10:55:02 PMQuote from: PetesReelRepair on February 03, 2023, 07:53:55 PMQuote from: handi2 on February 02, 2023, 04:18:12 PMQuote from: PetesReelRepair on February 01, 2023, 01:47:53 AMA note on Cal's tan versus purple. I service reels mainly for warm climates and yet I use purple at least up to but not including a 6000 size spinner, and also for smaller conventional reels, particularly those with casting action. The tan is very thick and you have to be careful not to over apply it or it will result in a stiff reel.
As far as drags I grease them all and love the performance. I didn't see anyone talk yet about "smoked" drags, meaning that a dry drag washer with high friction gets worn much faster in my experience than a greased one.
Are you using it to Lube the reels?
Yes I use Cal's as my reel grease, purple or tan depending on reel size and type. I don't always use Cal's exclusively but it's what I use on the gearing and in many other applications.
I use Yamaha marine grease. Nothing wrong with Cals other than the cost
I agree, it's expensive. I started out with it years ago based on research I did for servicing my own reels. The flip side is, you don't need very much of it.
I've considered other options including the one you've mentioned. Just haven't looked deeply enough into the chemistry to have a well-formed opinion. I read the lube debate threads on here with interest.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on February 03, 2023, 06:13:14 PMQuick update: I disassembled my 6500C last night and smeared a light coat of the red Amsoil #2 grease on the Carbontex drag washers and reassembled it. It feels better than when the drag washers were dry. Now I have to decide whether to disassemble again, use brake cleaner to clean the Amsoil grease from the washers and reassemble using the Super Lube. Either way, I just love how that reel looks. It has the gun metal blue side plates and a chrome frame...it's beautiful.
Hey, don't obsess too much - if the reel feels good and is working well - give it some field trials! There may be a lot of differing opinions or methods on the Forum (that's what makes it work) but for the most part they will all be good and in many cases there is no ONE right answer. Use the ABU, evaluate the performance over time, THEN worry about if the drag has to be stripped and relubed. It sounds like you have a dynamite reel that is ready to perform right now.... - john
Here are the pictures I took over the weekend. There are just a couple little flea bites in the finish but overall she's a beauty! I took it apart, degreased it, polished every exterior part and reassembled it. I used Armor All on the black handle since it was faded. I also searched Ebay for a mint leather case for it and added the spare parts tube, oil vial and wrench from my own spare parts bin. I can't wait to fish with it!
ps: if I may hijack my own thread, the new 3902 drag washer (which the seller said is Carbontex) is thinner than stock. Am I supposed to use two of them instead of just one? The other drag washer was originally a 7079 but I am using a 10271 which the seller said is Garcia's Carbontext replacement for the 7079. The 10271 is a little bit thicker than the 7079 so maybe the new 3902 was made thinner to keep the overall height of the drag stack the same?
the extra thinness should not be a problem. just crank down the star and see if it bottom's out. it should not.
When using only (1) Carbontex 3902 there is adequate clearance between the drag star and the spool tension knob when cranked down. I was just wondering if the Design Intent was only to use one or two and also if it would be bad to double stack two against each other. Sorry if these are dumb questions, this is the first reel where I've deviated from the stock drag washers so I'm trying to learn the nitty-gritty details.
I've doubled up greased drag washers once or twice with no ill effects. I think I posted this once upon a time and Allan mentioned he had done it.
Forget the reason but it worked.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on February 06, 2023, 07:15:29 PMI've doubled up greased drag washers once or twice with no ill effects. I think I posted this once upon a time and Allan mentioned he had done it.
Forget the reason but it worked.
Typing at the same time. I'll do the long version :)
To make things a bit less ambiguous:
Keyed washer usually refers to a metal washer with flats on the hole, locking it to the shaft.
Eared washer usually refers to a metal or fiber washer with tabs on the outside, locking it to the main gear.
When you have a reel with a fiber washer with a round hole and no ears, sandwiched between a pair of keyed and eared metal washers, the metal to fiber surface pair with the lowest coefficient of friction (i.e. the lower drag surface) will be the sliding surface. Only one surface pair will be sliding.
The sliding surface will not switch unless the coefficient of friction changes to the point where another surface pair will have a lower COF. This seems unlikely, and even if it were to happen, would probably not make the drag sticky or jumpy. Since the carbon fiber washer surfaces are not smooth, it is extremely unlikely that the sliding surface pair would be two carbon fiber washers. In this situation, two adjacent thin carbon fiber washers will behave more or less the same as one thick carbon fiber washer.
An extra metal spacer washer at the top of the stack will also keep the star from bottoming out. It seems most folks here just use whatever is handy.
-J
J, your explanation makes perfect sense.
Another thing, according to the vendor, this is Garcia's new version of 3902. Is that true? Can any of you verify that? It seems odd to me that Garcia made 7079 obsolete and replaced it with 10271 but the 3902 was revised to Carbontex and now it's thinner than original so technically it's not "backwards compatible".
Again, this is what the vendor told me. Seems to me like Garcia would have also made 3902 obsolete and replaced it with a new part number.
Hey Walleye Guy, the reel's a beauty! :d That model and color is one of my all time favorites. Pretty neat how you've put together the whole kit too, like the original, now you just need the box.
Quote from: nelz on February 06, 2023, 08:52:49 PMHey Walleye Guy, the reel's a beauty! :d That model and color is one of my all time favorites. Pretty neat how you've put together the whole kit too, like the original, now you just need the box.
Thanks nelz, I appreciate that. I also love the blue-gray color. The only thing I'm missing now is a booklet for it.
Do you need a box? I've got a 5500C3 box that ain't in perfect condition, but it's not doing me any good. I'm not a box collector and my reel can't ever go back to stock anyway. Yours if you want it.
Walleye Guy, FYI, if you pry off that spring tab inside the main gear, you can fit a larger drag disk in there. (It's the one that makes the drag click when it's being pulled.) Without it, the top washer will also sit more flush helping to smooth things out a bit. You'll lose the clicking but have a better drag over-all.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 07, 2023, 05:27:28 PMDo you need a box? I've got a 5500C3 box that ain't in perfect condition, but it's not doing me any good. I'm not a box collector and my reel can't ever go back to stock anyway. Yours if you want it.
I would be very interested in that. What do you want for it? Update: if it's for a 5500C3 then thank-you but I'll pass because the C3 is a different model. I appreciate your generosity, though.
Quote from: nelz on February 07, 2023, 05:58:05 PMWalleye Guy, FYI, if you pry off that spring tab inside the main gear, you can fit a larger drag disk in there. (It's the one that makes the drag click when it's being pulled.) Without it, the top washer will also sit more flush helping to smooth things out a bit. You'll lose the clicking but have a better drag over-all.
Nelz, that's good to know but I love the clicking sound when a fish runs. I really wish my 1990 4600C3 would click too.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on February 07, 2023, 06:23:49 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 07, 2023, 05:27:28 PMDo you need a box? I've got a 5500C3 box that ain't in perfect condition, but it's not doing me any good. I'm not a box collector and my reel can't ever go back to stock anyway. Yours if you want it.
I would be very interested in that. What do you want for it? Update: if it's for a 5500C3 then thank-you but I'll pass because the C3 is a different model. I appreciate your generosity, though.
Would have been free, but yeah I guess it's pointless if it's not the same model. Oh well.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on February 07, 2023, 06:25:10 PMNelz, that's good to know but I love the clicking sound when a fish runs.
Me too! :fish
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 07, 2023, 07:00:42 PMQuote from: Walleye Guy on February 07, 2023, 06:23:49 PMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 07, 2023, 05:27:28 PMDo you need a box? I've got a 5500C3 box that ain't in perfect condition, but it's not doing me any good. I'm not a box collector and my reel can't ever go back to stock anyway. Yours if you want it.
I would be very interested in that. What do you want for it? Update: if it's for a 5500C3 then thank-you but I'll pass because the C3 is a different model. I appreciate your generosity, though.
Would have been free, but yeah I guess it's pointless if it's not the same model. Oh well.
Jason, I do greatly appreciate your offer though. 👍
Quote from: Walleye Guy on February 07, 2023, 06:25:10 PMI really wish my 1990 4600C3 would click too.
You can add a click drag into the more contemporary Ambassadeurs. I've used these in a lot of reels as a screaming drag makes me dance like a school girl. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802572458963.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.e16638dapf1rK3&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US They'll fit any Ambassadeur with the Ultracast spool, so C3, C4, C5, CS as well as the Morrum, Black Max, Pro Max, Royal Extreme, and Tournament Pro. I even asked Dawn a few years ago if she had any interest in making and selling them but she didn't express any. Bummer because I know her products are great and I get a ton of requests to put these in customer reels. I don't know anybody that dislikes a drag clicker.
How am just finding this clicker deal out....
That 6500C is peach. Mine is one of my fav reels, though not in that shape. The spool fractured and Simon Simonura pressed a shaft in one of his for me; I think it was his last one.
Bob that doesn't look like it would be too hard to cut with a water jet. Hmmmm
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 17, 2023, 04:42:35 PMBob that doesn't look like it would be too hard to cut with a water jet. Hmmmm
I'd think a water jet would do it. I believe they die stamp them for mass production elsewhere. This type of drag clicker setup with the spur washer and click washer is becoming increasingly common in higher end low profile Revos as of late. I've outfitted every one of my reels with one of these sets if it didn't have a clicking drag originally.
Quote from: tincanary on February 17, 2023, 01:24:31 AMQuote from: Walleye Guy on February 07, 2023, 06:25:10 PMI really wish my 1990 4600C3 would click too.
You can add a click drag into the more contemporary Ambassadeurs. I've used these in a lot of reels as a screaming drag makes me dance like a school girl. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802572458963.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.e16638dapf1rK3&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US They'll fit any Ambassadeur with the Ultracast spool, so C3, C4, C5, CS as well as the Morrum, Black Max, Pro Max, Royal Extreme, and Tournament Pro. I even asked Dawn a few years ago if she had any interest in making and selling them but she didn't express any. Bummer because I know her products are great and I get a ton of requests to put these in customer reels. I don't know anybody that dislikes a drag clicker.
tincanary (Bob?), I apologize...I didn't see your response until I logged in today. I saw a conversion kit on Ebay a couple years ago and always wondered if it was a well-engineered kit or would not perform well. If I recall, the kit I saw involved cementing the click wheel to the main gear. The kit you use doesn't appear to be this way.
thorhammer, thanks for the compliment. I'm eager to fish this reel because I want to know how the 6000 family feels on a good pike rod. The first test drive will be our Canada trip this June. I've heard nothing but good about Simon and would really love the honor to meet him sometime.
Quote from: tincanary on February 17, 2023, 01:24:31 AMtincanary (Bob?), I apologize...I didn't see your response until I logged in today. I saw a conversion kit on Ebay a couple years ago and always wondered if it was a well-engineered kit or would not perform well. If I recall, the kit I saw involved cementing the click wheel to the main gear. The kit you use doesn't appear to be this way.
The drag clicker kits originated a few years back from a Russian fellow, he was charging about $40 per set for them at the time plus shipping. The Chinese doing what they do best copied them and sold them for like 75% cheaper, plus the shipping is much faster. I haven't noticed any quality issues with the sets I have got, they all perform well. The finish of the carbon washers supplied can be a little iffy, but I take a fine file and remove any loose material from the inner and outer perimeter.
The gentleman I was emailing with was named Serhii and he was from Ukraine. Here is a link to the Ebay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264255001950?euid=3b418a4910d1474eb72303217553038a&bu=43197130091&sojTags=bu%3Dbu&mkevt=1&mkcid=7&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&ufes_redirect=true&ul_noapp=true
Is that the same person you were thinking?