the shimano tld 15's were the first lever drag reels that i started working on. it seems like ages ago, but it was really just a few short years. in that time, i've learned a tremendous amount about lever drag reels. what were going to do is put in heavier belleville pressure washers to increase the drag range, clean out the bearings to increase freespool time and decrease the risk of corrosion, and install a greased carbon fiber drag washer. here's the schematic....
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_15_ARB_v1_m56577569830570243.pdf
here's a brand new tld 15 spooled up with 65 pound braid.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0855.JPG)
remove the preprogram dial (key #9), the lever shaft body (key #11) and "O" ring (key #10), and drag control lever (key #12). Note that there is no spring.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0856.JPG)
remove the lever quadrant (key #191) and screws (key #19, 20 and 21).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0857.JPG)
there are 5 side plate bolts (key #24) to remove.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0858.JPG)
separate out the frame, spool and side plate.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0859.JPG)
add a little grease to the click pawl (key # 231) and click spring (key #57)>
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0860.JPG)
install the rod clamp. grease the bolts first.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0861.JPG)
remove the cooling shield (key #186), drag plate assembly and drag washer (key #68).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0862.JPG)
remove the click gear (key #48), screws (key #49) and cross pin B (key # 50).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0865.JPG)
here's the main shaft (key #200) with all washers, springs and bearings in place.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0866.JPG)
and here it is disassembled.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0867.JPG)
i've cleaned out and relubed the bearings (key #42 and 170) with corrosion x. if you have an older reel with shielded bearings, take the time now to pry out the shields and throw them away.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0868.JPG)
i've reassembled the left side of the main shaft using the heavier pre-load springs (belleville's) from the shimano tld 20/30 two speed, part #TT-0040A. to accomodate the extra width of the new belleville washers, i've removed one of the thrust washers on the end, spacer A (key #47).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0869.JPG)
install the click gear (key #48) and screws (key #49).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0870.JPG)
grease the inside of the spool and new carbon fiber drag washer. you have your choice of either the penn #6-25 or the avet jx drag washer.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0872.JPG)
and remove all the excess grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0874.JPG)
install the bearings (key #170) and pressure release spring (key #202), the drag plate assembly and cooling shield (key #186).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0875.JPG)
install cross pin B (key #50).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0881.JPG)
slide the spool assembly back into the frame. now, this is important. if the spool does not slide back and forth easily inside the frame, pull the spool out again and rotate the main shaft (key #100) 180 degrees and slide it back in. this works!
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0882.JPG)
install the pinion gear (key #198) and set the spool and frame assembly aside.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0883.JPG)
here's a shot of the right main side plate bearing. we need to pull this out and pack it with heavy grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0884.JPG)
remove the handle lock (key #2) and screw (key #1).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0885.JPG)
remove the handle nut (key #3) and handle (key #206).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0886.JPG)
remove the gear shaft shield (key #5) and thrust washer (key #6), and line everything up.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0887.JPG)
let the main gear (key #197) drop straight out.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0888.JPG)
pull the right main side plate bearing (key #28) and pack it with grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0889.JPG)
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0890.JPG)
install the bearing, lube and install the main gear.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0891.JPG)
push the dog (key #26) back until the main gear drops into position.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0892.JPG)
install the gear shaft thrust washer (key #6) and gear shaft shield (key #5).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0893.JPG)
install the handle (key #206) and handle nut (key #3).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0894.JPG)
install the handle lock (key #2) and screw (key #1).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0895.JPG)
install the right side plate assembly and screws (key #24).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0896.JPG)
install the lever quadrant (key #191) and screws (key #19, 20, and 21).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0897.JPG)
install the drag control lever (key #12) in the free position.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0898.JPG)
install the lever shaft body (key #11) and add a little grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0899.JPG)
install the pre-program dial (key #9) and you're done!
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0900.JPG)
these modifications accomplish several things. first, it eliminates the risk of drag failure from the canvas drag that comes stock in this reel and all the other single speed shimano lever drag reels. a sticky drag washer is the leading cause of structural damage to any reel. second, cleaning out the bearings will improve freespool and the castability of this reel, as well as decrease the risk of corrosion if the bearings have shields. open bearings are now found in all shimano reels for a good reason. and lastly, the increased drag range means that this reels can be loaded with 65 pound spectra and topshots of 30, 40 or 50# mono. all this in a 3/0 sized package! this reel benched out a 15 pounds of drag at strike before loss of free spool, and had a freespool time of 35 seconds at that 15 pound strike setting.
QuoteThe question I have is on my TLD 15. Decided to leave the bellevilles/spacers alone for now (glad I did-fewer variables to troubleshoot my problem). Degreased and oiled the 2 spool and 1 drag plate bearings (they were open). Changed the drag washer to greased Carbontex. The only other thing I did was some 1200 grit polishing on the inside of the pinion gear and the spool shaft where the pinion rides - saw that on a thread on Bloody Decks you were part of. The drag feels great and the freespool is up to 35-40 seconds with 10# strike setting. The issue is I noticed when checking freespool that tilting the reel 45* to the right (like a right-handed caster would) causes the spool to stop in seconds (even when it's hauling #### at the start). Tilting to the left does nothing (might even help a little). I've got a TLD 20 single-speed that's never been apart, and tilting it left or right during freespool has no effect on it. I've used your site and the drawing to check my reassembly 3 times. Have you ever heard of this? Any suggestions? Should I be concerned?
yeah, this "tilting to the right and stopping" business is found in any reel with a bearing sleeve that is cut too long. the "c-clip" on the spool shaft that sits next to the right spool bearing functions as a bearing sleeve and it is "too long." to fix it, you either need to shim the bearing cup or remove the c-clip and cut a bearing sleeve to fit. as for the pinion gear, don't bother polishing it. it actually does not affect freespool. alan
Hello, I bought some preloaded springs (TT-0040A) from Mike's Reel Repair and the inside diameter of the preloaded springs is much larger than the stock preloaded springs. There is a lot of space between the preloaded springs and the spool shaft and I'm not getting great results. Is it possible that they sent me the wrong springs or have I done something else wrong?
Thanks,
Eric
the inside and outside diameters should be the same. the tt 40a's should be thicker and that is the only difference. you may have the wrong ones. they are in short supply right now. i am having an order of 300 made up but it will be another month.
Quote from: alantani on February 24, 2009, 04:09:51 PM
QuoteThe question I have is on my TLD 15. Decided to leave the bellevilles/spacers alone for now (glad I did-fewer variables to troubleshoot my problem). Degreased and oiled the 2 spool and 1 drag plate bearings (they were open). Changed the drag washer to greased Carbontex. The only other thing I did was some 1200 grit polishing on the inside of the pinion gear and the spool shaft where the pinion rides - saw that on a thread on Bloody Decks you were part of. The drag feels great and the freespool is up to 35-40 seconds with 10# strike setting. The issue is I noticed when checking freespool that tilting the reel 45* to the right (like a right-handed caster would) causes the spool to stop in seconds (even when it's hauling #### at the start). Tilting to the left does nothing (might even help a little). I've got a TLD 20 single-speed that's never been apart, and tilting it left or right during freespool has no effect on it. I've used your site and the drawing to check my reassembly 3 times. Have you ever heard of this? Any suggestions? Should I be concerned?
yeah, this "tilting to the right and stopping" business is found in any reel with a bearing sleeve that is cut too long. the "c-clip" on the spool shaft that sits next to the right spool bearing functions as a bearing sleeve and it is "too long." to fix it, you either need to shim the bearing cup or remove the c-clip and cut a bearing sleeve to fit. as for the pinion gear, don't bother polishing it. it actually does not affect freespool. alan
I have a TLD 15 Triton that has never been taken apart that has the "tilting to the right and stopping" problem. It worked fine for about 1 1/2 to 2 years, and now it has this issue. Any idea what I should do to fix it?
The guy that got the preload springs that had too big a hole in them isn't the only one that has had that happen too. I ordered in Dallas and got the bigger ones. Ordered again and got the correct ones. I say "ordered" but actually went to the Shimano distributor here and picked them up.
I noticed that the spool has a little bit of left and right play when inserting it into the frame. I think if I push it all the way one direction then it doesn't spin as long when tilted to that direction. I couldn't seem to find a good middle ground, and it seemed that it would be easy for it to get adjusted either direction by accident. Also, when I tilt it to the right and it's in free spool, and I turn the crank, it's grabbing the spool just enough to turn the spool. Maybe there needs to be an extra washer in there? Upon breaking the reel down I noticed that I was missing #36 "Bearing Thrust Washer". Is this something I can get from a hardware store, or do I have to go to a service center?
Thanks for your time
JG
no, it needs a bearing sleeve. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=138.0
Quote from: alantani on April 17, 2011, 11:53:13 PM
no, it needs a bearing sleeve. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=138.0
Ok, thanks for the info, is there a reason why it would work fine for a year or so and then now needs a bearing sleeve? Just corrosion of parts?
Alright, just tested my newer TLD 15, I guess it's 8-10 months old. It's not been serviced but it too has a slower free spool when tilted to the right, reeling while in free spool when tilted to the right also turns the spool very slightly. I guess this is just a known thing with TLDs.
Also, is the tilting to the right problem just an aesthetics thing or does it really hinder the reel in a fish battle? Thanks for the help, last question ;D
the "tilting" issue was there from the beginning. when you're on a fish, it will not be a problem.
I was looking at the website for shimano, under TLD 15 the drag they have listed is " titanium fiber washer", is this the same "felt" washer everyone speaks of replacing with the carbonmatrix drags? THanks.
yes, the felt washer that you describe is actually canvas. shimano calls it titanium and i do not know why.
Hello Alan,
Have you received the shipment of correct TT40A's? I just received a shipment from back east, and they are the wrong ones. I rather just order from you then deal with shipping them back and waiting another 2 weeks.
got 'em! and they're only 25 cents each. i just dropped 6 in the mail to you. alan
gday. i rebuilt my tld15 a year ago with your excellent tutorial and it worked well for a bit but eventually i lost freespool again.
i have found if i pull the drag lever into the freespool position and give the handle a number of winds though the freespool improves? any idea why that could be?
Sounds like the main shaft isn't moving freely.
The cross-pin end of the main shaft may be binding up in the frame - I've come across this before in a TLD25.
Winding a few turns may be just enough to loosen the shaft, allowing it to move left into a free-spool position.
If this is the case, you should see the drag preload knob move in a fraction during the first wind or two while in free-spool.
All the best, Justin
the pressure plate rides on a bearing. it sounds like the bearing is not sliding easily on the spool shaft. check there first.
Alan,
Just used your tutorial for the first time to take apart a tld 15 to fix the drag... works great now!!!! Thanks.
BodegaErik
any chance i can temp you with a stainless steel handle arm and a 4/0 kolekar grip?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_03_09_11_9_46_53_5461853.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_03_09_11_9_47_24_54621324.jpeg)
I can thoroughly vouch for this upgrade - works a treat and a worthwhile investment, especially if you've hot-rodded the drag and bellevilles...
Cheers Alan!
Justin
Alan,
Can't temp me with anything right now.... Just trying to keep the gear that I have in working order!! After I get a new boat in the next 5-10 years, then I'll be looking at upgrading equipment!!
Thanks for the great tutorials.....
updated pdf link
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/techdocs/en/TLD15_v1_m56577569830498877.pdf
Alan,
Upgraded my tld 15 per your tutorial. Used the Penn drag, the heavier bellville washers and added a Kolekar handle and grip. What a great package! Got to break it in on a near 50# yellowfin last month on the Iman bank out of Cabo San Jose, Baja. The handle makes it easy, plus the drag upgrade puts plenty of pressure on the fish.
Thanks Alan - learning to maintain my own reels is making fishing even more fun!
I purchased a used tld 15. I noticed that some times when i put the reel in free spool, it wont free spool. If i press on the drag adjustment knob, it clicks to the left and the reel free spools. Where do i find out more info on upgrading reel and where do i buy the parts?
Thanks
someone else had the same problem.
Quote
Quote from: troutman561 on August 26, 2010, 01:30:48 AM
Hi Alan, I am not sure if my message I sent earlier made it because I had nothing in my outbox so I am going to try again. I just pulled my 15 year old TLD 20 apart and greased everything and replaced the main drive shaft bearing. It free spools great and everything feels smooth. The problem I am having is when it is in free spool the preprogram dial is in towards the reel like it should be and all is well. When I engage the drag to strike, it pops out like it should but when I move it back into free spool the dial will not pop back towards the reel until I just slightly nudge it in a clockwise direction. At this point it goes back into free spool. I took it all apart and checked everything and all seems well.. Any ideas? Thanks, Ryan
check the left side plate. often the graphite will swell and the spool shaft will not travel right to left as easily as it should. see the hole for the spool shaft and cross pin? yup, it's probably binding right there.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0991.JPG)
pull the spool shaft and cross pin out of the spool. first, take the spool shaft alone and see how well it fits. if it's too tight, go in with a round file and lightly file each side of the hole, then recheck it. ok, it spool shaft slides easily now? good. let's check the cross pin.
install the cross pin into the spool shaft and try sliding it in and out of the hole in the left side plate. it's stuck as well? no surprise. get a small flat file and file down all four surfaces of the slot that the cross pin fits into. again, do this slowy. too much and you'll need a new frame. get this right and the reel should pop in and out of gear easily. um, if that is the problem......... :-\
Hi Alan, I've just completed the overhaul of my TLD15 and it needed most of the tricks, including filing out the side plate so the shaft will float nicely. I got my parts from Mikes reel Repair, although they neglected to tell me until the drag washer arrived that they were out of stock of the beefier bellevilles, so i have reassembled with the old ones. All seemed sweet but on testing...
1. I can wind the pre-program the whole way up, not lose freespool, but I only get 11lb of drag at strike and 20lb at full
2. As I add drag, the handle gets harder to turn, at full drag, it's useless.
I assume that the Pinion bearing may have something to do with issue 2? Aside from the bellevilles I'm at a loss for issue 1. Any ideas?
Cheers
Mike
G'day and welcome Mike,
Re: question one, around 15lbs is the practical limit for this reel, as higher settings will compromise the pinon bearing.
This, unfortunately, also answers your second question - a new bearing is likely required.
Hope that's of some assistance.
Cheers, Justin
Cheers Justin. Seeing as your also in Aucks, where is the best place to get one?
I've got a bunch - I work in Onehunga, if you're in the neighbourhood.
If you're nearer the Shore, Auckland Bearings (on Diana Drive) are great.
Either that or PM your address and I'll post one out.
Cheers, Justin
Awesome. I'm At Ruapehu till tomorrow night but could pop past on Wednesday? What's the damage?
PM sent with address etc...
Where can i get a new CF washer for this reel? Smooth drag?
Yep - $15...
After the belleville upgrade and removing a shim should there still be a tiny bit of freeplay in the shaft? I'm talking about this area and stack of components here...
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0869.JPG)
Should I retrun the shim or mill it down so freeplay is eliminated? Any caliper measurements to compare? Thanks in advance.
there should not be more than 10 thousanths worth of play. usually it's less. don't worry for now. just throw it back together and see how well it works first.
Hello all, just joined the site and Im excited as I've been blue water fishing for years but have just looked into servicing and upgrading my own reels. Im from louisiana and fish predominantly at the mouth of the river in Venice. Bottom fishing for snapper, AJs and grouper along with blue water trolling and chunking for tuna wahoo and billfish are what we mostly do. I plan on making this tld15 my first project. Is there a place where I can find a list of the parts needed for this upgrade. Where do you guys generally get your spare parts. Thanks in advance. I look forward to gaining knowledge from all of you Guys.
Sushiassassin,
Welcome and glad to have ya.
Drag Washer - SmoothDrag.com I believe it's $15.
Bellevilles - Shimano. We have been switching them out for the ones that come on the TLD20s and TLD30s. They are slightly thicker. you will notice the difference.
Other than that, it's a great, affordable reel, so go fishing and have fun.
Thanks Bryan. What reel grease and lube do you guys prefer? I've looked on other forums and there wasn't really any consensus on what was the most preferred.
regarding the grease, I have used Evinrude Triple Guard, and now use Yamaha Marine Grease for most applications. Others use Inox marine grease. In short, there are many great greases out there. it's a matter of cost, availability, and your personal history. Any good marine grease is better than none at all.
Drag grease, I use Cal's. Shimano, Daiwa, and I believe Penn has a drag grease as well. Others have used First Line Teflon bicycle grease. Again, it's a matter of cost and availability.
Sorry about all the questions. I'm looking on smooth drag and I'm not sure which drag washer to buy. Should I buy the Carbontex washer for the TLD15?
Carbontex is one of the Best. I just bought 5 Sets for myself. Also bought bearings from Dawn at Smooth Drag
I was buying the spring from the 20/30 on Mikes Reel Repair and was looking to buy a few things to put myself at the $10 minimum. Would the Shimano bearing upgrade that's available for the TLD series fit on the TLD 15?
I've done 6 of these now for the kayak guys and they love the way the reels work after the upgrades. Very well work the few bucks..!!
Is the TLD 10 a wide spool version of he TLD 15 like the 15/30 star is to the 20/40 star?
Thanks
Quote from: Pacific Fisher on August 01, 2013, 05:01:12 AM
Is the TLD 10 a wide spool version of he TLD 15 like the 15/30 star is to the 20/40 star?
Thanks
The TLD 10 (no longer made) is a narrow version of the TLD 15, plus it is a bit smaller in diameter. The TLD5 (no longer made) is a narrow version of the TLD10.
I just opened up another TLD15 but this one had extra parts. It had a bronze thrust washer in between the c-clip and bearing. This pushes the bearings further towards the right. Here's what I'm seeing, pic taken from a TLD10 post... (http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j335/redsetta/ShimanoTLD10/TLD10-4.jpg)
This reel has never been opened. It also has the dreaded tilt to the right and spool stoppage issue and I was planning on adding a bearing sleeve to remedy it. Would this extra part call for a different length bearing sleeve than one 1.419 measurement posted here? http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2655.0
I've tried reassembling without the thrust washer and it seems to make no difference in performance with or without it. But the spool stoppage issue exists either way.
Any insight is appreciated.
Alan
Looking for handle upgrades for 2 TLD15's. I'm after 2/0 Kolekar handles on ss handles blanks with no counterweight. Have you any handle blanks that would suit?
the handle arm i have is counterbalanced and is a copy of the original shimano arm, in tribute to shimano. they have a great reel. for the grip, i am now down to just two sizes, the 3/0 bait handle trip and the 5/0 trolling handle grip. the 3/0 with the stainless steel arm is what i would recommend for you.
I am looking at one, with the Alan Tani upgrades, and planning on using them with 20-30# test, live bait for yellowtail, white sea bass, small tuna, and barracuda fishing.
I see people using these for 20-40# line, but I have seen a thread on another forum stating the TLD 15 (out of the box) is a 15# line class reel, and recommended at 5# of drag. Then others have said a pin connected to the main gear (???) will shear off the reel through extended, heavy use. Does anybody have any experience with these and any problems they may have?
Thanks, Scott.
I have 6 or 8 TLD 15's and have run as high as 50 lb line on some right out of the box. I have never had a problem and at least 3 of them date back to the original release of the reel back in the 80's. I don't know what pin they are talking about but I have seen one that spun the gear on it's shaft where it is staked on. I considered it a fluke. BTW, I have at least 2 of every TLD made except the 50 and consider them great reels.
Hey, Alan
Did you manage to get those handles & bits off in the post? Getting desperate now....
I serviced mine today, first LD serviced ever! Only one thing, before and after i was getting 4-5lbs at strike and like 15-16 at full. Is that normal?
Depends on what the preset dial is set to.
Something not right if full drag is giving 3x strike. Think the cam is designed to give around strike +80% at full.
I'd try pulling it all apart again. If you've got more than one TLD15, you might have mixed up the cams between reels? I had this problem with my 4 TLD20's. trial and error swapping the cams between reels fixed it.
FYI - just fitted CF drag and TLD20 2 speed bellevilles to my TLD15's. Now getting 13lb at strike & just shy of 20lb at full which more or less fits in with the +80% stated above
Nope it's just one reel. I'll figure it out after I get done with the nightmare my lx is
I just went thru a friends TLD15 and installed the carbon drag and larger TLDII bellville washers. When I first re-assembled I noticed that there was no free-spool, and the spool had a significant amount of drag and it felt like the spool was pushed to one side or something. When I opened it back up, it appeared to me that the bellville stack was loading up the spool bearings so I removed the thinnest copper washer (#58) and left the other two (#47's). It now works great, there is a small amount of side-to-side play in the spool but nothing crazy. I'm surprised that the very thin copper washer made that much difference. The amount of side-play in the spool feels like its greater than the thickness of the washer.
Did I just do something incorrect the first time, and just happened to have fixed it the second time?
Or does this sound normal for this reel?
HI Alan,
In your breakdown you swapped in the heavier bellevilles and removed one of the three shims. I've had to remove two of the three shims to get freespool, is this an issue?
Cheers,
Andrew
not as long as it works!
Does anyone know why the main shaft (clicker end) is burred (flared) on this tld15? The lever drag wasn't working (kept popping loose) as the main shaft wasn't returning into the frame causing slack on the lever end of the main shaft.
I have filed it back into shape and is now working well.
Will install carbonex washer as soon as it arrives.
Any ideas as to what caused this??
I just finished solving the exact same problem on a 50/80 Beastmaster. I suspect the flar/burr on the end of the spool ahaft may be due to pushing the lever to full when it is set past the recommended max drag setting. This would put pressure directly on the end of the spool shaft. This would be more likely to occur with flattened/old Bellevilles or shorter spool shaft spacing issues.
Thanks for that. I did also notice something up with the side casing. Appears the shaft may have pushed through and someone has glued it back together.
I had suspected a decent drop may have been the cause of this but it makes complete sense to me now
Looks like I just learnt something.. pre set drags to spec and nit beyond.
Cheers
Antz
Not sure why this happened because this reel uses a pull bar system where the spool is pulled to the right to engage the drag.
Quote from: Bryan Young on March 21, 2015, 03:45:36 PM
Not sure why this happened because this reel uses a pull bar system where the spool is pulled to the right to engage the drag.
Duh...probably due to a drop then. Or too little space on the shaft and a drop.
I was thinkimg of the other reels where I had noticed this issue. They typically had flattened Bellevilkes, and noticable damage or signs of contact with the left side plate.
On the TLD's, the shaft hole goes all the way through the endplate. There is just a label covering it. I don't necessarily think it was dropped or anything. It's common to see the label like that. It's just a piece of paper.
Hey gang, what's the best method for removing the metal shield on ball bearings? Thanks!
A fishhook or knife is what I use.
Quote from: Rmpsocal on October 25, 2015, 10:36:48 PM
Hey gang, what's the best method for removing the metal shield on ball bearings? Thanks!
If you're not going to place them back, this is working out great for me:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1971.msg10129#msg10129
If you have to place them back in, you will need a small hook or a exacto knife, it is still hard to do, but can be done if you have patience.
Thanks!
Just wanted to share a pic of the 20# Yellowtail I caught yesterday on a TLD reel you all helped me rebuild. The reel was "hot-rodded" with a Kolekar handle, smoooooth drag carbon washers, and Bellevilles from Alan!
Thanks for the tips!
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/rmpvegas/fb4b74b238b9f773baf77e92b706235d_zpspkcemljc.jpg)
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0866.JPG)
the last small bearing on the left is really stuck on the shaft, I couldnt moved it a bit, used a flat screwdriver between both bearings (it was almost all the way pressed against the other bearing) and made twists movement with the screwdriver but no luck, left it on a bath of oil for few hours and still no luck, I also tried some short but strong hits with the tip of the screwdriver on were the bearing meets the shafts and still nothing.
any other trick to separate the bearing from the shaft?
Maybe drill a hole in a piece of wood clamped to a bench, then heat everything up, and tap the shaft out. Or you could just order a new shaft along with the bearing.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on May 18, 2016, 06:48:51 PM
Or you could just order a new shaft along with the bearing.
I am really considering this option.
You will have to heat it and knock it off. Heat does amazing things.
Hi Guys
Regarding the packing of the bearings with grease during service , has anybody found they can generate better free spool times by simply cleaning the bearings with an aerosol cleaner , then using fine oil rather than grease ? Just a thought , not sure of the question has been covered . Have achieved good results upgrading the drag washers , releases line smoothly for sure , will have to try upgrading the pre load belleville washers , looks good !!
Oiling bearings instead of greasing to increase free spool is an old topic. It's been done for years. Try TSI 321 oil for your bearings. Nothing else has been found so far for the best free spool.
Perhaps the question that no one seems to address as much, is:
How much free spool do I really need for real world fishing conditions?
If a client wants to be impressed by a reel they are considering purchasing -- they spin the spool to see how much free spool it has. While that is a good indicator of a clean reel inside (whether used or new) -- unless casting for competition -- it has very little value in real fishing conditions.
If I have 4 or 6 ounces of lead on my reel -- it is going down to my desired depth very quickly with or without grease -- and with or without oil.
Proper MARINE (salt water resistant) grease is essential to maintain your reels for years to come.
There are of course exceptions -- and others will chime in here with their good opinions -- about how Newells cast, Shimanos cast, Penns, and all the rest -- but for 90% of most anglers fishing, protection, and performance of their reels in the salt -- good grease along with knowledge of how your equipment operates -- is key.
Just my opinions.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: RowdyW on July 01, 2016, 04:26:19 PM
Oiling bearings instead of greasing to increase free spool is an old topic. It's been done for years. Try TSI 321 oil for your bearings. Nothing else has been found so far for the best free spool.
Thanks brother and apologies if it's a covered topic , still wanted a thought from out in the universe :)
Fred, as usual you nailed it exactly.
Jamie D, no apologies needed. I'm sure he was just being helpful stating it's been a topic of discussion. We like getting new faces here. Your thoughts and questions are welcome.
I'm still asking Fred something once a week at least. ;D
https://youtu.be/UykPl8T_jn0
Little video I made as a fan of the Tld , this is my spin on how I do a service
Hi every one, hope your all keeping well, & leaving some fish in the ocean for me, My question is, just breaking down a TLD 15 for the first time, I am having trouble getting the spool shaft to slide out of the face plate, not game to place any real force on it, incase I do some damage, any secrets, thanks in advance, cheers Don.
Don, it sounds like the spool shaft is corroded in the outer bearing. Try getting some penetrating oil in there & holding the spool while pulling & rocking the plate from side to side. Rudy
Yes thanks Rudy, I managed to get it, you are right again, the pinion & bearing were fixed to the spool shaft, I had to work the main gear out, all @ once, managed to place some auto transmission fluid & acetone 50/50 in from the outside & the inside, just for other people that come across this, the main gear has to come out, to get the bearing out, I washed the acetone of as soon as I could, just in case it done any harm to the face plate, or any plastic @ the end of the spool, Thanks all the same Rudy, for your fast reply, cheers Don.
Don, just don't try to remove the little clip that holds the dog spring on. The top of that post breaks off easily & then you have to replace the plate. :o
Thanks Rudy, I wasn't aware of that, good point, I did take a good look @ it, only cleaned it & lubed, thank again, cheers Don.
Okay I have my 15, back together, stripped it right down, completed all the magic, you recommended, Rudy, it is running a treat, once again Rudy, thanks for your help, & fast replies, cheers Don., also serviced a Diawa 250 today, it runs well, my first time for both of these reels.
Hi all! I've got several TLD 15 and TLD 20 reels that have served me well over the years. They've been used only on our annual vacations to the Florida Keys so they are in great shape. recently bought a Florida condo and will now be here for 6 months out of the year so I want to update a few of the TLD 15s with the carbon drag washer. I've got 2 carbontex washers and drag grease on order.
2 questions:
When I upgrade the drag washer must I also upgrade to the belleville bearings?
Is the drag washer grease applied to both sides of the washer or just the inside of the washer?
Thanks for your help.
If your drag range is satisfactory then you don't need to change your Belleville washers.
Regarding greasing one side or both sides, I would grease both sides. It will protect your spool and washer from salt intrusion.
Thanks for your reply Bryan. Just a follow up question....
You mentioned drag range. Do you mean that the bellevilles will let me set a higher drag range but still have freespool? Right now with the factory felt drag washer if I use my preset (with lever in freespool) to set the drag relatively high at the strike position, I notice that there is some tension on the spool when reeling. Would the bellevilles correct this?
Quote from: sermak on February 01, 2018, 02:15:01 PM
Thanks for your reply Bryan. Just a follow up question....
You mentioned drag range. Do you mean that the bellevilles will let me set a higher drag range but still have freespool? Right now with the factory felt drag washer if I use my preset (with lever in freespool) to set the drag relatively high at the strike position, I notice that there is some tension on the spool when reeling. Would the bellevilles correct this?
How much drag are you looking for? A TLD 15 is really a 30lb class reel and IMO, 12 lb.s at strike is plenty for this reel. Anymore and you are looking at trouble down the road. If you have resistance already, than your pinion bearing is probably toast from too much drag. More common in Avets but all levers have this problem.
The Belleville's will change the ramp rate from free to full. If the reel has a slower ramp rate you may not achieve the upper drag limit you are seeking.
I just finished upgrading a couple of my TLD15s. I ended up doing both the carbon drag washer and the thicker bellevilles. I followed Alan's instructions here and everything went smoothly. The reels freespool nicely and the drag ramps ups faster and higher with the new bellevilles.
I have to ask though....I assume the bellevilles are to be installed on the shaft in opposite directions with their outside edges touching. Is this correct? I don't know that this is ever mentioned in Alan's thread but the original, factory bellevilles seem to have been installed like this.
Thanks.
You have them right. Facing each other like this ().
Beautiful! Thanks for clearing that up. Even though both reels are working great, that would have been nagging at me. :)
Was wondering about Spacer B, key #58 at the end of the spool shaft. I think I see it in the disassembled picture but not when you re-assembled with one less Spacer A, key #47. Did you leave this out too? I ask because I just tore down one of my TLD 15s and believe someone already did your upgrade but there is no Spacer B, key 58 in my reel.
Also, how long should a dry bearing spin or how else can I tell if it's ok?
Thanks!
Quote from: scharebear on June 19, 2018, 03:37:28 AM
Was wondering about Spacer B, key #58 at the end of the spool shaft. I think I see it in the disassembled picture but not when you re-assembled with one less Spacer A, key #47. Did you leave this out too? I ask because I just tore down one of my TLD 15s and believe someone already did your upgrade but there is no Spacer B, key 58 in my reel.
Also, how long should a dry bearing spin or how else can I tell if it's ok?
Thanks!
yes, i did leave the washer out. good catch! for dry bearings, 10 seconds is a very long time! i've been getting less picky about bearings.
yes, i did leave the washer out. good catch! for dry bearings, 10 seconds is a very long time! i've been getting less picky about bearings.
[/quote]
Sorry to belabor the point. So I don't need Spacer B? This doesn't leave too much play on the spool shaft?
the heavier bellevilles take up the space.
Thanks!
Hi Alan,
Hope you're doing good. Please help me overcome a mind block!
I recently got hold of a TLD15 in reasonably good condition. I shall be replacing the stock drag with a Penn HT100 washer, however, there is something I just am not able to negotiate with. In my dull mind, I imagine that the drag washer should revolve with the spool and all the braking should occur because of the friction between the drag washer and the steel drag plate. All the lever drags I have had and have serviced have had immovable drag washers that revolved with the spool and rubbed against the drag plate, except the TLD15. Don't you think this arrangement of an unfixed drag washer makes the drag sort of unstable?
I am changing the washer anyhow... just wanted your expert opinion on it.
Cheers,
Ijlal
smoothdrag.com makes a drag washer for this reel and can ship to you. there is a #6-25 ht-100 drag washer that is very close. if you have trouble finding one, let me know and i might be able to help, but i generally recommend the carbontex drag washers from smoothdrag. as far as the drag being able to move, it will be locked in place when you screw down the large spool cap. i see it called a cooling shield. not sure why they gave it that name. anyway, the cooling shield will lock the drag washer in place.
Quote from: alantani on July 08, 2018, 11:07:44 PM
as far as the drag being able to move, it will be locked in place when you screw down the large spool cap. i see it called a cooling shield. not sure why they gave it that name. anyway, the cooling shield will lock the drag washer in place.
Thanks Alan, that explains it.
Quote from: alantani on July 08, 2018, 11:07:44 PM
smoothdrag.com makes a drag washer for this reel and can ship to you. there is a #6-25 ht-100 drag washer that is very close. if you have trouble finding one, let me know and i might be able to help, but i generally recommend the carbontex drag washers from smoothdrag.
Today, I was amazed to see some Penn lever drag washers at a local tackle shop. If I find the 6-25 washer, I'll get that and do the modification on my TLD. If not, I'll let you know.
Update:
I could not find #6-25 drag washer but got a couple of larger washers, cut one crudely, with a pair of scissors - not very accurately, but it doesn't matter as long as I haven't cut it too small. I also found some extra bellevilles, so I'm all set.
Also bought a #6-114HSP set with which, I'll try and upgrade a friend's Daiwa 600H. ;D
I'll update once done.
Cheers,
Ijlal
remember that first class postage is very slow from the united states to your country, but it does work!
This is a terrific tutorial, thanks! I'm servicing my TLD15 reels for the first time and these instructions and photos have been valuable.
2 things to add here:
1) One thought I would offer to others who might read this string is, during reassembly, it may take more time than you think to properly reset the preprogram dial (key #9), the lever shaft body (key #11) and "O" ring (key #10), and drag control lever (key #12). Getting those adjusted properly was more nuanced than I knew. I kept getting either zero response... the spool wouldn't spin at all, let alone the drag not working. I dissembled/reassembled my TLDs at least 6 times trying to understand the problem. I kept thinking it was the pinion gear (key #198) that was poorly seated or even the side plate bearing (key #28) was malfunctioning. In the end, it seems that by fiddling with the drag control lever and pre-program dial I was able to get the drag to work better. They are not 100% as new and the drag feels rough but at least they work now. I'll keep fiddling with these.
2) I do have a odd scenario with 2 TLD15 reels. 1 of my TLD15 reels makes the classic 'clicking' during retrieval... which I believe is result of the click pawl (key # 231) and click spring (key #57) working properly. However my other TLD15 reel doesn't make this clicking sound much, it's only faint. Seems to work OK however I wonder if it's a problem if the reel spool isn't completely seated so that the click pawl is engaged. Does anyone else have that problem?
Thanks.
the lever is in the free position when you put everything together, right? you shouldn't have a problem.
as for the clicking, usually the more muffled anti-reverse pawl has grease on it.
Alan, thanks. Yes, the drag is in open position (partly as that's the only position in which I can remove the drag lever. I've disassembled the reel again and will continue to tinker with it. I still get the faint clicking at the pawl (not loud like my other TLD) but the lack of clicking doesn't seem to affect the operation of the reel.
I've ordered the carbonex drag washers as you recommended and will install those shortly.
This may not be the right thread to ask this but...how does upgrading to a larger [belleville] washer increase the drag range? I tend to repair things better when I know how it works (I'm not the most technical of folks).
As I understand it, this thread talks about 2 smart upgrades:
a) "improve the strength of the drag": you do this via upgrade to the carbon fabric washer that sits adjacent to the spool, replacing the khaki-colored OEM fabric washer. That's simple, easy to do, requires 1 part from smooothdrag.com. Alan's tutorial above is great.
b) " improve the range of the drag" you do this via upgrade 1 of the left-side spool washers (only 1, and you also should remove 1 small spacer to accomodate the fit) using one from a TLD20/30, referred to in various threads as a belleville washer. That requires 1 part avail from vendors like Mike's reel repair (pn listed above). Alan's pictures and descriptions above are great.
I may have this wrong but, by increasing the size of the spool washer, doesn't that decrease the distance between it (which sits on the left side of the spool) and where the drag is applied (on the right side of the spool)? Logically, it seems like by decreasing that dimension, it would decrease the drag range, not increase it.
I definitely plan to make the upgrade and don't want to sound like a contrarian. I'd just value hearing from others on how this actually works.
Much thanks.
stiffer bellevilles, or just a stiffer configuration will ramp up the drag faster.
ah, ok. It isn't the slightly wider [thicker] dimension the bellevilles offer, it's the stiffer characteristics they offer to the drag.
thanks!
Quote from: alantani on June 24, 2018, 03:35:38 PM
the heavier bellevilles take up the space.
So what behavior would I see if I didn't remove spacers to allow for thicker Bellevilles? And what would happen if there was too much space created after removing spacers?
I have tried leaving a spacer in and everything seemed to still work fine.
As long as it works........
Quote from: alantani on September 04, 2011, 04:51:00 AM
any chance i can temp you with a stainless steel handle arm and a 4/0 kolekar grip?
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_03_09_11_9_46_53_5461853.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/5/1_03_09_11_9_47_24_54621324.jpeg)
Do you still make these handles and grips for sale?
Got the arm with a 3/0 grip.
Quote from: alantani on August 20, 2018, 03:05:23 AM
Got the arm with a 3/0 grip.
And what do those run? Thanks
They're $40 plus shipping. There is also a $15 carbontex drag washer from smoothdrag.com. Let me know if I can tempt you with one!
it's possible to shim the spool of the tld 15 as well, though it's not really needed. the "kit" would be a pair of heavy duty bellevilles from the tld 20/25 or 20/30. you would also shim the right spool with a combination of washers that have a 12mm outside diameter and a total of 1.85mm to 1.90m thickness.
Guys I am putting back together a tld 10 and have a small brass spacer and small black plastic type spaced that I cannot seem to figure out where they go. Will post pics if I can figure it out
(http://img_0021.heic)
first guess, under the drag lever?
Sent you a email Alan maybe you can post pic for future users with same problem. The black spacer is plastic and has a little screw hole in it like It should go on the right side plate somewhere but I got no extra holes to fill 😬. That brass spacer must go on spool shaft somewhere with that small washer.
Hi folks, I just bought a pair of secondhand Tld 15 reels and both feel a little rough/grinding when turning the handle, especially as drag is increased. I'm thinking that the pinion bearings need replacing? When I take the side plate off, the pinion gear is stuck in the bearing- should it pull out with ease or does it need wd40 and/or more force? I'm probably missing something obvious! Thanks in advance, Tim.
remove the main gear, then pull the pinion gear and bearing out as a unit, then lightly tap out the gear.
Thank you for the lightning-fast reply Alan! :)
Found a TLD 15 at a yard sale for $1. Lots of boat rash but will take it apart and clean and lube
Quote from: alantani on December 07, 2008, 05:21:36 PM
the shimano tld 15's were the first lever drag reels that i started working on. it seems like ages ago, but it was really just a few short years. in that time, i've learned a tremendous amount about lever drag reels. what were going to do is put in heavier belleville pressure washers to increase the drag range, clean out the bearings to increase freespool time and decrease the risk of corrosion, and install a greased carbon fiber drag washer. here's the schematic....
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_15_ARB_v1_m56577569830570243.pdf
here's a brand new tld 15 spooled up with 65 pound braid.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0855.JPG)
remove the preprogram dial (key #9), the lever shaft body (key #11) and "O" ring (key #10), and drag control lever (key #12). Note that there is no spring.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0856.JPG)
remove the lever quadrant (key #191) and screws (key #19, 20 and 21).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0857.JPG)
there are 5 side plate bolts (key #24) to remove.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0858.JPG)
separate out the frame, spool and side plate.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0859.JPG)
add a little grease to the click pawl (key # 231) and click spring (key #57)>
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/103_0860.JPG)
install the rod clamp. grease the bolts first.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0861.JPG)
remove the cooling shield (key #186), drag plate assembly and drag washer (key #68).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0862.JPG)
remove the click gear (key #48), screws (key #49) and cross pin B (key # 50).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0865.JPG)
here's the main shaft (key #200) with all washers, springs and bearings in place.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0866.JPG)
and here it is disassembled.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0867.JPG)
i've cleaned out and relubed the bearings (key #42 and 170) with corrosion x. if you have an older reel with shielded bearings, take the time now to pry out the shields and throw them away.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0868.JPG)
i've reassembled the left side of the main shaft using the heavier pre-load springs (belleville's) from the shimano tld 20/30 two speed, part #TT-0040A. to accomodate the extra width of the new belleville washers, i've removed one of the thrust washers on the end, spacer A (key #47).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0869.JPG)
install the click gear (key #48) and screws (key #49).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0870.JPG)
grease the inside of the spool and new carbon fiber drag washer. you have your choice of either the penn #6-25 or the avet jx drag washer.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0872.JPG)
and remove all the excess grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0874.JPG)
install the bearings (key #170) and pressure release spring (key #202), the drag plate assembly and cooling shield (key #186).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0875.JPG)
install cross pin B (key #50).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0881.JPG)
slide the spool assembly back into the frame. now, this is important. if the spool does not slide back and forth easily inside the frame, pull the spool out again and rotate the main shaft (key #100) 180 degrees and slide it back in. this works!
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0882.JPG)
install the pinion gear (key #198) and set the spool and frame assembly aside.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0883.JPG)
here's a shot of the right main side plate bearing. we need to pull this out and pack it with heavy grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0884.JPG)
remove the handle lock (key #2) and screw (key #1).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0885.JPG)
remove the handle nut (key #3) and handle (key #206).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0886.JPG)
remove the gear shaft shield (key #5) and thrust washer (key #6), and line everything up.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0887.JPG)
let the main gear (key #197) drop straight out.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0888.JPG)
pull the right main side plate bearing (key #28) and pack it with grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0889.JPG)
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0890.JPG)
install the bearing, lube and install the main gear.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0891.JPG)
push the dog (key #26) back until the main gear drops into position.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0892.JPG)
install the gear shaft thrust washer (key #6) and gear shaft shield (key #5).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0893.JPG)
install the handle (key #206) and handle nut (key #3).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0894.JPG)
install the handle lock (key #2) and screw (key #1).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0895.JPG)
install the right side plate assembly and screws (key #24).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0896.JPG)
install the lever quadrant (key #191) and screws (key #19, 20, and 21).
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0897.JPG)
install the drag control lever (key #12) in the free position.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0898.JPG)
install the lever shaft body (key #11) and add a little grease.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0899.JPG)
install the pre-program dial (key #9) and you're done!
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0900.JPG)
these modifications accomplish several things. first, it eliminates the risk of drag failure from the canvas drag that comes stock in this reel and all the other single speed shimano lever drag reels. a sticky drag washer is the leading cause of structural damage to any reel. second, cleaning out the bearings will improve freespool and the castability of this reel, as well as decrease the risk of corrosion if the bearings have shields. open bearings are now found in all shimano reels for a good reason. and lastly, the increased drag range means that this reels can be loaded with 65 pound spectra and topshots of 30, 40 or 50# mono. all this in a 3/0 sized package! this reel benched out a 15 pounds of drag at strike before loss of free spool, and had a freespool time of 35 seconds at that 15 pound strike setting.
I purchased a couple of used TLD 15s and I'm just clarifying something. On tearing down my 15....I have 3 spacer A (#47) that is between click gear (#48) and the preload body (#45). So when I get the new Tld 20/30 preload springs, do I remove only one or two of the spacer A (#47)?? Looking at my schematic it looks like there are only 2 spacer A(#47) but hard to tell. Thanks! I love tinkering with these old reels!!
I purchased a couple of used TLD 15s and I'm just clarifying something. On tearing down my 15....I have 3 spacer A (#47) that is between click gear (#48) and the preload body (#45). So when I get the new Tld 20/30 preload springs, do I remove only one or two of the spacer A (#47)?? Looking at my schematic it looks like there are only 2 spacer A(#47) but hard to tell. Thanks! I love tinkering with these old reels!!
Also how do I get the extra washers for the Tld 20/25 and the 2spd 30??
You may have to remove only one. They are shims to be added or removed as needed. Rudy
I know the belleville stack on the TLD20/25 should be combined stack measurement equalled 4.61mm per Alan. What should the correct stack measurement be on a TLD 15? I only live bait fish with my TLD15 using only 2.5-4 pounds of drag but some of my older reels the drag is not as linear, meaning it goes from nothing to almost 3 pounds in a short amount of throw. Thanks for any help.
before you start changing the belleville stack around, figure out what you need for drag and see if the reel will deliver that drag setting. you may be pleasantly surprised!