Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: alantani on December 07, 2008, 05:26:15 PM



Title: 111 senator
Post by: alantani on December 07, 2008, 05:26:15 PM
here's a real gem.  not many of them left.  they are still used by northern california salmon fishermen to drag 2.5 pound lead balls on sinker releases.  the low gear ratio makes this reel well suited for that purpose.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_017.jpg)

this particular reel still has the original handle, a brass gear sleeve and a stack of three old drag washers.  what i'm going to do is install a new stainless steel gear sleeve from mysticparts.com, a penn jigmaster power handle and i'm going to change the drag stack from "1+3" to 1+5".  the greater number of drag washers will deliver more drag range and the stainless steel gear sleeve and larger handle will allow us to crank under this heavier load.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_018.jpg)

if you are considering a full conversion like this, bear in mind that you will have to dremmel out the side plate a little.  if you wish to simply upgrade the drag to a "stock" configuration, you will need a fiber washer under the gear (part #4-60) and three carbon fiber washers inside the gear (part #6-113).  our full upgrade requires one #6-113 drag washer under the gear, five #6-60 drag washers inside the gear, a full set of five #7C-60 metal washers, a #24-56 jigmaster power handle, a #98-60at stainless steel gear sleeve, and, most importantly, and couple of extra #14-99 dog springs.  go here for a schematic and a list of parts.  

https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/Penn111.pdf (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/Penn111.pdf)

ok, let's crack it open.  start with the left side plate screws (key #'s 39 and 39a). remove the left side plate (key #27).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_019.jpg)

note the different length of the bottom screw (key #39a).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_020.jpg)

the clickers of these older reels are riveted in and they rust.  it really makes a mess.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_021.jpg)

the rust gets everywhere.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_022.jpg)

normally what i'd do is throw everything into the ultrasonic cleaner for a couple of hours.  that won't help you, so let's just clean it up with an old toothbrush and a little grease.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_023.jpg)

a little yamaha elbow grease works works wonders.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_024.jpg)

same with the chrome-over-brass spool (key #29).  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_025.jpg)

there!  big improvement and it now has a light coat of grease that will slow down further corrosion.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_026.jpg)

take a moment to clean up the stand (key #30) and frame posts (key #37).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_027.jpg)

let's back out, grease and reinstall the inner stand screws (key #38a) and inner post screws (key #32).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_028.jpg)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_030.jpg)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_029.jpg)

reinstall the left side plate (key #27) and screws (key #'s 39 and 39a).  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_031.jpg)

now for right side.  let's remove the handle first.  start with the handle lock screw (key #23a).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_032.jpg)

remove the handle screw (key #23).  i had a custom wrench made a while back.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_033.jpg)

been a while since this reel had been serviced.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_034.jpg)

remove the handle (key #24).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_035.jpg)

remove the star drag wheel (key #10).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_036.jpg)

remove the spacing sleeve (key #9).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_037.jpg)

remove the right side plate screws (key #'s 31 and 38).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_039.jpg)

again, note that the center screw (key #31) is shorter.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_040.jpg)

if you have trouble removing the side plate, try tapping around the inside lip with a small swiss army knife.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_041.jpg)

 (http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_042.jpg)

remove, grease and reinstall the right inner frame screws (key #32) and right inner stand screws (key #38).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_043.jpg)

let's take the opportunity now to brush things up a little.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_044.jpg)

remove the lower (key #16) and upper (key #17) bridge screws.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_045.jpg)

the bridge assembly (key #3) should simply fall out.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_046.jpg)

the first thing you are looking for is the dog spring (key #14).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_047.jpg)

find the dog (key #15).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_048.jpg)

set them both aside, someplace safe.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_049.jpg)

now for the brige assembly (key #'s 98 and 3-8).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_050.jpg)

if you have trouble removing the main gear, try giving the flat sides of the gear sleeve (key #98) a couple of strokes of a flat file.  this usually works.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_051.jpg)

the drag stack was pretty much fused together.  only one metal drag washer was functioning.  yeah, it was the shiny one.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_052.jpg)

we need to punch out the brass pin holding the gear sleeve in.  a small punch works well for this.  some can just be pushed out, some need to be hammered.  all i did was lean on this one and it slid right out.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_053.jpg)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_054.jpg)

corrosion x (in a reel x bottle) works well here.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_056.jpg)

install the new stainless steel gear sleeve (part #98-60 at).  channel locks work well to press the pin in.  if the pin sticks out a little, a flat file can easily take off the edge.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_055.jpg)

here's the new line up.  i've added an extra pair of metal washers.  they alternate keyed, slotted, keyed, slotted, keyed.  in between the metal washers go a set of five #6-60 penn ht-100 drag washers.  underneath the main gear (key #5) goes a #6-113 drag washer.  this is the combination that i've found will give the best performance.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_057.jpg)

slap a thick coat of cal's drag grease on each drag washer and rebuild the stack.  don't worry about the excess.  it will just squeeze out the sides.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_058.jpg)

here's the fourth slotted metal washer.  note that it has to nest inside the gear and it barely fits.  this is fine as long as you get full drag range.  if this metal washer rides up and rotates a few degrees, it will sit on top of the gear.  the star will not travel as far when turned down and you will only get a few pounds of drag.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_059.jpg)

the last carbon fiber washer and metal keyed metal washer sit above the lip of the main gear.  no problem.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_060.jpg)

when you put some pressure on the drag stack, it squeezes right down.  we're done here.  let's set it aside.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_061.jpg)


the toothbrush (and the dental pick) are getting a real workout today.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_062.jpg)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_063.jpg)

now, we're going to have to do a little more modification then is required for the typical reel.  a note of caution here.  we will grinding away at the inside of this old, brittle, plastic side plate.  i've done this plenty of times and have had no problems.  your results may vary.  see these three steps?  they need to be ground down and rounded off a little.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_065.jpg)

the dremmel and a round bit will do the job very nicely.  compressed air makes the clean up quick.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_066.jpg)

here are the final results.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_067.jpg)

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_068.jpg)

there is now just barely enough clearance for the main gear and metal washers when it is under no pressure from the star.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_069.jpg)

let's line everything up in order of installation.  
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_070.jpg)

first, note that you have upper bridge screws (key #17) that are only partially threaded, and lower bridge screws (key #16) that are threaded the entire length.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_071.jpg)

install the bridge screws.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_072.jpg)

cover the bridge screws with your index and middle fingers.  hold the right side plate between your thumb and ring finger.  your pinky sticks out because this is a high class joint catering to high class people.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_073.jpg)

now you can flip the side plate upside down and not worry about the screws falling out.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_074.jpg)

install the clutch springs (key #18) on the upper bridge screws.  this is the reason the screws are not threaded the entire length.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_075.jpg)

install the pinion yoke (key # 12) and pinion gear (key #13) as a unit.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_076.jpg)

install the eccentric jack (key #11).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_078.jpg)

install the bridge/main gear assembly and turn it 90 degrees counterclockwise.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_079.jpg)

push down with your thumb and install the dog (key # 15).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_080.jpg)

now turn the bridge clockwise until it covers all but half of the last lower bridge screw.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_081.jpg)

ok, here's the million dollar trick to installing the dog spring.  see the gap?

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_082.jpg)

lay the dog spring inside the gap.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_083.jpg)

now push the dog spring down into the gap.  careful here.  if you miss, the dog spring could fly off into never never land.  you did order a couple of back ups, right?

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_084.jpg)

ok, it's in.  now rotate the bridge that last few degrees until you hear a "click" and the bridge is in it's proper position.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_085.jpg)

with a right hand assist, flip the side plate over and start each screw half way.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_086.jpg)

now tighten down each bridge screw.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_087.jpg)

done!  you've just rebuild the right side plate of a penn 111.  oh yeah. you can breathe now....

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_088.jpg)

install the spacing sleeve (key #9).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_090.jpg)

install the star (key #10).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_091.jpg)

put a drop of corrosion x in the left side bushing (key #40).....

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_092.jpg)

... and the right side bushing (key # 26).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_093.jpg)

install the spool (key #29).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_094.jpg)

install the right side plate assembly and screws.  remember, one is short.  

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_095.jpg)

adjust the left side bushing (key #40) until you have zero load and zero free play.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_098.jpg)

watch it spin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_096.jpg)

install the handle (key #24).  in this case, it's a #24-56 jigmaster power handle.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_099.jpg)

install the handle screw (key #23).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_100.jpg)

install the handle lock screw (key #23a).

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_101.jpg)

lube the handle.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_102.jpg)

.... and done!  for general maintenance, my recommendation is to strip off all the line after every trip.  yes, you read that correctly.  line is cheap.  get rid of the old stuff.  rinse the reel with fresh water, shake it out, dry it, respool it and reset the drag.  if the freespool slows down, back out both bushings, clean them with a Q tip, lube them with corrosion x and reinstall then.  if needed, order up new bushings.  they are also very cheap.  this particular reel benched out at 15 pounds.  more than enough for our local salmon.  it should hold up for a very long time.

(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/penn111_103.jpg)


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"



Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on December 23, 2010, 01:31:34 AM
Put away the Dremel!!! :o
I just rebuilt my 111 and upgraded it with a 1+5 drag, stainless steel gear sleeve and a Kolekar 2/0 reel grip. Instead of using 6-60 washers for the drag, I used Smoothdrag #10 Carbontex washers. The top metal washer fits flush with the top of the main gear. THANK YOU, DAWN and PETE!! ;D ;D

Here's what you have to do that's different:
Get five of the #10 Carbontex washers [20.5 x 8.1 x 0.5 mm] and drill out the centers with a 13/32 or 27/64" drill bit so they'll fit over the gear sleeve. I put two of the washers at a time between two old #7-60 metal washers and held the stack in a vise with pliers on the topside. Be careful as the 0.5mm washers are real thin and can tear if you rush things.
Now build your gear sleeve with a #6-113 washer under the main gear, main gear, drag washer stack [5 cf+5 metal washers], belleville washer and the spacer sleeve. Assemble the reel per the rest of the tutorial and you should be good to go. :)

I have 16# max drag with a full spool of 50# braid and a 30# top shot. I plan to use the heck out of this reel next season to see how the thin drag washers hold up. I'll post the results.

Rob


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: alantani on December 23, 2010, 06:48:50 AM
they are very nice reels, aren't they!


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: George4741 on March 21, 2011, 01:23:16 PM
Quote "they are very nice reels, aren't they!"

Yes they are, Alan. 
Thank you for another great tutorial.  I went with the 5-drag stack, too.  However, I replaced the washer under the main gear with a stock 4-60 fiber washer and had enough clearance so I didn't have to dremel out the right sideplate (something I was reluctant to do).  I realize I loose a few pounds of drag, compared to your rebuild, but this works for me.

George     


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on March 21, 2011, 04:06:33 PM
Gearge, just out of curiosity, how much drag are you getting out of this little reel? I  think that pushing this reel over 10 pound of drag will eventually strip the gears. I kept the 3 drags configuration in mine and replaced the washers with carbontex and also the one under the main gear, the reel works great, I wouldn't push it over 8. When I get around to it, I will also replace the gear sleeve with a stainless steel one, that's a good upgrade, thanks to Alan.  Take care, Sal


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 21, 2011, 05:55:47 PM
Sal,
When I did my 1+5 above, my objective was to get more drag without having to bear down so hard on the drag wheel. As long as you're mindful of the line and gear capacity, you should be okay with the 25-33% factor.
Rob


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: George4741 on March 21, 2011, 06:39:36 PM
I'm not sure Sal, as I don't have a scale to measure it.  I'm not going to push the limits of this fine old reel, anyway.  I will try it for light bottom fishing off of California's Channel Islands.

I'm rebuilding all of my old school Penns with new HT100 drag washers and lubing them with Cal's grease.  These tutorials are a great help.

George   


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on March 21, 2011, 07:32:44 PM
Hey Rob, I get what you're saying. I still think that adding the additional drags will increase the chance of domaging the gears, all that mindfulness goes away when the fish is on.... for me anyway. I'm not arguing with you, you're a knowlegeable person and I'm learning a lot from you, this is only my opinion. I'm keeping the same original configuration on my reel, simply becouse it's working just fine for me.Take care, Sal


Geoge, I'm glad you're bringing those old Penn reels back to life. I'm also a Penn guy and still use them today,you're right about the tutorials, these guys are great. Take care, Sal


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 21, 2011, 07:44:39 PM
Hey Rob, I get what you're saying. I still think that adding the additional drags will increase the chance of domaging the gears, all that mindfulness goes away when the fish is on.... for me anyway. . . . . . I'm keeping the same original configuration on my reel, simply becouse it's working just fine for me.Take care, Sal


Geoge, I'm glad you're bringing those old Penn reels back to life. I'm also a Penn guy and still use them today,you're wright about the tutorials, these guys are great. Take care, Sal

Hey, Sal -
I agree with you about being mindful with the fish on. ;D  This was one reel I wanted to tinker with and I hope I don't start crankin' the star down when I get a 30# lingcod on the other end. It's strictly for bottom fishing and I ended up with straight 30# mono on it. If I blow the gears out I'll get a new set and rebuild it to stock.  I love every one of my (10) Penns. And the Newell 220 and Daiwa 350H are okay, too. ;)  Keep up the good work George! 8)
Rob


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on March 21, 2011, 10:16:11 PM
Hey Rob what do you mean 10 Penn reels, is that all?  :o


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: George4741 on March 22, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
Thank you all, I'm surprised by the amount of interest my post generated.

When I started rebuilding my 111 it was more about how much I can stuff under the hood, not about significantly improving performance.  I don't want to abuse this reel. 

It's enjoyable reading other people's comments about Penns on this forum.  When I go salt water fishing the only old school Penns I see are Jigmasters, and if it doesn't have bling, no one else is interested.

George


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: slgriffiths on March 22, 2011, 10:35:07 AM
George,

Many of us have Penns - some are really addicted to them.  Have a look at Broadway's (Dom's) really beautiful collection.

I almost exclusively use Penns, most older ones - 146's, 501's 112H's 113h's, and occasionally if I'm lucky, 114H's as well.  I've even got about 5 spining reels, from 420SS's to 7500SSJ's.  They are great, especially the hi-speed Senators.  I've fallen in love with them by accident - and upgrade them with frames, stainless gearsets, drags, and vintage handles, as a hobby, as well as try to fish them to death - but they'll outlast me!

The upgrades are extensive, can be quite expensive, but somehow, if you've got those Penn sideplates at the rail, and they are performing like the new stuff - it feels good!!!

Look after your 111 - that is one I haven't got, and to be honest, it should last you a lifetime if you don't push it too far.  Enjoy it.  Ask if you have more questions - many will help, in addition to Alan.

Simon.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: slgriffiths on March 22, 2011, 10:39:39 AM
And from memory, Penn was using steel for those gears, then.  As they were for the early 112H's and 113H's.  They are a little stronger (maybe a little less smooth) then the later brass ones - is that right Alan?
Simon


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on March 22, 2011, 11:05:21 AM
Simon, I'm going to take a chance and answer this one. You are right, gears used to be stainless steel, Penn switched to full brass along the way for the main gear, keeping the pinion stainless steel. In the late 90's Penn introduced the managanese bronze for the main gear . This material is much stronger than solid brass, this would reduce gear teeth stripping. Nice to see guys still using Penn. Take care, Sal :)


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: alantani on March 22, 2011, 11:19:11 PM
yeah, steel main gears rattled and rusted.  stainless would still rattle, it would never rust, but was probably too expensive for penn at the time.  the manganese/bronze alloy main gears are a nice compromise.  not as strong, but very quiet. 


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: lightj12 on April 23, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
Just finished rebuilding my 2/0. Put in (5) smoothdrag washers w/a stainless steel gear sleeve per your tutorial. When spooling up w/ 20# mono it appears that the spool flanges (original brass spool) are deflecting & the spool is binding in the reel frame. I can pretty much say that this is definitely the problem. The alignment of the reel frame is OK. Looks like I'm going to have to pick up an aluminum spool or use less tension when spooling; not using a whole lot. Any experience or suggestions here?
Thanks,
Jeremy


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: akfish on April 23, 2011, 08:53:38 PM
Older Penn spools did not handle mono well. In fact, Penn used to include a note in their reels saying that, if you used mono, you should remove the line **after each day's fishing** to take pressure off the spool. Really. I see lots and lots of older Penns with bad spools and very tightly compacted mono. You can reduce the problem by using some Dacron backing but it doesn't always work. Get an aluminum spool...


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on April 23, 2011, 10:56:37 PM
Just finished rebuilding my 2/0. Put in (5) smoothdrag washers w/a stainless steel gear sleeve per your tutorial. When spooling up w/ 20# mono it appears that the spool flanges (original brass spool) are deflecting & the spool is binding in the reel frame. I can pretty much say that this is definitely the problem. The alignment of the reel frame is OK. Looks like I'm going to have to pick up an aluminum spool or use less tension when spooling; not using a whole lot. Any experience or suggestions here?
Thanks,
Jeremy

Sounds like your reel has the 3 piece spool, as Akfish mentioned, these spools used to get warped under heavy load, I've seen this on the 6/0's and up, never seen it on smaller reels. You pretty much have to get yourself a new spool you'll never make that one line up again. Get yourself an aluminum spool or one piece brass spool and be careful on how you fish the reel, as I mentioned on my previous posts, I don't think that increasing the  drag stock from 3 to 5 on these reels is a good idea, more drags = more pressure and I'm sure you're not going to back down when a nice size fish is on. I would not fish the reel over 12 pounds, your new sleeve can take it but your gears might not. Just my opinion.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: lightj12 on April 24, 2011, 03:39:02 AM
Thanks for the info; just ordered an aluminum spool. Think I spooled it too tight; looked like a one-piece spool to me. I'll try re-spooling w/less tension as a temporary fix; if the flanges aren't too distorted...


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Irish Jigger on April 24, 2011, 08:03:53 AM
I occasionally see  Penn 2/0's on ebay over here. If anyone wants one PM me and I will keep a lookout for one.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on April 24, 2011, 01:04:27 PM
Thanks for the info; just ordered an aluminum spool. Think I spooled it too tight; looked like a one-piece spool to me. I'll try re-spooling w/less tension as a temporary fix; if the flanges aren't too distorted...

I should have asked earlier, does the reel have red plates or black? also, try backing all frame scews about a quarter of a turn, hold the reel with both hands and lightly move the plates in opposite direction a couple of times and then lightly tighten the frame screws... see if that does anything.

Scratch the top part, I was thinking 112. Try loosening the screws though sometimes it works.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on April 24, 2011, 03:59:59 PM
I've seen very few 3-piece spools on small, older Penns. Jeremy, if one side of the spool has a flared arbor and the other side of the spool goes into it, it's a 3-piece. An example of a flared end in this case would be like a section of PVC pipe with a bell molded onto one end so another pipe could be slid into it without a connection fitting. But you may already know this. :-\

I have the 5-stack drag in my 111 but I put 30# mono for three reasons: I had plenty of it to be used, I didn't need a lot of line on it, and I'll be using the reel for rockfish so wanted just a little more abrasion resistance. It's partially an experiment on my part, but I know it will never be more than a 25-30# reel. Mine came with a one-piece brass/chrome spool and the gears remain the weak link.

Sal and akfish are right.  You'll like the aluminum spool better. ;)
Rob


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: lightj12 on April 24, 2011, 04:57:00 PM
Tried to re-spool it w/ less tension & no luck; flanges deformed again. This reel will never see the possible drag w/ the new drag configuration, but w/ a fine thread gear sleeve (Penn 505?) the drag adjustment is very nice. Using 30# mono is actually a good idea on these older reels to prevent the line from getting bound up between the spool & frame; but the aluminum spool, with shoulders @ flanges, should help prevent this. I plan on mainly using this reel for salmon trolling but it looks like it won't be going with me up to Shelter Cove next weekend.    :'(


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: alantani on April 24, 2011, 09:45:47 PM
jeremy, i don't know where you live, but if you're close you might want to swing by the house this week.  i'll bet i could find you a new spool in the junk box somewhere.  um, check that.  bryan might be able to find you a spool.  since he moved everything around, i can't find anything. 


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: lightj12 on April 25, 2011, 12:45:22 AM
Thanks for the offer Alan, I've got one ordered form MyscitParts that might get here by Friday. I'll use my 3/0 if I have to. Yes, this is addictive.


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Bryan Young on May 10, 2011, 10:53:05 PM
Alan,  All of the spools are opposite your fishing rods. Bryan


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: fodf on March 06, 2012, 09:02:32 PM
Guys, I cracked open my newly acquired 2/0 the other day to follow the tutorial in cleaning it up and upgrading the components. I had the schematic in hand, and the tutorial on the screen. Everything went well until I got to the guts and found this:
1. a 5+5 all original (I think) drag configuration (orange and black alternating), plus drag washer (orange) under the sleeve. All the metals were brass (3 keyed and 2 eared);
2. a 15-60 dog;
3. a "leaf" dog spring;
4. and steel main and pinion gears (no part markings) .
Is this some sort of hybrid 2/0?
Also the spool is different than I've seen before. It appears to have what looks like a short sleeve in the center of the spool where the spool "post" resides. The thing doesn't look like it had ever seen any line; pristine looking.
Oh, and a couple of very soft felt washer; a small one under the gear sleeve, and a larger one above the belleville.
Any thoughts?
Eric


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Keta on March 06, 2012, 10:33:00 PM
Also the spool is different than I've seen before. It appears to have what looks like a short sleeve in the center of the spool where the spool "post" resides.

Is there nuts on the ends of the spool?  If so you have a multi piece spool.  If I go back to town I'll take and post a photo of one.  The dog should be 15-99.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: fodf on March 06, 2012, 11:16:14 PM
Keta, yep the spool has a nut on each end. This reel doesn't appear to have a roller bearing, or at least I haven't found one. The dog is definitely a 15-60. Thanx for the reply. Eric


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Keta on March 07, 2012, 12:25:52 AM
Here's what it looks partly broke down. 

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/IGFA19Keta/Spool.jpg)


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: maine guide on March 29, 2012, 01:01:04 PM
Hi All,

First post here.  What a great site.

I've been following Alan's work for years and have stripped/cleaned/upgraded all of my Squidders and Jigmasters to pass away the long winters.

Then I decided to take on my Dad's 2/0.  I have seen this reel laying around since the early 70's and I seem to recall him saying he had it when he was a kid - let's say he acquired in the late 50's early 60's.  Anyway, I know he never took the thing apart, and it was in pristine condition.  When I opened it up, it already had the 1 + 5 configuration.  Was that common?  Did they switch to the 1 + 3 at some point?

Thanks again all for the great site!


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 29, 2012, 06:52:43 PM
I don't believe Penn ever put a 1+5 in the 111, but what do I know? ;D 
Good luck with the reel: it's not fast, but I like mine enough to make a few upgrades.

And welcome to the site!

Rob


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on March 29, 2012, 08:39:10 PM
Welcome maine guide.
Are you sure that you counted 1+5? As Rob mentioned, I've never seen one, can you show us a picture?


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: fodf on March 29, 2012, 08:48:05 PM
MG, I have the same reel (see reply #26). They do indeed exist. Mine is the easy drag access model with the pressure drag washer. Eric


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 29, 2012, 09:32:22 PM
Welcome maine guide.
Are you sure that you counted 1+5? As Rob mentioned, I've never seen one, can you show us a picture?

Interesting..... Penn throws us for a loop again. And I thought Sal had seen it all. :D  I wonder if Senator collector (Broadway) Dom has one he's been keeping us in the dark about. ;D


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: maine guide on March 30, 2012, 12:45:32 PM
Thanks guys.  I put her all back together a few weeks back.  Next time I open it up, I will shoot some pic's.  Have to put her into action first.  Tough to take reels apart with a 2 1/2 year old running around!!

After taking that apart, I went on to take apart a 49 Super Mariner that I picked up at a flea market in mint condition.  Can't wait to give that one a try!!

Thanks again for all the advice and insight.

Rick


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on March 30, 2012, 05:14:43 PM
The Penn 111 is not rated for 1+5. If you find one, I'm sure it didn't come from penn. The 1+5 will shred the gears and the only thing that the ss sleeve will do is  help shred them faster. The ss sleeve and a nice handle is still a good upgrade, but I would keep the drag stack on that particular reel to 1+3...as Rob did. The 111 should be fished at around 10lb, you need more impact, use a bigger hammer. Sal


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 31, 2012, 04:37:58 PM
I put the 1+5 in my 111 more as a lark and experiment. I don't expect to go after anything bigger than a 15 pound lingcod with it. No mods were made that I can't undo and I can make it original again. On my original post (right after Alan's tutorial), I note 16 pounds max drag and that I would use the heck out of it. Well, the 2.5:1 gears mean everyone's waiting for me to bring my line up when the captain says it's time to move, so I don't use it much. It looks like new so it's more of a dust collector / backup reel, now spooled with straight 30 pound mono.
Sal, you're right about the gear train - drag on this reel probably should be 10 pounds max if you want the gears to last.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Alto Mare on March 31, 2012, 04:42:52 PM
Sorry Rob, I thought you had the 1+3. A 30lb line is a good call though. Sal


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Norcal Pescador on March 31, 2012, 06:01:24 PM
Sorry Rob, I thought you had the 1+3. A 30lb line is a good call though. Sal
Hey bud, no problem. I'll probably change it back to 1+3 when (if?) I ever wear out the 1+5 stack. At the current rate, about 2026. :D ;)
Rob


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: alantani on April 01, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
yeah, it should have been a "1+5" drag system.  i'll bet someone got into it before.  hey, maybe it was even your dad!  for this reel, a stainless steel gear sleeve is not that big of a deal, but for the 49 mariner, it would be.  i have them and so does mysticparts.com.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Rancanfish on August 25, 2017, 11:14:06 PM
The zombie thread is back....

Sorry guys, I keep seeing mention of the aluminum spool.  Which spool fits the 2/0 111?

And isn't this basically a jigmaster size with dinky drags and an extra sideplate ring?


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: mo65 on August 25, 2017, 11:25:06 PM
The zombie thread is back....

Sorry guys, I keep seeing mention of the aluminum spool.  Which spool fits the 2/0 111?

And isn't this basically a jigmaster size with dinky drags and an extra sideplate ring?

   The 29L-85 is the spool you want. It can be found in LB60s, Delmar 285s,
 and 185 Seaboys. 8)


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: mhc on August 25, 2017, 11:33:20 PM
Hi Randy, Mo is right (he replied while I was typing) The 29L-85 fits the 2/0 111 as well as the 85, longbeach 60 and others. The spools are about 3/16" taller and about 1/8" wider than a jigmaster 501 spool. The 2/0 has a 5-66 main gear (2.25:1) which is a smaller dia than the jigmaster gear but a bit deeper and will take a 5 stack drag. The 29L-85 is a bit hard to find at the moment but they do turn up, usually in a reel.
Mike


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Rancanfish on August 26, 2017, 03:57:32 AM
Thanks guys.  I was curious is all.  I don't have a 2/0.

I think I have a 85 spool in my stash of spools.  I wonder why I had it.  I have lots of reel parts that I picked up, that I can't remember what my plan was.





Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Maxed Out on August 26, 2017, 04:06:05 AM

 The 2/0 and 3/0 both had outer access drags from 1946- approx 1950


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: mo65 on August 26, 2017, 02:51:17 PM
   Hey folks...did anyone else see the 2/0 that sold last night on fleabay? Check out the Tib frame...is this a limited production thing? Very cool item! 8)


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: swill88 on August 26, 2017, 04:01:21 PM
I almost went for that. Woke up this morning to buy and it was gone. :-X

"Hi's Special" most likely refers to Hi's Tacklebox. It's a San Francisco landmark as far as I'm concerned (now in South SF).

Still a great local shop. http://www.tackletour.com/reviewhistacklebox.html

steve


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: mo65 on August 26, 2017, 04:18:49 PM
   I was thinkin' hard about it too Steve...and I figured "Hi's" was a local shop or sporting goods place. Thanks for the info! 8)


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Maxed Out on August 26, 2017, 10:30:32 PM

 Very rarely seen Mo......Tiburon supposedly only made 20 or so and they were all special ordered for Hi's tackle shop

  It's more for looks IMO, cause a stock 2/0 don't have enough drag#'s to twist a stock seat with 3 screws on each side and 6 frame posts. The stock 2/0 was way overbuilt to begin with

  Ted


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: foakes on August 26, 2017, 10:55:41 PM
Ted is right, IMO --

With the (6) posts, double sideplate rings, and a stand with a clamp -- these are just fine without a frame.

Tough reels that will do the job they are designed for -- within the drag numbers, or even a little higher.

Got a couple -- one came from Jonathan, spooled with old dacron when new, and never on a rod.

The other came from Ted -- the swirled aqua blue crank knob is very unique.

Best,

Fred


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Maxed Out on August 26, 2017, 11:08:45 PM

 Nice reels Fred...... When you say "unique blue swirl knob", that equals rare as hen's teeth coming from a man who has seen a bazillion Penn handles. Glad you ended up with it !!

 Ted


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: mo65 on August 27, 2017, 05:27:44 PM
Very rarely seen Mo......Tiburon supposedly only made 20 or so and they were all special ordered for Hi's tackle shop

  It's more for looks IMO, cause a stock 2/0 don't have enough drag#'s to twist a stock seat with 3 screws on each side and 6 frame posts. The stock 2/0 was way overbuilt to begin with

   Same thing I always figured too Ted...you could slap a 7-stack in the 2/0 and it could handle it. I was wondering what all that frame was drilled for...will  LB60 plates work? Imagining a hot rod high powered Sea Gate or something! :o

The other came from Ted -- the swirled aqua blue crank knob is very unique.

   Ahh...the holy grail of stock Penn knobs...I too am glad to see Fred with that jewel! 8)


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Caranx on April 19, 2020, 12:25:26 PM
Letís get a closer look at that blue swirled knob.
I curious to see.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: mo65 on April 19, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
Letís get a closer look at that blue swirled knob.
I curious to see.

   Here is a little closer look: https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=18784.msg206663#msg206663


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Swami805 on December 22, 2020, 04:00:15 PM
Found one on fleabay a few weeks ago and bought it on a lark. Accurate made some frames too. Anyway when I saw it some reason my brain started turning and a 111 is the same size pretty much as an international 6 and thought well maybe ????   Sadly the screw holes donít line up as I thought. since the 111 has so many frame screws I thought I might get lucky but it wasnít to be.  Tapping screws holes in the frame isnít in my wheelhouse
Likely makes no sense to pursue this but thatís never stopped me before, haha. If anyone with the skills to tap some holes for me is interested give me a holler. Thanks


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Bill B (Tarfu) on December 22, 2020, 07:08:47 PM
Sheridan, that would be an interesting reel.  I would break out in sweats and shakes if I even though about drilling and tapping that frame.... :o   Bill


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: Rancanfish on December 25, 2020, 05:01:47 AM
I want to know how I missed that.   I hit Randy up a year ago for a frame.  Unobtainium.


Title: Re: 111 senator
Post by: SteveL on December 25, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
I want to know how I missed that.   I hit Randy up a year ago for a frame.  Unobtainium.

Yeah,  I watched for one of those frames for a couple of years.  You snooze, you lose.