this arrived in the mail last week. it's new from omoto http://www.fishing-tackle.com.tw/trolling.htm and is being sold by alan chui, owner of prochallenger http://www.prochallenger.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi in florida. alan has sent out a couple of reels for me to look at. as i get caught up, i hope to be able to go through the entire line.
here's our new reel.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54801.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54821.JPG)
i've got a paper copy of the schematics, but was not able to locate one online. alan chui says that the websites have not been updated yet.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54831.JPG)
let's take a look around.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54861.JPG)
it looks like everything is engraved rather than etched.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54881.JPG)
they apparently took the lessons from avet and bolted down the reel seat with 4 screws. avet started with two screws and had trouble, then switched to 6. the four screws holding the omoto reel foot in place should be adequate.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54871.JPG)
a 5.2 to 1 gear ratio and 220 yards of 20# mono make this reel nearly the exact match to the avet sx.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54841.JPG)
using a no 15 torx bit, back out all three right side plate screws (key #17).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54921.JPG)
the right side plate and spool cleanly separate from the frame assembly.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54931.JPG)
the screw holes appear to have a small amount of blue loctite. we'll have to grease these.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54951.JPG)
the clicker assembly (key #'s 1-6) already have a light coat of grease.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54941.JPG)
using a no. 2 philips, back out the cover screws (key #8), add a small bead of grease and reinstall the screws.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54961.JPG)
using a no. 10 torx, back out each reel foot screw (key #27), add a bead of grease to each screw, and re-install the screw. we've had this discussion before and i realize that some would prefer not to grease the reel seat screws. if you just use loctite, you clearly run the risk of extensive corrosion. if you grease them, the screws could loosen. so greasing these screws means that you do have to check them periodically.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54981.JPG)
ok, the frame is done.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN54991.JPG)
let's have a look around the right side plate and spool assembly.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55001.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55011.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55021.JPG)
now, with this next step, the reel is going to go "boing!!!!!!" remove the preset knob (key #44).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55031.JPG)
line up all of the parts from left to right, including the the preset knob (key #44), the spring (key #43), the o-ring (key # 42) and brake cam (key #41) assembly, the lifter (key #40), the brake lever (key #39), a metal washer (key #38) and two teflon washers (key #37).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55041.JPG)
not much left on the right side plate now.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55051.JPG)
we now have a spool assembly and a right side plate assembly.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55061.JPG)
here is the spool shaft (key #49) out of the spool with everything attached in the original configuration.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55071.JPG)
here's everything laid out. on top is the spool shaft (key #49) with the shaft shoulder (key #47) and shaft pin (key #48) still attached. below from left to right are the disc spring washers (key #50), the bushing (key #51), the 5x13x4 mm left spool bearing (key #52), the bearing tube (key #53), the 5x11x4 right spool bearing (key #56), the return spring (key #57), and the 5x11x4 brake disc bearing (key #58). the brake disc assembly (key #59, 60 and 61) is not shown.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55081.JPG)
using a 1/0 ringed owner flyliner, i removed the retaining rings and shields from the left spool bearing (key #52). this bearing was cleaned with carb cleaner, lubed with corrosion x and will be re-installed open. the right spool bearing will also be cleaned and lubed, but was actually open to begin with.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55131.JPG)
the bearing for the brake disc has a seal. a small scalpel does of great job of prying it out.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55141.JPG)
this one is dry as a bone. we'll pack it with grease and press the shields back in.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55151.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55161.JPG)
we're done with the spool and brake disc bearings.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55171.JPG)
now for the drag washer (key #55). it's carbon fiber and it's greased, but it looks like they missed a few spots.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55091.JPG)
i'm going to apply a thick coat of cal's grease, press it in and wipe off the excess. note that there is no retaining ring, and probably none needed.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55101.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55111.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55121.JPG)
arrange the disc spring washers (key #50) in a "()()" orientation, reassemble the spool and set it aside.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55181.JPG)
find the pinion gear (key #62) and add it to the spool assembly.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55191.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55211.JPG)
almost done. there are three more bearings that need to be packed with grease. we'll have to pull the main gear to get them. remove the friction ring (key #9).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN5522.JPG)
remove the handle nut screw (key #22).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55231.JPG)
to remove the handle nut (key #21), you need a special wrench. the penn wrench on the right is too small. the shimano wrench on the left is slightly bigger, but still too small.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55241.JPG)
guess we'll have to use the wrench provided.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55251.JPG)
off comes the handle nut (key #21).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55271.JPG)
remove the handle assembly (key #20).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55281.JPG)
remove the handle washer (key #19).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55291.JPG)
remove the drive gear/shaft assembly (key #'s 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14), the pair of 10x20x6 drive shaft bearings (key #15), and the drive shaft tube (key #18).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55311.JPG)
this is how the assembly is oriented.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55321.JPG)
pull the shields of these bearings and you'll find that they are lubed with oil only. let's pack them with grease and re-install the shields.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55381.JPG)
here is the 6x12x4 right main side plate bearing (key #31). at first glance, it looked quite a bit smaller that the corresponding bearing found in the avet sx. i will have to double check this. it may cause problems down the line.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55331.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55341.JPG)
pull the bearing out and remove the shields. the bearing has only a small amount of grease in it. any air pockets may allow salt water intrusion.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55351.JPG)
let's pack the bearing with grease and re-install the shields.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55361.JPG)
re-install the right main side plate bearing (key #31).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55371.JPG)
re-install the outer drive shaft bearing (key #15).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55391.JPG)
re-install the drive/gear shaft assembly, bearing and tube as a unit.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55401.JPG)
add a little grease to the outside of the drive shaft bearing (key #15) and install the washer (key #19).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55411.JPG)
install the handle assembly (key #20).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55421.JPG)
install the handle nut (key #21) and screw (key #22).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55431.JPG)
install the friction ring (key #9).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55441.JPG)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55451.JPG)
install the spool assembly (key #54) back into the right side plate assembly (key #16). you have to line up the cross pin so that it is close to it's final position when it is installed into the frame.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55461.JPG)
put a light coat of grease on all the brake lever parts.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55471.JPG)
install just one of the teflon washers (key #37), not the original two.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55491.JPG)
install the metal brake washer (key #38).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN5550.JPG)
install the brake lever (key #39) and position the lever so that it is in the "free" position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN5551.JPG)
here is the stainless steel lifter (key #40). note that the "bottom" has sharp corners, ......
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55521.JPG)
.... and the top is ramped.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN5553.JPG)
install the lifter with the ramped side up.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN5554.JPG)
install the brake cam (key #41) so that it nests into the lifter (key #40).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55551.JPG)
install the spring (key #43).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55562.JPG)
install the pre-set knob (key #44).
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55572.JPG)
with the brake lever (key #39) in the "free" position, the shaft pin (key #48) should line up with the slot cut into the left side plate. if it doesn't line up, you'll have to start all over with the spool shaft rotated 90 degrees.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55581.JPG)
there! perfect fit! and we did it on our first try!!!!!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55591.JPG)
because of problems with the avet reels, we will grease the right side plate screws (key #17) and not shoot grease directly into the screw holes.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN5560.JPG)
install the right side plate screws (key #17) and check for dimpling on the inside of the frame. luckily, there is none.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN5561.JPG)
and done! now, to run the reel through it's paces, i loaded it up with 200 yards of 20# berkeley big game. this particular reel gave me only 15 seconds of freespool. i think that perhaps the bearing tube (key #53) might be cut a little to short. it also gets a ridiculous amount of drag before losing freespool. heavy duty belleville spring washers (key #50) are the reason for that. an increased drag range is easy to accomplish in ANY lever drag reel just by stiffening up the bellevilles. the problem is that there was increasing amount of resistance when you tried to crank the handle as soon as you passed 6#'s of drag. this is the same problem seen in the avet sx, only the avet sx handle starts to bind at a 9# drag setting. i THINK that the omoto vs 10 binds at a lower drag pressure because the right main side plate bearing is smaller. like i said, i'll have to double check this.
overall, this reel should fish perfectly within specs for 20# mono. remember that a 6# drag setting is 30% for 20# mono. i'm going to shim the bearing sleeve to see if i can get more freespool, and i'm going to talk to my machine shop buddies to see if we can get a bigger bearing into this reel. as is, it will not fish 30# mono like the avet sx will, but as a 20# reel, it will go toe-to-toe with the avet. in terms of overall reliability, both reels have bearings issues that have to be addressed. at least the omoto has a greased drag washer. and finally, you should consider the $179 price for the omoto vs 10 versus the $235 charkbait price for the avet sx.
here you are, gentlemen! meet the chinese sx!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSCN55621.JPG)
written 9/17/08
Hello Alan, is this reel the same thing as the Atlas kona 200, if so are there any upgrades for it. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Look forward to hearing back from you.
Courtenay
like many things, there is a limit to what these reels can do. for the best freespool, open the bearings, clean them out, dip them in TSI 301 and re-inatall them open. non-spool bearings can be packed with grease. apply a light coat of grease to all the non-exposed metal surfaces, and apply an even coat of cal's teflon grease to the drag washer and then remove all the excess. an oversized handle grip is always a plus. that's about it!
Alan, what is the TSI301, and when u say leave bearing open, you mean leave the cover off them. So there are no AR upgrades and regular bearing upgrades.
http://www.detectorbuy.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16139&category_id=256 it's pretty good stuff for bearings if you want the spool to really spin. other than that, it's a pretty simple reel.
Hello Alan, there is a bearing in the middle of 2 other bearings on the right side plate for handle. I am guessing it is a anti reverse bearing. Is it alright to grease or just oil with corrosion x. Not sure how to get it out so I just sprayed with brake cleaner.Thanks
brake cleaner is good, then lube it with corrosion x.
Hello Alan, would it be beneficial to upgrade bearings to get better free spool. If so were is a source to get bearings and what type should I get. Thanks
better bearings, maybe. they are available from smoothdrag.com, bocabearings.com, vbx.com and the manufacturer. always try cleaning out the ones you have first, then decide if you really need new ones.
Quote from: tailfisher on December 12, 2012, 02:24:23 PM
Hello Alan, would it be beneficial to upgrade bearings to get better free spool. If so were is a source to get bearings and what type should I get. Thanks
I know OMOTO's product pretty well. You don't have to replace those bearings if it is not broken. OMOTO uses a ABEC5 bearing. If you do what Alan T has told you by cleaning those bearing, you will be good for awhile.
Hello Alan, I took reel apart and serviced it and while out jigging amberjack I had to go to Max drag and it went into free spool. I changed the washers around like u recommended on spool shaft . Would that be my problem. Took reel apart and everything seems fine. On the water I had to take drag knob apart and reset to get lever back down. It almost felt like reels drag was working in reverse. Any help will be appreciated.
when you install the cam, everything has to nest in properly and the lever has to be in the free position. can you keep us posted?
Hi Alan,
I purchased one of these reels on my last trip to Thailand - approx 130$. They have made a few changes. The most important being a larger NMB bearing "6x17x6 mm" in the RH sideplate.
5 bellevilles instead of 4. An AR bearing (instead of sleave) with a single dog. I think I will fit an additional dog as there appears to be space for it (I don't like AR bearings). Free spool is excellent. All bearings were well packed with grease but the drag washer was dry ??? The reel was fitted with a new style handle (identical to the new Snowbee Deep Blue2). It appears identical to the snowbee at well under half the price ;D
I have the original vs10 with the smaller pinion bearing. After a few years of really solid service it finally crushed the bearing. I ordered the orange seal ceramic from Boca and I am going to install it today. Has anyone else done this and were a you able to increase the drag a strike vs the original bearing?
it's unlikely that you will get an increase in drag range, but at least it will be working again.
Oh well, it's back together and running smooth again. I probably fished it with a little more drag than it was really rated for, if I can get another few years out of the new bearing, I'll be happy. Thanks Alan, for this site.
On a side note about the Omoto company in general. Before I came on here to look for the bearing dimensions, I emailed the company to ask what size bearing I needed. A rep responded and sent me 3 for free (after I ordered from boca but still). He explained that I had an older version and the newer one had a larger bearing that improved the reel. He then offered me a choice of reels at a pretty large discount with free shipping. I ended up getting their Predios 2sp reel for the price I thought I'd give it a shot.
I have had dealings with the Omoto company. They have been very helpful in sending me some parts for free ;D
Just to add to this thread-
I recently bought a VS10, I guess just to see if they were any good.
Differences to the one rebuilt here:
-It has the larger right-side pinion bearing that takes up basically the entire space in that area of the reel. It is also thicker and protrudes slightly from the bearing cup.
-It has an ARB on the driveshaft
-The Bellevilles were arranged )()( - I tried )))) which definitely increased the drag but the ramp-rate was basically unusable. It would potentially work if I added a shim/washer to take up the space created by stacking the washers this way.
-Freespool was about 20 seconds, untouched, unless I wind in so much preload on the drag that I can't even get the lever up to Strike
-Even with the drag set to nowhere near the point it loses freespool it has an obscene amount of drag at Full. I haven't scaled it yet because I'm worried my braid or rod will suffer before I get near the limit. It is a lot more than my SL30SH with Carbontex.
-The drag ramps very, very quickly between Strike and Full.
-I haven't noticed any handle binding except at impractically high drag. Perhaps the larger pinion bearing has helped in this area.
Edit: I got right on 10# of drag at Full with perfect freespool and minimal binding. Which sounds good as I intend to fish this reel with 30lb braid.
I got to around 15# at Full with no change to freespool noted but the handle was starting to feel a little bit papery.
Potentially once I pull the reel down again and grease the bearings this will go up but I was interested to see what it would do in an out-of-the-box configuration.
I'm somewhat tempted to buy another one. At the price I can source them they seem like exceptionally good value.
What price are you getting them for?
At present, right around 99USD.
I feel temptation coming on :D
Quote from: boon on May 05, 2015, 09:37:26 AM
At present, right around 99USD.
o.0 wait what?
Hmm, my little VS-10 just suffered random sudden failure of the pinion bearing.
The reel is well greased, only run at light drag, went to fish it the other day and it had gone all pepper-grinder on me.
Pulled it down and the pinion bearing was clearly rusted, weird, I used it a week ago and it was fine.
So I've ordered an angular contact bearing for this, time to see what kinda of drag it can produce...
I've tried angular contact bearings on an Andros reel. It does reduce perceived binding at higher drags. BUT if you reduce your drag by 10 or 20% it has the same effect at ZERO cost. The quoted drags are probably exaggerated anyway. You can buy a fishing reel for what angular contact bearings will cost!
Also, if the bearing was rusted that is a sign of neglect. All bearings will fail if neglected. Oil the spool bearings - grease the rest - then your good to go :)
The A/C bearing was $12 so I'm not fretting about that :) It's more for the experiment.
The rust was a mystery to me. No sign of water intrusion, the reel was greased, I just hadn't removed the shields from that bearing and packed it but when I stripped it to inspect it definitely had some grease in it. It also failed very suddenly. Maybe it just got a real good dousing on the trip home but I gave it a good wash down with fresh water (as usual). Odd. No major, gives me a chance to tinker with it :)
Humm.... This one is sold in Sweden under the name BFT Black Thunder V10, BFT stands for Big Fish Tackle, and i´ve used both the 10 and the 12 size, i think they are built like tanks. Not the smoothest reel on the planet, but they get the job done !
So I've had my VS10 for almost 2 years now and caught a bunch of fish on it. I have some observations now :)
-The drag is very good. I have periodically serviced the reel and applied a thin coat of grease and it is still very smooth and has lots of stopping power
-The gearing still feels totally fine
-The bearings are rubbish, I go through pinion bearings every few months. Not through using lots of drag; I never even get up to levels where the handle starts to feel remotely rough, the reel just runs fine for a while and then one day I go to use it and the pinion bearing has gone all nasty. Even well-greased ones... maybe the reel does side-load the bearing to an extent that it degrades quite quickly, but this is not felt?
-Last but not least, and I'm not 100% sure whether this is the anodizing or the metal underneath, but anywhere I've damaged the finish has corroded quite a lot, quite bad pitting and bubbling even around very minor scratches - as compared to my Shimano Calcutta 400, which has heaps of little dings but still looks good.