my complaint about the shimano trinidad and torium reels has always been the drag system and the anti-reverse system. well, the carbontex drag washers from smoothdrag.com and cal's grease totally fixed the drag problem. the anti-reverse roller bearing and ambassaduer-style pawl (dog), however, still posed a risk of failure and personal injury. if i was going to fix that, i would use a stack of two anti-reverse roller bearings in line and add a spring for the pawl. well, i actually found that in a shimano reel. this is a little embarassing, but i never had a clue. the guys on bloody decks had mention this before, but i guess i must be working on the poor side of town. the incredibly expensive shimano trinidad 20 DC had never crossed my bench until recently. look what i found!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_40_37_1.jpeg)
that's right, the shimano trinidad 20 DC has greased carbon fiber drag washers. but there's more. it also has a spring loaded pawl.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_40_36_0.jpeg)
and finally, it has a double height anti-reverse roller bearing and inner tube!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_40_38_2.jpeg)
well, with this inspiration (and a dog send to me by a guy on bloodydecks!), i finally decided to try in on a torium. here is the trinidad dc pawl spring.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_6_14_20_0.jpeg)
here is the ambassaduer-style pawl that comes stock with the torium (and the standard trinidads).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_6_14_22_1.jpeg)
you can see already how the pawl is damaged. the anti-reverse roller bearing in this reel is totally shot, so the pawl is doing all of the work.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_6_14_25_2.jpeg)
the ambassaduer-style spring actually peels off fairly easily. then you can use a standard mill bastard file to clean up all of the burrs.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_6_14_30_3.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_6_14_33_4.jpeg)
lay the spring flat.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_11_34_2.jpeg)
now here's the tricky part. there is a little bit of a gap underneath the pawl that allows your new dog spring to get stuck. to avoid this, i added a shimano washer that i pulled out of my junk box and used this washer to shim the pawl. now the spring will not get stuck.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_11_36_3.jpeg)
ok, now this washer is critical. without it, the pawl spring gets caught underneath the pawl and the pawl gets jammed in the "up and away" position. that means it won't work at all. i THINK that this washer is from the shimano tld 15. it should be spacer A, part #TLD 0047. i have to check the next TLD that comes in to make sure. i did not think to use the trinidad dc pawl that i already had. i will have to try that on the next reel.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_11_47_4.jpeg)
install the pawl.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_19_01_0.jpeg)
install the anti-reverse pawl keeper.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_19_03_1.jpeg)
install the anti-reverse ratchet and your new spring loaded dog system is complete!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/1/1_22_08_09_7_19_06_2.jpeg)
so there you have it, your clicking torium. the trinidad DC pawl and pawl spring is a drop in fix for the regular Trinidads and Toriums. part #s 1304 spring, and 1303 pawl. no washer is required.
Quote
Hi Alan, thank you for all your usefull information, the torium has been known to have some anti reverse problems, and you have said yourself that the dog style is the weak point of the reel... i saw the post of the modification to the reverse pawl, its now spring loaded, will this sort out the anti reverse issue? is it now more reliable? another question is the pawl not going to wear now that it is slapping or bouncing on the reverse teeth? or are the teeth going to wear? are they both strong enough to handle this upgrade? thanks for all your helpfull tips,
with all the banging around, there is a possibility that the wear on the dog may actually be less. with the ambassaduer style springs. the ratchet gear has to "back up" before it comes in contact with dog. with the spring, the "back up" distance may be a little less. it might result in less damage to the dog. who knows. either way, it's gotta be better than what we've got now!!!!!!!!!!!
the trinidad DC pawl and pawl spring is a drop in fix for the regular Trinidads and Toriums. part #s 1304 spring, and 1303 pawl.
http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/fishing-reels/238275-trinidad-problem.html
Quote from: FlyinFishOTI;1828128Not a big deal...
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v291/229/32/3405664/n3405664_38279782_4013.jpg)
The pawl basically gets mashed down slightly by the one way gear (that sits under the main shaft) and basically doesn't catch anymore.
For 180 bucks (Torium), use it til you lose it and then just drop it off at Shimano in Irvine on the drive from SD to LA and they'll ship it back to you pretty quick all fixed up.
Or try a Saltist, but I think my TOs/TNs crank better and have better drag...
Quote from: CapeFish on July 30, 2010, 05:05:21 AM
Hi Alan,
Hope you are well. Just a quick update on clicking Toriums. I placed the the drag clickspring behind the anti-reverse pawl on my toriums in a similar fashion to your plan of fitting the Trini DC pawl. Well after a couple of months it seems like the anti-reverse gear is eating away at the pawl. It is not the usual damage that occurs when the anti-reverse bearing fails, you can see the gear slowly rubbing a groove in the pawl. Obviously the standard Torium/Trini pawl is not hard enough to handle the constant friction of the anti-reverse gear. You sometimes wonder what they were thinking when designing this system. On the older reels it was such a simple, robust system that hardly ever gave trouble. Just the whole design on it is so bad, the pawl and gear design are just bad, it never engages snugly, spring or no spring.
Hopefully they have sorted this on the new Trini A. I see the drags are now "Dartanium II" aka woven carbonfibre. Not that I will purchase one in the near future, they are a bit pricey.
Regards,
Leon
Alan - do you know how much drag a Torium 20 will put out w/ this upgrade? I bought a used T-20, which had recently been sent to you for servicing. It has your upgraded handle, but I have not yet opened it up to see if he had you do the drag/AR updgrade as well. Thanks.
a set of carbontex drag washers can be cranked down enough to give an easy 20 pounds of drag. if you keep on cranking, you can strip the threads of the star and drive shaft, and even damage the anti-reverse roller bearing. as far as the roller bearing itself goes, i would have stayed with the stock AR bearing. a taller one is not really an option. and it the reel "clicks," then it has a spring loaded dog. i hope the reel serves you well. alan
Thank you, Alan. I have not fished it enough is the only problem so far :'( I really like the handle on it though, and will check for clicking.
there is a problem with the reel?
I have two Torium 30's that I have owned for about 5 years. When they were new Shimano sent me replacement dogs and something else, I think the ratchet gear but I can't remember. I have not had any trouble with the reels but I did notice one of the dogs was worn this year so I replaced it but I have a question about your comment above:
"you can see already how the pawl is damaged. the anti-reverse roller bearing in this reel is totally shot, so the pawl is doing all of the work."
Does this mean my anti-reverse bearing is starting to go or already gone? Is there any way to test the AR bearing or do I just have to wait for bloody knuckles? It sounded like you said the Trinidad DC's double height tube and roller bearing would fit in the Torium but it's not clear from this post whether you tried it. If I need to replace my existing anti-reverse bearing anyway, should I use the one from teh Trinidad DC?
get the dog and spring set from shimano (877-577-0600) and don't worry about the AR bearing. if they are out, let me know. :-\
I performed the upgrade - the washer, and my local shop did not mention the extended sleeve and roller bearing. I am not sure if I need the washer, but would like to know more about the sleeve and roller bearing upgrade.
Thank You for any advice, my friend is using this reel for chasing the great white SB and I know he overextends the reel.
i never looked into the taller AR bearing and sleeve any further. the spring loaded dog basically took care of the problem. alan
Thanks Alan, just wanted to be sure I got it right. I don't want a failure when I'm on the boat.
Thanks again, Brendan.
I'm wondering how often this problem happens. I fish the heck out of my toriums, and have never had this problem. I replaced the pawl once on my 20 because it was showing some wear, but never on my 16 or 14. Do you think the failure happens from lack of maintanance or just a random part failure. Do you think the DC upgarde is actuallty a stronger part? Seems like just putting in a fresh pawl would do the same.
a damaged ambassaduer style dog is a sign of one of two things. either the anti-reverse roller bearing is slipping or the drag is sticking, or both. both of these problems appear as the reel ages.
Replaced the drags with carbontex when I changed the pawl, reel has been working fine.
I used a friends older Trinidad 40 on a 7ft rod with 65ish braid for big muttons and grouper and I really like the compact and easy feel of that setup. I could easily use it for jigging tuna or other pelagics also. It could also be trolled. Doing alot of reading and seems I want to match em up with some aqua blue Terez rods to match the boat(yes shimano marketting works). Any opinions on what if any is a better reel to fish 65-80 lb braid for what I'm trying to do? I have plenty of trolling outfits and 2 Saragosas for jigging so this is more of a bottom setup first.
Interesting that Shimano has put the eared type dogs on the new Trinidad A. Yes, I know it has 2 of them, but I think I would rather the single sprung dog system on the DC.
shimano's market surveys probably indicated that THIS was what the public wanted, regardless of the risks.
My take on it is that reel manufacturers want a silent anti-reverse first.. at almost any cost.
I have a really good idea that would make it completely silent yet strong like a spring loaded dog.. starting to think I should get a patent on it.. ;D
Yes, a lot of guys just don`t like a reel that clicks.
The Talica 20 two speed has 3 of these Ambassadeur style pawls.
You going to let us know:)
Quote from: ReelSpeed on June 08, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
My take on it is that reel manufacturers want a silent anti-reverse first.. at almost any cost.
I have a really good idea that would make it completely silent yet strong like a spring loaded dog.. starting to think I should get a patent on it.. ;D
Quote from: alantani on May 12, 2011, 08:17:18 AM
i never looked into the taller AR bearing and sleeve any further. the spring loaded dog basically took care of the problem. alan
Did you ever look into this since then? Can it be done? Thanks
Quote from: Black Widow Tackle on June 10, 2011, 02:01:24 PM
You going to let us know:)
Quote from: ReelSpeed on June 08, 2011, 10:09:26 PM
My take on it is that reel manufacturers want a silent anti-reverse first.. at almost any cost.
I have a really good idea that would make it completely silent yet strong like a spring loaded dog.. starting to think I should get a patent on it.. ;D
You get any further on this great idea yet? I am interested.
the trinidad DC dog and spring drop right in without the washer. for the second dog, the spring has to be bent out quite a ways. and the base needs to be ground down a little for the spring to lay flush. when i get this last batch of reels done, i will do a post on this. alan
it's the trinidad dc spring. the pawl is the orginal one from the plain trinidad or torium reels with the leaf springs removed. they are thinner. that's why the washer was needed.
Ahh. There you go.
Thanks a million Alan.
where do I order the prawl spring and prawl? Does any one have it locally? Hawaii?
jim cornered the market. i have several left over. send me a pm with your address and i will ship one out to you. alan
Ok so i did the install and it worked for about half the day. When out of the blue there was no clicking i figure the spring fell out of place. When i got home opened up my tn-30 found out that part of the spring that bent up to hold the pawl from bending back snapped! Does anybody had this happen to them?Is there a way i can install another spring without the thought that it wont break?
send me a pm with your address and i will send you another spring. hopefully this one will hold up. alan
Hi Alan,
We have had the same issues here in SA with the anti-reverse on the Toriums and Trinis being a big problem. A well serviced Anti-reverse bearing is the best way to no get your knuckles damaged. Our local reel Mechanic has also had his own Pawls and gear made up here in Cape Town and along with that had a spring fashioned to give the "clicking" action. He has been doing these conversion for a few years now and it certainly does work! I will see if he will be so kind as to volunteer a few pics of his converted parts. He also has some very special spool mods which he does and it really turns the Toriums into casting machines. We regularly throw them up to and well over 150m with our heavy Shark rods and thick lines!
How far is 150m? Interested in seeing these spool upgrades! Im all open to further increasing casting distance on my tn-30s!!
hey sylvester
did you ever run into barry rebeck.
he had a tackle shop in natal
him and his buddies were invited over to west australia.
they won everything.
he could cast a speedmaster,on a 14.6ft rod a 150metres bait included.
back in 1995.
Quote from: Honkum on March 12, 2012, 09:42:07 AM
How far is 150m? Interested in seeing these spool upgrades! Im all open to further increasing casting distance on my tn-30s!!
Around 164 yds
Quote from: wallacewt on March 12, 2012, 12:05:36 PM
hey sylvester
did you ever run into barry rebeck.
he had a tackle shop in natal
him and his buddies were invited over to west australia.
they won everything.
he could cast a speedmaster,on a 14.6ft rod a 150metres bait included.
back in 1995.
Sorry for the hijack mods!
I live in the Western cape, so no. The Natal guys are the longest on the casting pitch for sure. Due to their rock and surf conditions they have to be able to throw very far. The majority of the top anglers here will put a small, thumb size bait, to around 150 metres.......the Natal guys on average will be 20 - 30 metres further!
1/2 dozen sa fishermen turned up for the comp;and they had 25kgs of fresh squid for bait. they won everything. they pounded the squid with a mallet,cut the squid so it had 2 tails trailing,wrapped it around some pink foam,tied it on with ghost cotton, so it wouldnt snag on the bottom,(float over rocks)and cast it over the end of the earth where it drops off.samson fish,spaniards,snapper you name it they caught it. some aussie didnt fish,they just wanted to watch them and learn,and i missed it.
Quote..samson fish,spaniards,snapper you name it they caught it. some aussie didnt fish,they just wanted to watch them and learn,and i missed it...
Pity, sounds awesome. Great story though.
Alan, will this upgrade work on a TN40N?
Quote from: redsetta on March 13, 2012, 06:13:49 AM
Quote..samson fish,spaniards,snapper you name it they caught it. some aussie didnt fish,they just wanted to watch them and learn,and i missed it...
Pity, sounds awesome. Great story though.
Barry Rebek used to work for Basil Manning Fishing Tackle, think also he had national angling colours, he was one of the owners of BM, this story I think was on their website or one of the Western Australian websites. It was good to see our butt whipping of Australians extended beyond the cricket and rugby fields :) ;) ;) ;) Yes we do beat squid with a mallet and cut the bait into a shape to look like a small squid, some people even add eyes depending on how clean the water is. Beating the squid releases the flavour better and it only helps to use very fresh squid with pure white meat that the skin hasn't discoloured pink.
Should work. I believe that the pawl system is the same in the trinidad reels, but the differences is in the gears.
thanks capefish,
keep teaching,we are quick learners.
couple of blokes i know fished against barry r.
every team that goes to sa has a hard time of it
but we will get ya,just like the americas cup.
all the best ;D
Quote from: Londonking on March 28, 2012, 04:07:05 AM
Alan, will this upgrade work on a TN40N?
yes! http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3570.0
Just finished upgrading the torium 20 Dog/spring and carbontex drags. Very simple with this tutorial.
glad it worked!
Alan,
I've done the drag upgrade and spring pawl addition but have a question. Does the anti-reverse bearing matter anymore? It seems like the spring/pawl system is sufficient by itself (like a Newell and other reels). I guess the arb is still doing work with a safe backup if it fails. Do I have that right?
One other question: the new accurate bx2 (dpx2 series) reels have a triple dog and arb in the smaller models for a more reliable anti-reverse system (one always engaged). How is this different from the previous bx2 series? Did those just have an arb with a single dog prone to failure under heavy drag/failing arb (not engaged 100% of the time)?
Quote from: drewsung on October 15, 2012, 03:46:33 AM
I've done the drag upgrade and spring pawl addition but have a question. Does the anti-reverse bearing matter anymore? It seems like the spring/pawl system is sufficient by itself (like a Newell and other reels). I guess the arb is still doing work with a safe backup if it fails. Do I have that right?
The ARB is still working. To the angler, there is not back play of the handle which everone likes. Then, when the drag is exceeded, it slips and the pawl and racket picks it up. You don't feel a thing, but it's engaged.
Quote from: drewsung on October 15, 2012, 03:46:33 AM
One other question: the new accurate bx2 (dpx2 series) reels have a triple dog and arb in the smaller models for a more reliable anti-reverse system (one always engaged). How is this different from the previous bx2 series? Did those just have an arb with a single dog prone to failure under heavy drag/failing arb (not engaged 100% of the time)?
I believe that the BX2 series used 2 ARBs stacked in-line, so the stopping power was based on the combination of 2 ARBs working instead of one. Those, like the previous reels, were prone to failing under heavy drag. Th triple dog should eliminate that issue.
if i am not mistaken the 2nd generation bx2 has only 1 ARB...
Was that one with a longer ARB? If so, I think you are right. Man, I'm getting old.
bryan you're right, the BX2 has 2. confused it with the BX which has only 1...
Quote from: Sylvester on March 12, 2012, 09:25:49 AM
Hi Alan,
We have had the same issues here in SA with the anti-reverse on the Toriums and Trinis being a big problem. A well serviced Anti-reverse bearing is the best way to no get your knuckles damaged. Our local reel Mechanic has also had his own Pawls and gear made up here in Cape Town and along with that had a spring fashioned to give the "clicking" action. He has been doing these conversion for a few years now and it certainly does work! I will see if he will be so kind as to volunteer a few pics of his converted parts. He also has some very special spool mods which he does and it really turns the Toriums into casting machines. We regularly throw them up to and well over 150m with our heavy Shark rods and thick lines!
I have one of the Tor30 conversions done by the mentioned reel mechanic. Its been trouble free for the past three years.
Forgive my confusion, but am I correct in assuming that the spacer washer is unecessary if you are using a TN-20dc dog instead of an altered stock dog?
that is correct!
I tried ordering the TGT1303 and TGT1304 on line and everywhere has them listed as obsolete and out of stock. Does any one have these or know where to source them from?
Rob
Call Shimano.
rob, i still have some. send my an e-mail with your address and i will ship it out.
Thanks Alan I sent you an e-mail.
Rob
Does anyone know where I can get the parts?
Shimano is out of stock and will not be getting them for a couple of months.
Send Alan Tani a PM. He has a few left.
Aloha All,
Okay, I'm a lurker, but coming out into the open now! Haha! You guys got me all amped on wanting to upgrade my newly acquired Torium 50 and Trinidad 30A. I recently bought these to reboot my fishing interests after many years of not going and started to read the articles on this site. Basically it told me that I had, now two brand new reels, that could possibly fail on me at the worst possible time. For myself, it was only a natural urge to get it right before anything bad happened. Losing "the big one" in whatever way you fish is one of the worst feelings for any fisherman or woman! I should know since I was a boat owner and lost a few large ahi on the way into the fishbox! So in order to fix this problem I had PM'd Alan to try and get some parts, but he is a very busy man. Then I called Shimano and they told me that MAYBE by the end of the 2013 year they would get some TN-DC spring and pawl parts in stock. So that leaves me to ask if there is anyone out there that has the parts that I could buy from? I am sure a lot of unknowing folks would like to buy them too if they read what I have on this site. For my 2 reels I would need 4 of each, TGT-0047 and TGT1303. Or just the 4 ea. springs and I can buy the washers (TLD-0047) from Shimano. Just thought I would ask, since Shimano is out of stock. :)
Regards to All,
Ken :)
Aloha Ken,
Alan is catching up gradually. Please be patient. Alan just got a bunch from Jim (I should have gotten some as well, but didn't).
You would definitely want to upgrade the drag washers on the Torium. They have a solid carbon drag and it sticks something aweful when pulled long and hard. Contact Dawn at SmoothDrag.com.
The Trinidad 30A should have Carbon Fiber washers in them already.
Bryan
Alohas Bryan,
I didn't mean to sound like I am in a rush and I know Alan is very busy. I see him and your green "online" lights often while I am reading the threads. Therefore, it is very apparent you two spend lots of time working on this site. Anyway, yes the Torium is a scare when I found out that the handle can go berserk. I wanted to change out the pawl configuration and the drag washers if ever the big strike happens. Since I am a newbie, I googled the washers and got the carbontex washers from another site. I wish I had seen the SmoothDrag.com listed on this site earlier so I could have gotten them from those guys/gals. I also googled the spring and pawl for the Trinidad DC and found that Mikes Reel Repair in Canada may have had some. At least the order went through with the emailed "reply" receipt. I don't know for sure if they have them in stock or not. Nevertheless I ordered enough to upgrade both reels with a few back ups in case those stainless steel springs fatigue and break or the pawl wears beyond its proper intended geometry. I just hope I don't have to try and make them myself since I am in the metal working business and could be successful with some concentrated effort. Springs are certainly not fun to make since the stainless steel springs back open when you go around your die posts in the bending process. But enough of that and I may have procured everything I need to do the work myself. Please forgive me for PM'ing Alan and asking for help on here without doing the legwork myself first. Sometimes just reading an article can easily incite an urgent need to get things right before they break. I do thank all of you for your expertise and knowledge in the business though! It is a great feeling to know that help is out there and what better people than the guys who fish and fix rods/reels on a daily basis.
Sincere Regards,
Kenneth :D
Quote from: keneke on October 18, 2013, 06:10:39 PM
Alohas Bryan,
I didn't mean to sound like I am in a rush and I know Alan is very busy. I see him and your green "online" lights often while I am reading the threads. Therefore, it is very apparent you two spend lots of time working on this site. Anyway, yes the Torium is a scare when I found out that the handle can go berserk. I wanted to change out the pawl configuration and the drag washers if ever the big strike happens. Since I am a newbie, I googled the washers and got the carbontex washers from another site. I wish I had seen the SmoothDrag.com listed on this site earlier so I could have gotten them from those guys/gals. I also googled the spring and pawl for the Trinidad DC and found that Mikes Reel Repair in Canada may have had some. At least the order went through with the emailed "reply" receipt. I don't know for sure if they have them in stock or not. Nevertheless I ordered enough to upgrade both reels with a few back ups in case those stainless steel springs fatigue and break or the pawl wears beyond its proper intended geometry. I just hope I don't have to try and make them myself since I am in the metal working business and could be successful with some concentrated effort. Springs are certainly not fun to make since the stainless steel springs back open when you go around your die posts in the bending process. But enough of that and I may have procured everything I need to do the work myself. Please forgive me for PM'ing Alan and asking for help on here without doing the legwork myself first. Sometimes just reading an article can easily incite an urgent need to get things right before they break. I do thank all of you for your expertise and knowledge in the business though! It is a great feeling to know that help is out there and what better people than the guys who fish and fix rods/reels on a daily basis.
Sincere Regards,
Kenneth :D
Keneke, Give Bucko's Reel Repair in Fall River, Ma. They generally have a good stock of parts for the Torium. That's where I got my parts for these reels some time ago.
Bucko's Phone # 1-508-674-7900
Mike
Aloha Ellis and Mike,
Thank you for the info about Bucko's and I will be sure to give him a call. The only dilemma is that the parts I need to do the upgrade are for a Trinidad DC which reel Shimano no longer makes, but supposedly makes the parts for. The very parts that folks go looking for when they read Alan's threads of upgrading these reels. I talked to a reel repair guy here in Hawaii by the name of Frank Yin and he said he use to have the parts for the upgrade, but ran out like everyone else. He also said that the upgrade cannot be accomplished on my Trinidad 30A. I guess he was alluding to the internals being different and would not suit the geometry of the DC parts. Nyet for the 30A, but that's fine since I will be using it for lighter fishing drag settings. I may end up making my own springs for the Torium 50, but that could also fail and leave me with a knuckle buster just like the ambassadeur pawl spring in the original parts setup. I use to make my own springs out of music wire for one of my drag dogs, but somehow they wouldn't last. Maybe it was the wrong alloy or the bends weren't in radial perfection so the crack propagation started at a stress riser in the bend and an failure situation developed. Oh well, all we can do is strive to make things better and the rest is left up to chance, Murphy's Laws, the laws of physics, and plain old good luck! Which is what fishing is all about! Lots and lots of good old fashion luck!
Regards,
Ken
Alohas again,
Okay, it was worth the effort to at least try so I called Bucko's and they don't have the parts for the upgrade. Does anyone have the diameter of the wire used to make the springs? It looks to be around 0.015 or 0.020 in diameter. I may try and make them to see how that works out. That or I will just have to be patient and wait for either Alan to help me out or Shimano to make more of those parts. Thanks guys. :)
Regards,
Ken
Ken,
Are you located in Hawaii? If so, I believe Brian's Fishing Supply has the parts you need as well.
Bryan
Alohas Bryan,
I called Brian's and he did say he had the parts and would charge $15 for installation plus the cost of parts. Which would be 2 ea. kits of spring and pawl, as Brian's sells them. If there was any other issues within the reel he said he would address them at that time, just to avoid customer complaints later on for something that was not his fault. Luckily my reel is new, but it would be nice to have someone take a look inside to make sure everything is looking great. I should be telling him to install the carbontex washer kit at the same time, but I have not seen them in the mail as of yet. Maybe he carries them as well so I will tell him to install those so the upgrade is complete.
Oh and yes Bryan, I am in Hawaii on the island of Oahu. Sorry for not conveying that sooner.
Regards,
Ken
The DC dogs and springs are on back order status with Shimano (i'm still waiting for a 80 piece order). If you need them badly you can take the standard dog and rip the tabs off and file the sides smooth (remove the spot weld marks). As far as the spring I have not looked for an alternative.
Jim N.
Quote from: keneke on October 21, 2013, 08:33:09 PM
Alohas Bryan,
I called Brian's and he did say he had the parts and would charge $15 for installation plus the cost of parts. Which would be 2 ea. kits of spring and pawl, as Brian's sells them. If there was any other issues within the reel he said he would address them at that time, just to avoid customer complaints later on for something that was not his fault. Luckily my reel is new, but it would be nice to have someone take a look inside to make sure everything is looking great. I should be telling him to install the carbontex washer kit at the same time, but I have not seen them in the mail as of yet. Maybe he carries them as well so I will tell him to install those so the upgrade is complete.
Oh and yes Bryan, I am in Hawaii on the island of Oahu. Sorry for not conveying that sooner.
Regards,
Ken
Aloha Ken,
I'm pretty sure that Brian's caries Carbontex Drag Kits for your reels as well. Give him a call so that he can order them if he is indeed out so that they will be there for your reel when you do take them in.
Please give my alohas to him when you see Brian.
Bryan
Hi Bryan,
I sure will pass on the "Alohas" to Brian when I stop by tomorrow, in morning sometime. I hope he will be open in the morning since fishermen are sometimes getting up late especially if the bite was on! Just kidding! I once went fishing the night before then got up dog tired to pack up my stuff and went to work in the morning. I can honestly say it was not easy! The worst part is my friend who was still at the beach came tearing into my workplace at around 8:30 AM and showed me his 55 lb. ulua in the trunk of his VW. I was happy for him, but I still had a long day ahead.
Yes, I did call up Brian and asked if he had the washers? He said he did have them so I will get a complete upgrade instead of a partial. Whew! With that taken care of, I am happy that I won't have to worry too much about my knuckles and fingers getting all busted up!
Maybe someday someone will come up with a fix for the Trinidad 30A which in the break apart drawing, looks like the same set up as the Toriums and gold Trinidads. I talked to Brian about the 30A and he said he may be able to do something, but wasn't 100% sure if it could be done.
Regards,
Ken
P.S. Thank you JGB for the info about the pawl and how to get them to work with a little finese'n. I did read Alan's post on the subject, but without the factory springs, it would have left me with taking the time to make my own. So Bryan came to the rescue and mentioned Brian's Fishing Supply, a local shop, that could take are of all my needs in one stop with the Trinidad DC parts. I called Shimano and they said maybe by the end of the year for the springs and pawls.
So, I did the drag upgrade to my Torium 20 and now my anti-reverse has had problems. I am guessing when I took apart dog/pawl, I may have damaged it, although it would be unnoticeable to the naked eye. Luckily, I didnt hook into the 30 lb class pelagic fish with this reel. Did cast into their boils... :o
So Shimano is replacing this system with a spring, and shim? Of course I dont mind paying for it.
Quote from: Kayaker on December 29, 2013, 05:00:10 AM
So, I did the drag upgrade to my Torium 20 and now my anti-reverse has had problems. I am guessing when I took apart dog/pawl, I may have damaged it, although it would be unnoticeable to the naked eye. Luckily, I didnt hook into the 30 lb class pelagic fish with this reel. Did cast into their boils... :o
So Shimano is replacing this system with a spring, and shim? Of course I dont mind paying for it.
If you have the original anti-reverse, you will need to just squeeze the metal fins on the pawl together to add some additional tension or you may have gotten grease in that area and it got stuck.
I personally would go with an upgrade spring and pawl.. No need for the ship if you use a new pawl from the Trini DC reels. Shimano seems to still be out. Ping Alan or myself if you want a set to install in your Torium 20.
Bryan
Thanks Bryan, got my spring and pawl upgrade today, installed, reel working great! 8)
Quote from: Kayaker on January 06, 2014, 09:16:37 PM
Thanks Bryan, got my spring and pawl upgrade today, installed, reel working great! 8)
You're welcome. Glad it worked out for you.
Quick question, has shimano updated their reels to spring and pawl, or still using Ambassador pawl? I am sure the answer is in this thread somewhere. ???
Just curious, need to know if I need to update a new shimano reel once I buy it! :-*
They are still using Ambassador style pawls.
Even my new Talica 20 II has Ambassador style pawls. They put in three, I guess hoping at least one will work!
Robb
Just discovered that the Torsa line also uses Ambassador style pawls except for Torsa 40. I wonder if part TGT1225 (spring) and TGT1224 (pawl) are equivalent to the Trinidad 20 DC TGT1304 (spring) and TGT1303 (pawl). The spring looks different, but may function the same. I think I will need to order a set of the Torsa 40 parts on my next Shimano order for comparison since the Trini 20 DC spring and pawls are sold out, and have been for a while.
Quote from: Bryan Young on January 09, 2014, 03:24:03 PM
Just discovered that the Torsa line also uses Ambassador style pawls except for Torsa 40. I wonder if part TGT1225 (spring) and TGT1224 (pawl) are equivalent to the Trinidad 20 DC TGT1304 (spring) and TGT1303 (pawl). The spring looks different, but may function the same. I think I will need to order a set of the Torsa 40 parts on my next Shimano order for comparison since the Trini 20 DC spring and pawls are sold out, and have been for a while.
I think the Torsa 40 ones are larger but can't be sure, sold my 40 a while ago, I've got a memory like a goldfish ???
Just bought the dc pawl and spring at sav- on tackle, Santa Fe springs,ca. They have a whole bag full, Mas said no one buys these parts! Little expensive though, $3.10 together.
That's a good price. Unless you buy a lot to defer the cost of shipping, it gets expensive getting it from Shimano
Plus tax, and the eight dollars in fuel to get there and back.
it's $3 here as well, but only $2 to mail! ;D
Hello Alan,
Sometimes when I apply the DC dog and spring to the torium or trinidad it works flawlessly.
However, sometimes, even with the DC dog, I still experience the spring getting binded between the dog and the reel thus causing the dog to get stuck in the up and out position from the ratchet gear.
I tried using the tld washer (TLD0047) and the pawl keeper when screwed down binded the pawl so that the pawl did not move at all.
When you used the TLD washer as a shim, did you sand it down to make it thinner?
Thanks, ???
Hi Frank,
I've had similar experienes with the spring slipping under the pawl. I bent up the spring against the pawl more so that it doesn't slip under and bind. So far so good.
Bryan
Hi Bryan,
Thanks for the response. Yes, sometimes I also bend the straight part of the spring up to hug the pawl, but the part that seems to be binding is the circular part when the pawl is lifted way up because of the high point of the ratchet teeth. Its like the circular part sitting under the pawl becomes elogated or oblong shapped when the wire is torqued because the pawl is lifted really high. Then it tends to bind right in the skinny crack between the under side of the pawl and the base of the silver pin that the pawl is rotating on. :-\
I called Shimano today to order the Trinidad dc pawl and spring today. The Shimano rep asked me what reel I was putting these parts on and when I told him I was upgrading my Torium 20 he sent them to me free of charge.
nice!
I stopped by Shimano yesterday and they just gave me two of the pawls and springs.
That's nice, I think I have one set left.
I put the DC pawl/spring in my 16 today. I had to leave the screws in the pawl keeper fairly loose or the pawl doesn't engage.
Hone it down with a sharpening stone to make it thinner.
or put 2 very small washers under the keeper to lift it up a bit.
Well, I just called shimano to order more springs and pawls as my supply is running low, and they are out. I especially needed more springs for any Tekotas as I figured out a bend that works on Tekotas.
Anyway,
Not sure when they will replenish their stock.
I seem to be doing quite a few of these mods...
I have already run thru two orders of 20 springs and pawls.
One of the things we all know is this. If the TGT 306 keeper is screwed down too tight the pawl will jam open. I have been using blue loctite for some time and will have the occasional reel come back to me. I find that the loctite was compromised by the solvents, oils etc used to clean and lube the reel.
IO have taken to "stake" the threads on the TGT 305 screws. I use this heavy pair of wire cutters and come about half way up the screw. Crimp down hard. Rotate 90 degrees and repeat. I do this to both screwes.
This has been working fine on my Toriums which I pull down regularly to check them. As well as customers..
(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll422/triumphrick/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030001_zpsklqderol.jpg) (http://s314.photobucket.com/user/triumphrick/media/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030001_zpsklqderol.jpg.html)
(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll422/triumphrick/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030002_zpsirjsz3bk.jpg) (http://s314.photobucket.com/user/triumphrick/media/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030002_zpsirjsz3bk.jpg.html)
(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll422/triumphrick/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030003_zpsea6v1qef.jpg) (http://s314.photobucket.com/user/triumphrick/media/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030003_zpsea6v1qef.jpg.html)
(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll422/triumphrick/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030004_zpsftzfzs9v.jpg) (http://s314.photobucket.com/user/triumphrick/media/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030004_zpsftzfzs9v.jpg.html)
(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll422/triumphrick/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030005_zpscgp0rzvf.jpg) (http://s314.photobucket.com/user/triumphrick/media/Torium%2030%20anti%20reverse%20mod/P9030005_zpscgp0rzvf.jpg.html)
I did a Torium TN30 today, all straightforward, everything fitted without any modifications. Did not need a washer under the dog either.
Still wanted to test the AR bearing without the dog but it slipped my mind. Next time.
Will go test the reel shortly.
If your wondering if the clutch bearing is slipping I can guarantee it is.
Every Shimano I have done, 100's, will have a beaten up dog. Most people don't know it's slipping because the ratchet catches so quickly.
Keith
Quote from: handi2 on January 25, 2017, 08:42:36 PM
If your wondering if the clutch bearing is slipping I can guarantee it is.
Every Shimano I have done, 100's, will have a beaten up dog. Most people don't know it's slipping because the ratchet catches so quickly.
Keith
Would not really surprise me at al, but now you will cause me to check every reel I service just to see for myself. I grew up with reels without ARB's so I guess its not a serious issue.
Today I tested the drag on my oldest Tranx 500HG, the only work I've ever done on the drag stack was to grind the metal plates flat on 600 grit water paper. I was pretty impressed, I got 23.62 lb (11kg) after turning the star very tight. It is less then what Shimano rates the reel at 25lb, but I am happy with that result.
But look at the second picture, this was achieved without the AR dogs in place. At that point the bearing gently started to slip, so perhaps with the dogs in place it will still go a bit higher.
Just a general newbie question but would too much grease on the pinion gear affect the freespool? I just opened my my torium 16 did some quick cleaning and greased my main gears. I noticed a bunch of grease building up on my pinion gear but just left it as is. Also I am waiting for my spool pin tool to come in so that I can change out the bearings or Atleast try to clean them first. But I was wondering any pros or cons with too much grease on the pinion gear and if I should open it back up and remove some. Thanks guys!
If the grease is restrited to the teeth of the gears it won't, but if it gets on to the inside of the pinion and spool shaft yes it would. And you can presume it would get there if its excessive.
Question:-
Would you notice it though?
Are the spring and pawl still available somewhere? I have a torium 16 and 20 I'd like to upgrade. Thanks
Sav-on tackle had a lot of them last time I bought some. Evidently most fishermen don't know about this modification or work on their own reels. Be ready with the parts numbers if you order over the phone or in person.
Help! The Shimano anti-reverse pawl and spring that we have been using for the Torium and Trinidad mods is now no longer available from Shimano. They are out, and have no plans to make any more of them....this would be Shimano part number TGT1303, TGT1304 .
We can remove the existing pawl and rework it, but the spring is a whole nother issue.....anyone familiar with another spring that will work?
Sav-on is out of them too. I could use a couple sets too is any one knows where to get them