5/5/07 - downriggers
quite a while back, i was explaining to richard how i set up my downriggers. he has the same scotty downriggers that i have and wanted to set up his the same way. before reel repair took over my life and my garage, i actually went out and fished. anyway, i guess he was having some problems with his downriggers, so he came by the house last month so that we could dial them in.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_095.jpg)
we started off by peeling off last years wire. you have to either hold the lever by hand, or cheat and use a big rubberband.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_092.jpg)
and away he goes!
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_093.jpg)
we quickly got down to wire that was looking pretty good but inspected every inch of wire anyway. after a brief discussion, we decided to cut off the kinked section only. with the little bit that we've been fishing lately, we'll probably be ok and will completely replace the wire next year.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_075.jpg)
peeling off all of the wire brings us down to the bottom of the spool. note that the wire is tied in a knot and taped to the spool. not a problem, per se.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_076.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_077.jpg)
i cut out the knot, rethreaded the wire through the spool and put a couple of crimps in line. again, this is no big deal. just like a fishing reel, you will never see the bottom of the spool anyway.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_094.jpg)
i don't really care for these barrel swivel snaps, but the down rigger weight retriever works great. i actually have stainless steel pulleys on mine, but these lime green retrivers seem to work just fine.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_079.jpg)
first, slide on the weight retriever sleeve, then four rubber bumpers, then three double crimp sleeves, the ball bearing swivel and then crimp the wire into position.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_080.jpg)
then the four bumpers are slid down into postion.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_081.jpg)
on this particular downrigger, we cut off 11 feet of wire, so the counter now had to be reset.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_0821.jpg)
make sure the counter wheel is clear of these pins.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_0831.jpg)
turn the wheel manually until the counter reads zero.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_084.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_085.jpg)
just like a fishing reel, the scotty downrigger has a drag system. with 12-15# downrigger weights, i like to set the drags to 30#'s. find a spring scale and give it a pull.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_086.jpg)
to adjust the drag washers, lift the cover and remove the emergency crank handle. tighten or loosen the bottom nut to adjust the drag.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_087.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_088.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_089.jpg)
we installed a downrigger weight hook.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_090.jpg)
and the all important autostop.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_091.jpg)
the line release is one of the most critical parts of the downrigger system. one of the things that i do differently is to "set" the clips so that it takes 7-8 pounds of pull from a salmon to release the line. i would encourage all of you to check your releases. to do so, take a 6 foot length of mono from your reel and tie it off to something at both ends. attach the release clip to the center of the line.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_101.jpg)
now attach a scale and give it a pull. when i do this, i'm looking for 7-8 pounds of hold. the amount of hold that you get on your own clips depends in part on the line weight that you use. there would obviously be a difference between 12# test and 30#.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_102.jpg)
i use 20# berkeley big game on all of my downrigger trolling reels. with a stock scotty clip, i usually get 3-4 pounds. to get the 7-8 pounds that i wanted, i had to install an 8mm plastic bead to spread the tail of the clip, then recrimp everything.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_099.jpg)
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Picture_100.jpg)
in setting up the reel, i use straight 20# berkeley big game on my daiwa sg 17 lca's. the reels are upgraded with greased carbon fiber drag washer and a pete kolekar grip on a daiwa power handle arm.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0427.JPG)
the rods are 8.5 foot lamiglass steelhead rods rated at 10-20. i set the drag washers on the reels using a 2.5 pound salmon ball. to do this, i tie the line off to the lead ball, crank down on the drag, reel down and lift until the rod butt is at a 45 degree angle. then i back off on the drag until the weight drops 1 foot every 5 seconds. now i have a 2.5 pound drag setting through the guides. the guides alone will typically give you 10%.
remember the clip has 7-8 pounds worth of hold. all i have to do is put the line in the clip and the rod in the holder, then hit the downrigger lever and the 15 pound weight will pull the line down all by itself, hands free. the rod is exerting 2.5 pounds of pull upwards on the clip. with 7-8 pounds of hold by the clip, a salmon would then have to give you 5 pounds of pull the release the line. 5 pounds should give you a pretty decent hookset.
i don't know whose boat this is, but this is what the final result looks like.
(http://www.fullspeedfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC01891.jpg)
QuoteHi Alan, Where did you find those weight holders for the downriggers? I have been looking for some but cannot find them. Thanks in advance.
i got mine at the local fisherman's warehouse in san jose. otherwise, call this guy.
Fisherman's Friend
440 East Kettleman Lane
Lodi, CA
209-369-0204
hope he doesn't mind my posting this. marc and i spend most of yesterday working on his scotty manual downriggers. we strung them up with spectra, then i tied up a bimini and tied the ball bearing swivel with a double uni. we took apart the the down riggers and cleaned up the brakes, added cal's grease, and i even snuck in a penn #6-49 drag washer in between the top of the spool and the metal pressure plate. the "drags" were set to 25 pounds. pretty smooth, i thought. we also cooked up 50 pounds of lead and made him four of the 12 pound downrigger weights. looks like he finished mounting his downriggers sometime today. very nice looking boat. alan
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_09_05_10_8_00_04_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/2/1_09_05_10_8_00_06_1.jpeg)
Quote
Hi, Alan. My salmon rods and tackle were stolen from me memorial day. Sabre rods using Shimano TLD 20s and two Calstar rods with Pro Gear reels. Need to replace - two side Calstars were 7.5 -8' long to troll off sides of my Grady sailfish. I welcome your opinion of what I should get - I am not up to speed on new gear. Going to be trolling with 2.5# balls and occasionally 3# . Two speed or? Thanks for your help.
ugghhhhhh! i had a local stereo shop install an alarm with a proximity sensor and siren.
for 2.5 pound salmon trolling, i use a set of penn 320 GT2's on a set of 7 foot calstar 270's that are rated 12-30#'s. i changed out the handles from the stock rubber grips to the penn senator power handles and loaded them with straight 30# test. the shimano tld 20 single speeds are the same size as a penn 4/0 senator. i think it's a little large for 2.5 pound salmon trolling.
with lead at $3 per pound, you might consider downriggers. i like the scotty electrics http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=54.0 for downrigger trolling, i'd recommend an 8.5 foot steelhead rod rated 10-20#'s. i have a set of lamiglass rods. the reel i use is the daiwa sealine 17 line counter loaded with straight 20# test. the reason for the line counter is so that these rods and reels can do double duty for salmon mooching. we fish as a team and work the entire water column when mooching. when someone hooks up, you need to check your counter and tell everyone else where you are. if the hook up is at 78 feet, then everyone can automatically go to 78 and hopefully get just as lucky. hope this helps! alan
Hi Alan,
I purchased two Scotty 1106's for my 17' arima Sea Ranger and am struggling with where to mount them. I noticed in this post that you and Marc mounted his downriggers closer to amidship than the stern on his 18' Whaler. What was the thinking behind that decision?
I'm considering mounting my downriggers closer to amidship to make them easier to rig, keep weight off the stern and keep the gunwhales open for playing and landing fish. My concern is that I will be more likely to get lines caught in the kicker.
Also, why four Scotty stop bumpers on each electric downrigger?
Thanks a million for all the great info!
All the best,
Matt M
the farther forward they are, the less likely they are to get fouled in the prop. you can also try one of these for the kicker.
(http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/100_0372.JPG)
i forget who makes the prop guard, but that might be an option for you. the extra bumpers were added just because i have a few extra. the most important thing is to set the drag on the downrigger!
http://www.propsavers.com/
Alan,
Question on an old thread. When you set the drag on the Scotty, are you pulling 30lbs of drag for a 15lb lead ball with the clutch brake engaged? Or are you pulling 30lbs with the clutch brake released (pulled back)?
Thanks,
Tad
no ball, just the swivel and the lever engaged.
Thanks Alan
Why do You still using Ball weight?????
Your ball form forces a lot on the wire and rigger itself..The ball form provides heigher wire's angle and you need more mass to make the angle close to 90 degrees.
Check this out-it has been widely used in our waters..I aslo use it (12LB)
(http://i020.radikal.ru/1402/18/6d46195b3152.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)
(http://i057.radikal.ru/1402/75/c5a38b21a823.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)
Quote from: coralsea on February 11, 2014, 11:59:45 AM
Why do You still using Ball weight???..Your ball form forces a lot on the wire and rigger itself..The ball form provides heigher wire's angle and you need more mass to make the angle close to 90 degrees.
Those are called
Pancake weights here-sine we often fish in heavy currents and that style of weight is known to sheer off often sometime into each other thus causing serious and expensive problems.
So using one is OK but two or more is asking for trouble sooner or later.
I understand.
But..can the problem be solved by using Longarms downriggers along with the different weight of the loading???
Quote from: coralsea on February 11, 2014, 11:15:37 PM
I understand.
But..can the problem be solved by using Longarms downriggers along with the different weight of the loading???
Sooner or later the disc weight will betray you (!)
Where we fish the currents a few meters down can be travelling in another direction and @ another speed-the commercial Salmon trollers all use round balls for this reason.
Pancake weights work, and work well if the water supports them. I think the best way to say it is it is great if you can use a pancake weight, but you can always use a ball weight. Sorta like braid and mono if you think about it.
Ron
Thanks to ALL.
Anyone ever you Z-Wings? We are thinking about installing those in place of the weights - supposed to work far better
We used to use downriggers alot for Salmon fishing, and transitioned to using them in saltwater (for Wahoo w/Ballyhoo), and Yellowfin Tuna (w/Rapalas), as well as fishing live Bonito. We've tried the cannon balls, cannon balls w/plate, and Z wings. The Z wings do get down deeper at speed, and were great for fishimg the great lakes for salmon. As I recall we occasionally used them when saltwater trolling, but eventually went back to the plain old cannon balls. I think it may have had something to do with how they behaved after we hooked up, and were clearing lines, or maybe they didn't run as straight when fishing rough seas in the trough. I seem to remember cutting wire out of the prop more often with them. They do run deeper though. Doesn't hurt to try them out for yourself. Maybe try running one on one rigger, and a ball on the other. Drop to the same 'depth' setting, and see which one is running deeper, and trackimg straighter in the turns. You can use a compass, or I think they make an aftermarket dohicky that does the work for you, to tell you the true depth. I do know we tried alot if fancy spreads the first seversl years of offshore fishing, and eventuslly came to the conclusion that 'simplier is better'.