Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Spinning Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn => Topic started by: johndtuttle on October 23, 2012, 10:48:27 PM

Title: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 23, 2012, 10:48:27 PM
G'day Gents,

This new reel from Penn has been generating quite a buzz in the Surf Fishing Community as it has been specifically engineered to meet the requirements of the majority of those that target finned creatures from the beach or shore. This is due to improved sealing to protect the reel from inevitable splashes and inadvertent dunks and is a first for spinning reels at this price. This basic Service Tutorial is intended to provide a visual reference for those attempting the same as included schematics rarely provide much in the way of "assembled" views and notoriously tiny parts can suddenly spring out leading the unwary to come to grief.

This is not a review in any deeper sense as I have not used the reel at length and the true test of it's design will only come with time. Though I may opine a tad here and there this should only be construed as conjecture as only time on the water will test the parts and pieces of this brand new to the market product.  I like everyone else wait for Alan Hawk's definitive review after months of use and real engineering analysis of wear over time to understand what I have in my hands.

The Parts List that we will be using for our reference can be found as a downloadable .pdf here:
http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/content/purefishing/407-SSV4500

Lookie Lookie! It is a surprisingly handsome devil for $139:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_47_17515355.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17516)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_46_17514574.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17515)

But this is not a beauty contest so lets get to work :).

Drag cap, nothing under the screws they simply attach the cosmetic Penn plate but on the underside we see the seal of the top of the drag stack and the Drag Knob Assembly (52):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_47_17516507.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17517)

Disassembled we find the knob clicker assembly and this spring (not shown on the schematic) which is intended to maintain constant pressure on drag so it doesn't loosen from vibration. A little grease on the seal never hurts anything and will improve water-tightness of the stack before putting it back. I used Cal's Drag grease in case any works it's way down as I use Cal's on the drag washers.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_48_175181881.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17519)

Like so, to help seal at the top. This seal slides rather easily around and if it gets out of position your drag will leak. After maintenance I make sure that it is well towards the bottom of the knob then let it find the ideal position as you put the knob back as you screw on the knob on to get a good seal.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_53_175361686.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17537)

The Top Stack (below), remove the Drag Washer Retainer (51) and find one Keyed Drag Washer (57T) and Drag Friction Washer (56T). I did not photograph them as there is simply one each in the top stack with the Spool Bushing (63) below ie not super exciting. I pushed and prodded on the Spool Bushing but it did not budge. This may not be an easily removable part (nor should it necessarily need to be) I will contact Penn and see what they have to say about this. Some have reported Blue Grease in their drag but this reel was dry so the washers got a light coat of Cal's. The Blue Grease you see here was from the Factory from lubing the seal.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_47_175172316.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17518)

Below we find the much more impressive under spool drag with it's eared drag washers. Remove the Drag Cover (47C) by removing it's three screws (22A) one of which goes through the shown wire arm (Line Clip Retainer 47F) which keeps the Line Clip (47D) and it's bushing in place.  One early problem that Penn had in assembly was the proper seating of the Drag Drive Plate Seal (47S). If you look at the image below you can see that the "ears" of the Seal are "flapping in the breeze" as it were and not properly doing their job.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_54_175371821.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17538)

The proper way for it to be seated looks like this:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_54_17539580.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17540)

Which is a little tricky to accomplish after you have taken the Drag Cover off. The easy way to do it (for me) is to put the Drive Plate and Clicker in the Cover and let the ears stay out, otherwise their spring action prevents the Clicker from seating properly (hard to descibe but if you do it, it will become clear) as they cause it pop out when you try and re-assemble. Once you get the Cover back on but with all 3 screws still loose you can gently push the edges of the Seal under the cover with a blunt instrument. Then tighten the screws down and the seal will be held in proper position.

If your ears are not seated properly when you purchase your reel no need to take the Drive Plate completely off. As above, just loosen the 3 screws and gently tuck the ears under then re-tighten.

This is the Drag Drive Plate disassembled, important is that the Keyed Drag Washer Lock Plate (116) holds down a eared Keyed Drag Washer (the one on the left) that keeps the Spool Clicker (48) in position.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_54_175382192.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17539)

Once the cover is off we can pull out the eared Drag Friction Washers (56) and the Keyed Washers (57).  The Drag Drive Plate (117) and the Spool Clicker (48) come off leaving the Drag Cover Seal (48S) on the spool (below). All of these washers got a light coat of Cal's drag grease.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_48_175191022.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17520)

With a good coat of grease on the bottom for lube and for additional water protection (per Penn). This grease will come in contact with water and sand. If you need less sealing, you can go without, if you need as much water resistance as you can get this should be an area you regularly wipe down and reapply fresh grease:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_55_175402445.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17541)

The Line Roller is simple as can be. I like Corrosion-X in here though I greased the screw when I put it back to get some in it's threads:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_48_17520318.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17521)

Below is the entire assembly in order, from L to R the Line Roller Ball Bearing (35A), Line Roller (35), Line Roller Washer (132A), Line Roller Collar (132) and the Line Roller Screw (36).

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_56_175421666.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17543)

Once it's back together you can see the threads on the opposite side of the arm from the Bail Arm Screw (31) and Line Roller Screw (36). In these I put a drop of Corrosion-X and wiped off the excess as they will trap salt and water in those little nooks. You may be tempted to use grease, but it will attract sand.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_49_175222042.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17523)

I did take the Rotor Cover (27A) off to see what Penn was up to with their Bail Spring (32), Pivot Arm (34C) and Bail Trip Lever (28) and found a pretty standard plan. The Bail Spring is surprisingly robust and long so count on it jumping out of it's slot as soon as the cover is loosened. When putting it back together if there is any loose play in the bail it has jumped out of it's slot and you'll have to try again. One hand really has to keep the Spring pressed flat while you squeeze the Cover on with the other or it will squirt out. It's a bit fiddly but it does give the bail a nice firm return.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_53_17535728.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17536)

If your reel has been getting dunked this is an area you need to monitor. The underside of the rotor shows that the Bail Trip Lever comes through this opening to interact with the trip on the Body. That opening will allow water and sand into the housing of the Bail Spring et al so you need to stay on top of this.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_55_17541187.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17542)

Ok, now the real meat and potatoes :). The rotor comes off easily after removing the Main Shaft Washer (39B) and any Spool Adjust Washers (39A) that you may have added. The Rotor Nut (38) comes off after removing the Rotor Nut Locking Plate (95B) by removing it's screw (38A). The nut itself is righty tight, lefty loose. I left the rotor washer (38D) in place.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_49_17521214.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17522)

Then the Pinion Bearing Retainer and it's 3 screws (21A) come off. Careful with these as they were surprisingly tight so don't strip them.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_50_175242440.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17525)

I did not remove the Rotor Brake (28D) as there was no need but it would come off simply with it's 2 screws (28S). The Trip of the Bail is done by this bit of beef on the body itself:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_50_175251830.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17526)

Ok, with the Pinion Bearing Retainer out of the way with some wiggles and shakes out drops the heart of the beast: The pinion Ball Bearings (20A), Pinion Ball Bearing Collar (21B), the Clutch/Sleeve Assembly (98, and nice a nice stainless AR Bearing it appears too), a second pinion Ball Bearing (20A), a mere slip of a Pinion Gear Washer (19A) and the Pinion Gear (19) all in one piece, sliding off of the Main Shaft (39):

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_50_175262055.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17527)

And in their proper order:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_50_17527841.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17528)

For all of this below the Bearing Retainer I found all the parts feeling lightly oiled. Typically this type of "barrel" AR Clutch works fine with some light oil in it. Cleaning as needed should be with a plastic safe solvent and compressed air. The shields on the bearings did have retaining clips and so could be removed to check for adequacy of the factory grease but the clips were very fine and to be honest I didn't have a hook with a small enough tip to get a grip on them. Penn has been doing a really good job getting grease in there recently but the truly dedicated would pull the shields to check.

The reel is partly sealed but you may note that there is none in this area and is the main reason Penn does not rate it for cranking underwater. As the shaft moves up and down it could potentially introduce Salt and Water down into the Bearings and Clutch. I found it all *lightly* oiled from the factory but am confident that a light marine grease is ideal for protection in this area. This type of Clutch uses nylon springs that hold up well to light grease (you can lighten any with Corrosion-X if it is very sticky).

This is how I finish off the top of the assembly with Penn Grease:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_56_175432187.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17544)

Which is not a complete seal by any means. However, it will stop water from getting deeper in the reel after a brief dunk. Afterwards, a brief cleaning out of any discolored grease is all that is required, a re-grease and you are good to go confident that everything is still protected.

The upper Pinion Bearing (20A) For the above reasons also deserves careful attention. I made a quick tutorial for the ideal way to pack it with marine grease:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_44_175081033.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17509)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_45_17511108.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17512)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_45_175102155.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17511)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_46_17512612.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17513)

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_45_17509602.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17510)

I put corrosion-x under the Bearing Retainer and greased it's screws.

The Body Cover comes off easy peasy:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_51_175301924.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17531)

And we get our first look inside (drum roll please :)) to find it all held in in the Body Assembly (1) protected by the Body Seal (2L). Note that this seal per Penn is safe for contact with grease so a thin film on the rim to complete the job should be fine:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_51_17529863.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17530)

The Drive Gear. Aluminum/Zinc Alloy per Penn:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_52_175311716.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17532)

And then the deeper guts with the Drive Gear out of the way with the Oscillation Gear (231) which is driven off of the Main and powers the Oscillation Slider (43) via the Oscillation Slider Guide (43A) which attaches to the Main Shaft to manage line lay:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_52_175332428.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17534)

This is all proven Penn Tech and I did not disassemble them for this basic tutorial. Standard Service should not need their removal nor should you find it challenging to strip them out and clean them if they need it. All that you see here is grease from the factory, even cleaned up a bit for photos, and will be good to go out of the box to fish :).

If you do proceed further and remove the Main Shaft Screws (44) be advised that they should go back with some blue loctite. You don't want them coming loose inside the body ever.

There is a change from Penn's older SS design in that the Handle Assembly (15) simply unscrews from the Drive Gear but if you choose to remove the Bearing Retainer (232) there is a potential Pitfall. This is of the "*Sproing!....tinkle, tinkle* O geez, what was that...." variety: The Handle Cap Lock Pin (15N) and Spring (15M). Ask me how I know this :(. I did remove it to get good grease on the bearing below.

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_53_17534733.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17535)

They are shown with the Handle Cap (233A) etc. above. Apparently the function of this is to pop up into a little recess under the cap but Penn has found some leakage here and is now recommending that you hand tighten the cap all the way down to get better sealing of the body. I added some grease as well to form one more barrier. This photo does not do justice as to their size. If you are going to take this off be prepared with a good "landing" area that can be easily searched and your best magnifying glass....:)

Lastly we have the Handle Assembly (15) that does have a nice seal at it's base. We'll add some marine grease to the threads:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_52_17532426.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17533)

And the handle seems to be permanently attached so no bearings or bushings to fuss with, just little oil and you are off fishing:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_51_17528724.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17529)

Ok, the way these things usually work with me is I slap this together and then spend some time thinking about how it lays out and if there is anything else I need to show or if people have questions etc so I will add as requested. So please post if you need a clarification or a photo of something so that I might help. Personally, I was very curious about this new offering like a number of anglers who surf fish and this look inside was a treat to see what over time should be a very successful addition to the Spinfisher Line with simple robust design at it's heart.

The only "Review" I would add are a few surface impressions. The Body and Rotor are nice and beefy and remind me of my old 650SS. Definitely of the variety that would give you piece of mind if you stumble on some rocks and the reel or rotor takes a knock. The penalty that you pay for this is in "startup" inertia that makes the handle feel a little stiff. Once the rotor gets moving though you can feel that the handle moves well and is only marginally stiffer than other offerings that do not have handle seals and have graphite rotors rather than metal in the Spinfisher V. After that it is all tried and true Penn Design and after a few months we should see if anything crops up. I for one am looking forward immensely to Alan Hawk's review as he really puts a reel through it's paces.

Thanks to TimS for sending his own reel to me so that I could play with it! :)

best regards


ps. A note about Shims:

The amount of ideal play of the gear train if memory serves is like 0.004" and the assembly worker has to get it right the first time but there seems to be some "art" involved. It seems that depending on load the reel has to be shimmed differently or if during assembly a reel may seem "good enough" but in use it sometimes needs to be tightened up or loosened up to prevent binding.

Some have reported bumps or binding under load with their reels and this is likely a shimming issue.

Both parameters (not too tight or too loose) have to be met to have smooth gear meshing. And over time the addition of a shim or two may be needed to prevent more rapid wear.

This goes for the Main Gear as well as the Pinion. The Main gets shimmed for side to side play (the shims might be needed on the right or the left) and the Pinion gets shimmed for fore and rear play (either in front or behind the gear teeth). 0.004" is not a lot of play so if you have binding see if this may be the issue. PENN will happily send you shims if needed or look at your reel for you if you have trouble.

As well, sometimes there are Rotor shims on top of the last bearing in the pinion assembly. These adjust the Rotor height and are used to adjust line lay. More are added if line is bulging at the top of the spool.


best regards
















Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Alto Mare on October 23, 2012, 11:09:14 PM
Very nice John, thanks for showing it. Anxiously waiting for you to remove that side plate. I might as well take my dog for a walk... good call ;).
Sal
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: basto on October 24, 2012, 03:07:38 AM
The roller on the traverse cam is a nice touch. Bearing or bushing?
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 24, 2012, 03:38:03 AM
Quote from: basto on October 24, 2012, 03:07:38 AM
The roller on the traverse cam is a nice touch. Bearing or bushing?

Bushing. Might be easily upgraded to a bearing by the enterprising :), but I have not checked the dimensions.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Cone on October 24, 2012, 04:25:14 AM
Very nice! Now I'd like to see the larger 7500 up with the back up dog. Bob
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 24, 2012, 05:13:53 AM
Quote from: Cone on October 24, 2012, 04:25:14 AM
Very nice! Now I'd like to see the larger 7500 up with the back up dog. Bob

Should be very straight forward as Penn has a long history there in the Spinfisher :).
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: 0119 on October 24, 2012, 10:19:51 PM
Thanks for the tutorial. I'm really excited about this reel. The strippers site is so full of negative argument, its nice to see someone looking at it with an objective eye.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 24, 2012, 10:32:41 PM
Quote from: 0119 on October 24, 2012, 10:19:51 PM
Thanks for the tutorial. I'm really excited about this reel. The strippers site is so full of negative argument, its nice to see someone looking at it with an objective eye.

There were some issues with with assembly where a seal was not placed properly and a cap on the body was too loose that led to some leakage. My post addresses these issue and clarifies how easy it is to remedy.

It's a brand new reel and may have other "teething" issues or bugs to sort out, but if you get the reel in your hands you cannot but be impressed with how much reel you get for your dollar and it easily will be the best surf reel in it's class for dealing with sand and salt.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: conchydong on October 24, 2012, 11:04:17 PM
Nice job Doc. Looks like Penn has another winner in  the bang for the buck category.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Alto Mare on October 25, 2012, 12:50:58 AM
John your tutorial is excellent, thank you. I do want to mention that the reel itself didn't excite me much :-\. For now i'm sticking with my ss models.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 25, 2012, 02:31:49 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 25, 2012, 12:50:58 AM
John your tutorial is excellent, thank you. I do want to mention that the reel itself didn't excite me much :-\. For now i'm sticking with my ss models.
Sal

O yea Sal, it's not earth shattering tech or anything. Given the state of things in it's $140-$180 price range however for someone looking for a new reel for kicking around jetties and beaches it's pretty hard to beat (though time will truly tell).

It's just one of those "market place reality" sort of things. The older Penn Spinfisher SS is probably best represented by the Finn Nor Offshore (I think they are...anyways, I'm sure you are familiar with it) but other reels vastly out sell them. Too heavy and too "unrefined" for the market.

It seems reality is that purely mechanically dogged tanks simply are not what most people are looking for, as indestructible as they may be. Besides, we know you're old school  ;D.

best regards, John

ps. I think the 7500 and larger have mechanical dog back up though as they'll make a lot of drag with their big under spool drag washers and need protection from going "knuckle buster".

Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Alto Mare on October 25, 2012, 03:21:59 AM
John, I couldn't have said it better myself ;). You already know that I'll be picking up one of those for myself ;). I'm hoping that on larger reels, the spool shaft goes all the way through the housing and into a bushing at the rear , as in the ss and torque.
Additional dogs on the 750 is a nice touch.
You mentioned the Finn-Nor, I recently acquired a box of spools. I got to see what manufacturers put out, the spools that I really liked were from Shimano...not easy for me to admit. The Fin-nor Ahab 20 were kind of flimsy, almost bendable by squeezing....I'm sure i could if I wanted to.
Thanks John!
Sal
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Kyle K on October 25, 2012, 07:07:05 PM
Parts diagrams are up now on Penn's website.  The 9500 and 10500 size do have the rear bushing supporting the shaft.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Alto Mare on October 25, 2012, 07:59:41 PM
Thanks Kyle, I appreciate the info, now that's more like it.

Now that I have some additional info, it appears someone didn't do their homework ;D. The 7500SS is actually lighter than the 7500SSV :-\.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 25, 2012, 08:18:55 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 25, 2012, 07:59:41 PM
Thanks Kyle, I appreciate the info, now that's more like it.

Now that I have some additional info, it appears someone didn't do their homework ;D. The 7500SS is actually lighter than the 7500SSV :-\.
Sal

I think you'll be pleased when you finally get one in your hand. I don't think the photos do justice to how rugged they feel and it all seems ideal for a reel intended to be banged around on jetties and beaches. The weight seems well justified in this regard.

I know I would have far more confidence to do that with an SSV than I would be with my Shimanos, but they get the nod for certain esoteric needs for the majority of my "serious" fishing.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Tile on October 25, 2012, 08:56:01 PM
I wish that Penn would make the whole geartrain out of marine grade bronze on the Spinfisher V series. Maybe someone with a CNC could make some aftermarket geartrain parts and make them real classics.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 26, 2012, 08:45:23 PM
Quote from: Tile on October 25, 2012, 08:56:01 PM
I wish that Penn would make the whole geartrain out of marine grade bronze on the Spinfisher V series. Maybe someone with a CNC could make some aftermarket geartrain parts and make them real classics.

There are a number of improvements that people have suggested including the gears, additional bearings, handles, seals yadda yadda....simply put, you have to accept that you are looking at a $139 reel. If you want more features, then you need another reel altogether which Penn is considering in the future. I think you would find that they have crammed an awful lot into the reel for that price.

Every Reel company needs a "complete" line up with different models in different categories and price points ie Daiwa makes everything from the Sweepfire (~$25) all the way to the Saltiga (~$1400). The Spinfisher V is intended to do just that, fit a niche that many can afford, not be all things to all people.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Alto Mare on October 27, 2012, 12:07:19 AM
I was looking at that test when the reel was spinning in a tub filled with water :-\, Penn had cameras hooked up to the reel to moniter water intrusion. I'm not shooting myself on the foot here, I love Penn's..... I just believe that's a joke.
I will still be getting one, I have to see it for myself.
I dunked my ss spinners many times, they never froze up on me :-\.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: 0119 on October 27, 2012, 01:50:02 AM
The surf fishermen seem to think it was made as their own cheap alternative to the Van Stal and Zeebass.  They wont even consider that other forms of fishing are also the target markets for this reel.  I for one after seeing the bend over backwards commitment of the Penn rep. on the other forums, am willingly to give Penn a try again.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 27, 2012, 03:07:22 AM
Quote from: 0119 on October 27, 2012, 01:50:02 AM
The surf fishermen seem to think it was made as their own cheap alternative to the Van Stal and Zeebass.  They wont even consider that other forms of fishing are also the target markets for this reel.  I for one after seeing the bend over backwards commitment of the Penn rep. on the other forums, am willingly to give Penn a try again.


It's important to sort through it all and realize what the reel is and isn't. Some have latched on to the tests (like the dunking while reeling that Sal mentions above) and think it is capable of more than it can reasonably be expected. Penn is quite clear that the reel is not a "skishing" reel or one you can use on your rod as a staff for wading. You need a Torque or VS/ZB for that. You can't crank it under water without getting into trouble as the main shaft isn't sealed and there are bearings that are only shielded (not remotely waterproof) that would be in direct contact with salt water.

It's just intended to have more water/salt resistance than any competitor at it's price point for shore fisherman dealing with sand, splashes and spray and the occasional knock. And it is hard to dispute that it would be and a great choice for that fisherman or someone fishing from a kayak.

In that sense it is more "all purpose" than other companies offerings, imo, but some other offerings might still be a better choice for fishing from a boat where the fishing is not as rough and tumble.

And it's still just a $140-180 reel and when you recognize that spinning reels, in general, are even less of a value for the buck than conventional reels due to their relative complexity there is only so much one should expect.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Tile on October 27, 2012, 04:38:02 PM
I just want the main gear, the idler gear and the crosswind block made of bronze for better durability.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 27, 2012, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: Tile on October 27, 2012, 04:38:02 PM
I just want the main gear, the idler gear and the crosswind block made of bronze for better durability.

Well, then you add a couple of ounces and it becomes the heaviest reel in it's class. For a reel primarily designed for all day casting that can be a deal breaker for many. The Finn Nor Offshore is almost identical to an old Penn SS, and is notoriously heavy, so much so that they are not recommended for much of anything other than living forever.

All of the above refinements (with Stainless Gears even) I listed are under consideration by Penn for a reel more directly competitive with the Shimano Saragosa ie up to ~$299 in the largest sizes in the future.

And then people will complain about the price  ;D.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Alto Mare on October 27, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
You're right John, we're never happy no matter what.
I was checking out that 7500ssv, I belive it's a great deal for the money. Can't wait to get my hands on one.

Tile, the 7500ssv has been claimed to handle 35# of max drag. We all know we're not going to push a spinner at that number setting, but what that tells us is that the gears are fine just as they are.
Sal
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 28, 2012, 02:08:28 AM
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 27, 2012, 08:28:56 PM
You're right John, we're never happy no matter what.
I was checking out that 7500ssv, I belive it's a great deal for the money. Can't wait to get my hands on one.

Tile, the 7500ssv has been claimed to handle 35# of max drag. We all know we're not going to push a spinner at that number setting, but what that tells us is that the gears are fine just as they are.
Sal

Yep I really do think so, if we set aside some time for the true tale to be told (ie months of use).

When I am in Carmel I am 5 minutes from the beach and often go down there to test a new lure etc and really don't like setting my Shimanos down in the sand much. So I was curious to see if this would be decent like my old SS etc. And we have Stripers here so I frequent SOL and of course, it has been followed there very closely.

I really was surprised when I got it in my hands and despite whatever initial trouble it may have (as they sort things out at the beginning) you could really tell how many features Penn was cramming into the reel.

I have handles with knobs for my Stellas that are more expensive than this entire reel...and a handle sure as heck don't have as many features as this reel does.

If you simply accept it as a ~$150 Reel and then look at what you get for that it is a great value, imho. An instant AR bearing with back up mechanical dog is a feature you only see on $600+ spinning reels for example.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Cone on October 28, 2012, 03:46:28 AM
I haven't fished one yet but I have held a couple. They feel really smooth and solid. I'm going to hold out till I can get one with the back up dog. I won't be dunking them but I like that they are at least spray resistant. My reels get a lot of spray on my boat. Time will tell how good they are but The Penn name gives me hope!  ;D  Bob
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: coonhound on October 30, 2012, 08:51:52 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on October 27, 2012, 12:07:19 AM
I was looking at that test when the reel was spinning in a tub filled with water :-\, Penn had cameras hooked up to the reel to moniter water intrusion. I'm not shooting myself on the foot here, I love Penn's..... I just believe that's a joke.
I will still be getting one, I have to see it for myself.
I dunked my ss spinners many times, they never froze up on me :-\.

As a kid who didn't know any better, I used to swim to the second sandbar with a 750SS on a 9' ugly stick.   That reel spent more time under water than above water.  It's still working like a champ today. 

Either way, this is a nice reel for the $. 
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Cone on October 31, 2012, 03:02:01 AM
I band believe the reeling underwater was smoke and mirrors. With the seals on the top and bottom of the spool, if the reel is not tilted to let the trapped air escape from under the skirt it would probably stay dry. Tilt it and let the water get to the shaft where it enters the body and water would get in. JMO  Bob
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: 0119 on November 03, 2012, 10:45:32 AM
I think people are reading more into a brief clip.  Theres nothing cranking the reel.  Its the simple movement of the crane dipping the reel into the water, the handle and its bulbous grip resisting the water and that resistance turning it.  Sure its a big show, just like Quantum did showing testing of the Cabo dipped a thousand times.  Pure Fishing is the biggest outdoors conglomerate, they know how to pitch a sale.  People just need to study the clip and surf fishermen have got to stop thinking that a reel was made solely for their purpose and not for fishing in general.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Reinaard van der Vossen on November 04, 2012, 07:59:05 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on October 27, 2012, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: Tile on October 27, 2012, 04:38:02 PM
I just want the main gear, the idler gear and the crosswind block made of bronze for better durability.

Well, then you add a couple of ounces and it becomes the heaviest reel in it's class. For a reel primarily designed for all day casting that can be a deal breaker for many. The Finn Nor Offshore is almost identical to an old Penn SS, and is notoriously heavy, so much so that they are not recommended for much of anything other than living forever.

All of the above refinements (with Stainless Gears even) I listed are under consideration by Penn for a reel more directly competitive with the Shimano Saragosa ie up to ~$299 in the largest sizes in the future.

And then people will complain about the price  ;D.

John, if they change all that it will be probably better than the saragossa due to the large underspool drag washers. It could be a real winner :)
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on November 05, 2012, 03:56:54 AM
Quote from: Reinaard van der Vossen on November 04, 2012, 07:59:05 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on October 27, 2012, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: Tile on October 27, 2012, 04:38:02 PM
I just want the main gear, the idler gear and the crosswind block made of bronze for better durability.

Well, then you add a couple of ounces and it becomes the heaviest reel in it's class. For a reel primarily designed for all day casting that can be a deal breaker for many. The Finn Nor Offshore is almost identical to an old Penn SS, and is notoriously heavy, so much so that they are not recommended for much of anything other than living forever.

All of the above refinements (with Stainless Gears even) I listed are under consideration by Penn for a reel more directly competitive with the Shimano Saragosa ie up to ~$299 in the largest sizes in the future.

And then people will complain about the price  ;D.

John, if they change all that it will be probably better than the saragossa due to the large underspool drag washers. It could be a real winner :)

Well, there certainly is a gap in the Penn Line before you get to the Torque so something is needed. The under spool drag should be very good on anything you should be targeting with a Spinfisher V to be sure. We'll have to see over time how it all holds up as it really is very new and a lot of things have to come together in a completely new design (ie gears, AR bearing etc that will take a beating with such a strong drag).

The basic concept is very sound and the reels feel really beefy in your hand. However, given the metal rotor and such it doesn't crank near as easy as say, a Stradic FJ, but should take knocks far better. Tincture of Time is required to see if each of the chosen parts is engineered just right but they are clearly a huge improvement over the most recent vintage of the series. Pure fishing being so large has probably got them being made in a top notch factory over there which should be a good thing as well.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: paal on November 08, 2012, 02:09:49 PM
Very nice, John! And thank you for showing me the line roller assembly, I think you are the first to actually show those parts. Was curious to how they solved that one, on a "splash proof" reel. Seems to me it's quite open, but then I guess they all are... :)
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on November 09, 2012, 01:09:20 AM
Quote from: paal on November 08, 2012, 02:09:49 PM
Very nice, John! And thank you for showing me the line roller assembly, I think you are the first to actually show those parts. Was curious to how they solved that one, on a "splash proof" reel. Seems to me it's quite open, but then I guess they all are... :)

Even in an ideally "sealed" reel the line roller bearing itself is only sealed and Penn is touting the reel as more "splash proof" than other reels in it's class, which it certainly is. The bearing is sealed if that was not clear from the photos.

But overall, it's not perfectly sealed by any means, people will still need a Torque if they want a reel that is truly submersible.

The Pinion Bearing etc are totally exposed to Salt Water when the reel is underwater as well, so there are a number of things Penn would have to do to make the reel truly sealed.

best regards, John
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: paal on November 09, 2012, 02:58:36 PM
Yes, playing submarine with the reel requires a special design for sure :)  I think it looks like a solid piece of work, but as you say, only time will tell (and perhaps mr Hawk).
I really wish Penn success with this reel. I like their simple and effective engineering, I can do field repairs myself if a problem occurs.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on November 09, 2012, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: paal on November 09, 2012, 02:58:36 PM
Yes, playing submarine with the reel requires a special design for sure :)  I think it looks like a solid piece of work, but as you say, only time will tell (and perhaps mr Hawk).
I really wish Penn success with this reel. I like their simple and effective engineering, I can do field repairs myself if a problem occurs.

I think over time with a few tweaks it will prove very successful. Regardless of people's prognostications that composite reels are the future this all metal reel will have it's aficionados as it should prove to be very rugged.

It casts very well, the handle pressure is not really noticeable after start up and the drag should be tremendous performer. It certainly would be my first choice for reliability in tough conditions at it's price point if I might choose others for a boat reel.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: handi2 on January 28, 2013, 12:15:34 AM
I just opened up a new unused Penn 8500 V and found that Penn had greased both sides of the bail arm mounts before assembly. That's mighty nice of them. As I worked the huge bail back and forth I has to continue to wipe the blue grease that was coming from in between the 2 sides where the bail wire is mounted.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Cone on January 28, 2013, 12:39:57 AM
My son bought a 6500 ssv. I did a pre use service on it when it came in. It was well greased inside. I did clean the blue grease fom the spool and lubed the drags with Cal's. I think its a good value for the money. It really has a good drag system. The new ssv seems to be larger than the old 6500ss, I think its closer to a 7500ss in size. Bob
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: alantani on March 10, 2013, 06:45:10 PM
stickied!  sorry it took so long!   ;D
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on March 10, 2013, 06:54:01 PM
Quote from: alantani on March 10, 2013, 06:45:10 PM
stickied!  sorry it took so long!   ;D

Thx Alan!

I put a little tutorial on "Alan Tani's Miracle Bearing Packer" in it just now.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johnD on August 20, 2013, 09:16:11 PM
John , I broke down and bought a 4500. That silicone gasket that fits under the spool on the slammer drag , is to small for it to be tucked in they way they had it..so I just took it off and flipped it upside down. we'll see how it works.

Thx for your work on this thread.


(http://i.imgur.com/GHQzjVQ.jpg)

Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: fisher480 on January 19, 2014, 02:03:09 AM
I have the smaller one  the 3500 size and suspect they are the same except for the spool and rotor. Never the less I am extremely happy with mine. I have been using mine loaded with 20lb spectra and high speed spinning for spotty mackerel. I has coped a lot of salt spray and usage and I find it more powerful that my Shimano Stradic FI 5000 under the same duties. My wife loves the reel and I hardly get to fish it.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on January 20, 2014, 01:20:00 AM
Quote from: johnD on August 20, 2013, 09:16:11 PM
John , I broke down and bought a 4500. That silicone gasket that fits under the spool on the slammer drag , is to small for it to be tucked in they way they had it..so I just took it off and flipped it upside down. we'll see how it works.

Thx for your work on this thread.


If it's the wrong size Penn will send you one for free I'm sure. It sounds like the factory screwed up. Contact them on the Stripersonline.com Penn forum and they will send the right one out to you.

best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: cmaraj1 on February 12, 2014, 02:09:34 AM
jus bought a brand new spinfisherv 3500,  and sometimes the handle feels a tiny bit tuff to turn, but most times it just fine,  any ideas on what might be causing this???? i have let other on the pier try it and they also have noticed the problem.. any advice would be great
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on February 12, 2014, 03:33:18 PM
Quote from: cmaraj1 on February 12, 2014, 02:09:34 AM
jus bought a brand new spinfisherv 3500,  and sometimes the handle feels a tiny bit tuff to turn, but most times it just fine,  any ideas on what might be causing this???? i have let other on the pier try it and they also have noticed the problem.. any advice would be great

The handle has a bit of "start up" friction to overcome the sealing between it's base and the body. If you unscrew the handle you will see the seal.

When you first move the handle it has to overcome this seal to get turning smoothly. Other reels have less of this but are exposed completely to salt intrusion at this point. If you don't need it (ie your reel doesn't get wet ever) you can remove it easily to make it more free spinning.

best


Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: cmaraj1 on March 04, 2014, 02:19:07 AM
i have a 3500v , its about three weeks old, never seen saltwater, and at times the retrieve feels tuff , not all the time though.
any advice on what this could be?
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on March 05, 2014, 10:07:55 PM
Quote from: cmaraj1 on March 04, 2014, 02:19:07 AM
i have a 3500v , its about three weeks old, never seen saltwater, and at times the retrieve feels tuff , not all the time though.
any advice on what this could be?


Glad that penn is going to take a look at it for you.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: cmaraj1 on March 13, 2014, 03:13:39 AM
sorry i missed ur reply, im new to this site, i ended up jus returning it to basspro for another 3500v , so far its perfect.........do you have any pics of what i am supposed to remove if this happens again?
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on March 14, 2014, 04:36:09 PM
Quote from: cmaraj1 on March 13, 2014, 03:13:39 AM
sorry i missed ur reply, im new to this site, i ended up jus returning it to basspro for another 3500v , so far its perfect.........do you have any pics of what i am supposed to remove if this happens again?


My suspicion would be that the Oscillation Slider (43) has either a machining or tolerance issue with some of it's production runs. It really is the only thing that can "come and go" unless something else is bent (unlikely). It's actually quite a precision part as it is responsible for the amazing line lay the Spinfishers have for this type of "locomotive" drive.

There is likely nothing for you to do. You will either get one that is perfect or one of the possibly bad batch. If your reel is good from the get go then you are in great shape.

Bear in mind, this is *only a guess* as to what could be the issue based on very little info. I have no other information about this other than what you have posted. :)


ps. It probably was a shimming issue in the drive train. Some of the pinions needed a tiny shim and then the reels performed smoothly.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on March 14, 2014, 05:10:24 PM
It came up on another site as to how to best prep the Spinfisher V for fishing in the surf. Needless to say there has been a hue and cry over Penn's overly generous interpretation of the meaning of "watertight" when they should have used "most water resistant in it's class" as a more accurate description of the reel's capabilities.

The reel does have impressive sealing of the body and drag but has one glaring weakness where water can enter the pinion assembly:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_50_175242440.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17525)

This is normally quite well protected from splashes by the rotor but if the reel gets briefly submerged this area will come in direct contact with salt water. No bueno.

This is my elbow grease (effort and marine grease :D) solution to this issue:

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_44_175072378.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17508)

Which is a poor seal. BUT if all is well greased below (ie bearings have been opened and packed with grease) after a brief submersion this grease will have stopped sand and water from penetrating the the assembly and zero sand will have made it past. All that is required is a removal of the Pinion Bearing Retainer (21), pop the pinion assembly and wipe out any soggified grease. Re-grease and you are back in business.

The body can be easily checked by popping the side cover and the drags as well get a brief inspection. Both are very well greased from the factory and no parts will have come to harm, just a removal of any water and re-application of fresh grease is all that is required *if* any made it that far.

This is why Alan and other reel tech pros preach preparation in advance. It greatly shortens the effort when you have to open the reel after a drenching in saltwater. Grease will "emulsify" with the saltwater leaving you tell tale clues as to exactly where it has gotten. Fresh grease that is unmolested tells you that you are fine. Reels with no grease in them don't tell you right away necessarily where the salt has gotten.

Bearings that have been properly greased *on the inside* and properly greased on the *outside* may have soggy grease around them, but it is very unlikely that water has gotten past the shields and into the grease packing the bearing in any worrying quantity. Once re-greased on the outside and replaced I fish again with confidence. At a yearly service if you are concerned you can pop the shields again and you will likely find that you are fine.


Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: cmaraj1 on March 21, 2014, 12:46:48 AM
 after returning the spinfisher 3500v for another one,  three weeks later it doing the same thing, theres some resistance while retrieving.
i only pier fish and i rinse every time.... i dont know what the heck is going on.....
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on March 22, 2014, 05:15:02 PM
Quote from: cmaraj1 on March 21, 2014, 12:46:48 AM
after returning the spinfisher 3500v for another one,  three weeks later it doing the same thing, theres some resistance while retrieving.
i only pier fish and i rinse every time.... i dont know what the heck is going on.....

"some resistance when retrieving"....tell me more. Is it intermittent like only at the top or bottom of the oscillation cycle? Or does it just feel stiffer than when it was new?
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: cmaraj1 on March 22, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
 it only happens sometimes?  i used it yesterday and was perfect?
do u think i should remove the rubber seal from the handle? idk?
this is my second 3500v that has been doing this, it only happen sometimes???
i believe top and bottom.  its doesnt happen all the time.
any help would be great
thanks
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on March 22, 2014, 08:21:34 PM
Quote from: cmaraj1 on March 22, 2014, 06:47:21 PM
it only happens sometimes?  i used it yesterday and was perfect?
do u think i should remove the rubber seal from the handle? idk?
this is my second 3500v that has been doing this, it only happen sometimes???
i believe top and bottom.  its doesnt happen all the time.
any help would be great
thanks

"only happens sometimes" is not likely to be the handle seal. They will stay in position generally or if they move at all would reposition to not seal (reducing friction) rather than sealing more (increasing friction).

Anyways, if it is a brand new reel there should not be any "stickiness" of any kind, intermittent or not. Something in the manufacturing process has possibly produced a part that does not have the proper tolerance. The spool shaft may be too long, the cut in the crosswind block not oriented perfectly, the casting of the idle gear not perfect etc etc etc and only when all of the parts are at some max/min does the binding occur as the action is "cyclic" in nature. Probably some thousandth of an inch is enough to possibly cause this trouble.

I saw your post in the Penn forum on Stripers Online and would suggest trouble shooting it with them as they have likely the perfect insight into this problem and can help you best.

Sorry I couldn't help you more.


regards
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: FatTuna on February 19, 2015, 01:56:33 AM
What happened to all the pictures ???.

A question for Johndtuttle: does the line retainer clip (part 47F) have a purpose? I picked up one of these reels the other day. I have to say that I really like it. Very attractive reel at a good price. Definitely nicer than the battle. However, that little clip under the spool annoys me. Can I just remove it? I haven't been able to figure out if it actually does anything.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: newport on February 20, 2015, 04:13:33 AM
Quote from: fatstriper on February 19, 2015, 01:56:33 AM
What happened to all the pictures ???.

A question for Johndtuttle: does the line retainer clip (part 47F) have a purpose? I picked up one of these reels the other day. I have to say that I really like it. Very attractive reel at a good price. Definitely nicer than the battle. However, that little clip under the spool annoys me. Can I just remove it? I haven't been able to figure out if it actually does anything.
If you take that off then you would be removing the line clip that's on the outside of the spool. You would then probably be left with a small hole on the spool where the clip bushing (47E) and the line clip (47D) would normally be.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on February 20, 2015, 04:33:30 PM
Quote from: fatstriper on February 19, 2015, 01:56:33 AM
What happened to all the pictures ???.

A question for Johndtuttle: does the line retainer clip (part 47F) have a purpose? I picked up one of these reels the other day. I have to say that I really like it. Very attractive reel at a good price. Definitely nicer than the battle. However, that little clip under the spool annoys me. Can I just remove it? I haven't been able to figure out if it actually does anything.

Well, generally it should be out of sight and out of mind :).

As above it is the retainer for the drag stack and prevents the washers from dropping out if the drag cap is removed. If the drag cap is in place and you have some amount of drag set that alone is obviously enough to keep them in place.

However, you don't want to store the reel with any drag present as this will fatigue the washers. In that case it keeps them perfectly in place ready to go anytime you need them. I wouldn't worry about it one way or the other.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: FatTuna on February 24, 2015, 12:54:40 AM
Thanks, Newport. I should have just taken it apart and I would have realized that's what that thing does. I wonder if the line clip system from the older slammer/spinfisher would work on this reel. I find that clip annoying when reassembling the spool. I wish the screws were larger as well. Other then that I really like these reels. 

Hi John. Thanks for responding to my question.

In regards to the drag stack, are you referring to part #51 or #47F?
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on February 24, 2015, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: fatstriper on February 24, 2015, 12:54:40 AM
Thanks, Newport. I should have just taken it apart and I would have realized that's what that thing does. I wonder if the line clip system from the older slammer/spinfisher would work on this reel. I find that clip annoying when reassembling the spool. I wish the screws were larger as well. Other then that I really like these reels. 

Hi John. Thanks for responding to my question.

In regards to the drag stack, are you referring to part #51 or #47F?


Sorry fatstriper I mis-read your post. Yea, the little clip system they use (#47F) is a PITA though it functions as both spring and retainer and the tiny screw is a challenge to replace. Should be one you have to deal with rarely.

Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: FatTuna on February 25, 2015, 06:19:14 AM
No worries. Thanks for fixing the pictures.

I just rebuilt the Live liner version tonight. I had to open up the spool as it got dunked. The inside of the spool was okay but the body had plenty of salt residue inside. She cleaned up nice. The live liner internals definitely work better with oil as opposed to grease.

I like the regular version better. These reels have a great drag system.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: JoePlo on May 24, 2015, 07:34:45 PM
Anyone know of good aftermarket larger handles for this reel? After using it this weekend I realized the handle on this reel is dreadful. Basically designed so that you can literally only get a thumb and index finger on it. Not meant for man hands.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on May 24, 2015, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: JoePlo on May 24, 2015, 07:34:45 PM
Anyone know of good aftermarket larger handles for this reel? After using it this weekend I realized the handle on this reel is dreadful. Basically designed so that you can literally only get a thumb and index finger on it. Not meant for man hands.


There are no aftermarket handles that I have seen yet but any number of after market knobs can be made to work.

However, they require a drilling out of the existing knob shaft to be replaced by a bolt on type that come with most knobs. Take a look at the ones from Jigging World.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: JoePlo on May 24, 2015, 09:24:40 PM
Thanks John. Did some reading on stripersonline and realized that nothing exists. Wish I could take the 6500 handle and use it.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on May 25, 2015, 12:04:50 AM
Quote from: JoePlo on May 24, 2015, 09:24:40 PM
Thanks John. Did some reading on stripersonline and realized that nothing exists. Wish I could take the 6500 handle and use it.

check with Penn on their SOL forum and see if a larger handle will fit...it very well might.


:)
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Aussiefinatic on March 10, 2016, 11:25:32 PM
Just had the courage to pull this reel down after looking at the tutorial which was great.

I kayak fish so wanted a reel that could take a splashing and falling into the water and this V4500 look good.

The reel since about the second use has had a stiff ratchety drag which I took back to the store (BCF) and they said it was alright, so I continued to fish with it.

Well I finally had enough of the stiff drag and pulled it apart, the drag washers where all gunked (Grease had gone thick from moisture?) up as was the ratchet and there was corrosion on the spool that had eaten into some of the spaces for the washers.
I also noticed that the red drag seal was sticking out of the housing rather than into and could be a bit small to seal property?
I also took apart the bail arm cover and had a hell of a time getting the spring back in position as was told.

Once again thanks for the great tutorial
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on March 10, 2016, 11:56:56 PM
Quote from: Aussiefinatic on March 10, 2016, 11:25:32 PM
Just had the courage to pull this reel down after looking at the tutorial which was great.

I kayak fish so wanted a reel that could take a splashing and falling into the water and this V4500 look good.

The reel since about the second use has had a stiff ratchety drag which I took back to the store (BCF) and they said it was alright, so I continued to fish with it.

Well I finally had enough of the stiff drag and pulled it apart, the drag washers where all gunked (Grease had gone thick from moisture?) up as was the ratchet and there was corrosion on the spool that had eaten into some of the spaces for the washers.
I also noticed that the red drag seal was sticking out of the housing rather than into and could be a bit small to seal property?
I also took apart the bail arm cover and had a hell of a time getting the spring back in position as was told.

Once again thanks for the great tutorial


Sorry you had trouble. I still prefer Cal's or other true drag grease rather than the Penn Lube and the drag stack requires regular monitoring. If the seal at the top isn't regularly lubed it can get dry and leak. Be sure as well to get a nice grease "cap" on top of the pinion assembly to protect those bits.


best
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Noviceman on August 21, 2017, 04:24:16 PM
Nice tutorial but I have the 5500 model...Is this pretty much the same reel or is there another tutorial somewhere on this forum for the 5500??
Many thanks for info..
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on August 24, 2017, 11:32:34 PM
Quote from: Noviceman on August 21, 2017, 04:24:16 PM
Nice tutorial but I have the 5500 model...Is this pretty much the same reel or is there another tutorial somewhere on this forum for the 5500??
Many thanks for info..

The other reel sizes are essentially identical.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Noviceman on August 25, 2017, 12:52:08 PM
Thanks...appreciate the response..
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: azmdted on October 17, 2017, 03:58:09 PM
This is a great thread, and something I really needed.  Thank you very much for this.  One question, I have two 4500's and both have the Drag Drive Plate Seal out like the one in the tutorial.  Is this a continuing production problem for Penn or do they think is doesn't really matter which way it goes?  It seems like they've been producing reels like this for some time now. 

Again, thanks a lot for a well written and photographed tutorial.

Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: johndtuttle on October 17, 2017, 06:26:28 PM
Quote from: azmdted on October 17, 2017, 03:58:09 PM
This is a great thread, and something I really needed.  Thank you very much for this.  One question, I have two 4500's and both have the Drag Drive Plate Seal out like the one in the tutorial.  Is this a continuing production problem for Penn or do they think is doesn't really matter which way it goes?  It seems like they've been producing reels like this for some time now. 

Again, thanks a lot for a well written and photographed tutorial.


Hard to say, not knowing when your reels were made. As the tutorial shows it actually is a pretty complicated assembly (probably designed before the new team took over Penn) that requires a certain order of assembly to make it go easily.

The Slammer III has a better design. When the Spinfisher V gets updated eventually I would expect something like it.
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: erikpowell on February 10, 2018, 12:56:34 AM
Bula all,

I just opened up a brand new SSV8500 to pre-service it for a friend.
John's tutorial is very helpful and the reel is pretty straightforward in and out.

What surprised me was that Penn already serviced it!  ;) It was good to go!
Blue grease everywhere it needed to be.
Yes there is blue grease all around the drag compartment, but not on the drag washers themselves and not likely to contaminate the drags IMO.
These HT100 drag washers were factory greased just like AT protocol. I did a second coat just to be sure, but these were by no means dry.
Another grateful find was to see grease forced out through the bearing shields when I used Alan's bearing packer for the pinion bearing. After seeing that I didn't even bother to waste grease on the other bearing.
Overall the reel looked exactly as it would had any of the AT gang done a full service. To a Tee.... an AlanT that is  ;D

The only other new out of the box spinning reel I've experienced this with is the FinNor Lethal 100.

I believe the SSV8500 is a reel you can fish the salt right out of the box for a full hard season or so.

A real bargain at $305 FJD....btw that's $149 USD off the shelf or $190 AUD for ya'll across the pond :)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: steelfish on March 01, 2019, 01:08:33 AM
I have a friend with a Spinfisher V 8500
I really not that good with spinner reels, so, I need some help, I havent gotten the reel yet but the problem my friend is having is when you move the bail to "open" it and cast the line with wont stay locked up, it returns inmediatly to "close" the spool.
in order to cast line you need to hold the bail with your finger

(http://alantani.com/gallery/17/medium_9308_05_07_17_3_51_53_17535728.jpeg)
In my experience with other spinnng reels, all the parts that have something to do with that fuature are in this pic, but which one is the main part that keeps the bail locked until you manually return it  ?
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: RUSTY OLD COLT on March 31, 2019, 09:12:53 PM
 The solid rod on the right is the bail trip arm , I have removed them on my surf reels and now close the bail arm manually . When you take the spring assembly on the L/S of the picture out make sure the cast arm inside the spring is not broken or worn where it hooks into the rotor arm linkage .
Title: Re: Penn Spinfisher V 4500: Service Tutorial
Post by: Bucktail on June 03, 2019, 08:44:06 PM
Hello,  I haven't been around the last few years because of life things, and haven't been working on any reels either. But recently I got a 4500SSV with a stripped main gear.  I figured I'd just replace the gear and I'd have a decent working reel, but I'm having a difficult time removing the bearing from the old gear.  Any suggestions?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks,
Bob