Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Conventional and Bait Casting Reel Rebuild Tutorials and Questions => Penn Senator Tutorials and Questions => Topic started by: Alto Mare on December 29, 2012, 06:14:05 PM



Title: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on December 29, 2012, 06:14:05 PM
Penn's Largest Reel Joins the Double-Dog Pack...
This one may be unique as I am sure that there aren't many who are as crazy as me that would risk destroying a brand new 14/0 plate. Yes, this is a new reel. Unfortuanely, the snow and the fire going got me in the mood to settle in with a new project. That new box was just too tempting to resist so I set my sights on the upgrade and got to work. Here are a few pictures...
Got the fire going at the crack of dawn in anticipation for the storm
(http://i.imgur.com/jSpfGI5.jpg)
Plenty of wood stacked nearby
(http://i.imgur.com/qBMlfsZ.jpg)
Parts all layed out
(http://i.imgur.com/IOKkAAY.jpg)
Here is a shot of the new reel's insides; no grease what-so-ever on the metal parts
(http://i.imgur.com/JywJO6l.jpg)
Here is a shot of the pocket that has been ground for the new dog
(http://i.imgur.com/41iERyD.jpg)
This one is a little tricky; it needs to be more precise than smaller plates that have been done in the past
(http://i.imgur.com/Ytqxx2e.jpg)
The ones on the right are the new upgrades
(http://i.imgur.com/NPDKjZn.jpg)
Stainless steel dogs (compliments of Lee)
(http://i.imgur.com/yzaE9Ce.jpg)
If you wish to do this yourself, wrap the gear with tape (as shown); it makes the job much easier and you can keep testing for fit
(http://i.imgur.com/a8qpEJD.jpg)
This stainless steel sleeve did not require any washers; there is no slack at all; nice and tight  
(http://i.imgur.com/JuEAHek.jpg)
Set the clutch assembly in (including the new dogs) and gently set the bridge in place
Set the dogs in position, from the other side, and screw the bridge plate in
(http://i.imgur.com/6Lr7JV6.jpg)
and here is the dogs engaging simultaneously
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/pescatore2/photos/006_zps3b261cd0.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/pescatore2/media/photos/006_zps3b261cd0.jpg.html)
(http://i.imgur.com/519sCJR.jpg)
Proceed with the reel re-assembly
(http://i.imgur.com/NOC4xh2.jpg)
There are still a few guys questioning the positioning of the stack; this shot should clarify
(http://i.imgur.com/IVJsD11.jpg)
Most of these larger Senators require spacers
(http://i.imgur.com/RN9EosS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JtJS1ov.jpg)
Here is the finished beast...I mean reel...
(http://i.imgur.com/c2OxbZk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DrQV6N7.jpg)
Enjoy! Sal


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: harryk3616 on December 29, 2012, 06:42:52 PM
hi  sal    great posting on the upgrade, your certainly a talented fellow,  great job !   great workmanship and excellent photography, enjoy using that reel.    and to you and your family a safe, peaceful happy new year.      your  pal    harryk


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Cone on December 29, 2012, 09:00:43 PM
Beautiful reel and job, Sal. What are you gonna test the "beast's" drag on? Maybe hitch up the varsity football team and let them run for the goal?
You never cease to amaze me! Bob


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: conchydong on December 30, 2012, 12:18:41 AM

That's friggin' awesome Sal! Great job on a beautiful classic.


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Bill B (Tarfu) on December 30, 2012, 02:29:48 AM
Beautiful work....can hardly tell the factory side and your side.....hope it snows some more over there ;D would like to see the next project...


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: George4741 on December 30, 2012, 02:55:29 AM
Sal, you are getting pretty good at grinding sideplates. ;)  Really impressive work.


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Bunnlevel Sharker on December 30, 2012, 03:23:34 AM
Awesome! Now we really need those aluminum frames.......


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: saltydog on December 30, 2012, 04:13:24 AM
Great work and a great improvement to an already great reel.


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Keta on December 30, 2012, 06:42:12 AM
Nice


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on December 30, 2012, 11:36:42 AM
Penn reintroduced this reel and there are many using it today. We needed to be one up on them here ;D
Thanks guys! Glad you enjoyed it.



Bunnlevel Sharker, I hear you about the frames and I do agree with you.
The 14/0 is not the same reel as the rest of the Senators, most come with (5) frame posts, the 14/0 and 16/0 come with ( 8 ) posts.
Being narrowed, I believe this won't be a issue on a 14/0.
 
I've been reading some of your posts, you mentioned tha a 14/0 will not be able to bring in a monster, I will disagree with you on that.
As I mentioned before, if I ever get lucky with a monster on the end of my line, this is the reel I would want to be holding.
You need low gear to bring in monsters, this one has a ratio of 1.6:1 and a 6" diameter spool, that retrieves lots of line per crank.
Good luck finding a reel with those features.
Take care.
Sal


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Irish Jigger on December 30, 2012, 12:02:51 PM
Nice work Sal. I particularly like the Dremelling,you must have a very steady hand!
Those SS dogs look the part too, very professional ;)

PS love your wood burning stove.


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on December 30, 2012, 01:28:30 PM
I'm glad you like the stove Tom, it's outside, in the back of my house . I started with a stone patio, then I built an overhang with sliders.  Things didn't go too well with my wife, when i installed the wood burning stove, she is still waiting for her kitchen.
I would have done it earlier, but I wouldn't be able to service my reels there ;).
You know, I can get that room up to 90 - degree when it's 20 on the opposite side of that glass.
Take care.
sal


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Fish-aholic on December 30, 2012, 03:00:15 PM
You never fail to impress, Sal. Top work yet again!


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Bunnlevel Sharker on December 31, 2012, 03:22:58 AM
I didnt mean it couldnt bring in a monster, i said it couldnt bring in EVERY monster. It has some impressive catches to it and im lookin to pic one up ;)


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: raumati01 on December 31, 2012, 04:54:37 AM
Nice work Sal, did you get the handle off that guy on ebay? I got some ss posts , rod clamp and bolts off him and his work was excellent. i bought 2 of these old beasts for a song a couple of months back and want to get one up and running again.

happy new year in advance to you all.


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on December 31, 2012, 01:30:42 PM
I didnt mean it couldnt bring in a monster, i said it couldnt bring in EVERY monster. It has some impressive catches to it and im lookin to pic one up ;)
No, just one at a time ;)


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on December 31, 2012, 01:33:59 PM
Nice work Sal, did you get the handle off that guy on ebay? I got some ss posts , rod clamp and bolts off him and his work was excellent. i bought 2 of these old beasts for a song a couple of months back and want to get one up and running again.

happy new year in advance to you all.
Thanks Raumati, yes the handle is from the same seller:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/POWER-HANDLE-FIT-PENN-REEL-10-0-12-0-14-0-AND-118-16-0-SILVER-/121034152227?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2e329923
Sal


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: raumati01 on December 31, 2012, 08:57:41 PM
There's also a stainless steel main gear on ebay , at the moment I need rod braces and a new drag stack to get one on mine up and running.I've transferred all the best chrome etc to the other one for display.


Title: Re: Upgrade Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Dominick on January 02, 2013, 01:11:49 AM
Sal:  That back room sure looks cozy.  It would be a nice place to sit and watch the snow come down with a bottle of Zin for company.  Some antipasti and maybe some lasagna. ;)  Dominick


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: basto on March 02, 2013, 08:29:29 PM
I have been concerned about the strength of the post frames on Penns, but to see PENN reintroduce a reel of this size "today" with an all post frame gives me more confidence in my 113h (40 years old) and my 309m(brand new) and I much prefer the original classic look of posts.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: john2244 on March 03, 2013, 01:46:43 AM
Sal,

Just saw this post for the first time.  Great work on the 14/0.

John


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on March 03, 2013, 02:30:06 AM
John, your kind words are always appreciated, thank you!
Yes, things can be hard to find at times.
Sal


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Bryan Young on April 08, 2013, 10:29:09 PM
Very Nice Sal.  I didn't even see this...considering I was in the Hospital around when it was posted.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on April 08, 2013, 10:35:08 PM
Thanks Bryan, means a lot coming from you ;)
What's going on bro, is everything good now?


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Bryan Young on April 08, 2013, 11:44:41 PM
Health, I believe that no news is good news from my drs. :)

Work is slow and trying to find work to do. Reels, I'm swamped. Too bad I cannot take them to work to work on. Family is great. Taking a few days off since kids are on spring break.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: redsetta on April 08, 2013, 11:54:18 PM
Great work Sal - missed this one the first time around.
Your workmanship is unparalleled.
Quote
That back room sure looks cozy.  It would be a nice place to sit and watch the snow come down with a bottle of Zin for company.  Some antipasti and maybe some lasagna.  ;)
Couldn't have put it better meself Dominick - especially with a season's worth of wood cut and piled outside.
Cracker post Sal, thanks for sharing.
Cheers, Justin


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on April 09, 2013, 04:38:59 AM
Thanks Justin!
You must be swamped at work, I hope you get caught up soon, we miss you around here.
Sal


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on May 01, 2013, 04:28:26 AM
Sal,
I wish I was one of your buddies that you could call me by name. That is a totally awesome upgrade.
You are the Man.
By the way, My Name is Daron.
You really helped me out last year with learning to rebuild these old pieces of fishing history.
I am headed out next week to catch some sharks. Wish me luck!


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on May 02, 2013, 04:30:41 AM
Thanks Daron!
Don't forget the camera and be safe. Lots of luck to you.
Sal


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on June 18, 2013, 11:04:43 PM
Sal,
It that sleeve from electra mate? Alan says he doesn't have these. His stops at the 9/0. I would be willing to spring for one of those sleeves. They are 80 bucks on their site. I am assuming the sleeve is the same for the 16/0. I am gearing up to catch some sharks next year and the 14 can Get it done for sure. I frequent Sharks on the Sand.(Not near as much as here) These guys are ate up with it.(Like Me!) My Arsenal will be the Tiburon Extra Wide, A 9/0 with ss sleeve,12 and 14/0. Avets seem the reel to have for this sort of thing, but I'm sticking with old reliable. Makes it more Nostalgic and challenging. I am sure Lee can hook me up with some ss dogs to Double dog it!
Take Care my Friend!


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on June 19, 2013, 12:26:51 AM
Daron, I don't remember where mine came from, I got them a few years ago off someone. I only have two and they're installed in my reels. I'm also interested in doing what you're doing and been putting together some gear for myself for a while now.
I've asked Alan to get us some over a year ago,  he said he would have to order quite a few. I don't think there is much demand for those :-\.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Keta on June 19, 2013, 01:39:00 AM
I am sure Lee can hook me up with some ss dogs to Double dog it!

Yup, I still have a few and can make small runs.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on June 19, 2013, 08:36:22 AM
I'll take a pair of those Bad Boys Lee. When you get my check for the 114's, send those to me and we will do it again.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: RockyMtnKurt on August 20, 2013, 05:13:17 PM
HI Sal. I really appreciate the picture documentation of your excellent build and the SS dogs look really sweet. I was wondering if it is necessary for the dogs to simultaneously engage to provide the optimal mechanical advantage on the anti-reverse gearing?  Thanks for your time and help.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Bunnlevel Sharker on August 20, 2013, 05:36:19 PM
With double dogs, you have to options. simutaneous and alternating. Alternating takes out handle slop, and simultaneous adds more strength


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: RockyMtnKurt on August 20, 2013, 06:17:22 PM
Got it. It would seem to me simultaneous dogs also spreads the force on the gear to the two points, which would lower the force at each contact point. Now that I think about it, the shaft may benefit by having more balanced pressure from both sides with simultaneous dogs which might help on bushing or bearing wear as loads increase. Thanks for the quick response.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on September 13, 2013, 05:19:38 AM
Simultaneous is the way to go on these Monsters Kurt. After reading these old posts, I sure have come a long way, mainly from Sal. He does some astonishing things to these reels. There is a lot to be learned here.
Now I own this Reel! Thanks Sal!


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 26, 2015, 01:23:55 AM
I hated to do this, but it was for the greater good! ;)
I need the electramate sleeve out of this reel from Sal for testing to a higher power!
Your Dating System help up well old Buddy. 8)
Two things stand out here that are not like my double dogged 14. The Second Dog and the bottom of the bridge are knife edged.
Just admiring the masters work. His second dog cut is a little shorter than mine as is the spring, maybe that's why I fought mine so much.



Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Alto Mare on January 26, 2015, 04:46:46 AM
I can't take the credit for that one, that was Dominick's idea. He does come up with some good once in a while ;).


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: crackerman on January 26, 2015, 01:02:58 PM
I just looked it up, these stainless sleeves are available from electramate. Are they a direct drop in for the original penn part? Prior to this had never even known they existed...


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 26, 2015, 05:25:29 PM
Yes,
They are plug and play if you want to pay $100 each! :o


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: crackerman on January 26, 2015, 10:43:01 PM
Direct from electramate they are 80, plus tax and shipping. Anyone here have an electramate account that can catch us big senator guys a break?


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 26, 2015, 11:04:43 PM
Just wait a little while. They might be for sale on here soon. ;)


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Tightlines667 on January 26, 2015, 11:35:44 PM
Just wait a little while. They might be for sale on here soon. ;)

Still waiting...........

BTW Daron, I love your reel service date marking system..better then a sharpy or sticker in my opinion :)


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on January 28, 2015, 06:01:19 AM
That was Sal's writing John. I bought this reel from him. Dominick gave him the idea.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Floridasharkhunter on October 02, 2015, 06:44:31 PM
Anyway I could send you my 14/0 side plate and pay you to do this for me?


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on October 02, 2015, 08:14:08 PM
I sent you a PM. Its not that hard to do. You just need a dremel and a steady hand.
BTW, Welcome! ;D
I just did a 16/0 and a 14/0 the same way.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=15476.0


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: wsenti on March 13, 2017, 01:33:08 AM
This photo was from a Penn 14/0 for sale down here in Florida on Craigslist.

Are their any true stainless steel bridges available? This seller upgraded with Adam's drag insert kit amongst other stainless steel parts.

I mean I could hit the machine shop, just curious.

image attached.


Title: Re: Upgrading a Penn 117 (14/0)
Post by: Shark Hunter on March 13, 2017, 01:47:32 AM
That Bridge is chrome plated brass.
There are no stainless bridge options available to my knowledge.
It was a different approach to help the gears aligned.
I use them whenever I have them available.