Hey all, new to forums, but not to browsing. New to the sport and just recently picked up a few reels I'd like to service and or rebuild my self. The first one is a Shimano beast master 30/50. I've heard and read that the pressure plates are no good on these, but I have a few pictures here, and would appreciate anyone who has more knowledge to chime in. Let me know if the pictures are working,this is my first time trying to post a picture.
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s642/Cd561/image_zpsf2d00fd2.jpg)
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s642/Cd561/image_zps9f7dcbfb.jpg)
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s642/Cd561/image_zps71a7bd06.jpg)
(http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s642/Cd561/image_zpsfbef0ef6.jpg)
G'day and welcome CD,
These are great reels - I have the 30/50 and 50/80 and have fixed this problem on both.
Though 30-odd years old now, they reflect designs seen more commonly today.
Unfortunately, the silicon pressure washer 'melts' over time - the remnants of which you can see in residue in the last two photos.
As the silicon's melted, the pressure plate's started contacting the spool, which accounts for the wear around the spool shaft on both sides.
I found acetone to be the best at breaking down the silicon and getting it out of the bearings etc.
Replacement silicon pressure rings are difficult to find and tricky to refit, but Glen Pamaran in San Diego can do the full job, as well as tweaking up the reel to a high standard more generally.
Glen can be contacted on 619-370-8670 or at reelconnection@cox.net.
Let us know how you get on.
Good luck, Justin
Thanks for all the info redsetta, do you know much about these? I've actually been fishing this reel like this for a little bit now. It seems the only drag i get is from the pressure plate pressing on that center hub. Do you or anyone else know if I could just custom cut some carbon fiber drag washers and stack them up in there to clear that center hub?
Thanks again.
G'day CD,
I wouldn't fish it as it is now as the damage will only worsen.
The silicon clutch plate and drag washer perform separate functions.
The drag washer is against the spool (ie beneath the 'Pressure Plate'') and not visible in these pics.
This can be replaced with CF (as I've done on both my 30/50 and 50/80).
The plate (ie 'Clutch Plate') actuates against the silicon ring.
Once enough pressure is applied to effectively 'lock' the two, the actual drag plate starts working against the drag washer.
It may sound a bit confusing, but the schematic will help: http://schematics.planetseafishing.com/downloads/shimano/multiplier/triton-series/triton-beastmaster-30-50(1989).pdf (http://schematics.planetseafishing.com/downloads/shimano/multiplier/triton-series/triton-beastmaster-30-50(1989).pdf)
To clarify, the pressure plate we've been referring to is #125A 'Clutch Plate'.
It's currently pressing against #124A 'Clutch Pad Plate', without the aid of the silicon ring (ie the clutch pad).
The actual 'Drag Plate' (#122A) and drag washer (#119A) are beneath the 'Pressure Plate' (#123A).
All this means is that the silicon ring needs to be replaced (either with an original or upgraded material as per Glen) before the reel will work as intended...
Hope this is of some assistance.
Good luck, Justin
Yeah, that pretty much cleared it up. Ill have to give Glen a ring. I really appreciate the quick responses and break down. Thanks again redsetta.
this guy worked for shimano for about 10 years. he does a reconditioned one. http://scumlinefishingtackle.com/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=361
I am looking for a part for the BeastMaster 50/80W
- TT0124B – Clutch Pad Plate
any ideas where i can get one?
The melted silicone disk is a real pain to completely remove. Plan on spending a lot of meticulous time getting all of it out. Not difficult, just tedious.
I replaced the disk on my 50-80 with butyl rubber and it works well. Ready to replace that with carbon fiber even though it's still good. The carbon fiber should give more drag than the rubber (and last longer, even though I don't think I'll every wear out the rubber).
I've replaced the disks on larger Beastmaster reels (the 130 size) with the carbon fiber and they work very well too.
I have ran into the same problem with our Triton BeastMaster 30/50 Two Speed (pics attached).
I understand that I can get with Glen at Scumline Fishing Tackle to have new longer life silicon plate installed or new assembly ordered but I also wanted to look into the possibility of doing something myself.
Can anyone direct me to where I can possible buy the Silicone Ring, or a suitable replacement and install it myself?
I would not change it to silicon as that's what caused the problem in the first place. Change to CF. Get a sheet large enough and thick enough (about 1/8") and cut out the disk yourself. Looks similar to the Penn International drag disks. Donut shaped.
Great info! New to the forums and I'm mainly responding so I can get updates on the process as it goes.
Last year I bought a Calstar Trolling Rod and this reel was on there (for $100 both). I plan on opening her up and doing the CF Drags myself after measuring and what not. Let's see what happens!
I have a disassembled Beastmaster 20/30 with the silicone goo meltdown typical of these reels. I have a few questions, in part because I have no idea what this looked like when it was new and in good shape. It also appears that the 1989 parts diagram that we all seem to end up studying has an error or may be misleading.
1) Was this silicone material ever a unique part number or is it simply part of 123A - the pressure plate? I ask because there is also an "O" ring type gasket that surrounds 123A and that is what 124A looks like in the diagram even though 124A is labeled clutch plate pad. IOW, are we trying to replace 124A (clutch plate pad) or are we trying to repair 123A (pressure plate)?
2) Am I correct to assume that the silicone material was glued to the flat and smooth portion of the face of 123A (pressure plate). IOW, it moves with the pressure plate and covers the entire flat area as I see in the attached picture?
3) Some have suggested using a high temp (400F - 500F) silicone material and to attach it with Loctite 330/activator. It looks like that is what was done in the picture. Is this a good solution? What thickness material?
4) Others have suggested using carbon fiber washer material. Do you cover the entire flat area of the pressure plate? What thickness do you use? Do you attach it and if so, with what?
5) When this reel was new it had a lumpy light drag (pumped a little) which I always assumed was the drag washer or drag washer plate. I see that these components appear quite flat and in good shape. I can only assume then that this problem was in the silicone clutch area and not the drag washer area. Which clutch material would give smoother and more reliable results?
6) Lastly I am also replacing the drag washer with CF from Smooth Drag. Do you guys like dry or lightly greased with Cals tan?
Thanks,
George
Read Tightlines666 excellent post, description and how-to here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8880.0
And for what its worth, Jack Erskine & Son make replacements. You can order one for 75 bucks AUD.
.
Quote from: Robert Janssen on July 05, 2016, 05:52:12 PM
Read Tightlines666 excellent post, description and how-to here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8880.0
And for what its worth, Jack Erskine & Son make replacements. You can order one for 75 bucks AUD.
.
Thank you. Do you advocate using the silicone material as outlined in that post or do you suggest CF material as suggested i this post?
Thanks,
George
Quote from: ggidzinski on July 05, 2016, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Robert Janssen on July 05, 2016, 05:52:12 PM
Read Tightlines666 excellent post, description and how-to here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8880.0
And for what its worth, Jack Erskine & Son make replacements. You can order one for 75 bucks AUD.
.
Thank you. Do you advocate using the silicone material as outlined in that post or do you suggest CF material as suggested i this post?
Thanks,
George
It sounds like you are still a bit confused by my other thread. I have serviced a number of these reels. If you decide to tackle these by yourself, order the Butler rubber sheet from McMaster Carr, and cuthe, and glue a custom donate washer out of the rubber to replace the silicone. Replace the cotton drag material with a carbon fiber drags from Dawn at Smooth drag, and I recommend replacing the Belleville washers (order from Shimano, same as Tiagra washers). This is kinda an advanced reel service to start out with. If you are not comfortable doing the work yourself, send it to one of the aforementioned guys.
Good luck!
John
Quote from: Tightlines666 on July 05, 2016, 08:11:04 PM
Quote from: ggidzinski on July 05, 2016, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: Robert Janssen on July 05, 2016, 05:52:12 PM
Read Tightlines666 excellent post, description and how-to here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8880.0
And for what its worth, Jack Erskine & Son make replacements. You can order one for 75 bucks AUD.
.
Thank you. Do you advocate using the silicone material as outlined in that post or do you suggest CF material as suggested i this post?
Thanks,
George
It sounds like you are still a bit confused by my other thread. I have serviced a number of these reels. If you decide to tackle these by yourself, order the Butler rubber sheet from McMaster Carr, and cuthe, and glue a custom donate washer out of the rubber to replace the silicone. Replace the cotton drag material with a carbon fiber drags from Dawn at Smooth drag, and I recommend replacing the Belleville washers (order from Shimano, same as Tiagra washers). This is kinda an advanced reel service to start out with. If you are not comfortable doing the work yourself, send it to one of the aforementioned guys.
Good luck!
John
Thanks John. With regards to using a different material for the clutch, I was reacting to reply #9 in this thread:
Re: Triton beastmaster 30/50
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2013, 01:18:08 PM »
I would not change it to silicon as that's what caused the problem in the first place. Change to CF. Get a sheet large enough and thick enough (about 1/8") and cut out the disk yourself. Looks similar to the Penn International drag disks. Donut shaped.
Thanks,
George
Regarding what part number does what, see Redsettas explanation from earlier in the thread:
Quote from: redsetta on March 21, 2013, 10:55:45 PM
...The drag washer is against the spool (ie beneath the 'Pressure Plate'') and not visible in these pics.
This can be replaced with CF (as I've done on both my 30/50 and 50/80).
The plate (ie 'Clutch Plate') actuates against the silicon ring.
Once enough pressure is applied to effectively 'lock' the two, the actual drag plate starts working against the drag washer.
It may sound a bit confusing, but the schematic will help: http://schematics.planetseafishing.com/downloads/shimano/multiplier/triton-series/triton-beastmaster-30-50(1989).pdf (http://schematics.planetseafishing.com/downloads/shimano/multiplier/triton-series/triton-beastmaster-30-50(1989).pdf)
To clarify, the pressure plate we've been referring to is #125A 'Clutch Plate'.
It's currently pressing against #124A 'Clutch Pad Plate', without the aid of the silicon ring (ie the clutch pad).
The actual 'Drag Plate' (#122A) and drag washer (#119A) are beneath the 'Pressure Plate' (#123A).
All this means is that the silicon ring needs to be replaced (either with an original or upgraded material as per Glen) before the reel will work as intended...
Hope this is of some assistance.
Good luck, Justin
And about this part,
QuoteThank you. Do you advocate using the silicone material as outlined in that post or do you suggest CF material as suggested i this post?
Thanks, George
do what Tightlines said, more or less-- replace it with a silicone donut. Might as well make the effort to return the reel to its original state. I mean, it seems to me you could replace the donut with anything almost, but what the hell, right? You needn't use McMaster-Carr neccesarily; maybe there is a local rubber supplier near you. Replacing the rubber with carbon fiber though, I cannot see as being beneficial. Perhaps that was a result of confusion among all the part numbers, discs, donuts and plates.
Further, I just noticed that the other Australian place sells replacement donuts for forty bucks, and i imagine Glen Pamaran would likely have them too.
.
Silicone ring it is then for the clutch.
As far as the CF drag washer, do you like dry or lightly greased with tan Cal's?
Thanks,
George
Hi !
I've just opened up a Beastmaster 30/50 with the standard gel problem. I have in mind to try fix it myself. When it comes to get a new custom silconering, i ordered one from Australia on Ebay. But it hasn't showed up in 1,5 month. So I guess its lost somewhere on its way with the post. So next step is to cut one out. I think I can get a piece of industrial quality siliconesheet and cut it out with a gasketcutter at work. But what is the thickness supposed to be ? I've read 1,59mm and 1/8"=3,18mm. The one I ordered on Ebay also said 3mm. Sounds thick.....
Thanks in advance !
Hi Maluke,( Albert ), were did you get CF 1/8 thick, or did you stick two, 1/16 together, cheers Don.
Quote from: Potomac Hooker on November 10, 2013, 04:25:15 PM
I have ran into the same problem with our Triton BeastMaster 30/50 Two Speed (pics attached).
I understand that I can get with Glen at Scumline Fishing Tackle to have new longer life silicon plate installed or new assembly ordered but I also wanted to look into the possibility of doing something myself.
Glen is not at Scumline Fishing Tackle. Scumline is in New South Wales, Australia and Glen is in southern CA.
Think it's called dragonplate. comes in different thicknesses, width, and surfaces.
Quote from: Donnyboat on July 07, 2019, 11:58:54 PM
Hi Maluke,( Albert ), were did you get CF 1/8 thick, or did you stick two, 1/16 together, cheers Don.
No opinions about the thickness of a custom washer ?
should be same as the original, or about 1/16" thick (I think)
Quote from: Drisse on July 09, 2019, 04:51:55 AM
No opinions about the thickness of a custom washer ?
Makule, ok. I'm getting a bit confused of the thickness since I read different opinions. You earlier wrote "Get a sheet large enough and thick enough (about 1/8") and cut out the disk yourself." and now "should be same as the original, or about 1/16" thick (I think)". Then I saw Tightlines666 used 1/16"(1.59mm). The one I ordered on Ebay said 3mm thickness and I wrote to another Ebay seller who said his was about 2,75mm.
So, 1,59mm, 2,75mm and 3mm in thickness. Everyone seem to get it to work, but it feels a bit odd that the thickness vary that much ?
The thickness doesn't vary. My memory does.
Quote from: Drisse on July 09, 2019, 08:08:37 PM
Makule, ok. I'm getting a bit confused of the thickness since I read different opinions. You earlier wrote "Get a sheet large enough and thick enough (about 1/8") and cut out the disk yourself." and now "should be same as the original, or about 1/16" thick (I think)". Then I saw Tightlines666 used 1/16"(1.59mm). The one I ordered on Ebay said 3mm thickness and I wrote to another Ebay seller who said his was about 2,75mm.
So, 1,59mm, 2,75mm and 3mm in thickness. Everyone seem to get it to work, but it feels a bit odd that the thickness vary that much ?