Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Wow!  Thanks Joe, never seen a spinning reel pop.  Bill

  Here is proof that mono line can jack apart a spool.    You may need to catch bigger fighting fish to experience this phenomenon .  When mono relaxes on the spool after hard drag , it subject to pop.      One of the reasons why I build aluminium spools .  Just saying it does happen ! 

Gentlemen, I strongly urge everyone to keep this discussion civil and refrain from personal attacks.  One thing that makes this forum so good is the HEALTHY dialog between accomplished fishermen and reel mechanics. 

One thing to keep in mind is the varied circumstances each of us fish in.  Whether lake, pond, stream, river, surf, offshore, etc.  Each brings its own pitfalls.

After reading through this thread I see four different fishing types.

What works for the stream fisherman does not necessarily cross over to off shore tuna, and visaversa.

Personally I have seen a Penn 85 with a plastic spool, Penn Jigmaster with plastic spool, and a second generation J.A.Coxe with a three piece metal spool, all suffer breakage from mono contraction.  All three are conventional (multiplier) reels.

However I have never seen a spinning reel suffer damage from mono.

The end result here, is you may disagree with someone else's opinion and they may disagree with yours.  So be it, but keep it civil.

Bill

Maybe I was too harsh, but I still find the idea that monofilament, the #1 most popular fishing line in the world for longer than any other type of fishing line ever, is somehow going to damage a spool that wasn't already trash is ridiculous. I am sorry I said Tommy was from California, it looks like I saw Brewcrafters location by accident. It is kind of odd now that I see Tommy is from Nebraska, me from South Dakota, we are practically neighbors. I'm quite confident nobody around here is running giant conventional reels with plastic spools and 40 pound mono backing. The biggest fish we have is blue catfish, and I've never seen a catfish guy running a setup like that.

So while maybe there may be a small special circumstances where mono may not be the idea backing, I am fully confident it is the best choice for the other 98% of the time, and pretty much 100% of the time around here in South Dakota and Nebraska. Since this is a Penn spinfisher thread, I really, really doubt the 710 plastic spool is going to be harmed by anything, there's nothing thin or frail about it. Plastic spools are pretty rare on the other spinfishers from what I've seen. All of the Z series have aluminum spools.

I too have got away with running braid straight on an aluminum spool, but I think it depends on what line you are using. It really comes down to how waxy it is. Something like Berkley x9 I don't think would hold onto a spool well at all. Since we don't have corrosion issues, I don't see any reason to not use electrical tape, or flex tape, or whatever other rubbery type stuff you have. Since I always choose reels a little bigger than needed, and only like to put 150 yards or meters of line on, I almost exclusively use mono backing on my reels.

Yes we have it pretty easy for gear care in fresh water it seems. There's a lot of things I would never have thought about. I have fished in Florida and Texas in salt water, but it doesn't seem any harm comes from a single trip. You might be surprised how hard musky guys can be on reels. A lot of the most popular lures are over 10 ounces. There's some over a full pound. That's not what I call easy on the spool. Before super braid, a lot of those guys ran dacron braid, not because it saved the spool, but because it has the same advantages as super braid such as low stretch. Muskies are not particularly line shy or deep water fish, so it worked really well. Nowadays most guys are running super heavy braids like 80 pound, more just to handle the lures. The fish fight itself is nothing by comparison.

If you put enough nylon backing on an old plastic spool, and pack it tight enough, you run the risk of busting the spool.  The risk varies by spool model, the thickness of the line and how much tension that you load it under. Us saltwater guys that packed 40 lb mono onto plastic conventional reel spools and pulled harder on bigger fish broke them regularly.  I agree with the OP's point about spools not blowing up  left and right despite the near universal use of nylon line.  I suspect that this failure is less common for the average trout, bass or musky fisherman that don't put much load on the spool, and spinning reel spool shapes are generally vulnerable to this type of failure than  conventional spools.  But specific models might be more of a risk, especially as they age.

As to moisture:  Nylon is capable of absorbing a significant amount of moisture.  If the moisture goes in, the line gets bigger. But if the line is already packed tight, it won't absorb as much moisture. Sort of like a sponge that is squeezed absorbing less water. And wet nylon becomes more malleable and elastic. I don't see moisture as a major contributor to the risk, but this is sort of a moot point.  The risk is nylon expansion, regardless of the exact mechanism.


Now let's get back to using nylon backing.  Assuming that you want to minimize the risk:

The farther from the arbor, the more leverage on the spool walls, so if you are using a modest amount of nylon, not much risk to a vulnerable spool.  So the nylon question comes into play if you are using it for a significant amount of filler.

As to the arbor and tape/wrap/short section of nylon:

Many of us here believe that tape or a short section of nylon to prevent braid slipping is not really necessary.  You just need a couple extra wraps before the arbor knot and a slightly longer tag.  There is debate on this exact topic on this site, and I would invite you to read up on it a bit and decide for yourself.

Applying tape can unbalance a smaller conventional spool, and in saltwater, tape, and to a lesser extent stretch wrap,  can keep saltwater from fully evaporating, and wet and salty  (an electrolyte solution) corrodes metals much more quickly than dry and salty.  But this is primarily a concern with metal spools in saltwater.

Quote from: slugmeister on April 26, 2024, 10:33:38 PMDo you have to rinse off your reels when you get home?

You freshwater guys have it too easy!   Fighting corrosion is a losing battle, but it is the primary concern in saltwater reel maintanence.  I usually soak myreels in a bucket of warm fresh water one a week, but most folk here prefer a gentle wash and more frequent breakdown/clean/reasembly.  Many recommend unspooling braid and trying to desalt it at the end of the season. spools are coated with grease or wax as well.


-J

Let's play nice here.

I also disagree (respectfully) with Tommy, but  not as strongly.  I do know that he knows more about vintage spinning reels (including fishing them, not just collecting) than pretty much the rest of us combined.  If he has concerns about nylon busting plastic spools it is worth listening to, even if the exact mechanism for failure might be debatable.

Knowing Tommy a little. I would guess that he probably doesn't mind you challenging him (respectfully) about not using mono, but he is probably not happy with the implication that he is a Californian

I'll put my comments on the subject itself in a separate post.

-J

Quote from: foakes on April 19, 2024, 06:21:01 PMPlease let me know when the 265 frame arrives, Jeff —-

According to the latest USPS tracking, it is still enroute!

Tracking shows it left our P.O. on 4/11/24.

Nice work on the 265 oscillation gear post.

Best, Fred

Hi Fred! The 265 frame came Wednesday all is well now. Thanks again!

Jeff

Quote from: nelz on April 25, 2024, 10:12:40 PMLove my 712, caught my first big fish on one.    It's long been retired though; it's just too heavy for its size, auto-only bail, roller as designed binds, no skirted spool, line spooling is not so good. But it is a tank!

Yes its a little heavy, but it's not that horrible. The difference between my 712z and my Penn Fierce 4000 is 2.5 ounces. The auto only bail is probably my least favorite thing about these, but what I've found is there are good ways around this, turning the handle isn't the only option. The Line rollers depend on model, but yes, the 712's is not great. It's just a metal roller on a metal shaft. Maybe when they were new and the plating was fresh they worked ok. Mine do not work well at all. Some other models used plastic bushings which actually work better than you would think.

I'll have to disagree on the skirted spool thing though, although it is personal preference. There's not a huge difference for me, I can use rotor style or skirted spool style reels, and both are fine with me. If anything I have a slight preference for the rotor cup because it gives a much better surface to palm my hand during a cast. A rotor cup and manual bail would be ideal for me.

The spooling can be helped, check my other thread on Penn spinfisher tuning. It's really easy to fix.

Quote from: Brewcrafter on April 26, 2024, 06:21:58 PM

Quote from: slugmeister on April 26, 2024, 06:44:45 AM@Brewcrafter, you will have to fill me in as I only fish freshwater. Does the electrical tape turn gummy in salt water? If it makes any difference, I'm sure all I've used is 3M  33+, since that's pretty much the only tape I carry besides colored tape. It might have been super 88, but I never buy that at home. I've taken line off reels I'm sure were on there 10 years and the tape was still good enough I could have left it on there if I wanted. I can understand why the flex wrap works though, it does the same thing without the strong adhesive. Why use grease though?

For freshwater, your concerns are NOT the same level as the salty guys!  The concern being that electrical tape can trap residue that over time leads to corrosion on aluminum or metal spools (I did a quick search but could not find the post from Alan I was looking for yet).  As far as the very mild layer of grease...
In a saltwater environment gives a layer of protection to the underlying metal....
If you do it on the "deep" areas of the reel, this is line that very infrequently gets dumped off the spool - up near the edges line abrasion of putting line off/on likely wipes off any protection (and may also have a downside of leaving residue on your line down toward the "business end" that could be detrimental to fish bites).  Over the years folks have used car wax, Chap Stick, you name it to help coat and protect spools.  Again, in freshwater your concerns are minimal!  Loving your in depth study on these Penn Spinners...thanks for the info- john

I didn't even think about the corrosion aspect of it. No, that's not something we worry about in fresh water. Doesn't that flex wrap soak up water? Or maybe it dries quick too? Do you have to rinse off your reels when you get home?

Quote from: quang tran on April 26, 2024, 06:28:27 PM

Quote from: Midway Tommy on April 26, 2024, 06:17:49 PMWhoever told you that gave you some bad advice. 

So I should use a arbor or a spacer ,No body sell them anymore .I have lots of used braid line should I use it

You could use your used braid if you want. Or you can use monofilament. Around here Berkley Big Game is generally the cheapest, and it's still quality line. 10# is usually what I use for backing, but it's not super important. Just don't use something huge like 40# as that doesn't lay right unless you have a really big reel.