Abu Garcia Revo Toro NaCl 60HS Service Tutorial

[Alto Mare]

John, you and Keta simply saying that the plastic yoke is good, doesn't necessarily mean it is good. As far as I am concerned, it is a ridiculous design. If you believe that a pinion having cut teeth on top and bottom, rotating on a plastic yoke is a good idea, good for you. I prefer to always have a metal yoke on my reels.

I said I have only one, but I've worked on a few myself...you see one, you've seen them all.

I believe all yokes should be metal, not plastic. This is just my opinion.

Sal

[johndtuttle]

John, you and Keta simply saying that the plastic yoke is good, doesn't necessarily mean it is good. As far as I am concerned, it is a ridiculous design. If you believe that a pinion having cut teeth on top and bottom, rotating on a plastic yoke is a good idea, good for you. I prefer to always have a metal yoke on my reels.

I said I have only one, but I've worked on a few myself...you see one, you've seen them all.

I believe all yokes should be metal, not plastic. This is just my opinion.

Sal

No worries, Sal. I am sure if we get a chance to share a glass of wine some time it will all become more clear precisely what our perspective is...

In Surgery we have a saying (probably borrowed) that is "Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good." That is, a Surgeon that is obsessively meticulous can never finish the operation in time and the patient dies on the table.

In this context it means that if every reel has to be perfection then very, very few people get to go fishing, because they cannot afford perfection or reel companies spend too much time chasing their tails and never bring a product to market. Heck, the perfect reel would use many titanium parts and space age carbon composites....And would be built like a Mars Rover...

Where do we stop when the goal is perfection? Well, everyone has their point that is good enough to catch a fish.

I have seen too many Mexican kids fishing with beer can or soda bottle spinners to worry about how we build our toys...I am just happy to see anyone fishing and am happy to see a product that can broaden the appeal of our sport because the cost of getting involved is not prohibitive.

In that sense I am more about promoting fishing, getting people out there and understanding and caring for their tools so they don't have fishing trips ruined by reel failures...than I am about perfection.

[0119]

If you know of a better saltwater low profile baitcaster I am all ears.

No, thats just it, I don't think any low profile is good at all in salt. Sure folks do it, sure like you said a soda bottle will do it. But the low profile in salt is just a marketing ploy. They've made today's angler in his visor, shiny nylon shirt and color coordinated truck, trailer and boat think its the end all using a bass reel to winch fish in on cord they call superline.....

[Alto Mare]

John, again, we are talking about a plastic yoke. i have lots of respect for you and Keta, I simply don't agree on this one.
You've mentioned that you were a plumber, i could give you hundreds of examples on why something that costs way more becomes way cheaper on the long run.
I started building homes in the early 70's, around that time most town homes still had brick veneer. Those still look the same today and
if they have a nice front door, you will have a hard time breaking in.
The newer homes are already falling apart, I've had to fix a few already. All you need on those to get in is a utility knife. Cut the " Plastic" siding and you're in  
All is good buddy.

Sal
Sorry for pulling away from the nice tutorial...

[johndtuttle]

Ah, and there we get to it, 0119....

No, my friend, the low profile reel is not yet perfected to be sure, but it does things that no other conventional reels their size and weight can do.

1. Lighter weight because you can reduce the spool size for just the right amount.

2. Greater cranking power for lipped plugs or bigger fish.

3. Cast braid well and repeatedly for a greater range of lure weights.

4. Greater drag for their size (because you have the larger main gear to put a drag stack in).

These are not small issues. They are the central issues if we are to move reel designs forward.

As lines become smaller yet stronger this geometry will only continue to get better. This isn't some fad, but the best way to take advantage of Braided lines to have the smallest most capable reels.

There certainly are plenty of guys still using Newell 220s for the task, never met one guy that prefers his older style conventional for casting to Calico Bass all day. Now, like with this reel they are growing into schoolie Tuna and Yellowtail capable.


best

[johndtuttle]

John, again, we are talking about a plastic yoke. i have lots of respect for you and Keta, I simply don't agree on this one.
You've mentioned that you were a plumber, i could give you hundreds of examples on why something that costs way more becomes way cheaper on the long run.
I started building homes in the early 70's, around that time most town homes still had brick veneer. Those still look the same today and
if they have a nice front door, you will have a hard time breaking in.
The newer homes are already falling apart, I've had to fix a few already. All you need on those to get in is a utility knife. Cut the " Plastic" siding and you're in  
All is good buddy.

Sal
Sorry for pulling away from the nice tutorial...

No worries, Sal. Its all about understanding these designs...what they do and don't do well...

During Medical School I volunteered with Habitat for Humanity an aid group that rebuilds or builds new houses in blighted neighborhoods for families that have no home of their own...

So, if you had a limited budget would you build 2 homes for 2 families, or would you build one for one family and leave the other living out of a shelter where they sleep on open cots with 30 other people?

Just sayin'....you can't let Perfection be the Enemy of the Good.

(we can set aside whether plastic in this case may actually be better in the Revo NaCL because these thumb button clutches use a different way of disengaging the pinion as compared to other designs. They don't slide an eccentric plate the same way a Penn does...they use rotation of their Clutch Cam so the yoke is not as slim as a yoke on a Senator etc. If you look at images of the yoke in the tutorial you will see they are quite thick and might be prohibitively heavy if metal.)

[johndtuttle]

John, again, we are talking about a plastic yoke. i have lots of respect for you and Keta, I simply don't agree on this one.
You've mentioned that you were a plumber, i could give you hundreds of examples on why something that costs way more becomes way cheaper on the long run.
I started building homes in the early 70's, around that time most town homes still had brick veneer. Those still look the same today and
if they have a nice front door, you will have a hard time breaking in.
The newer homes are already falling apart, I've had to fix a few already. All you need on those to get in is a utility knife. Cut the " Plastic" siding and you're in 
All is good buddy.

Sal
Sorry for pulling away from the nice tutorial...

No worries, Sal. Its all about understanding these designs...what they do and don't do well...

During Medical School I volunteered with Habitat for Humanity an aid group that rebuilds or builds new houses in blighted neighborhoods for families that have no home of their own...

So, if you had a limited budget would you build 2 homes for 2 families, or would you build one for one family and leave the other living out of a shelter where they sleep on open cots with 30 other people?

Just sayin'....you can't let Perfection be the Enemy of the Good.

(we can set aside whether plastic in this case may actually be better in the Revo NaCL because these thumb button clutches use a different way of disengaging the pinion as compared to other designs. They don't slide an eccentric plate the same way a Penn does...they use rotation of their Clutch Cam so the yoke is not as slim as a yoke on a Senator etc. If you look at images of the yoke in the tutorial you will see they are quite thick and might be prohibitively heavy if metal.)

"You can't let perfection be the enemy of the good" That saying can apply very well in surgery MAYBE, but I don't think it applies in all cases. One example; Build a bridge that is fair and you and the family are driving over it, suddenly it collapses because someone felt that it wasn't necessary to go the extra mile to reinforce something because time wouldn't allow for a better job or they took the lowest bid and cut corners. I don't like that idea. Sorry for butting in here. But I could say a lot more and probably get myself in trouble. From here on my pledge is (To talk about Reels only)!!   

Well, in this case the better analogy might be a bridge built to a totally acceptable building code, rated to handle certain loads....versus one over-engineered to last a 1000 years like a Roman Aqueduct?

We don't build to last 1000+ years like the Romans or Egyptians did...somehow our society has prioritized many public works rather than simply one great pyramid...with building codes fitting some algorithm of safety and durability that makes economic sense... .

Don't get me wrong! This is not a celebration of junk, it is an expectation that Abu, Daiwa, Shimano, et al know their business better than we probably do and that these yokes do work. They are a different design than a Penn Yoke (much thicker) and that is integral to their function.

[jonnou]

[/quote]No worries, Sal. I am sure if we get a chance to share a glass of wine some time it will all become more clear precisely what our perspective is...[/quote]
You better make it a glass each 

[MarkT]

My son has a couple of NaCl50's. One had poor drag and was jerky out of the box. I greased the drags and it was fine.  Both have had issues of not going back in gear when you turn the handle. I've never had this with any other thumb release, well, maybe a Lexa.  They all have their quirks.

[tugger]

I fished this reel hard last year. In fact, I fished 2 of them hard. I like the reel but it is just not a reliable piece of equipment. Over the year, I have had several issues with both reels.

Kick level failure is real. At some point the reel will not engage. This is in part due to the power handle not being a balanced design, which can cause the reel to engage. I've learned to compensate for this by having the handle in forward position before a hard cast, which is a bit of hassle.

The 22 lb drag claim is dubious. I don't think this reel can put out a usable drag at 12 lb, let alone 22 lb.

Buttoning down on the star to get high drag will result in 2 things. The main gear shaft will strip. Or the thread on the star will strip. Either way, one of them will fail.

I really wish this reel is more reliable as I love its performance out of the box. But as it stands, it is not a reel that will stand under pressure, or at least worthy of a reel claimed to be putting out 22 lb of drag. I don't know if Lexa or Komodo will be any better.

[johndtuttle]

I fished this reel hard last year. In fact, I fished 2 of them hard. I like the reel but it is just not a reliable piece of equipment. Over the year, I have had several issues with both reels.

Kick level failure is real. At some point the reel will not engage. This is in part due to the power handle not being a balanced design, which can cause the reel to engage. I've learned to compensate for this by having the handle in forward position before a hard cast, which is a bit of hassle.

The 22 lb drag claim is dubious. I don't think this reel can put out a usable drag at 12 lb, let alone 22 lb.

Buttoning down on the star to get high drag will result in 2 things. The main gear shaft will strip. Or the thread on the star will strip. Either way, one of them will fail.

I really wish this reel is more reliable as I love its performance out of the box. But as it stands, it is not a reel that will stand under pressure, or at least worthy of a reel claimed to be putting out 22 lb of drag. I don't know if Lexa or Komodo will be any better.

I have been down this road with any number of guys and all kinds of different reels.

1. Drag Numbers claimed by all manufacturers are not utterly bunk, but nearly so. What this means is that how you test the drag (full or nearly empty spool) and how usable that number is (how stiff the reel is and at what point do you loose smooth drag) virtually always has little to do with guys fishing the reel.

The problem is that they all are trapped by each other by their only human response to uneducated consumers with unrealistic expectations fed by their competition.

2. However, it doesn't matter. These reels weigh only 11oz and hold about 250 yards of 50lb braid. You can only fish 50lb with about 12lbs of drag and reliably have your connections hold up. As well, 300+ yards of 30# so they are perfectly capable of handling the line you commonly would put on there.

This is also realistic give the type and capability of a rod you would pair it with. I promise you, you cannot fish 20lbs of drag with an 8' Bass stick and have things turn out well.

3. If you tighten down the star so much you are stripping it or the stud maybe the reel was trying to tell you something before you got out the vise grips to hammer down the drag?  . Anything more than hand pressure is probably too much for any reel of any kind made (that is how they are designed). If you cannot turn the handle with your own strength or the star or lever drag arm then the reel is trying to tell you that you are going to break it.

4. The stickiness of the kick lever is something that is common to the design that can be dealt with by simple occasional cleaning and lube. It is something that Abu is addressing in the next gen Revo Toro Beast what has a more easily activated thumb clutch. But I have corresponded with guys or worked on Curados, Lexas and Komodos too having trouble with their thumb button/reel going in or out of gear. It always comes down to maintenance. These reels require more, not less than traditional designs.

Back in the day people bought Penn International 30 or 50 size reels to fish 20lbs of drag (4-5lb reels). These small baitcasters weigh 11oz. There is a disconnect between reality and expectations there that the manufacturers are only too happy to feed or be left behind by their competition. This is a criticism of both parties to the deal  .

1. The Komodo 364 with all stainless internals is likely the toughest (relatively). It is limited by small capacity.

2. The Lexa 400 will make the most drag, simply because it has the biggest drag washers behind the biggest main gear. Known maintenance worries covered in my service tutorial (that can be handled with regular maintenance).

3. The Revo is the most refined feeling in the hand and on the crank, imo. Needs drag grease.

4. The Curado has it's fans as well. Seems to have more corrosion problems than others if not maintained.


If I were going offshore for light tackle tuna then my first choice would be a Lexa 400 for capacity and drag to be on the safe side. If I were going for paddy YT, Calicos, Barries and Bonita then I would take the Abu Garcia for a more refined experience. Komodo or Curado are proven capable as well given they are only 11oz reels  .

I would fish any of them for schoolie tuna if I wanted the challenge throwing poppers. Fact of the matter though, spinners are more capable for popping. They cast better and make far more smooth drag.

If I needed a real deal 20lbs of drag from a conventional reel I would be fishing a Penn Torque 25N LD 2-speed or Okuma Makaira 8II. There is no free lunch. 


Final Thought:

I am amazed at what these reels are capable of for 11oz. Let that sink in: 11oz. It is ultra light tackle. I would focus on what they can do, not what they can't.

If you beat one up faster than you would like then you might want a reel about double that size, weight and cost (Tranx, Revo Toro Beast or Lexa HD).

[Lunker Larry]

I fished this reel hard last year. In fact, I fished 2 of them hard. I like the reel but it is just not a reliable piece of equipment. Over the year, I have had several issues with both reels.
I
Kick level failure is real. At some point the reel will not engage. This is in part due to the power handle not being a balanced design, which can cause the reel to engage. I've learned to compensate for this by having the handle in forward position before a hard cast, which is a bit of hassle.

The 22 lb drag claim is dubious. I don't think this reel can put out a usable drag at 12 lb, let alone 22 lb.

Buttoning down on the star to get high drag will result in 2 things. The main gear shaft will strip. Or the thread on the star will strip. Either way, one of them will fail.

I really wish this reel is more reliable as I love its performance out of the box. But as it stands, it is not a reel that will stand under pressure, or at least worthy of a reel claimed to be putting out 22 lb of drag. I don't know if Lexa or Komodo will be any better.

Kick lever issue has been addressed.  The spring has an upgrade (190819 vice 1290695) and ABU hardened the end of the kick lever ( don't have the number on hand )

[johndtuttle]

I posted a nice fish in the Lexa 400 tutorial so it seems fair to give the Revo it's due also  

[Alto Mare]

Nice fish! John, is that you?

[johndtuttle]

Nice fish! John, is that you?

Yes! If I was 20 years younger, was better looking and actually got to go fishing! 

So, no....not me