charter special tr 1000/2000

Started by alantani, December 07, 2008, 04:25:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

boon and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

alantani

first, the schematic from shimano....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TR_2000LD-ARB_v1_m56577569830570239.pdf

here's a stock charter special.  these reels had seen several years of service and were in pretty bad shape.  the handle turned easily on one but was rough on the other.  freespool time on one was only a few seconds, but that is par for most levelwind reels. the freespool was zero on the other.  both reels had pretty jumpy drags, even at a light setting.  not a good thing for salmon.  



the first thing to come off is the lever assembly, including the pre-program dial (key #115), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (keys #116 and 10), the drag control lever (key #117) and the lever thrust ring (key #84).



remove the lever quadrant (key #121) and screws (keys #19, 20 and 21).



back out the five side plate screws (key #122) and remove the right side plate as a unit.



remove the spool assembly as a unit.



note the wear marks on the right side of the spool.  



it is a common problem for these graphite frames to "swell."  i use a dremel and the cutting bit #117 to cut away at the inside of the graphite frame, just enough so that the spool doesn't rub.



add a little grease to the metal clicker assembly (keys #140 and 209).



remove the spool cap and drag pressure plate as a unit.  note the reverse threads.



here's a photo of the original canvas drag washer next to a penn ht-100 drag washer (part #6-5600).  use a dremel to hand cut the inside hole to match the stock canvas shimano washer.  note that you can now buy a carbon fiber drag washer from smoothdrag.com



back out the four click gear screws (key #135), remove the click gear (key # 134) and the main shaft assembly.





the shields of the three spool bearings can be removed and you can see the dried grease inside.



after cleaning out the grease with carb cleaner and compressed air, the bearings can be lubed with corrosion x or reel x.



switching out thin pre-load washers (bellevilles) for thicker ones will ramp up the drag pressure more quickly and give you a higher drag at strike before you lose freespool.  the thin preload washer B's (key #44) on the right will be switched out for the thicker preload washers from the shimano tld 20/30 two speed reels (part # tt-0040A).  the orientation of these belleville pressure washers remains "()".



interestingly, the thickness of the stack of thin bellevilles....



is about the same as the thick bellevilles....



here is the reassembled washer stack with bearing. reinstall the spool shaft assembly, the click gear, the two right side spool bearings (keys #213) and spring (key #37).



those of you that prefer a dry drag can either re-install a new canvas washer (part #tld-0129) or use a the penn ht-100 without grease.  my preference remains to grease this washer using shimano or cal's drag grease, applying a thick coat to both sides of the drag washer.



install the gooped up washer.



wipe off all the excess drag grease until drag washer basically looks dry.



now, just a side bar comment.  note the rubber gasket of the spool cap....



and the metal lip on the drag pressure plate assembly.



when the drag lever is at strike and the reel is engaged, this metal lip mates up with the rubber gasket and seals up the drag chamber to keep water out.  the take home message is this.  rinsed off your shimano lever drag reels in the "strike" position.  all other lever drag reels should be rinsed in "free."

here's an example in the second reel that was probably rinsed with the lever in the "free" position.  note the rust in the right spool bearings.  



install the pressure plate assembly.



install the spool cap and pinion gear.



install cross pin B (key #50) and place the spool assembly back into the frame.  the spool should slide easily back into the frame.  

IF THE SPOOL DOES NOT SLIDE EASILY BACK INTO THE FRAME, ROTATE THE SPOOL SHAFT 180 DEGREES AND TRY AGAIN.  

this works.  i have no frickin' idea why!

now, this reel felt like a coffee grinder when you turned the handle.  this rusted right main side plate bearing (key #212) is the reason.  to get the to bearing, you have to remove the handle.  




remove the handle lock screw (key #1), the handle lock (key #2), the handle nut (key #3), the gear shaft shield (key #5), the gear shaft thrust washer (key #6) and the main gear (key #8).  the dog (key #26) and the brake collar (key #190) will fall out as well.



pry out the right side plate bearing.





the old bearing was too badly rusted, so i pulled out a new one....



and packed it with heavy grease.



reinstall the new bearing and dog.



install the main gear, the rotate the dog clockwise until the gear "drops" into place.



install the handle assembly.



install the brake collar.



reinstall the right side plate.



install the quadrant.



install the lever and pre-set dial.  make sure the lever is in the free position and drop the lever shaft body into the lever so that they mate up.  



there are several handle options available.  be creative!





the spools of both reels will now spin easily.  both of these reels have only 5 seconds of freespool, but that is because of levelwind mechanism.  without the levelwind assembly, the spools probably would spin for 30 seconds.  both now have a max drag at strike of 15 pounds before losing freespool.  and both have a smooth drag from 1 pound up to 15 pounds.   the total time required for service, including time to clean out the bearings, was an hour.  
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

alantani

Quote

To: Alan Tani
Subject: TR2000 Charter special problem

Hey mate, just though I'd drop you a line and see if you have any ideas
what might be causing a problem with my charter Special.  Problem is
that when you wind the drag up the spool moves across toward the right
of the reel causing the clicker to not mesh on the side plate.

I've stripped the reel down and rebuilt it a couple of times as per your
rebuild diagram on Pierfishing.com website.  I just cant seem to tell
whats causing it?  Wondered if you had heard of such a problem before?

The problem seemed to start after I let a mate use the reel on my boat
one day. I'm pretty sure that he wound the preset drag up too much then
pushed the leaver forward. I striped it down to check and a couple of
bearings were rough so i figured either old or overloaded by my mate,
but other than that i cant seem to see any damage internally or any
missing parts.  Hope you have some ideas mate.



i've not come across this problem personally.  of course, check the washers and bellevilles on the left side of the spool to make sure that things the washers are in the stock configuration.  could the click gear be loose? 

here are the schematics http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/techdocs/en/TR2000LD_v1_m56577569830498941.pdf

it is important to space the spool properly on the left side.  you can also hotrod this thing pretty easily.  to do this, you need the bearing (pretty obvious), a pair of heavy belleville washers (part #TT-0040A) from the two speed tld 20/30 two speed.  you also need a small thrust washer (part #tld-0043) from the charter special inbetween the bellevilles and the bearing.  that way the bellevilles do not bind up against the bearing under the higher pressures that you wil be submitting the reel to.  this will increase the drag range to 15 pounds.  you can also shim the right spool bearing (key #23) by placing the remaining two thrust washers underneath the right spool bearing.  these two thrust washers are key#43 and #72.   this actually works pretty well!  please let me know how this works out.  thanks!  alan





send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

alantani

well, here it is!  the topless frame for the shimano charter special by tom hrynuik.  the workmanship is beautiful.  i have frames for both the TR 1000 and TR 2000 models.  the great thing is that the charter special will deliver 15 pounds of drag with great freespool and no side load on the right main side plate bearing.  yup, it's an avet killer.  better even than the old shimano tld 5's and 10's.  load up the narrow TR 1000 with 50# spectra and a 30# topshot.  the wide spool TR 2000 can be loaded with 65# spectra and a 40# topshot.  add an oversized kolekar grip and you've got a pair of great live bait rigs.

with this run, there was one small problem.......







well, kudo's if you noticed it in the photos above.  yeah, the front crossbar is too high.  the top edge of the front cross bar is dead even with the top of the arbor of the spool.  on a winding machine, that is not a problem.  when the reel is on a rod, however, there is a slight downward angle taken by the line.  when you get to the bottom of the spool, the line hits the crossbar.  there are no sharp edges to slice through the line, but it is still not right.  of course, if you're hung on a big fish that takes you down that far, you've got bigger problems than the cross bar. 



we clamped this reel onto a calstar 270 and it took several wraps before there was enough height to clear the bar. 





well, not too bad for a first effort.  i bought all 25 of the TR1000's and 25 of the TR2000's and i'm going sell them at half price.  that's $55 for the narrow TR1000 frame and $58 for the wider TR2000. 

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

alantani

reprinted from http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfishing-forum/240195-topless-frame-charter-special.html with permission from captain archer

Quote



Captain Fred Archer
Senior Member


Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 219   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alan,

That Charter Special is, well, a special reel that didn't get the attention and reception that it should have. However, the fact that it is still around (?) bespeaks the fact that more than a few good fishermen came to realize what a great reel it was/is(?) As you know, basically, they are TLD's with an exceptional levelwind that did what none before them did - they stood up to saltwater gamefish, including big ones, that no other levelwind system before them could ever remotely approach.

The first year that we introduced the reel we started with two weeks of fishing them our of Oregon Inlet with some of our customers and reps. We made daily stops at some of the towers for big AJ's. Those donkeys couldn't hurt them. Then we used them down in Key West for a couple of weeks of daily fishing with other customers and reps for dolphin, blackfin, and other offshore species, and the most brutal test of them all, tarpon fishing in the harbor. It was a time when there were big numbers of big tarpon there and they really put the boots to the reels and got their fannies handed to them. We flat wore out most of our customers! Many jack crevalle, some cobia, big permit and grande mutton snappers were also caught. None of the reels so much as hiccuped during those daily beatings.

Then we took them down to Texas for another couple of weeks of beatings, this time by kingfish, cobia, and sharks, along with some tuna and dolphins. The reels were not service, other than standard lubrication, between trips.

Then it was on to two weeks of albacore fishing out of San Diego during the heart of a good albacore run. Once again, we and our west coast customers and reps fished them hard every day. Even moreso than the other venues, this was an area where levelwind conventional reels were considered for sissies and pieces of junk that the levelwinds blew up on when they met their first pelagic fish. It was really interesting to see our customers out there realize that the levelwinds didn't blow up on these and on top of that, they had the best drags that they had ever fished with.

In the end, when those reels were finally opened and inspected, their innards looked nearly brand new. Great reels, they were!

Of course, the reason why the line touches the front crossbar when there is only a little on the spool is because of the abscence of the levelwind, which the line rode on, so it didn't touch the crossbar itself.

I'm glad to see these terrific reels still being appreciated by sharp fishermen and reel guru's such as you, Alan.

Best in Big Game website and online store, www.fredarchersworldoffishing.com
__________________
Author of Pro's Guide to Catching Dorado on SpreaderBars, Spreaderbar Bible, Wahoo Bible, Bigeye Tuna Troller's Bible, Best Marlin Lure & more. 



send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

whalebreath

#4
Looks like one of my Charter Special TR1000s is an older model.

As per the pic it lacks the studs for #190 Brake Collars altogether, also no brake collar ring.Note water incursion although none made it onto the old canvas drag washer-both now replaced with Smoooth Drag units as per the tutorial.





In addition the (older?) small bearings look to be completely sealed there is no way to access the race inside so I guess I'll just drench them in Corrosion X-the large bearing is the same as the one in the tutorial although the Shimano tech who serviced them last time installed the bearing wrong.

No discernible difference in performance between this and the TR1000  I just did-of course they are strictly Salmon downrigger trolling reels and the finely tuned nuances desired for live baiting aren't needed nor are higher drag settings.

Thanks to Alan for the tutorial it's really helped me in more ways than two fingers can type and the service from Dawn @ Smooth Drag was exceptional.Shimano also sent out two brake collars for the other reel in record time/free of charge. 8)


CaptKev

I have to say kudos to Alan for this particular tutorial. I've never loved my charter specials 1000's more! I own 6 of these reels and was prepared to replace them. These are used for the Albie's that frequent the OR/WA waters during the summer months. Before the modifications, I frequently had to push the lever drag beyond strike to slow down the 25-30# plus sized Albacore and casting was nearly impossible except for the most seasoned fisherman.

So I tore each reel down following Alan's detailed advice. I used the thicker belleville washers, but ran into difficulty putting the spools together and maintaining freespool. After trying to install the click gear assembly, the washer configuration was too thick for the new/thicker bellevilles. After playing with it for a few days (no lie), I ended up removing the preload A washer (#72) and replacing it with one of the thinner preload B washers (#43) and this solved the problem. I may have to replace the B washers regularly, but it isn't a big deal.

Using grease in all the screw holes, I ran into an interesting problem on one reel. I couldn't find any Yamalube, but the Evinrude/Johnson is a pretty blue color too. It might be a tad thicker than the Yamaha brand too? When I screwed down a click gear screw, I heard a loud POP! I backed out the screw thinking it had snapped inside the spool. I started to screw it down again and heard a slightly quieter POP sound. Then I saw what happened. The grease coupled with the fine thread mini screw created a seal within the threads. When I tightened, it literally bubbled the aluminium on the inside of the spool. That little metal  bubble sliced the poop out of my fingertip too, WOW...but all was not lost. The bubble was only about as big as a ball point pen tip. Using a utility knife I sliced away the material, dropped some black paint on it and it's good to go! I decided not to use a power screwdriver on the remaining screws. Oops.

So now I can get at least 15# of drag before losing freespool at the strike setting. On 4 of the 6 reels, I can get almost 4 passes (36' of line out) of the line guide before losing freespool. The other 2 reels are barely 3 passes, but it gives me some casting ability that I never had before! I also added 4/0 Kolekar handles too. No more cramped fingers after a few dozen albies! The thicker bellevilles and greased carbon fiber drag really suped up the stock drag system with a more versatile range. These half dozen reels still have a place on my boat for many years to come.

My reels did not have shields on any of the bearings. I used Corrosion block (all I had) on the spool bearings and grease on the main bearing. I can't wait to get these out on the water again! These reels  had 3 seasons of use before teardown. Even though the bearing grease was a bit dry, none of the bearings had to be replaced. Not bad for 100% saltwater use in my opinion. 

Thanks AGAIN Alan,
Kevin     

alantani

glad everything worked out!  just so you know, i'm down to a dozen frames ........... ;D
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

CaptKev

I'm still thinking about the frames...the thought of multiple bird's nest from multiple clients at the same time is holding me back.  :'(

LochSloy

Hi Alan,

Thank you for an excellent thread, I am in the process of refurbishing a TR2000 which was given to me by a friend, I have completely dismantled and cleaned it, but I am having difficulty in removing the main gear, it revolves freely but it is firmly stuck on the end plate.

Your help would be appreciated.

Yours aye

LochSloy
Loch Sloy - This Ill Defend

alantani

remove the handle and tap on the top of the drive shaft.  that should free it.  the drive shaft and main gear are a single unit.  alan
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

LochSloy

Hi Alan,

Thank you for your assistance, I managed to remove the main gear as you suggested, unfortunately I have another problem.

After carefully cleaning, greasing and oiling the reel and assembling it, I now have another problem. On occasions the lever drag remains stuck in the free position, to free it, I have to manually turn the spool, this then frees the lever drag. Other than this the reel runs completely free, the handle turns like a dream as does the spool, about 5 seconds on free spool.

Your thoughts on this matter would be appreciated.

Yours aye

Drew 
Loch Sloy - This Ill Defend

alantani

so the lever is in the free position, then it is difficult to push to strike?  that might happen at very heavy drag settings, say 15 pounds (7 kg) or more.  turning the handle should not affect that.  curious.  when you say lever drag, you are talking about the lever itself, right?
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

LochSloy

Hi Alan,

The drag is set light, the lever moves across to the full position most of the time then occasionally it locks solid and wont move until i manually turn the spool, it then moves freely. The handle moves freely all of the time.

Yours aye

Drew

Loch Sloy - This Ill Defend

alantani

got it!  first guess is the lever shaft body (key #116) or any part that it touches.  check the inside of it and look for damage.  alan
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

bchen

Hey Alan,

Can a Charter Special handle a Kolekar grip? (Or anything better than the stock grip.)

Thanks,

Bernard