alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial spool sleeve for metaloids?
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
February 26, 2021, 01:15:48 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: spool sleeve for metaloids?  (Read 24936 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
DaveTM75
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2020, 04:40:08 PM »

Hi and welcome Smiley
I tried angular contact bearings in a similar sized Andros reel. It definitely reduced binding when maxing out the drag to 24/25lbs.
However if the drag is set to 10lb strike and 20lb full it has the same effect of negating the binding - AND you don't have to spend mega bucks on ac bearings.
I also added a spool sleeve to my Andros - it makes life far easier when installing the bellevilles and c clip.


Thanks Tiddlerbasher

The reel is my jigging reel. Itís normally paired to a 20lb max load rod and is used for >10lb fish, so my drag is always Ďwithin limitsí of the normal ratings for the Metaloid. As I said, my key aim is to get more control in the lower drag zone of the reel.

I guess I could save some money and go with a decent set of deep groove, full complement bearings, but just make sure I go with the sleeve, right?
Logged
Tiddlerbasher
Photo Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3152



« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2020, 05:19:37 PM »

If the spool bearings are EZO (as in the Andros) just oil/grease them - I wouldn't bother changing them - they are good quality .
Definitely a spool sleeve - a bit fiddly to get exactly the correct length but worth it. Trying to get the belleviles in with the c clip is made fast easier - without the sleeve it's a nightmare.
Logged
DaveTM75
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2020, 06:20:19 PM »

If the spool bearings are EZO (as in the Andros) just oil/grease them - I wouldn't bother changing them - they are good quality .
Definitely a spool sleeve - a bit fiddly to get exactly the correct length but worth it. Trying to get the belleviles in with the c clip is made fast easier - without the sleeve it's a nightmare.


I have to say, I donít know, Iíve not checked out the bearings. They donít seem to grind at all, but they could always be a little bit smoother.
I was thinking - if itís open, upgrade!

Also, in regards to the sleeve, do I simply omit the 2 central E-clips/C-clips and rely on the sleeve to brace the left side bearing and bellevues against the left most e-clip, and against the first spool bearing on the right side?

Sorry - I just want to be 100% correct before I embark upon this task!
Is there any need to shim either side of the sleeve, or does it have to just rest on the inner frame?
Logged
redsetta
Moderator
Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2879


Auckland, New Zealand


« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2020, 09:14:31 PM »

Welcome board Dave,
Just re: the alternative bearing options, this was the approach boon and I used on ours:
Mine got pushed pretty hard over the weekend, running 20lb+ all day on numerous kings to about 30lb.
Never missed a beat.
I stripped it down yesterday, just for an inspection, and everything's perfect.
Re: the bellevilles, I find they 'nest' differently when mixed around.
There seems to be one arrangement that allows the e-clip to just pop on, while all other configurations make it much more challenging...
Hope that's of some use.
Good luck and keep us up on progress.
All the best, Justin
Logged

Fortitudine vincimus - By endurance we conquer
DaveTM75
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2020, 03:27:32 PM »

Welcome board Dave,
Just re: the alternative bearing options, this was the approach boon and I used on ours:
Mine got pushed pretty hard over the weekend, running 20lb+ all day on numerous kings to about 30lb.
Never missed a beat.
I stripped it down yesterday, just for an inspection, and everything's perfect.
Re: the bellevilles, I find they 'nest' differently when mixed around.
There seems to be one arrangement that allows the e-clip to just pop on, while all other configurations make it much more challenging...
Hope that's of some use.
Good luck and keep us up on progress.
All the best, Justin


Hi there


Thank you for your warm sentiments, and thank you for your assistance.
I had seen this post before but could not find it again.
I sort of followed your lead. I did not go for the angular contact bearings. Instead, I went for a set of SS/ceramic hybrid bearings. They are deep groove ABEC-7, but they do have a lot of axial play (P58?), however this is supposed to be good for angular load instances.

I got them from ABEC357. The left bearing is sealed, as are the spool bearings. The pinion bearing however is open. Thatís a little unfortunate, meaning I need to keep on top of it with cleaning and lube (can run dry, but for the sakes of that axial play, I will pack it with a little oil or Calís.

I got a titanium tube of 10mm(OD)/7mm(ID) off of eBay. I have a decent pipe cutter so will have a go at getting as accurate as possible in measuring, marking, cutting and then filing.

Iím really looking forward to the project!



This is my kayak jigging reel. Itís a little work horse that handles <5kg fish most days, but here in Dubai, that jig could be grabbed by a king or a Cobia - or even a reef shark. In these instances, you want your reel to cope!
Logged
DaveTM75
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2020, 05:04:22 PM »

Hey Guys

Merry Christmas:)


So... It is done.

It took me longer than I expected. Chiefly because, a little like working on your damy saloon Ford in 1977, not all parts are as expected!
My dog tooth assembly was like the Andros, not at all like all the Metaloid walkthroughís Iíve seen. Perhaps, because I have the M5Nii, the arrangement is different - I donít know. All I can say is - Iím glad for this forum, as it was here where I found out how to reassemble the dog tooth!


So - I stripped it, cleaned it all, gave all internal surfaces a sheen of Calís and went about swapping the bearings.

The units I got were all 440/ceramic hybrids, all but the left hand spool bearing are open.
I oiled them with specific lube, then seated the left spool bearing, the 2 small spool bearing and the bearing in the drag plate. The main drag bearing is also open. I oiled it, and because of where it is, I also packed it a little with some Calís.
I know I didnít need to do it for corrosionís sake - and I know itís not going to help freespool at all.... But it just felt right to do it!

On reassembling the shaft, I measured the gap between the two e-clip grooves to be 10.1mm.
I used a pipe cutter to cut me a piece of titanium rod I got from eBay... ID=7mm, OD=10mm.
I cut a piece off at 10.8mm and I reassembled.  It was too big.
I cut it back to 10.6mm, but again, too big.
I ended up with a sleeve of 10.2mm.
This gives me a great range of drag.  Can quite literally spin the reel in freespool, then clip up once to an abrupt stop. Each click of increased drag makes a definitive difference - itís amazing!
The drag disc was dry before service, which I have now fixed.
I used to get about 12lbs on strike - Max. Now, I reckon I get at least 18/19. On this setting, I can push it through to full and get LOTS of drag - much more run before. It is also not binding at this point.
Sure, it gets some resistance, but no grind or bind - itís perfect smooth; just a little tougher to turn.

All 4 bearings are Ďdeep grooveí ceramic/stainless hybrids with Ďbig balls.í
They are designed for higher axial load, but not as high as full angular contact bearings. With no oil or lube, they felt a little Ďloose.í This was the P58 sizing. They have a relatively high axial play. I didnít want this (which part of the reason I packed them a little!) but I was assured that, once under load, the play will go away... And sure enough, it has.

Critically, the axial load they take is perfectly enough. I can crank the drag nob fully tight at freespool and yet can still set the drag to full... and I can still turn the handle. Itís very tight, but still smooth. I donít know exactly, but the drag is super high - itís got to be >28/29lbs.

Iím not running it anywhere near that. Probably maxing out at about 20lbs - but it is buttery smooth!

Logged
redsetta
Moderator
Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2879


Auckland, New Zealand


« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2020, 08:08:32 PM »

Great work Dave - thanks for the update (and particularly the detail).
Be great to see some trip reports and pics!
Merry Christmas mate and good luck out on the water.
Cheers, Justin
Logged

Fortitudine vincimus - By endurance we conquer
Tiddlerbasher
Photo Group
Member
**
Online Online

Posts: 3152



« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2020, 08:10:38 PM »

If it fills 'Tight' to crank it's damaging the the left spool and pinion bearings period!!!!
I've played with this reel (and bearings) for a number of years. Just set the drag to 10lbs at strike and you will get approx. 20lbs at full - the bearings will thank you Wink
If you need more than that you need a BIGGER reel Grin
Seriously - 20lb drag equates to 60/80lb line.
Logged
DaveTM75
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2020, 03:54:13 AM »

If it fills 'Tight' to crank it's damaging the the left spool and pinion bearings period!!!!
I've played with this reel (and bearings) for a number of years. Just set the drag to 10lbs at strike and you will get approx. 20lbs at full - the bearings will thank you Wink
If you need more than that you need a BIGGER reel Grin
Seriously - 20lb drag equates to 60/80lb line.


Exactly... Iím probably set higher than this, but the principle is the same. I totally agree - if Iím asking more than 20 of it, I probably need a bigger reel... But it is now ready for a dedicated role.
I was using it on my light jigging rod. Iím dealing with small fish with this guy, and the rod will be pretty useless beyond say 5kgs.
I have a second, heavier jigging rod, but I hardly get to use it. It is tested to 23kgs, but in terms of fighting a fish, the rod backbone is probably worth no more than 10kgs... It will be a great pairing!

For my light jigging rod, I wrote to Santa and asked for a Seigler SGN. Fingers crossed....
Logged
DaveTM75
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2020, 03:58:35 AM »

Great work Dave - thanks for the update (and particularly the detail).
Be great to see some trip reports and pics!
Merry Christmas mate and good luck out on the water.
Cheers, Justin

For sure - Iíll get some action pics and post them. Also, I will at some point open the reel to replace the magnets in there where I magged it. I will strip it down to show the bearings I bought.  I got them from ABEC357.
Logged
DaveTM75
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2020, 05:47:46 AM »

If it fills 'Tight' to crank it's damaging the the left spool and pinion bearings period!!!!
I've played with this reel (and bearings) for a number of years. Just set the drag to 10lbs at strike and you will get approx. 20lbs at full - the bearings will thank you Wink
If you need more than that you need a BIGGER reel Grin
Seriously - 20lb drag equates to 60/80lb line.


This was playing on my mind this morning, so I went back and took another look.
The resistance I am feeling is present at freespool. I think it is just the difference between a fully greased set of gears, and gears that were clearly in need of some love and attention!
To give a comparison, before I stripped it down, at freespool - and up until the last 3-4 clicks before strike, there was no drag. There was also very little resistance in the cranking handle, in that I could hold the reel on its side and by tilting/rotating, the crank handle would go round.
Now, with the greasing, there is an a resistance to that. The reel now freespools for over a minute, but the handle has a resistance that feels smooth... A little like changing gear in rear wheel drive car to a front wheel drive! It actually feels exactly like my Avet MXJ Raptor did for the first few days on the kayak, before the gears shed the excess lube I guess.

The important thing - that resistance doesnít change from freespool to full drag... I think. I mean, Iím judging somewhat subjectively. If it does in fact increase, itís by a very small amount.



I need to get it out and get it into action to really find out. This is on the agenda!!
In regards to the bearings themselves, time will tell I guess, but at this point, I think my key bring-back to the group is this:


I donít think angular contact bearings are necessary. To get a right pinion bearing  and a far left zpool/pinion  bearing that a re both angular contact, you will be paying north of $100USD, or you are looking at unshielded chrome Steve bearings that will corrode in saltwater in no time.
If you can find some half decent deep groove hybrids (which I did!), then the deeper groove gives you a higher axial load capacity, and the balls are stronger than steel balls anyhow, so you are getting wat you need.
Half decent hybrids cost me (for all 4 bearings) $55USD. These, with a correctly sized sleeve give the reel access to a full, consistent drag curve and a drag level that SAFELY is beyond what such a little reel should be subjected to.

If you have - or come across- a Metaloid 5Nii that has been somewhat neglected, this is a great little project to turn around a reel that, when complete, feels 90-95% as solid and smooth as that MXJ Raptor. The fact it looks a bit battered makes it my EMO reel - so Iím happy!

Bearings from www.abec357.com
Small spool bearings (2 required): SMR686C-P58-A7-LD
Left pinion bearing: SMR696C2OSP58A7LD
Right pinion bearing: SMR606C-P58-A7-LD

Ti tube from eBay (ID=7mm, OD=10mm, length=150mm - piece required = 10.2mm... $15USD
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.066 seconds with 20 queries.