alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Rare Old D.A.M. Quick 221 Simple Tutorial, Breakdown, Cleaning, Service, Restoration
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
July 10, 2020, 10:47:32 AM *
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Author Topic: Rare Old D.A.M. Quick 221 Simple Tutorial, Breakdown, Cleaning, Service, Restoration  (Read 39905 times)
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Ruffy
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« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2020, 06:40:57 PM »

Fred,
Regarding spools on these. I know you've said that N series and non-N series are not interchangeable, and that if you put an N series spool on a non-N series shaft the spool sleeve will be stuck indefinitely with the only method of removal being cutting the spool sleeve off.

My question is, how do you know if the spool is from a N series or non-N series? I picked up another 221 cheap and having gone over one already full Fred-style, I want to do the same with this one and fish it. Problem is, the sleeve is stuck hard on the shaft. The button doesn't depress at all, I've had it soaking in penetrating oil but the button does not budge at all. Now I am wondering if it is the wrong sleeve and not likely to change. All good if it is, I will leave it as a permanent and just fish it. Otherwise, I'll keep going and try some cold/heat to free it up.

Cheers,
Andrew


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Ruffy
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« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2020, 06:59:35 PM »

Thought I'd share what could go wrong with these reels, if you don't have the right tools. I was almost too embarrased to post this, as I almost did 'googan' a very nice reel. I disassembled one of these reels, cleaned and out all the old peanut paste. I used a wood block in between the pinion and a ball pein hammer to hammer out the pinion as I did not have a soft faced hammer, which worked fine (albeit with a lot of force).

On reassembly though, I couldn't get the pinion to seat back fully into the bearing, the pinion just kept gouging into the wood, and I was using a lot more force then comfortable. My next thought, was to assemble the reel, and use the pinion nut to pull the pinion throught the bearing. And this is where I completely failed, it was still too tight and it stripped. Thankfully, it stripped the nut and not the pinion!

At this point I gave up and went and bought a soft faced hammer, which cost more then most of the reels I buy. The thread on the pinion I ran over with a die (M8 x 0.75mm if anyone is wondering) just to make sure it was fine, and I stole a replacement nut from another 221 I have. I have also found a replacement nut which will go on the second, less pristine 221 to make it fishable, although the outside diameter is 1mm larger which is workable but not ideal for other reasons. While at it, I bought some 0000 steel wool, and wow that made a difference!

Thankfully, I came out of this on top. After the full Fred treatment I am ready to move from the Penn camp to the DAM camp, it also means I can have small reels in right hand wind (bye bye 430SS and 712's, it's been good)

As a rough idea of how tight the tolerances are on these pinion-bearing assemblies, I've attached a photo of the bottom of the pinion. It has six evenly spaced marks from where they've used a press to push the pinion in, and indented the hardened steel. Even with a soft faced hammer I was exerting more force then I was really confortable with, and won't be separating them in the future.


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« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 07:15:04 PM by Ruffy » Logged
foakes
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« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2020, 07:02:40 PM »

Judging by the appearance of rust on the spool shaft -- under the brass spool sleeve -- the shaft rust likely goes up higher inside the sleeve.

Salt water will do this -- or just not adding a drop of oil from time to time.

Show us the spool -- top and bottom, plus the drag knob, and also the clicker assembly under the spool.

I suspect the spool and assembly are correct -- just rusted.

If the spool sleeve or spool shaft are ruined -- I can send you those parts when I send out the 331's.

But that sleeve should come off by tapping it with a nylon or rubber faced hammer -- after the P-Oil treatment.

If not -- no worries -- we have remedies.

Best, Fred

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Self-worth is how you value yourself. It’s not based on what others think of you or the things you have (or haven’t) accomplished—it comes from within. But it’s easy to forget that our worth isn’t determined by outside forces -- each of us sets our own price.

In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
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« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2020, 07:13:31 PM »

Judging by the appearance of rust on the spool shaft -- under the brass spool sleeve -- the shaft rust likely goes up higher inside the sleeve.

Salt water will do this -- or just not adding a drop of oil from time to time.

Show us the spool -- top and bottom, plus the drag knob, and also the clicker assembly under the spool.

I suspect the spool and assembly are correct -- just rusted.

If the spool sleeve or spool shaft are ruined -- I can send you those parts when I send out the 331's.

But that sleeve should come off by tapping it with a nylon or rubber faced hammer -- after the P-Oil treatment.

If not -- no worries -- we have remedies.

Best, Fred

Thanks for the quick response Fred! Here are photos of the complete assembly, I would not at all be surpised if it is rusted tight, as you can see the whole drag assembly is rusted. I will keep going with the penetrating oil and throw it in the freezer as well, see if I can start to free it up a little!

Cheers,
Andrew


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foakes
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« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2020, 07:35:37 PM »

Yes, that is the correct 220 spool, Andrew --  just a rust issue.

Best, Fred
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Self-worth is how you value yourself. It’s not based on what others think of you or the things you have (or haven’t) accomplished—it comes from within. But it’s easy to forget that our worth isn’t determined by outside forces -- each of us sets our own price.

In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
Midway Tommy
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« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2020, 09:06:52 PM »

Don't forget that a vinegar soak will loosen up galvanic corrosion. You can soak the sleeve & upper shaft in vinegar over night & it may very easily pop loose. You may get a little surface rust on the steel main shaft & the brass may turn pinkish but both will clean up easily with a little buffing/burnishing.   
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Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

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Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)
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« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2020, 11:32:43 PM »

Thanks Crow, found these for 7 bucks, they should get the job done.
Was that a Harbor Freight Special Clarence?
I need those. I have switched my game lately to big spinning reels. Fin Nor and Quantum.
I'm tired of using makeshift split ring tools.
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mo65
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« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2020, 06:38:43 AM »

Don't forget that a vinegar soak will loosen up galvanic corrosion. You can soak the sleeve & upper shaft in vinegar over night & it may very easily pop loose. You may get a little surface rust on the steel main shaft & the brass may turn pinkish but both will clean up easily with a little buffing/burnishing.   

   I had a Penn Seaboy 185 with the gear/sleeve/drags so corroded and stuck that I thought it would never come apart. An overnight vinegar soak did the trick. Yes...the brass all turned pink...but all pieces were usable and clean. Cool
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Midway Tommy
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« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2020, 10:40:35 AM »

Don't forget that a vinegar soak will loosen up galvanic corrosion. You can soak the sleeve & upper shaft in vinegar over night & it may very easily pop loose. You may get a little surface rust on the steel main shaft & the brass may turn pinkish but both will clean up easily with a little buffing/burnishing.   

   I had a Penn Seaboy 185 with the gear/sleeve/drags so corroded and stuck that I thought it would never come apart. An overnight vinegar soak did the trick. Yes...the brass all turned pink...but all pieces were usable and clean. Cool

I've always been able to bring the brass color back with a green scotch-brite buff.
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Love those open face spinning reels! (Especially ABU & ABU/Zebco Cardinals)

Tommy D (ORCA), NE



Favorite Activity? ............... In our boat fishing
RELAXING w/ MY BEST FRIEND (My wife Bonnie)
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« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2020, 03:13:45 PM »

Well, I left it sit overnight in vinegar, the brass sleeve came up nice and pink and I thought we might be on here. Nope, wouldn't budge. I've got a spare spool assembly, so my thoughts were to cut the sleeve off (as I have a spare), but save the shaft. Out came the dremel wheel, about 5 minutes of tentatively cutting grooves down both sides and separating revealed a horrible black mess of charcoal coloured rust. Got it all cleaned up and the photos below show what's left of the shaft due to rust! The spring function on the brass tabs is gone, and there ain't much meat left on the shaft. Fred, I may need to speak to you about some parts for this 221...

Cheers,
Andrew


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foakes
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« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2020, 03:33:08 PM »

Glad to send you a new spool shaft & spool/arbor sleeve, Andrew --

I will send it along with the pair of 331 high speeds -- and the other little parts you need.

N/C.

Best,

Fred
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Self-worth is how you value yourself. It’s not based on what others think of you or the things you have (or haven’t) accomplished—it comes from within. But it’s easy to forget that our worth isn’t determined by outside forces -- each of us sets our own price.

In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
handyandy
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« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2020, 05:54:57 AM »

My harbor freight ultrasonic and vinegar has helped me get some cruddy reels apart and cleaned. It has been worth the money been using mine for close to 5 years now. I even put brake fluid in it to soak parts with the heat to get off crappy old peeling paint.
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ReelFishingProblems
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« Reply #87 on: April 08, 2020, 03:01:37 PM »

Just did a complete tear down and rebuild of a 330.
It still seems a bit sluggish (much better than before cleaning out the old brown grease). I used penn grease and reel oil.
Nothing seems to be binding. Should I be looking for something slightly bent?
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mo65
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« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2020, 03:17:04 PM »

Just did a complete tear down and rebuild of a 330.
It still seems a bit sluggish (much better than before cleaning out the old brown grease). I used penn grease and reel oil.
Nothing seems to be binding. Should I be looking for something slightly bent?

   Like Fred has mentioned many times, try burnishing the brass bushings and the inside of the pinion. That will usually slick things up nicely. Cool
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foakes
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« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2020, 03:53:59 PM »

It's always possible that something could be bent, Nick --

Part of my early background was working on electronics -- TV's, stereos, radios, amps, etc.

I was always taught to eliminate the simpler explanations -- it was quicker and more effective.

Mike is right --

Assuming a thorough cleanup, burnishing and polishing of the crank axle, crank bushing, spool shaft, and pinion worm gear inside -- I use "0000" steel wool on these insides wrapped around a drill bit -- then another cleaning, rinse, and dry.

Don't forget to burnish and polish the tail end of the worm pinion gear & the bushing that supports it at the back of the casing.

If all of this micro-tuning is/has been done properly -- then You could move on to too much thick grease in the wrong places.

The spool shaft, crank shaft, and tail end of the worm pinion should only be lubed with synthetic oil -- no grease.

And the main bearing needs to be fully evacuated of any lubricants and crud -- soaked in a beaker of oil for 10 minutes -- than lightly lubed with a mixture of 2/3 light marine grease -- mixed with 1/3 synthetic oil.

If all this has been done -- then look for something else.

But the simplest solution to sluggishness after cleaning -- are the above possibilities.

I polish the mating metals just until they are hot to the touch and a mirror-like sheen -- that is just right.

Photos?

Best,

Fred
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Self-worth is how you value yourself. It’s not based on what others think of you or the things you have (or haven’t) accomplished—it comes from within. But it’s easy to forget that our worth isn’t determined by outside forces -- each of us sets our own price.

In life, be flexible, willing to listen to others, willing to change your mind based on your good judgement -- that is how progress is made, and new horizons are discovered.  When the winds of change blow -- A flexible limb moves and thrives -- a stiff and stubborn limb just snaps.
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