alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Long range arsenal
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Author Topic: Long range arsenal  (Read 84489 times)
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2015, 03:27:51 AM »


But to speak directly to what you're saying, you'd rather fight a 130# bluefin tuna on a single speed 4/0 with 40# line than a Makaira 10 with 40#?

No, not at all. A two speed is an excellent design.
To me, it would be nice to bring in a fish over 1,000 lbs one day while holding a 14/0, that would make it for me. Grin

If you ever decide to take on that challenge, seriously, I will build you a rod for it free of charge and go with you to watch you do it. 

It would be an honor having one of your rods and I will own one one day, but it would need to be one of these vintage Fenwick
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=2493.msg14474#msg14474
That is if I have any money left to go fish, from paying college tuition. I'm still not done Undecided.

Sorry John, I pulled away from your great post above.
I had no idea each of you guys bring so much gear on a long range trip, thanks for your advise.

Sal
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2015, 04:04:15 AM »

No need to apologize Sal.  Discussions are good!  That's what these forums are for after all.  When a lot of opinions are voiced, the reader can take from each one something that makes sense to them and then decide for themselves. 
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johndtuttle
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2015, 08:41:11 AM »

To the comments about using a penn 4/0 or Newell or penn 501 or whatever else, I say this: if you hooked a fish at the upper echelon of the grade you would target with that particular line class (80# or 90# YFT on 40, 50#bft on 30#, etc) would you feel more comfortable with the reels listed above or with a small, tricked out 2speed?  Ask yourself that question and let the answer guide you to what reels you choose. 

Like most of these discussions the trouble is posting single and clear thoughts on the topic and sorting out the rare case from the common.

If you look at the Landing Data of the fish actually caught (I did a couple of years ago) you can see just how common it is to land 100lb YFT or BFT and you find it is a very rare part of the catch within 8 day range of San Diego. These are trips targeting those larger fish but the chances are like 95% you will never see them on your trip.

It bumps up a few percentage points when you get to 10 day range, and then is pretty standard (and considered bad fishing Smiley) to be only catching 100lbers on a 14 day targeting Cows. But even then, "Cows" (Tuna over 200lbs) are only 1% of the fish landed yet guys take 4+ rigs just for cow fishing. They are targeting Cows after all.

Be that as it may, recent experience is a powerful motivator and if you do find yourself undergunned (or out of shape) most people tend to err on the side of caution. Conversely, those that consider themselves a little more "salty" are sometimes less concerned about the chance of being under gunned and prefer to fish more comfortable rigs to hold at the rail etc etc etc.

Basically to each their own.

If you are planning on live bait fishing exclusively then a modern 2-speed is a solid foundation for the "40lb" rig.

They are not as nice for casting and would be a second choice for slinging surface iron. But they are arguably better for yo-yo than a single speed reel because they have speed and cranking power. They definitely are better for dropper loop fishing (straight up and down) too so can definitely be considered in that "all around" category. Just don't get one too big as the bigger they are the more casting light baits gets challenging.

But, on most trips, on most fish, if you had that 3/0 quality star drag with you, you would be fishing it on the smaller models more commonly encountered and the 2 -speed would be in the rack. They fish a live bait that much nicer. They are easier to cast a little farther and the bait swims because it can pull line off of the lighter spool better. Turns a dud bait into a little engine that could. My 2 cents.

In addition to your choice of the 30/40lb rig for up to 8 day range the next one to add, imho, is a quality "Dropper Loop" set up. This is a 50-60lb rig fished on a shorter and heavier stick (like a Penn 16VSX, Accurate ATD12 etc on a 6'6" rod rated ~40-80). I always fish the dropper when I am dead beat and don't have the energy to yo-yo or nurse a bait. Gets bit heavy and 2 speeds is *very* useful here.

If you do get into the 100lb grade of fish this is also what you really want, imo. Get a hot bait, get bit, and have no trouble at all bringing the fish to the boat. You do always want something heavy in the rack offshore. In this case, I prefer the challenge of getting bit on a heavier rig rather than the guaranteed hookup on something too light to boat the fish.


(in before "remember that time when it was 120lb BFT boiling around the boat but they would only bite 30lb and you needed an 8' rod with the tip just so to cast away from the boat and only the hot sticks could get bit and only one was landed...." and other rare events that you can plan a lifetime for and never see but seem to happen once a year for one boat out of thousands off of San Diego.)

Of course, this reflects my own evolution for as minimalist as I may seem en regards to live bait fishing (really doesn't float my boat but, hey, it's fishing) I then add to these two basic rigs at least 2 jigging setups and 3-4 popping/stick bait rigs Cheesy. I do wish I had the discipline to fish one rig the whole trip, you really would land everything you could ever want with it if stocking the freezer and fishing till your arms fall of was the only goal.




« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 09:43:12 AM by johndtuttle » Logged
Jon Vadney
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2015, 04:41:32 AM »

I think john hit it on the head when he spoke about his "minimalist philosophy".  Your gear choice really has to come down to your philosophy of longrange fishing.  For me, longrange fishing is the only thing I lose sleep over.  The week before a longrange trip, I'm an absolute wreck.  I can't sleep.  I've gone over my "check list" no less than 5 times a day.  My wife hates me and my dogs are confused at this sleepless mumbling neanderthal who keeps moving fishing tackle around the house.  I look at longrange like this: all other fishing is to pass the time between longrange trips.  I don't care one bit about salmon (in fact, i reeeeeealllllly don't like salmon fishing).  I don't care about halibut.  I don't care about rockfish.  It's fun, but I'm not gonna stress over it.  Longrange for me is like a golfer playing at St. Andrews.  I WILL NOT go out there without the absolute best gear I can afford because ANY bait that I put in the water could mean a fish of a lifetime from one of my top 3 favorite fish to target (#1 YFT, #2 wahoo, #3 YT).  I can't catch any of those fish up here where I live, so the 8 - 12 days a year I get to spend on a longrange boat, I refuse to have myself undergunned.

With that being said, John is DEAD on when he states that you could do almost all of your LR fishing with a 3/0 sized star drag reel that can get 15-18# of drag. And he is also right in that 95% of the fish you hook on a LR trip will end up being <100#.  I rig up and am targeting that remaining 5%. Do I succeed?  Sometimes.  Do I have more money invested in gear than what is necessary to fish for what I fish for?  Absolutely.  

My recommendations stem from my personality and my philosophy about longrange fishing.  If you are goin out there to catch some fish, have some fun, do some 12oz curls and just get away from it all, take my tackle recommendations with a grain of salt.  I treat every piece of tackle like it is the 40# setup that is going to hook that stray 140# BFT that is swimming with the 30-40 pounders.  Yes I over-think everything.  Yes "good enough" isn't good enough for me.  Yes I know it's a problem.  









BUT I am no where near as afflicted with this issue as Alan is.  The dude has me saying "really...., you need THIS much gear?!" every time I go to his house hahahaha
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2015, 06:04:21 AM »

Jon, this is EXACTLY how I feel about the overnight trips we do to the NE canyons in the fall. All the other fishing done from Dec. to the following Aug. is just filling time. Don't get me wrong. I like to fish for other species that inhabit the inshore waters, but tuna in the canyons IMHO can't be beat. I went three years before last years outings without even stepping on a boat. Family med issues and such was a time suck. This year my first trip was in Oct. to the canyons. We were very fortunate to get our trips in with the weather windows that were presented to us. We were also EXTREMLY fortunate that the tuna gods decided to smile on us. So good things DO come to those who wait. I too, am a mumbling, stumbling idiot a few days before a trip.
 As far as tackle is concerned...almost anything you are lucky enough to hook can be landed on these trips with a 6/0 star drag. Unless you got something on your line with TRUELY broad shoulders( bigeye,200# bft, large sword) than you may be under gunned. I would like that opportunity though. I will go with 7/8 set ups on an 24 hr trip. Been there and done that when you have just the right setup in hand. Better than knowing you left it over 100 miles away on dry land. My wife thinks I have a girlfriend going fishing with me due to all the tackle.lol. We fishermen love to collect things. And having just the right equipment is, in my book, priceless!
  So you can minimalist it by bringing a select few rods(3/0 would and will cover 80 percent of most situations) or you can bring as much "stuff" as you think necessary!

This being said...I will most likely always own a truck to get to the boat! Grin Grin
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2015, 07:52:00 AM »

Heheh we gotta get Sal LR fishing sometime.  Grin

5 straight days and nights of fishing typically on a 7 day. You are in the water essentially as long as you can stay awake many days. And you haven't done any "real" fishing in over a year so the motivation is high.

Picture day 4 at Alijos Rocks: After 15 hours of pulling on Yellowtail and Tuna with the odd grouper now and then coming over the rail from predawn until dusk that dropper loop rig with the nice modern low geared 2-speed starts really shining. Feels like you can barely lift it to set it on the rail to soak a frisky mac after dinner but you can't resist getting in the water. Down she goes because Cappy says there are marks under the boat.

Why keep fishing? Because you are 200 miles off shore of remotest Baja California at anchor at one of the best fishing holes on earth and there are 100lb Grouper/100lb YFT or 60lb Yellowtail  potentially under the boat, that's why! And it might be years before you are back!

Without the modern 2-speed dropper loop set up in your quiver odds are you watch other guys fish as otherwise you just don't have the energy. Those low gears keep you fishing longer.

 Wink
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 12:39:07 PM by johndtuttle » Logged
Alto Mare
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2015, 08:23:39 AM »

 Grin Grin, John, I would love to share a boat with you, maybe one day.  You know, I'm serious about the 14/0, it is one of my dream... we can only hope. Wink

A while back, I sent a couple of emails to Captain Marciano from Wicked Tuna about me trying to get on his boat.
I mentioned that I would bring a few vintage reels that I've customized, I wanted to see what they could do, I told him that I would leave them there, he never answered. Undecided He probably said this guy is nuts. Grin

No worries though, me and Broadway will put together a trip  here in the Northeast, where only vintage reels are allowed. Grin
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2015, 09:00:45 AM »

Heheh we gotta get Sal LR fishing sometime.  Grin
Ain't that the truth!  Wink

Picture day 4 at Alijos Rocks: After 15 hours of pulling on Yellowtail and Tuna with the odd grouper now and then coming over the rail from predawn until dusk that dropper loop rig with the nice modern 2-speed starts really shining. Feels like you can barely lift it to set it on the rail to soak a frisky mac after dinner but you can't resist getting in the water. Down she goes because cappy says there are marks under the boat.
It's absolutely true. Alijos is beyond extraordinary... just seeing it is an awesome experince. But getting there on a 7-day is a real crapshoot; when the fish cooperate, it can be the ultimate angling jackpot, but if not, you've spent thousands for a loooong boat ride there and back.   Undecided

And it might be years before you are back!

For me, it's been fifteen years.  Angry That is simply unacceptable, and I am determined to get back there within the year. Life slips by much too quickly to miss out on such a one-of-a-kind adventure.  Cool

~A~
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2015, 09:46:04 AM »

On my 10 day that left on 9/27 the largest fish was a 52# wahoo caught at the rocks. The YT, YFT and Dorado were 10-30# with the wahoo being 30-50#. A good 30# or 40# rig was all that was really needed for bait and a 40-50# for yoyo. Sal would've been fine with a tricked out Jigmaster 501, 500 and YTS. This year? We'll see!
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2015, 10:14:34 AM »

Wait, did I see Avets in your line up?

I thought you didn't like Avets.
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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2015, 10:25:13 AM »

On my 10 day that left on 9/27 the largest fish was a 52# wahoo caught at the rocks. The YT, YFT and Dorado were 10-30# with the wahoo being 30-50#. A good 30# or 40# rig was all that was really needed for bait and a 40-50# for yoyo. Sal would've been fine with a tricked out Jigmaster 501, 500 and YTS. This year? We'll see!

O for sure, just whetting Sal's appetite with how it *can* play out, but certainly doesn't always. Grin

I have posted plenty on all that is strictly required on most trips to land tonnage. And there is a lot to be gained by mastering a simple rig.

I have also posted on many forums that "You should always have something heavy in the rack" an almost any trip. It's the Pacific Ocean and there are still very big fish out there.

I might be tempted to fish that quality 3/0 star drag an entire 7 day and it would probably land 100% of the fish on 95% of the trips.

But I would never go offshore without something heavy in the rack. Even in NorCal I have seen reels spooled by UFO (Unidentified Fish Objects) when out trolling for 20lb Albacore. I don't troll with 3/0 reels any more Smiley.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 12:37:19 PM by johndtuttle » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2015, 10:26:27 AM »

I don't go hunting for elephants with a mouse rifle and tend to fish and bring gear capable of dealing with fish on the high end of "average" for when/where I'm fishing.  On 15 day trips my bait maker rigs are 40lb and my wahoo rigs are 40lb and 60lb.  I went on a 10 day trip and never fished anything less than 80lb, most of the time we used 130lb.  On that trip I landed 2 over 200, several in the 60-195 pound range and the wahoo below, because I had the right selection of gear for the trip.  



Then there is days when you can even use 25#.


« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 10:30:27 AM by Keta » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2015, 10:30:39 AM »

Not comparing manufacturers, but I think the triple series would really perform nicely on that trip, that reel is only 1 lb 6oz in weight and packs lots of drag.
One speed will kick you butt, a couple of years ago, a 50T single speed put me out of commission for two weeks.
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2015, 01:08:41 PM »

Leaving end of month on 15 days in the lower zone. This is whats stacked by the door. Looks like a lot of stuff but just enough to get the job done with the minimum amount of gear, not my first rodeo. It's easy to gt carried away on a longer trip but one actually needs less tackle than a shorter trip where you have more species and methods, line weights, hook sizes, jigs etc. Longer trips are really a two fish trip...bigger YFT and Wahoo. 

 A few wahoo jig outfits with high speed reels and bombs,raiders,jigs. 2-3 tuna two speeds w/ 130# and appropriate terminal tackle and a 40#bait making rig , and you're good to go..BUT I'm with you Jon, that list keeps getting longer every year and the anticipation is half the fun.   GB



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MarkT
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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2015, 02:52:13 PM »

I just got back from the Longfin. I got some Owner solid rings (7.5 size) for rigging up knife jigs, a Salas 7x lite in a 'cool' bleeding Mac color, hey it doesn't have to catch fish, just fishermen!, a blue/white 7X heavy and a Penn Fathom 25NLD2. There went the Christmas money!  I guess I should sell my JX 6/3 now but probably not. At least there's now a Penn in my starting lineup!  

I also ran into Tony Garza of Soft Steel and David Choate, Wahoodad, long ranger extraordinaire, while I was there too. I've fished with David before and was a moderator with him on Allcoast (I was the tackle board and he was long range moderator) back when that meant something.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 04:19:57 PM by MarkT » Logged

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