alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial AR-15 Question
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Keta
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« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2015, 11:44:36 AM »

When I hunted waterfowl (I quit before the lead shot ban) my goose gun was a full choke 30" barreled M-97,  with #2 shot it killed geese at longish ranges well.  The Klamath Basin is still excellent waterfowl habitat.
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« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2015, 11:57:13 AM »

For personal and family protection around the house -- just have two weapons that we keep loaded...

A pistol in 9mm -- 7 round clip, none in the chamber.

And a 870 tac, short barrel, 20G.

Either weapon is good -- but I would never use the pistol for a warning -- only for a result.

Whereas, just racking the slide on the 870 takes care of close to 100% of two legged issues.

Wife can handle the 20 just fine -- and knows not to hesitate, ever.

Best,

Fred
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« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2015, 09:19:50 PM »

I only keep one gun not locked up in the safe. That is a Ruger 9mm with 15 rounds of Hydra Shock ammo. If I chose to leave a rifle out, it would either be an AK or a AR. The 223 Tap ammo is made to clear a house without over penetration. The shotgun is obviously the best choice, but if there were multiple threats, you need multiple bullets. A red dot Eo-tech or aimpoint is your best friend here.
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« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2015, 05:47:45 AM »

I only keep one gun not locked up in the safe. That is a Ruger 9mm with 15 rounds of Hydra Shock ammo. If I chose to leave a rifle out, it would either be an AK or a AR. The 223 Tap ammo is made to clear a house without over penetration. The shotgun is obviously the best choice, but if there were multiple threats, you need multiple bullets. A red dot Eo-tech or aimpoint is your best friend here.


In a combat situation you need a locked and ready weapon (real life scenario). It is illegal to have a loaded firearm in your home and any firearm has to be under lock unless you are in a carry situation with the proper license while you are on the go. Don't incriminate yourself!! Tap will pass threw soft Tissue at close range. Do a ballistics test with Ballistics Jell at 8'-12' .See what the results are. The aim point is nice but gives the perp your position. A high intensity mag light works better, it will blind the person at the other end with the intense light and give you the opportunity to get off a solid shot or two. I'm still sold on a tactical 12ga.

If you guys want to start a separate topic on self defense and firearms, then lets do that. We are Hi Jacking this posts original topic.       
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Keta
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« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2015, 05:54:19 AM »

The shotgun is obviously the best choice, but if there were multiple threats, you need multiple bullets.

My shotguns hold 6 2-3/4" shells.

It is illegal to have a loaded firearm in your home and any firearm has to be under lock unless you are in a carry situation with the proper license while you are on the go.


Not where I live, we can even get around CC licensing if going to or coming from a hunting or fishing trip.  I'm ALWAYS "going to or coming from a hunting or fishing trip".... Grin.


« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 06:00:26 AM by Keta » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2015, 06:19:56 AM »

The shotgun is obviously the best choice, but if there were multiple threats, you need multiple bullets.

My shotguns hold 6 2-3/4" shells.

It is illegal to have a loaded firearm in your home and any firearm has to be under lock unless you are in a carry situation with the proper license while you are on the go.


Not where I live, we can even get around CC licensing if going to or coming from a hunting or fishing trip.  I'm ALWAYS "going to or coming from a hunting or fishing trip".... Grin.






I'm not up on Organ Firearms law But what I should clarify is. I am referencing in the HOME! If the laws in your particular state allow for a loaded firearm in the house that is your choice then....I hope for your sake and your family that there are no children in that environment. Please be safe! God has blessed use with a brain that is supposed to be superior to the lesser animals on this planet. Lets keep it that way. Loaded guns in the home are an accident looking to happen. Nuff said!     
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« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2015, 06:31:41 AM »

A unloaded firearm is not any better than a piece of pipe.  My kids grew up around firearms and know that every gun is loaded until checked and no gun is a toy, my granddaughter has been raised the same way.  My kids never had BB guns or 22s, they learned to shoot with a cut down Brazilian Mauser in 7x57.

My daughter started my granddaughter shooting when she was 5, hunting at 6.  Her dad holds the barrel, she puts the stock under her arm and shoots.

First grouse



One of our garden eaters.



On the road to my daughters place.




« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 06:33:31 AM by Keta » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2015, 08:43:35 AM »

Keta: I also raised three children the same way and never had an incident, but I also did not keep a gun locked and loaded simply because I felt safe doing that. The little girl holding the goose is cute as can be, and very proud of her quarry, I can see. Nice looking Muley and Goats, wish we had them here. The white tail are here all the time trying to eat our crops but the electric wire keeps them in check. Had two Buck in velvet outside of our fence the other day eyeballing our crop, the peanut butter on foil over the electric wire has taught them a good lesson Shocked Grin. So we have NO PROBLEM!! Wink Cheesy

 You are in a beautiful part of the country, wish I had been there when I was healthy enough to enjoy it. The only thing I am fit for is fishing on the shore in a chair anymore.
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« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2015, 10:30:33 AM »

I know this post started as a AR-15 topic and somehow by me offering a different perspective on my comments about the AR. it morphed into home protection....so I just wanted to make myself clear on home defense as I know it and stated here.

First since it means something to people in regard to credentials. I was a certified firearms instructor for 20yrs a range officer for 15yrs practiced gun smithing for 40yrs+.

Home defense has as many opinions as there are people out there. This is my honest opinion after years of practice with ballistics and the shooting fraternity, both shooting with and studding with some of the worlds beat in the field.

     First let me state there is no perfect weapon for home defense. In most cases the use of deadly force in the home arena will be at close range....8' to 15'

Using a pistol or revolver in a .38 cal up to .357mag or a pistol in a .25 cal to .45 ACP is going to be effective at those ranges (In the hands of a well trained individual). This is what I am basing my information on and it is what is intended. Not on someone that knows nothing about self defense with a firearm.

    Second a shotgun is also a great defense weapon at that range with 2-3/4" 00Buck standard load Not 3" Mag loads or slug. (It is not necessary) at the ranges I mentioned. This means a Defense stile shot gun,not a Hunting shot gun.

    Third Rifle, since we are talking about the AR, that is what I will address. .223 Cal using HP (Hollow Point) ammunition at close range will penetrate threw soft flesh unless it hits bone, at close range. Why do I say this? Because even at low velocity in a rifle cartridge it will not have low enough pressure to expand properly to effectively stop penetration. Keep in mind you need enough gas pressure to function the action of the AR.

All of these weapons have a very loud report and flash in a home shoot situation, so don't discount the effects of any one of them on your hearing and sight.

Those are my points for Home defense. I'm not trying to sell myself to anyone so I have no agenda or business to promote.           

Well said. Here is something else to add to the, "think about it," concept Reel 224 uses. So let us set the stage. Most home defense training at ranges have targets set at 21 feet. That supports the idea that most home defense encounters are 7 to 15 feet. You also probably need to think that the offender is coming at you and not going away from you. In other words, your safety zone and margin for error are shrinking. Now this next comment might raise some eyebrows. When the offender is going away from you, don't shoot, period. Even in your own home in the State of Florida where they have a, "Stand Your Ground," law, you're at least going to go to trial for shooting someone in the back. So in the close encounter situation where the offender is coming at me what is the worst case situation you can think of? I'd probably say being awakened in bed as someone busts through your bedroom door in the middle of the night.

1)  I opt for a handgun over a rifle or a shotgun. In the half daze of sleep I can grab and maneuver a handgun quicker than I can either of the other two.
2)  I would want to get off a first round as quickly as possible in the general direction of the offender. Don't have time to worry about aiming so I need to have practiced point and shoot accuracy at the range. This means a handgun with the safety off, a round in the chamber, and a double action trigger.
3)  Your handgun needs to have grips that you are comfortable gripping, a trigger weight that you can pull in double action, and be chambered in a caliber you can handle. Let me use my wife as an example. She tried to use a 1970 era Walther .380 PPK/s. Trigger pull in DA is about 17 pounds. Got her a 22TCM from Armscor and she loves it. Trigger pull is about 5 pounds and once she get used to it we'll put some good pointing sights on it. 22 you ask? Well it has a muzzle velocity about 1900 fps and shoots a 40 grain that gel tests show to meet FBI specs for a self defense weapon.
4)  For anyones eyes, you need something to help you point, not aim, that first shot. Get yourself a good set of tritium night sights (Trijicon or Meprolight) on your handgun. Another choice is a grip activated laser sight. Either will help a lot in at least pointing in the right direction and maybe getting hat first round hit.
5) Another thing to think about is ammo. There are many studies being done on ammo these days since we have gotten into the C&C .380 craze. By the way, in my mind, a much maligned round, that can be very effective in the carefully selected handgun. Anyway, what ever your caliber choice, look at the gel test results that are available on the internet and pick the best round for your weapon.

Finally a big thanks to Reel 224 for getting me to put into words what I, "Think about it." Smiley
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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2015, 10:43:12 AM »

A unloaded firearm is not any better than a piece of pipe.  My kids grew up around firearms and know that every gun is loaded until checked and no gun is a toy, my granddaughter has been raised the same way.  My kids never had BB guns or 22s, they learned to shoot with a cut down Brazilian Mauser in 7x57.

My daughter started my granddaughter shooting when she was 5, hunting at 6.  Her dad holds the barrel, she puts the stock under her arm and shoots.

First grouse



Kita, great pictures and a nice grouse. Bet that tasted really good. I also raised my kids the same way. A big takeaway from that upbringing is that they all know very well that guns can kill and you never point a gun at another human being unless you fear for your life or you are in the military or police forces and need to neutralize a threat.

One of our garden eaters.



On the road to my daughters place.





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« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2015, 01:25:08 PM »

I know this post started as a AR-15 topic and somehow by me offering a different perspective on my comments about the AR. it morphed into home protection....so I just wanted to make myself clear on home defense as I know it and stated here.

First since it means something to people in regard to credentials. I was a certified firearms instructor for 20yrs a range officer for 15yrs practiced gun smithing for 40yrs+.

Home defense has as many opinions as there are people out there. This is my honest opinion after years of practice with ballistics and the shooting fraternity, both shooting with and studding with some of the worlds beat in the field.

     First let me state there is no perfect weapon for home defense. In most cases the use of deadly force in the home arena will be at close range....8' to 15'

Using a pistol or revolver in a .38 cal up to .357mag or a pistol in a .25 cal to .45 ACP is going to be effective at those ranges (In the hands of a well trained individual). This is what I am basing my information on and it is what is intended. Not on someone that knows nothing about self defense with a firearm.

    Second a shotgun is also a great defense weapon at that range with 2-3/4" 00Buck standard load Not 3" Mag loads or slug. (It is not necessary) at the ranges I mentioned. This means a Defense stile shot gun,not a Hunting shot gun.

    Third Rifle, since we are talking about the AR, that is what I will address. .223 Cal using HP (Hollow Point) ammunition at close range will penetrate threw soft flesh unless it hits bone, at close range. Why do I say this? Because even at low velocity in a rifle cartridge it will not have low enough pressure to expand properly to effectively stop penetration. Keep in mind you need enough gas pressure to function the action of the AR.

All of these weapons have a very loud report and flash in a home shoot situation, so don't discount the effects of any one of them on your hearing and sight.

Those are my points for Home defense. I'm not trying to sell myself to anyone so I have no agenda or business to promote.           

Well said. Here is something else to add to the, "think about it," concept Reel 224 uses. So let us set the stage. Most home defense training at ranges have targets set at 21 feet. That supports the idea that most home defense encounters are 7 to 15 feet. You also probably need to think that the offender is coming at you and not going away from you. In other words, your safety zone and margin for error are shrinking. Now this next comment might raise some eyebrows. When the offender is going away from you, don't shoot, period. Even in your own home in the State of Florida where they have a, "Stand Your Ground," law, you're at least going to go to trial for shooting someone in the back. So in the close encounter situation where the offender is coming at me what is the worst case situation you can think of? I'd probably say being awakened in bed as someone busts through your bedroom door in the middle of the night.

1)  I opt for a handgun over a rifle or a shotgun. In the half daze of sleep I can grab and maneuver a handgun quicker than I can either of the other two.
2)  I would want to get off a first round as quickly as possible in the general direction of the offender. Don't have time to worry about aiming so I need to have practiced point and shoot accuracy at the range. This means a handgun with the safety off, a round in the chamber, and a double action trigger.
3)  Your handgun needs to have grips that you are comfortable gripping, a trigger weight that you can pull in double action, and be chambered in a caliber you can handle. Let me use my wife as an example. She tried to use a 1970 era Walther .380 PPK/s. Trigger pull in DA is about 17 pounds. Got her a 22TCM from Armscor and she loves it. Trigger pull is about 5 pounds and once she get used to it we'll put some good pointing sights on it. 22 you ask? Well it has a muzzle velocity about 1900 fps and shoots a 40 grain that gel tests show to meet FBI specs for a self defense weapon.
4)  For anyones eyes, you need something to help you point, not aim, that first shot. Get yourself a good set of tritium night sights (Trijicon or Meprolight) on your handgun. Another choice is a grip activated laser sight. Either will help a lot in at least pointing in the right direction and maybe getting hat first round hit.
5) Another thing to think about is ammo. There are many studies being done on ammo these days since we have gotten into the C&C .380 craze. By the way, in my mind, a much maligned round, that can be very effective in the carefully selected handgun. Anyway, what ever your caliber choice, look at the gel test results that are available on the internet and pick the best round for your weapon.

Finally a big thanks to Reel 224 for getting me to put into words what I, "Think about it." Smiley

Retrofit: Thank you for giving me some credit but those are your thoughts and ideas. We all have ideas on the subject of self defense whether it is in our experience or our reading articles about the subject, and in this world we live in we need to be prepared!

Joe   
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 01:28:46 PM by Reel 224 » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2015, 01:41:45 PM »

Speaking of being prepared...given what went on in Paris what do we need to do to prepare for something like that?  60 minutes showed what NY and Washington are doing.  NY is going right in and shooting up the place with no regard for the hostages.  DC says the same thing.  Apparently the terrorists will start killing pretty quickly and only take hostages for publicity before they kill the hostages.  So the police are going right in and not waiting for back-up on the theory that they will save more lives by quickly putting the shooters down even if it means they lose some hostages.  So if you go to a ball game security will take your handgun away but somehow the dirt bags will get a weapon in.  I will be prepared in some circumstances but not where there is a magnetometer.  Interestingly enough the chief of police in DC said that we should take action should we be in such a situation.  Yet the magnetometer will squeal on you if you are carrying to defend yourself.  We are living in dangerous times.  Dominick
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« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2015, 03:40:30 PM »

Speaking of being prepared...given what went on in Paris what do we need to do to prepare for something like that?  60 minutes showed what NY and Washington are doing.  NY is going right in and shooting up the place with no regard for the hostages.  DC says the same thing.  Apparently the terrorists will start killing pretty quickly and only take hostages for publicity before they kill the hostages.  So the police are going right in and not waiting for back-up on the theory that they will save more lives by quickly putting the shooters down even if it means they lose some hostages.  So if you go to a ball game security will take your handgun away but somehow the dirt bags will get a weapon in.  I will be prepared in some circumstances but not where there is a magnetometer.  Interestingly enough the chief of police in DC said that we should take action should we be in such a situation.  Yet the magnetometer will squeal on you if you are carrying to defend yourself.  We are living in dangerous times.  Dominick

Dominick: You are right but we also have to be aware of our surroundings and watch out for suspicious people and items left unattended, that's all we can do when were out in public.

The police and media shouldn't have given all that information to the general public on there producers. As Jackie Gleason said. " You got a big mouth"

Joe       
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« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2015, 05:29:55 PM »

Yeah Joe, I felt the same way.  They even followed the NYPD moving through the training exercises.  However, if you know what to expect you can act accordingly.  If you are without a weapon to defend yourself the key is to do what you have to do to survive.  Sometimes hiding is a way to get through it.  Dominick
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Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis.

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« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2015, 08:26:41 PM »

Yeah Joe, I felt the same way.  They even followed the NYPD moving through the training exercises.  However, if you know what to expect you can act accordingly.  If you are without a weapon to defend yourself the key is to do what you have to do to survive.  Sometimes hiding is a way to get through it.  Dominick

That's good advice Dominick.

Joe
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