"PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE" in SHIMANO Reels ???

[ez2cdave]

I was surfing the web and came across a couple of interesting items about SHIMANO reels, up to and including the STELLA, outlining problems that seem to transcend all levels of SHIMANO reels.

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?105525-Why-I-Will-Never-Buy-Another-Shimano-Product-Short-Life-Span

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?104471-Stella-6000FA-Repair

I wanted to share this for those considering purchasing SHIMANO reels in the future, as well as current owners . . . Something to take into consideration!

Tight Lines !

[whalebreath]

It's one way to do business.

Look @ Penn they carried parts for every single thing they ever made for decades & decades and did they make a dime doing it?

[Slazmo]

Ahh "Planned Obsolescence"... Blame Osram, Phillips and other Light Bulb companies for this term and this act.

I knew years ago when Shimano Australia was headed by the late Mr John Dunphy (RIP), that Shimano prided themselves on having spare parts for 10 years minimum. Daiwa was a issue a couple of years ago where I had a 2005 Daiwa Laguna 2000 spin reel and it needed a new gear set both pinion and drive gear, a couple of eMails thrown around internally at Daiwa and a reply to me saw a new reel land on my doorstep 2 days later (no questions asked).

They, being Daiwa reproduce parts however could take 18 months or more for them to redo parts runs (limited quantities)...

Shimano, well "who knows"... Parts are expensive enough for what they are - I guess they have to keep making money somehow???

I guess its just down to how much does a reel cost to replace these days. Something I constantly tell my people that I service for, a reel worth $130 AUD is only worth servicing twice in its lifetime over maybe 3 years or so depending on use and dunking in water. And just looking after it between service intervals with oiling critical areas.

If its got extreme sentimental value I guess sourcing second hand reels and cannibalising the parts from them may be a option if parts becomes sparse.

Andrew

[dutchy17]

We are moving to a throw away society more and more. I have found this with lower end reels from all manufacturers not having available parts less than 12 months after being superseded by a new model. And i believe this will start happening with higher end reels sooner rather than later. It is called "Profit Margin". 

[Slazmo]

Agreed with the profit margin comment. However with cheaper reels eg: Stradic's around the $220 mark you should get 2 to 5 years out of a reel with minimal maintenance and longer with good maintenance like I do.

Also there are a lot of parts that can go either way from 'brother' reels, what fits in a Stradic can fit into a Saros and into a Sustain and Biomaster / Rarenium etc.

If parts for a particular reel are obsolete you can substitute - thats if the service / spares department wants to play nice?

[foakes]

Andrew, Dutchy, and others are right --

Most folks like us would like to be loyal to a manufacturer, and also for that producer of our reels to be loyal to us -- in turn.

However, this Pollyanna approach on our part is not realistic in today's global economy.

The Internet we all love has changed that -- now we can sit in our pajamas -- and order anything we need -- and it will be delivered to our doorstep between 2 and 6 days.

As we have adjusted to this new retail consumer market -- the companies that intend to stay in business, have also changed their old views and methods of interacting with their customers (or they are no longer in business).

They feel they have needed to throw out the ideas such as Loyalty, Support, Longevity of products, Quality, and even Employee Appreciation.

Penn, Daiwa, Shimano, and Okuma -- all have similar stories, nowadays.

History is an interesting teacher --

Penn pioneered a new, less expensive tackle market that persevered for many decades.  Penn's success forced other manufacturers to close down shop -- including Ocean City.

Daiwa flooded the market with literally thousands of various reel models and variations -- and widely different qualities and price ranges.

Shimano saw the success of Penn and Daiwa -- and decided to build both cheap quality and very high quality reels.  They based part of their business model on really taking good care of the consumer, dealer, and repair shop.  In a majority of cases -- when a part was no longer available, a consumer was unhappy, a repair guy complained about certain issues with a reel -- Shimano would just either take care of the issue at no charge, or give the shop or consumer a newer, more advanced reel out of the box.  No questions asked.  Great advertisement -- and this extra effort insured brand loyalty for years to come.

Now comes Okuma on the scene.  They look at Penn, Daiwa, and Shimano -- see what has worked, and what has failed -- and decided to concentrate on building both average and very high quality reels.  Give clients a little extra, increase quality yearly, and earn their place at the table.

But as a consumer, whether we pay $1,300 for a Stella, $120 for a Lethal 100, $70 for a Jigmaster, or $24.99 for a low end Daiwa -- we need to realize that these companies are not going to keep new parts in stock forever.  We will be fortunate to have parts support for 2 or 3 years -- that is the reality as we are brutally honest with ourselves.

When we can buy a printer for less than the replacement ink cartridge, or get a new expensive cell phone new every two years -- how can we expect anything different from the reel manufacturers -- who are using the same business model as every 21st Century company?

Planned obselescence -- it will be interesting to watch.

Just my opinions,

Fred

[Rothmar2]

Wise words indeed Fred.

You touched on "employee appreciation". There is a massive can of worms to open with the so called "global economy" society we live in today. I won't get into my feelings about this, but I really do wonder about the long term effects on the world we live in.

[whalebreath]

Well posted Fred!

[the_reel_doc]

 I had a Stella 6000FA come in the other day that needed a handle and some other parts. The handle arm was still in stock but no knob was available which I probably could have come up with something for that but there were internal parts that needed replacing and they were discontinued so I just took it back and told the guy to break it into parts and make as much as he could to help pay for a new one. Makes no sense to pay $700 for a reel and then not be able to use it. Also today I went to Shimano website to order some drag washers for a Stella 10000 SW. Checked to see if they were in stock. They were. Part RD 12391 Need 2 per reel. $20.77 each! Part RD12394 1 per reel. $22.75 each! Part RD 12397 1 per reel. $22.75 each! So that's $87 for a set of drags times 4 reels = $348. Are you kidding me? Went on e-Bay and found them for $10 a set!

[Keta]

Today I was given a Bantam 50 that the owner had sent to Shimano for repair, they sent it back with out even opening it.  I cleaned it and replaced the drag washers and it's ready to fish.

[ez2cdave]

I had a Stella 6000FA come in the other day that needed a handle and some other parts. The handle arm was still in stock but no knob was available which I probably could have come up with something for that but there were internal parts that needed replacing and they were discontinued so I just took it back and told the guy to break it into parts and make as much as he could to help pay for a new one. Makes no sense to pay $700 for a reel and then not be able to use it. Also today I went to Shimano website to order some drag washers for a Stella 10000 SW. Checked to see if they were in stock. They were. Part RD 12391 Need 2 per reel. $20.77 each! Part RD12394 1 per reel. $22.75 each! Part RD 12397 1 per reel. $22.75 each! So that's $87 for a set of drags times 4 reels = $348. Are you kidding me? Went on e-Bay and found them for $10 a set!

Companies like SHIMANO will only "get away" with this, as long as we ALLOW them to do so, by "playing their game" . . .

BOYCOTT just the overly-expensive reels, at first, and then make our displeasure known over the "support" issues. Then, take it right on down the entire Product Line, if they don't get the message . . .

I'm sure that PENN would "listen" to their customers under such circumstances and DAIWA probably would, too !

SHIMANO needs to be shown the "error of their ways" and "hitting them in the pocket" seems to be the best way to accomplish this !!!

[alantani]

i had a conversation with the okuma guys a couple of years ago.  their market share had increased 15% a year for 5 years in a row.  all by listening to their customers.   

[Bryan Young]

Good for Okuma.  I'm glad for them.

Penn has really created a customer loyalty marketing plan from the beginning as I see it.  We all have started out with their fairly inexpensive Squidders, Jigmasters, Senators,...on the conventional side, and Penn's silver series spinners.  All very reliable and inexpensive to maintain.  Then we moved up to the International Series and the SS series reels based on our loyalty and our confident reliability from Penn.

Daiwa too had their many planned obsolescence if you look at their line-up but there were some true reels that gained Daiwa's loyalty and trust.  Daiwa's Sealine series from the 900H, 600H,...down to the 27H aluminum framed and side plate reels.  I have not see one of those gears shred yet.  They are real beefy, that's for sure.  And for their Spinners, the Black Gold line of reels.  I still have and use mine from probably 30 years ago.  Strong solid spinner reel that would honestly compete with Penn's SS series growing up in Hawaii.

I think Planned Obsolescence was really created by USA's automobile industry.  At one time, cars were though to be used for 5 years then we would turn in the old car and buy a new one.  Then parts would be available for another 10 years just in case someone kept their car a little longer.  Prior to that, it was common for us Americans to drive a car for 10 years or longer.  They were easy to fix and parts were readily available even though the car was 20+ years old.  The Japanese automotive industry took what us Americans used to do and created a line of cars that lasted easily 300k miles before a rebuild was even considered.  They have created customer loyalty based on this.  Today, car companies cannot just survive on this customer loyalty, so cars too have gone the way of planned obsolescence....

BTW, for Stellas, I have found that if you send Shimano a Stella reel, they will likely charge you the service fee, but parts are usually free.  My friends in Hawaii fish their Stellas very hard for GT.  They have stripped gears almost every year, and for the past 3 years, they have sent their reels in to Shimano and have been getting replacement gears for free.  Granted, if they had to pay $50 or more for a gear set every year, they would not continue to buy Stellas to complete their fishing reel line up...from 10# to 80# braid.  Bling bling...I feel poor just thinking about it.....

[ez2cdave]

Penn has really created a customer loyalty marketing plan from the beginning as I see it.  We all have started out with their fairly inexpensive Squidders, Jigmasters, Senators,...on the conventional side, and Penn's silver series spinners.  All very reliable and inexpensive to maintain.  Then we moved up to the International Series and the SS series reels based on our loyalty and our confident reliability from Penn.

Daiwa too had their many planned obsolescence if you look at their line-up but there were some true reels that gained Daiwa's loyalty and trust.  Daiwa's Sealine series from the 900H, 600H,...down to the 27H aluminum framed and side plate reels.  I have not see one of those gears shred yet.  They are real beefy, that's for sure.  And for their Spinners, the Black Gold line of reels.  I still have and use mine from probably 30 years ago.  Strong solid spinner reel that would honestly compete with Penn's SS series growing up in Hawaii.

Bryan,

Congratulations ! You have described most of my "Fishing Arsenal" . . . A few pics of my Spinners are below !

[ez2cdave]

A few more pics . . .