alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Accurate Boss Reels Triple AR Bearings
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
July 15, 2020, 09:24:26 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Accurate Boss Reels Triple AR Bearings  (Read 12420 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
eldoradoman
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« on: March 01, 2015, 01:42:28 PM »

So I have been tinkering with some of the older accurates after reading Alan's article about adding the 2nd AR bearing to the BX2 models.  I have made some 3 AR bearing upgrades to the boss series reels.  I am not sure if it is really worth it to pay for 3 bearings but since I service them regularly I am experimenting with less expensive bearings than Boca off ebay and such.  Here is what I found.  I'm sure that someone else has already played around with one of these reels but Alan suggested I post my findings.

Here is what I have found in my tinkering.

Single speed Boss Accurate - Currently there are 2 bushings and 2 AR bearings(10x14x12).  
These have a torque rating of somewhere between 4.4-5.3 N.m depending.  I think that the SS ones are actually 4.4 N.m. and ones that aren't SS or have the knurled plastic springs are 5.3 N.m..  Let's assume factory ones are 5.3 N.m to give them the benefit of the doubt.  There is an option to replace one bearing and spacer with two 10x14x8 bearings.  
Current rating Boss single speed - 2(10x14x12) bearings =   2(5.3) = 10.6 N.m total torque
Optional setup -  1(10x14x12) + 2(10x14x8) = 1(5.3) + 2 (4.5) = 14.3 N.m. total torque
Honestly I have never had an AR bearing fail on me but I do tend to under fish them so not to push them to the limits.  I may try upping things a bit with the extra bearing.

For a two speed I think you can fit in the extra 10x14x8 in addition to the existing 2 bearings.  I haven't tested this yet but there is a little more spacing due to the different gear shaft so it would be similar to what Alan did on the BX2 models.  I will try this soon.
Stock B-2 - 2(10x14x12) = 2(5.3) = 10.6 N.m. total torque
Optional setup = remove both spacers and add 1 10x14x8 bearing = 10.6 + 4.5 = 15.1 N.m. total torque

In comparison, here are the specs on the BX2 models.
Stock - 1(14x20x16) plus two bushings = 17.4 N.m. total torque
Upgrade 1 - 1(14x20x26) plus one bushings = 17.4 N.m. total torque - This helps with handle smoothness because there are additional roller bearings but no additional AR properties.
Upgrade 2 - 2(14x20x16) without bushings = 34.8 N.m. total torque - as Alan has stated...this would be pretty tough to have fail.  I think something else in the reel would fail first if properly maintained.

I have been looking for a 14x20x12 AR bearing so that one could be added to the BX single speed models but can't seem to find a supplier.  I have seem them listed on some product sheets from bearing manufacturers but I think you would have to place a large order to have them made.  They suppliers haven't responded to my requests about orders for $100 or so for a few pieces.

One thing I haven't figured out is how to properly equate torque rating in N.m. to drag pressure.  Other that spending a lot of time testing them until finding out the drag in which they fail I am not sure how else to do this.  I am not so inclined to spend that much time on it.

Anyway, I just thought I would share my information in case anyone was interested.  I can post specific part numbers and suppliers if anyone has any questions.  Finding exact torque spec's has been difficult, though.  So far the only company who shows their torque spec's are Boca Bearing and they are the more expensive supplier(but reliable products).

I am not sure how to post photos between text but below is a photo of an accurate B-870.  On the left is the original AR bearing stack.  On the right is the 1 10x14x12 bearing in the middle of 2 10x14x8 bearings.  I also used one of the spacers on the right stack and it was the exact size needed. I pressed them out and in using a 1 ton arbor press I purchased at Harbor Freight tools for $49 in addition to some sockets to make sure not to bend the reel housing.  I also had to use a wrench on the handle of the arbor press to get enough torque to get the old rusted bearing out.  I purchased this reel on ebay cheap and there were a few problems which I expected.


* Accurate Boss Bearing Options.jpg (640.89 KB, 2048x1152 - viewed 621 times.)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 01:49:15 PM by eldoradoman » Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 18576



« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 03:52:00 PM »

nicely done!!!!
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
Bryan Young
Ultimate Upgrades Drags
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 10482


The Reel Whisperer


« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 07:21:59 PM »

Nice.  I need to do the same tomorrow...unfortunately.

I like the triple...I have to consider this option.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 09:22:33 AM by Bryan Young » Logged

Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
eldoradoman
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 09:08:46 AM »

FYI Bryan...I am trying different bearing options but the last ones I purchased were these stainless steel ones from VXB Bearings.  Unfortunately they don't give a torque rating but it seems as though the 10x14x8 torque ratings are only slighty less than the 10x14x12 in every other place that I can find ratings.
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/SHF1008
Logged
Bryan Young
Ultimate Upgrades Drags
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 10482


The Reel Whisperer


« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2015, 10:08:00 AM »

The reel I'm working is a Boss 600 2 speed with an overall bearing housing tube length of 29 mm, so I was thinking of any of the following combinations that would work:

Two - 14 x 20 x 14 with a 1 mm gap between the two bearings
One - 14 x 20 x 26 with a 3 mm spacer
One - 14 x 20 x 16 plus One - 14 x 20 x 12 with a 1 mm gap between the two bearings

I only seem to find 14 x 20 x 16 in stainless...no other sizes are available in stainless.  Not sure what I'm planning to do if I cannot find the bearings in stainless.
Logged

Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
eldoradoman
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2015, 10:14:20 AM »

Yes.  I ran into the same problem on that reel.  I used the 14x20x26 but could not find it in stainless steel either. I will just make sure I keep it maintained. I have a call into a few different bearing company is hoping to locate a 14 x16x12. I will let you know if I eventually find one.
Logged
Robert Janssen
Sensei
Member
***
Online Online

Posts: 795


« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2015, 10:47:14 AM »

I take it y'all are aware of the need or preference of supplemental support of the shaft... right?

.
Logged
eldoradoman
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 12:03:55 PM »

Basically the shaft is 30mm on the single speeds and you have a little more room on the 2 speeds(I think up to 2mm additional because of the 2 speed mechanism).  You have to use bearings and spacers to support the entire 30mm shaft.  With any of the bearings mentioned if there is not enough length to equal 30mm you can use the factory installed bushings in combination to make sure that the entire shaft is supported. If you are referring to something else then please let me know.
Logged
Robert Janssen
Sensei
Member
***
Online Online

Posts: 795


« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2015, 12:16:20 PM »

Yes, thats right. Or, not really that the entire length be supported, but that the shaft in the one-way roller cluches is. Or, more properly in the words of INA, (similar can be found at essentially all the manufacturers directives) :

"It must be noted that the drawn cup roller clutch is a one-way clutch and not a bearing. If a bearing arrangement is required since radial forces are acting on the drawn cup roller clutch, an additional bearing arrangement must be provided. Furthermore, the bearing arrangement can be integrated in the drawn cup roller clutch, giving an HFL.

The bearing arrangement can be provided by a needle roller bearing or plain bearing. Plain bearings are more economical and, especially in the case of smaller drawn cup roller clutches, are advantageous due to the reduced design envelope. However, they have a higher frictional torque than needle rollers."

.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2015, 12:19:22 PM by Robert Janssen » Logged
eldoradoman
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 03:34:56 PM »

I agree.  From the factory, the Accurate BX reels have one bearing with two spacers and ideally it would be better to have additional bearings instead of spacers.  The HFL 1426 serves this purposed well with just one added small spacer to fill the gap.  It is unfortunate that they don't make one in SS.
Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 18576



« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2015, 04:12:02 PM »

the closest radial bearing i could find is a 10x15x4.  as tight as the fit is, though, i wonder if a double or triple stack of AR bearings would not provide adequate support.  they seem to work well enough in the reels that i've serviced. 
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
eldoradoman
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 27


« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 04:25:12 PM »

Alan...my first choice would be a stack of AR bearings as well on any of the models.  I just meant instead of using the big spacers on the BX models I would opt for the HFL1426 bearing with the built-in side needle bearings. 
Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 18576



« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2015, 04:30:41 PM »

i understand the concern about lack of support in the AR bearings, it's just that i've worked with them for quite a while and my sense of it is that these AR bearing provide enough support to get the job done.  i just don't feel like they are flopping around enough to cause the AR bearing to fail.  and that would be the end point - failure of the AR bearing. 
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
Robert Janssen
Sensei
Member
***
Online Online

Posts: 795


« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2015, 04:36:19 PM »

Hmm... terminology glitch; might as well clarify that for future readers:

"AR Bearings" are not bearings at all. They aren't meant to, and do not bear loads well. They are more correctly termed roller clutches.

A bearing is a support, used to bear a load. A rotating load, in this case. A bearing can be of several types. With balls for instance, called a ball bearing, or needles, called a needle bearing, or just a plain one, called a plain bearing.

Plain bearing: Is also sometimes called a bushing. Can be made of bronze, oilite, or plastic for example.

Spacer: Is probably not a spacer at all, but a plastic plain bearing to support the load of the shaft so the roller clutch can do its job well, and that is why Accurate put them in there.

Properly designed roller clutch arrangements should have bearings supporting the shaft. Some roller clutches have built-in bearings, as was noted above.

There we go...

Alan, you're quite right about that... they do seem to function normally. However, that just isn't the way it was meant to be done.

.
Logged
alantani
admin
Administrator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 18576



« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2015, 04:50:19 PM »

yeah, i've been THERE before! Grin
Logged

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.182 seconds with 18 queries.