Left Handed First Generation Senators

Started by Tightlines667, April 04, 2015, 10:52:02 PM

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Tightlines667

Can someome clarify for me the bridge config. on left handed first generation Senators?  Does the bridge housing remain forward of centerline, and free spool lever remain aft? 

Also, I am curious what year penn transitioned from the origional (1938) tail plate picture of the jumping sailfish to the more modern tailplate picture on the 4/0.  Maybe around the same time gearbox config. changed (1948) and/or part numbers became commonplace on these models (1948-50ish)?

I know the 4/0 retained internal drags through its first gen. 

I can see, as Mike states in his book, "...it is very difficult to put a specific year to post-war generation Senators..." 

Just trying to fill in a few blanks, since I didn't find much about first gen. left handed Senators in the book, other then what I gleaned...

-All first Senator models were offered in left hand models from their model's year of introduction throughout their production years
-Price was always +$2 (except first 2 years 115L was +$2.50)
-Except for this case, there was no change in model number for left-handed models for first gen Senators 4/0 and larger
-In  1949 all larger (4/0 up, second gen, left-handed models were designated with a "LH" in the model number
-In 1950 the 3 smaller ones followed suit (Also price changed to +$1 for LH)

*Please feel free to correct any of the above info., if it is erronous.

When looking at a modern left handed Senator's gearbox location it can be seen to mirror that of its right-handed counterpart.  Am I safe to assume this was also likely the case throughout the first Gen. Senator lineup?

Just trying to clarify a few missing links in Mike's great Penn resource book...soon to be refured to by the layman as..

THE PENN BIBLE
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Superhook

Mike's at work so it's a free for all with no smacks.  ;D ...till he gets back.

I believe there are no specially moulded Senator side plates for LH only a modified RH plate for the early Senators. The Gear bridge with sleeve , pinion & main gears and positioning of the dog were the internal mods .The moulding was the same , only the logo changed at some stage. The thread on the star drag could be LH thread too.

Photo courtesy of Bruce Davis


As the same moulding was used for both L&R when the LH senator is swung around 180 degrees ( compared to the fit of a RH reel to a rod)  the crank is behind the centre line.
At $2.00 for the changes to the position of dog & spring (Requiring removing material of side plate ) and the new manufacturing of LH parts for a limited demand it was good value for the buyer .



Tightlines667

Thank you for clarifying that.  So, because left handed senators use a modified right side plate (same mold), the gearbox on first gen left handed models is actually behind centerline.

Any idea on when the origional tailplate picture for the 4/0 changed?
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Penn Chronology

Interesting, no matter how many questions I tried to answer with my book, there are still stones left unturned. left hand questions can be endless. When Penn finally settled on how to make a universal side plate, they saved themselves a lot of converting.

Early Penn side plates were build like this for a right hand drive reel:


If you specified a left hand drive reels, Penn created that by hand, as Ray stated and you have a product like this:


The difference is the right hand drive reel dog rode on the top of the anti-reverse gear and the spring pushed the dog down against the gear. Left hand drive was created by reworking the head plate and the spring position. A spring was curled around the dog and mounted into it, causing the dog to ride on the lower portion of the anti-reverse gear with the spring pushing the dog up into the gear. Off hand, I do not know when the light bulb lite in the Penn thinking hat and they moved to dog to that other side of the head plate creating universal plates.

It is more easy to see how much material was removed from the side plate and the long odd dog sping for left hand conversions. The slight amount of material left on the side plate to support the spring made the reel significantly weaker.


Nothing was done to the outside of early left hand reels. Externally all was the same, you simply placed the reel on the rod with the handle on the left side. Drag was tightened by pulling it back ward, free spool lever moved forward instead of aft. The left hand reel back in the early days needed much help.


So, a early first gen Senator left hand reel was simply turned around the same this Bay Head was. I would think that the left hand duel purpose plates came after the war, but that is a guess. I have to look into that a bit deeper.

In my next book, which cover the same time span, there is a chapter on Left Hand drive reels. As left hand drive reels advanced, all the rotating internals were changed to make a much more ergonomic left hand reel.

Keta

Is there any record of LH 349 reels?  I have one that uses a 15-349LH AR dog and a coil spring like used in Jigmasters.  It's a double lever black sideplate reel and everything else is the same as a RH one.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Tightlines667

Mike,

Thank you for expanding on the topic!  Interesting stuff.  I will have to keep an eye out for left-handed first gen senators. 
Hope springs eternal
for the consumate fishermen.

Penn Chronology

QuoteIs there any record of LH 349 reels?  I have one that uses a 15-349LH AR dog and a coil spring like used in Jigmasters.  It's a double lever black sideplate reel and everything else is the same as a RH one

Sure , but not for a few years until after it was introduced. The Model 349 (great reel in my opinion) was introduced in 1957. The left hand version was not mentioned in the catalogs until 1963, after that it was a regular option for the model.

Alto Mare

Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

Keta

Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Big Tim

I have a line on a new in box 9/0 lefty...I'm not sure of the value of such a reel ? Any help would be appreciated.

Tim

Superhook

It would depend on age. Is it 1936-46 First generation as the heading of post was started?

Big Tim

Later version.1980/90's I haven't seen the reel but was told it has the box that has the metal support strips on the side..I hope to have it in my hand later this week.

Tim

Penn Chronology

QuoteI have a line on a new in box 9/0 lefty...I'm not sure of the value of such a reel ? Any help would be appreciated.

I have a "Rule of Thumb" when it come to valuing a left hand drive reel. What ever the value of a right hand model would be, just add 50% for the value of the left hand model. So if your 9/0 is worth $100, a left hand 9/0 is worth $150. That is a guideline that works generally well. I believe that because left hand reels are made in much lower numbers and as time goes on, as a model is retired, it become more and more difficult to find a left hand version of the reel, simple because of scarcity.

Big Tim

Thank you. I always like to enter a conversation with some knowledge