113 hn baja special

[Keta]

they fixed it and sent it back.now he has to send it back again.

It's a QC issue. Not a design issue after 15 years of actual real world use with no issues. The design has landed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of AJs, YT and Tuna.

If it was a design issue it would have come up....about 14 years ago.

I agree the warn out die is the problem but it exposed a weakness in the AR system.  Stronger AR springs could be a cure.  I still feel it's a minor problem that shows up when pushing a reel with rounded AR ratchet too hard.   I would not hesitate to buy one.

[johndtuttle]

they fixed it and sent it back.now he has to send it back again.

It's a QC issue. Not a design issue after 15 years of actual real world use with no issues. The design has landed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of AJs, YT and Tuna.

If it was a design issue it would have come up....about 14 years ago.

I agree the warn out die is the problem but it exposed a weakness in the AR system.  Stronger AR springs could be a cure.  I still feel it's a minor problem that shows up when pushing a reel with rounded AR ratchet too hard.   I would not hesitate to buy one.

Yep, we are on the same page here. The design is sound, it simply didn't account for a worn die (or some such production issue) being used 15 years later causing trouble.

I pm'd Steve Carson and he will ask Penn to give us an update on Monday.

[Keta]

If he wants to have him contact me about it too.

[Alto Mare]

Stamped parts get rounded on one side from the process, I don't believe the issue is related to a worn die, but you never know .

[johndtuttle]

Stamped parts get rounded on one side from the process, I don't believe the issue is related to a worn die, but you never know .

As I understand it, Sal, the die gets more and more worn leading to more and more round edges (and a pointier tip), but to be sure this is speculation.

What we know is that "design flaws" do not show up after 15 years of daily use around the world...production flaws however can show up at any time be they springs, dogs or ratchets.

[Alto Mare]

Stamped parts get rounded on one side from the process, I don't believe the issue is related to a worn die, but you never know .

As I understand it, Sal, the die gets more and more worn leading to more and more round edges (and a pointier tip), but to be sure this is speculation.

What we know is that "design flaws" do not show up after 15 years of daily use around the world...production flaws however can show up at any time be they springs, dogs or ratchets.

Oh, I thought you guys were talking about the rounded edge being there. Wouldn't it get less rounded as the part wears though?
I've mentioned in the very beginning the ratchet would probably be better cut instead of stamped, that would give nice sharp full teeth.
I'm sure penn will figure this one out, I have no doubts.

[Keta]

The AR ratchets I have seen show more rounding than one would expect from a new die set.  Punching does tend to round a metal like SS but not that much.  I'd rather see them and the AR dogs investment cast out of 400 series SS rather than cut.

[Alto Mare]

The AR ratchets I have seen show more rounding than one would expect from a new die set.  Punching does tend to round a metal like SS but not that much.  I'd rather see them and the AR dogs investment cast out of 400 series SS rather than cut.

All custom stamped parts that I've been testing have a rounded edge, the ones that have been cut have none.
Some parts are better with a rounded edge, some are not. The yoke works much better on the clutch assembly, due to its rounded edge,but the ratchet would do much better without and so would the dogs.

[Keta]

Yup!

[broschro]

Thank you guys for getting to the bottom of this i will let my buddy know.

[Penn]

Guys,

My name is Tony I work at PENN in the Philadelphia offices.  My title is PENN Product Specialist.  You will see me post frequently on some of the other fishing forums as well in case anyone was wondering.  I reached out to Alan and confirmed if it was OK for us to create an account and post, he approved.
We wanted to let everyone know that we realize this issue is serious and is not going un-noticed, we had multiple people including the PENN Brand Manager, Director of Engineering, Quality, etc. read this thread.  As we speak, we are running anti-reverse bench testing on a US Senator.  We need someone to confirm that the a/r issues that you guys are seeing are happening on the US Senator or only the Baja's?   In May of 2014 prior to the 1st  production build of the US Senators we switched to a brass ratchet that we flatten in a press to provide better engagement.  The older Baja reels used a stainless ratchet.  There was a run of 113HN reels that had a bowed stainless ratchet due to a worn die, it was corrected as soon as possible.
We would like to see an example if anyone has a US Senator with a/r issues.  We will of course replace your reel with a new one. 

[foakes]

First Class company!

Doing what is right!

Thanks, Penn, Tony, and others involved...

Best,

Fred

[steelfish]

this shows the customer service class 1 on Penn.

so, Tony, mostly we are talking about the Baja Special, not many guys have the US Senator.
can you say something about your plans to make the whole AR system (rachet, dogs, springs) stronger or more reliable?
we arent against paying for getting updated parts from the Penn Factory.

[Penn]

Steel,

We feel that the current design works as it should with a properly flattened brass ratchet.  The ENG team is taking this issue seriously and if any changes are in the works I will be sure to update everyone here.  

tony

[JoePlo]

I have sent my Baja Special to Lee to have a look at. I know that the reel has chewed through 2 sets of dogs. Really interested to see how this goes. I will ask around to friends with the US Senators if they have had similar issues.