alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial "Carbontex loss of Power" Question
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Author Topic: "Carbontex loss of Power" Question  (Read 5093 times)
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JOHN I
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« on: May 11, 2015, 06:15:08 PM »

Hi Guys- I just did the drags w/ greased Carbontex on my 338 and 454 (G-332-F and 454-5) and the 332 is great and i can get better than 18lbs. before a very smooth slip. I can only get 11lbs from the 454 before the star bottoming out on the side plate. I read the post about adding a 3-16/3-18 washer to get the star away from the side plate and actually found a brass washer that was a perfect fit and .031 thick. With the addition of the washer 18lbs.when maxed out.  As the water seal bushing is brass, will I be OK using it or should I fit the stock Delrin thrust washer as recommended? I cant fully back the drag off with the additional washer and the handle feels a little "stiff" with the drag cranked down. I think I'm missing something here. Thanks for the replies and an outstanding forum.
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Keta
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 06:39:25 PM »

Are the ears of the top eared washer out of place and catching on the main gear?
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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alantani
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 07:11:31 PM »

if you're getting enough drag, then call it good!  and welcome!!!!
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JOHN I
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2015, 07:34:13 PM »

Thanks for the welcome Alan. Grin
Everything seemed to be in place correctly but I'm going to tear it down again to make sure. I'm going to think the brass is OK then?
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Keta
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2015, 07:40:03 PM »

Thanks for the welcome Alan. Grin
Everything seemed to be in place correctly but I'm going to tear it down again to make sure. I'm going to think the brass is OK then?

Yes, brass washers are OK.  I have some SS Newell spacer washers if you decide to use them.
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 08:13:45 PM »

I have found that 400 series full spool can get about 10-15% less drag than the 300 series due to the OD of the spool until the line is pulled out to the same diameter of the 300 series reels.  I'm sure there is a bunch of physics involved, but I'm brain dead at them moment as to the actual calculations why.  It has to do with ratios of the drag surface are in comparison to the OD of the spool.
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
Keta
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 08:23:17 PM »

Think of a lever.
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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JOHN I
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 06:39:15 AM »

Everything is in its appropriate place. I tried adding a Delrin washer on top of the stack under the spring washer and there was no difference. When tightened down without really putting some man on it, it is producing 14-15 lbs. REALLY cranking down got it to 20. These numbers are totally acceptable and I don't think I'll ever have to crank it down to look for more than I'm currently getting but seeing others getting 25lb.+ made me wonder why I wasn't. I love my Newells but as Alan has said they are not modern lever drags and should not be expected to perform as such.
Bryan-The filled spool diameter (lever) observation makes perfect sense much to the same that it is easier to take up line with more on the spool.
Lee- Thank you for making the stainless washers available should I need them.
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foakes
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 06:47:32 AM »

Welcome, John --

Good job of reasoning things out and becoming comfortable with your equipment.

Lots of help on here!

Since the vast majority of your fishing will target a drag range of 25% to 80% -- there should be little need to back the star out all of the way.

You are getting good numbers -- go catch some fish and show us the pics!

Best,

Fred
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Tunacious
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 09:23:36 AM »

In my 'oh so simple mind'  Shocked, the main reason to use the 5+1 drag system from Bryan is to no longer have to max out the star. There may be something to the physics of wider spools...I don't know. The bearings used on all 2/3/4 models are identical. What concerns me in your description of the problem is that you say 'your handle gets stiff' when your drag is maxed out. This shouldn't be happening.

Much of the time, one has to experiment with the 3-18 (or other) washers to ensure you install the correct number. On some of my Newells, I only have one 3-18 sitting on top of the drag spacer while some of them have up to three. IMHO, you should never have to max out your drag in order to get 25+ lbs of drag on Bryans 5+1 system. When I tested mine, I was able to get 25 lbs for sure but I could have gotten more...I just never tested for more. When I got 25 lbs, my star was not close to being maxed out. The drags also release completely when the star is backed off all the way. Are you using a Newell belville spring or a Penn? In my experience, the Penn spreads out the drag area of the washers better. This will help with the amount of drag you're getting. It also sits a tad higher than the Newell.

Experiment until you find the right combination.

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Keta
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 12:11:03 PM »

Width does not change anything, spool diameter does.
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
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« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 02:27:38 PM »

Spool diameter is the key. Lets say you have a full spool and you have 15 lb of drag. Let a bunch of line out and then the spool diameter gets smaller and drag force goes up but I can't calculate it. You may jump to 18 or 20. I do know for a fact that my 338 will get 32 lb of drag with Bryan's drag disc and that is not locked down. So if a 400 with the identical gear and drag stack lets out enough line to the size of a 338 then you should hit 32 lbs of drag.

With my Newell 500s I can lift a 40 lb weight off the ground. The systems work.
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Tunacious
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2015, 09:10:37 AM »

That's true re the spool diameter and drag. The less line on your spool, the more drag you have...that's true for any diameter spool. I know I've had to back off my drag on occasion (P322) when half my line is off my spool. I was more addressing his concern for not being able to back off the drag completely and the tightening of his handle.
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Keta
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2015, 09:21:16 AM »

I try to set up my personal reels so there is a slight amount of pressure on the stack when the star is backed off all of the way.
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Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain
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