Torque 300 AR bearing.

[Tightlines667]

Interestimg and inovative solution to a problem that is likely more commonplace then I would have thought.  Where do you find this stuff?  Good work!  Interesting how the author also considers/addresses reduction of axial load on the gear sleeve/ratchet/ar dog assembly.  Support of the gear sleeve at the side plate definately adds strength.

[johndtuttle]

Interestimg and inovative solution to a problem that is likely more commonplace then I would have thought.  Where do you find this stuff?  Good work!  Interesting how the author also considers/addresses reduction of axial load on the gear sleeve/ratchet/ar dog assembly.  Support of the gear sleeve at the side plate definately adds strength.

Well, the Abu Garcia guys are Muskie guys hardcore and this is probably a problem they encountered in their own fishing. Big girl diving under the boat and not being able to back off the drag leading to tragedy.... .

I got a hold of a pre-production Revo Toro Beast (their new big bait caster for heavy baits and salt) that I am working on for a "First Look/Sneak Peakie before they are available.... I contacted Abu-Garcia with questions and Patrik Svensson (one of the patent holders) responded .

In a Nutshell, the AR Sleeve is actually fixed axially (though it can rotate and is bearing supported) and the Gear Shaft is what actually moves up and down the tiny bit necessary. As the gear shaft is independent of the IAR mechanism by moving it you can reduce the drag regardless of the load on the AR Sleeve.

[nelz]

Another reason why good 'ol dogs are better than IAR bearings.

[johndtuttle]

Another reason why good 'ol dogs are better than IAR bearings.

Well, that argument can be made! 

But I can't find anyone that wants to fish braid with only mechanical dogs. Too much ka-hcunk due to the low stretch.

Remember, these reels are for casting, casting, casting all day long. Braid allows for a smaller, lighter reel and an IAR is kinda required for most people to fish braid and for most people fishing large artificial lures that require erratic retrieves.



best

[richard]

   Apologies for delay in replying---I spent the weekend fly fishing for Carp.
   Johndtuttle--thank you for coming up with all that patent info,very interesting indeed.
   I am glad that it wasn't just my imagination,and that you have found other reels
   that have similar problems with the AR bearing.
   I am going to try fish-aholic's advice and smooth out the inner clutch sleeve, so that it might
   slide a fraction.The outer "fluted" sleeve is already smooth and greased but still wont slide under pressure.
   TBH since Johndtuttle has researched this subject and highlighted the problem with other reels as well,i am not
   expecting miracles here.
   Im with nelz on this.,Scrap the AR bearing and replace with a normal one-like the Baja special.
   The torque has a lovely pair of AR dogs that it does not really use.If we want less handle backplay make the dogs alternate like said Baja.
   Put me down as one person who would be be happy to fish with a little handle backplay and a more predictable drag. .
   I have lost a yellowfin and a decent wahoo when I could not back off the drag when they ran under the boat.
   Also the thread stripped on one of the stars----which MIGHT have been caused by trying to add drag when a running fish
   had the rod bent and the AR locked.
   Thanks to Alan Tani and you guys for providing advice like this.
   
   

[nelz]

Richard - stripped the gear sleeve? Wow, sounds like you fish some very heavy drag settings!

IMHO, smoothing out the inner clutch sleeve will be counter productive to your issue, you'll never get it back to its original state, better to just get a new one instead.

The thought just occurred to me however, that dulling the finish on a new sleeve might help prevent slipping, hmm...

[Fish-aholic]

IMHO, smoothing out the inner clutch sleeve will be counter productive to your issue, you'll never get it back to its original state, better to just get a new one instead.

You'd do well to ruin the inner clutch sleeve from using fine grade wet & dry (800+).   IMO, smoothening the inner (keyed) surfaces can only help minimise the binding friction against the drive shaft rather than be counterproductive.  

I think John has hit the nail on the head with his suggestion of how the lubed rollers within the IAR bearing take grasp of the clutch sleeve. That's 8 added points of contact for the sleeve to ride up against.

Here's a suggestion of how to overcome this binding phenomena;

When you have backed off the star wheel to achieve less drag, clamp thumb on spool and make one rotation of the handle. During rotation you will feel the drag immediately lessen.  

   

[richard]

nelz........max drag used was about 15lbs,usually about 10 to 12lbs.The shaft has a square section where it goes through the AR bearing,this means it is threaded on the CORNERS ONLY (ie much less thread than a normal senator shaft for the star to rotate on) Iv'e probably tried to add more drag when the AR was locked on a fish,putting more strain on these small threads.(the replacement shaft made no difference to the original problem.)


Fish-aholic....Yup ive tried backing the star,say a quarter turn and then just as you wind the handle the AR unlocks and the drag goes on to this new setting. It works but if you back the star a fraction too much
you get an overrun...........a bloody thumb.........a lost fish..........and a strong urge to fish the rusty old 113 again

[richard]

  Just an update......
                               Remove AR bearing and slide out sleeve that holds AR rollers.
     Cut out all of the little plastic springs with a craft knife ,and re-assemble.
     The bearing still supports the handle but without the side load that locks the shaft under drag pressure.
     The star can be gradually released ,with the drag stack responding normally for the same reason.
     There is noticeably less pressure on the star when adding drag with a fish pulling(than when the sleeve was locked)
     The reel now relies on the excellent double AR dogs which is fine by me.....especially as the handle used to "creep" backwards
      under load anyway , until the dog AR kicked in!!!  (very high gear ratio working against weak AR bearing?)
      Love the old Torque 300 now , its had a few months wahoo jigging with no problems so far, and I didn't even notice the handle slack.
      Not for everyone perhaps ,but worked for me