Overhauling a gold trinidad 16 and now static magged

[CapeFish]

nice job on the trini. I have experienced the opposite Jeri, I recently got rid of the centrifugals on my old silver Saltist 30h and had them replaced with a static mag (it can be adjusted by removing magnets or shifting them) and it has transformed the reel, casting distance and ease has markedly improved.

[Jeri]

Hi Capefish,

I'm sure your reel is possibly casting better with the static magnet braking, as any system that controls or moderates the spool speed according to the casters skill – will improve the performance/

My first point was that static magnet systems are little better than centrifugal braking systems – both are static in their ability to be adjusted during the actual cast. The point is that either system can be adjusted by adding or removing magnets or brake blocks – but only by opening the reel cover – slightly difficult during a cast?

A point often missed with centrifugal braking systems, is that people think that the balance of the spool would be disrupted by having an odd number of brake blocks, and folks won't go down to perhaps just one brake block for fear of upsetting the balance – when in fact 1 block, or even ½ block can be a very effective way of achieving fine tuning to moderate spool speed – which is what either system is doing. Static magnets or brake blocks are dampening speed across the entire range of the spool speed, and putting a limitation on both acceleration and top speed.

The big point here, which a lot of folks miss when tuning such reels for distance casting – is that the most important factor is not top speed, but acceleration – the period from 0 rpm up to maximum rpm. Which is exactly why tournament casters that have developed their reels for absolute maximum performance will change out bearing to the fastest running ceramic, reduce spool weight and other refinement to get as close as possible to the lowest possible inertia values for the very beginning of the cast – without any braking what so ever. Once the spool is away and flying, then with minor adjustments of their refined magnetic controls, they will avoid loose coils on the spool, by fine adjustments top the magnets during the flight of the sinker. Then as the whole cast starts to wind down, and the sinker starts to go into 'deceleration mode', they will further add spool braking on the adjustable magnets.

This is exactly why adjustable magnetic controls are built into casting reels by manufacturers – the fact that the reel can be adjusted externally by their customer without the benefit of using a screwdriver. So, for the general fisherman, they can adjust braking according to the variable needs of the conditions, and further adjust according to their casting skills, and ven during the cast. The manufacturers would love the much cheaper option of static magnets if the market would tolerate such a system, they would certainly increase their profitability on those reels, if they just had to glue a couple of magnets in – instead of the obviously more costly adjustable systems.

A reel you are familiar with – Shimano Trinidad DC, wouldn't Shimano have been happier sticking some static magnets in the side cover, rather than developing that very complex adjustable electromagnetic braking system they put in that reel?? Much cheaper as well!!

We sell a lot of reels to anglers for surf casting, and have reels that are so fast, that we actually test the angler's skill at using one, before we sell one of those models, as only very skilled anglers are up to the task of mastering some of the seriously fast reels that can be used for surf casting. Better that folks buy something that they can actually manage, rather than sell them something they will struggle with forever. When we first started selling Avets, folks over-estimated their skills levels, and bought them from us, and not long after there were a lot of Avets being sold on the second hand market, as they anglers had not been able to cope with the awesome speeds that the reels can produce – but some mastered the reels and gained huge distance benefits.

Even now we offer a service to new customers to help them tune and refine their new reels to a state that they can control the reels, whether this is through brake block changes or even in some cases thicker oil in the bearings. The point is to adjust the speed to the reel to the skills level of the angler, and preserve as much potential acceleration as possible.


Just my personal 2 cents worth.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[steelfish]

thanks Capefish, I have experienced the same on my saltist 20h, any kind of additional help on casting will be better for us not pro skilled casters.


Jeri,
Im 100% agree on everything you said, I actually made the static mag on the trini cuz I was bored on a sunday and I need to have my hands on a reel even if Im not fishing LOL.
maybe I need to have experience on casting irons really far from a boat with a 9' or 10' jigstick and get the most distance I can achieve, but since 90% of the time I fish on a small panga boat here at Baja (sea of cortez), we dont have the need to cast really far the jigs or irons, as long as you get the jig 40-50 mts away from you, let it sink and retrieve is a good technique over here.
when I was starting fishing few years ago, I learned to cast on a jigmaster 500 and 505hs and sealine 40xha, the only cast control with them was Thumb-control on the lip of the spool or directly on the line, so the trini, torium, fathom, calcutta are really easier to cast all stock the those old penn reels.
my trini, the baja special, the saltist 20h are never used on surf fishing so, no need for external mag knobs on them, although the saltist 20h is a good candidate for an external mag knob, I used it to from the rocks but then I got an abu 6500c3 and a 7000i and the saltist went for inshore fishing from a boat.

look at this mod bit more like a "fool-proof cast aid" than a scientific method to improve jig casting, I will leave that for the reel factories and hardcore surf casters.

saludos and its always great to have this kind of hugh knowleage participation

[CapeFish]

Hi Capefish,

I'm sure your reel is possibly casting better with the static magnet braking, as any system that controls or moderates the spool speed according to the casters skill – will improve the performance/

My first point was that static magnet systems are little better than centrifugal braking systems – both are static in their ability to be adjusted during the actual cast. The point is that either system can be adjusted by adding or removing magnets or brake blocks – but only by opening the reel cover – slightly difficult during a cast?

A point often missed with centrifugal braking systems, is that people think that the balance of the spool would be disrupted by having an odd number of brake blocks, and folks won't go down to perhaps just one brake block for fear of upsetting the balance – when in fact 1 block, or even ½ block can be a very effective way of achieving fine tuning to moderate spool speed – which is what either system is doing. Static magnets or brake blocks are dampening speed across the entire range of the spool speed, and putting a limitation on both acceleration and top speed.

The big point here, which a lot of folks miss when tuning such reels for distance casting – is that the most important factor is not top speed, but acceleration – the period from 0 rpm up to maximum rpm. Which is exactly why tournament casters that have developed their reels for absolute maximum performance will change out bearing to the fastest running ceramic, reduce spool weight and other refinement to get as close as possible to the lowest possible inertia values for the very beginning of the cast – without any braking what so ever. Once the spool is away and flying, then with minor adjustments of their refined magnetic controls, they will avoid loose coils on the spool, by fine adjustments top the magnets during the flight of the sinker. Then as the whole cast starts to wind down, and the sinker starts to go into 'deceleration mode', they will further add spool braking on the adjustable magnets.

This is exactly why adjustable magnetic controls are built into casting reels by manufacturers – the fact that the reel can be adjusted externally by their customer without the benefit of using a screwdriver. So, for the general fisherman, they can adjust braking according to the variable needs of the conditions, and further adjust according to their casting skills, and ven during the cast. The manufacturers would love the much cheaper option of static magnets if the market would tolerate such a system, they would certainly increase their profitability on those reels, if they just had to glue a couple of magnets in – instead of the obviously more costly adjustable systems.

A reel you are familiar with – Shimano Trinidad DC, wouldn't Shimano have been happier sticking some static magnets in the side cover, rather than developing that very complex adjustable electromagnetic braking system they put in that reel?? Much cheaper as well!!

We sell a lot of reels to anglers for surf casting, and have reels that are so fast, that we actually test the angler's skill at using one, before we sell one of those models, as only very skilled anglers are up to the task of mastering some of the seriously fast reels that can be used for surf casting. Better that folks buy something that they can actually manage, rather than sell them something they will struggle with forever. When we first started selling Avets, folks over-estimated their skills levels, and bought them from us, and not long after there were a lot of Avets being sold on the second hand market, as they anglers had not been able to cope with the awesome speeds that the reels can produce – but some mastered the reels and gained huge distance benefits.

Even now we offer a service to new customers to help them tune and refine their new reels to a state that they can control the reels, whether this is through brake block changes or even in some cases thicker oil in the bearings. The point is to adjust the speed to the reel to the skills level of the angler, and preserve as much potential acceleration as possible.


Just my personal 2 cents worth.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Jeri,
Great post, thanks for sharing. I fully understand what you are saying, but I also need something that works for me when I go fishing and I have found that I could rarely use a centrifugal system without thumbing and that causes the most distance loss. I would happily have a Trinidad DC system in all my reels, but alas that's not going to happen. I also can't see myself fiddling with an adjustable knobby mag while standing up to my armpits in the surf. So the static has been a revelation for me, on two of my reels I have shifted the magnets to make them run faster. The others came back just perfect from the guy that fitted them. I tried them in really bad conditions, probably a 40knot wind head on wind and got remarkable distance and no overwinds.

Cheers,

Leon

[Jeri]

Hi Leon,

I don't doubt that static magnets work for some folks, and I totally appreciate the point about wading – we do the same here in Namibia.

With centrifugal braking systems in southern Africa, people just pull out the brake blocks at first service, then struggle with the reel or wind in the spool float knob – that certainly slows the reel down – but they will never get distance.

The fact that they don't appreciate that you can fine tune a reel with the blocks, either by adding or removing or even doubling up is a shame, as it is a very good method of getting reels under control for the less skilled casters. The same is achieved with static magnets. At this point in the discussion, I can't see the point of everyone looking to increase the speed of their reels to the point where they have to then introduce an expensive system to slow it all down again???

The other option that we have been using a lot – especially for reels that are going to purposely be used for wading, it to pack the bearings with grease, as well as remove brake blocks. It has got to the point where a lot of competition anglers now have specific rod and reel set up, purely for wading. And with this set up there is the benefit of the bearings lasting longer due the immersion problems – the grease protects the bearings and also slows the reel down a fair bit, which is what folks are looking for when wading, as footing and wave action cause instability for the caster – another source of poor casting.

The same guys will have a different set up for 'off the beach', as with the more modern designs of blanks, and the very fast tip recovery speeds, reels with very fast spin speeds are needed to get the optimum out of the rods. The point is to allow the line off the reel fast enough to cope with the speed of the sinker, and the new designs of blanks are creating hugely increased sinker speeds. The point we are getting to in long distance surf angling, is that folks need a seriously fast reel to get the whole package working – braking the reel is just a step backwards. But, get it right, as we have folks dropping smallish baits at 200 metres off the beach. In surf casting, the reel needs to take the secondary position – to compliment the rod.

I can foresee a time in the coming years, where we will see guys tuning their externally controlled magnets during the flight of the sinker, just to maximise the distances that will be achieved. The rods are already available, just we don't have the anglers with the right casting techniques to warrant it at this time. But as the competition brigade strive for ever more distance to reach the fish first, then surf fishing will evolve further.

Just my personal 2 cents worth.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[CapeFish]

Jeri,
you guys are in a league of your own, I doubt anyone in Cape Town can even sniff 200m. I am hoping to get small baits in the 150m range on good days with my magged reels now and one of the other reasons why I had it done was that I am planning to shift to casting braid and am now pretty confident I can do that. My other reels had no brake system at all so the mags have made a tremendous difference.

Keep us posted on your progress, you are pushing the boundaries. Steelfish, sorry for hijacking your post!

Cheers,
Leon

[Jeri]

Hi Loen,

Switch to braid and a grinder, and get a decent rod, and you will be consistently dropping baits at 150m, our best 'grinder' guys are dropping at 190-200m for Spotted Gully sharks and Kob.

The other strange thing is they have all gone down from 7oz to 5 & 6oz, and it is exceeding their wildest expectations. There is something about the ballistics of distance casting that offers maximum distance with 5.5oz.

Even as an 'olden' – nearly eligible for 'grand master' selection, I'm dropping baits to 150 metres, and only using 30lb braid. My wife slightly older than I, is dropping baits at 120 metres, 30lb braid, 5oz sinker and a very good rod, teamed up with an Ultegra 4500.

Her previous best was 100 metres with a Torium 14, with just 4 of the 6 brake blocks in play.


Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

[steelfish]

Damn guys, you are talking about getting your bait on 150mt and 200mts that aaaaaaaalot!!!

I was happy with my 90-100 mts that I get with my rainshadow 1505 and abu 6500c3 casting 5oz on 50# braid, according what I just read I will soon get me a 30# braid and try to cast again those 4oz with a shock leader, too bad the best fish I can get from the beach is a 4# corvina or a 5# triggerfish, the best fishes in Baja are 12hrs drive south at the very bottom of Baja, in Cabo and La Paz.

Leon, Dont worry as long as the conversation keep this level of knowleage its all good.

Jeri, we need to have a proper thread for Distance casting.
I love distance casting from the beach, hence I bought the rainshadow black and have me a custom build surf rod for achieve the most distance I can, the sad part that kind of stopped me from learning more is that locally I wont be catching more fishes if I put my bait 10-30 mts more than my current distance which is an average of 90-100mts.
I used to cast with a saltist 20h with "speed X" oil on the bearings (with no magnets) just using the different red/black blocks on the centrifugal brake, but there are only triggerfish in my beaches LOL, few corvinas and really small rays and that's it, , then I found the abu reels and relay the saltist 20h to boat use only and added 2 static mags on it, panga boats are kind of small, they move a lot on the sea, they dont have the stability of the modern sport boats.

for the corvinas season when they can be as big as 8#, I better take my medium combo, which is a 10ft fenwick HMX surf rod and cast 2oz spoons with the same abu 6500, Im getting 70-80mts on that setup but I think I dont need more.