drag pressure versus temperature for greased carbon fiber drags

[Tiddlerbasher]

More drag = More friction = More heat laws of physics. It would definitely be worth running your test again Alan - but with dry drags. With most 'liquids' There is an effect (meniscus effect) that happens to the aspherites (surface irregularities) at molecular level. This can cause more friction = more heat. Once the grease reaches its dropping point friction could start to decrease ie less drag. That's why 'dry' results could be very interesting.
My own tests, on my line spooler drag, did not produce a significant temperature rise. The drag tower is a 10x3x2" chunk of aluminium with 3x1/4" discs bolted to it. A star drag reel does not have the same capability to dissipate the heat. Your results could be very interesting

[Alto Mare]

More drag = More friction = More heat laws of physics.

I agree! but in my case I mentioned the two reels were pulling the same weight. No additional drag was needed and yet the handle turned with much less effort on the reel with higher drag numbers capability. I would think less effort, more smoothness = less heat build up, but what do I know .

[Tiddlerbasher]

Did both reels have the delrin washers?

[Alto Mare]

Yes, all my reels have a delrin washer for under the gear. The reel with the insert might have had two, one for under the gear and one on top, but I'm not sure about the one on top of the stack.
These reels had different system with the gears, one had the insert and one was stock.

[Shark Hunter]

Pretty Innovative boss.
Sal's Idea of a temp gun would work well as it heats up.
I have one you can use.

[alantani]

it might just be brake fade, as you describe.  gotta repeat this with dry drags next.  the drag has to be measured as a function of temperature.  i'll bet that's the key!

[Keta]

no, but a dry drag test would be a good idea!!!

Yup.

[basto]

So maybe if we could make the surface area of the carbontex washers twice the size of the metal drag washers, the heat would have more area to dissipate into...kinda like the increased surface area on a fluted target rifle barrel cools more quickly because of the bigger surface area.

[FatTuna]

Interesting.  What this tells me is that maybe it is not necessary to loosen the drag when a big fish is taking line against the drag.  If this happens all the time when the drags heat up then the reel self adjusts the drag.  When the fish tires and you start to gain line pouring cool water on the reel should bring your drag back to where it was to start. What do you think fellow members?  Dominick

Interesting video and good post.

This video demonstrates the relationship between friction, heat, and drag but it doesn't factor in decreasing spool diameter. I think the decrease in spool diameter has a more significant overall influence on the drag in the real world. Although, I can't say for certain how heat would affect the drag after an excessively long battle. Nevertheless, I typically increase the drag pressure when a fish is taking a lot of line.

If the line is getting low, an angler really only has three options: one is to increase the drag hoping to slow down the fish and quickly gain back line. Two, is to chase down the fish in the boat. Three, is to back off the drag with line preservation in mind and hope that the fish doesn't take all the line.

My technique is to judge the fish on the fly. I'll preset the drag and won't touch it unless the fish proves itself. Once hooked up and off the ball, we will chase it down. If the fish is taking a lot of line, I will progressively click up the drag one notch at a time until I can slow it down. After I've gotten some line back, I will bring it down right below strike. Even fishing a big reel, while chasing it down, with heavy drag, I've almost gotten spooled a few times.

Can't catch a fish if you don't have any line left..... Can't catch a fish with a pulled hook or a broken line either...... I guess you have to pick your poison.

I think what's more important is to plan before you get into a situation where you won't be able to land the fish. I feel it's important to select a reel that is big enough to handle the largest fish you are likely to encounter because you can't go back in time and do it over.

My two cents.

[alantani]

yeah, just trying to work with as few variables at a time as i can!   

[CapeFish]

at some point, you have to get that fish to the gaff.  if this fish can rip out 400 to 500 yards of line, your reel will be so hot and you'll loose so much drag that you will not get it back.  not unless you throw the rod into the water (attached to a backup, of course).  if you are able to get the fish up to the boat, then chances are you never heated it up to begin with. 

the problem is see is these prolonged fights where you have a stand off.  you have to know what your drag pressures are at all times, and you have to be able to adjust your drag settings.  you can do this blindly.  you have to know, which means attaching a scale to the reel during a fight to measure.  Yeah, good luck with that!   

Hi Alan, this is a great test, thanks for doing this, we regularly have such long runs with sharks from the shore, actually often much longer. I have had them run out close to 800m and then you get line back and then off it goes again. The side plate does get hot, but usually you can still touch it, but I am wondering due to using metal bodied reels (Toriums) the heat dissipates better? Also will Delrin withstand the heat? I made a replacement espresso pot handle (the standard plastic one broke off) from a piece of delrin and it melted away on the first use.

[Tiddlerbasher]

Capefish - Delrin (hom) has a melting point of 347°F Acetal (co) has a melting point a few degrees lower - a coffee pot shouldn't approach that unless you put it onto a hob

Sal - maybe one set of gears has a better 'mesh' than the other - smoother and more efficient maybe a different ratio

[CapeFish]

That's around 175C, that's not very high, I did place it on a hob and had been doing so for a long time with the old plastic handle

[Alto Mare]

Sal - maybe one set of gears has a better 'mesh' than the other - smoother and more efficient maybe a different ratio

I'm not sure that's it. I have tested the 4/0, 6/0 9/0 and also the Jigmaster, of course at different settings.
All the reels gave the same results, as being much smoother at recommended max when increasing  drag capacity.
I always believed that when increasing the drag numbers on a reel makes it much smoother at where it was meant to be fished at.
Anyone could try this and see if they agree or disagree, it might  just be me hallucinating:-\
Now, why this happens?... I can't explain it, but I'm sure there are a few here that could.


Leon, put the coffee pot down and grab a reel  . You were dealing with heat coming from different direction and I'm sure steam, not an accurate test.

Sal

[Tiddlerbasher]

Sal - one reason could be that you are running the improved drags at a lower pressure - more drag plates=lower pressure to get standard drag numbers