casting with conventional reels

Started by valkie, December 15, 2015, 05:17:01 AM

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valkie

Now let me get this clear from the start.
Im not the greatest, or even a moderate fisherman...............hopeless comes to mind.

Recently I decided to replace my old Alvey side cast surf reel with a conventional overhead reel.
My rod is a surf caster 12 foot.
STOP LAUGHING, ITS NOT FUNNY.

My first attempt resulted in a birds nest of truly humungious proportions.
STOP LAUGHING

An hour and several hundred of feet of fishing line later I prepared for my second cast.
This time I was far more careful, making sure my thumb was in the right place and that there was some tension on the reel.
Casting with much less effort I watched as the sinker arched beautifully toward the breakers, somewhat mystified when it suddenly stopped.
Glancing back at the reel, I observed a beautiful birds nest that any bird would have been proud of.
STOP LAUGHING.

Now I use a baitcaster reel for normal fishing and I rarely get a nest or any such problems.
But I cant seem to get the overhead to work for me.
Could anyone help me with some tips or tricks?
Ill give it a few more goes and then the reel will find itself permanently under water.
The birds nest was somewhat of a lesser extent, but still considerable.
life's pretty dull without fishing

AndrewC

Which conventional reel are you trying to cast with would be a good place to start?
The worlds a better place when its upside down

Dr. Jekyll - AKA MeL B

#2
mag it, there are few threads here that shows you how to do it, google it or buy PMR's mag kit... hope this helps, tight lines!

btw keep as posted!

Tiddlerbasher

x2 mag it (preferably adjustable) it will at least give you the chance to 'educate' your thumb ;)

Aiala

Or buy yourself an Avet MC model... not inexpensive, but mine has yet to produce a nest.   ;)

~A~

I don't suffer from insanity... I enjoy every minute of it!  :D

thorhammer

Questions: graphite or glas rod? stiffness plays a big part in casting style

what reel, as inquired above? depending, we can help you tune it to your capability as you educate your thumb. not all reels are capable of being magged in any case, or dont need it with proper bearing sets / lubricants. I back the magnets full off my 525's and magpowers so they may as well not have them.

is it levelwind?

what line test?

what weight are your throwing, and bait or lure?

are you thumbing the side of the spool or the line directly (a great way to fluff a larger reel cast with a lot of power.

whats the distance from butt cap to reel seat?

valkie

Ok
Many questions, Ill do my best.

The reel is a Penn Defiance Level wind.
The rod is a 12 foot beach rod, sorry don't know the brand. Quite flexible at the last third, but quite stiff from there back.
The line is good quality mono, 20 lb.
I use bait with a 3/4 inch ball sinker (The bait is Cunji, a sort of growth on the rocks and is reasonably large.)
Overall I would guess about 1-2 ounces total.

I am thumbing the spool, giving it reasonable freedom to spool off, but it just seems to go wild.

I assume the butt cap is the rear end of the rod, its about 18 inches.

Practicing yesterday I was casting with the wind, I had considerably more luck and better distance.
When I was getting the big birds nests I was casting into the wind.
Could this have been a factor?

By the way, in practicing yesterday, I found a new and even more interesting way to make a birds nest.
STOP LAUGHING.
When one goes to set the hook, its a good idea to set the lever back to strike, not leave it at free spool.
That sudden jerk sets the reel spinning at a good rate of knots, (Pun intended)
Yet another magnificent birds nest.
life's pretty dull without fishing

alantani

send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Jeri

Hi Valkie,

I don't know the Penn model that you are using, however pretty sure that it will not have any braking system in it – centrifugal or magnetic – and here lies the very core of your problem. Even most accomplished surf casters use reels with some forms of braking – those that don't just don't get the distance. This is why you don't have problems with your baitcaster – it has a braking system.

The braking systems allow the reel to spin, but not to furious speeds. This keeps the whole story under some sort of marginal control during the cast. So, perhaps a different overhead reel might be in order – definitely one with some form of braking system. The level wind is doing you no favours either, so skip that sales feature.

The next aspect is the rod, sound like a glass fibre rod, though could be carbon, but at 12' long casting just 2oz of combined sinker and bait, you are probably not getting it working properly to launch the bait and sinker at speed – indeed speed enough to take line from the reel fast enough to not cause your favourite pastime – 'crow's nest un-knitting'! Try a couple of casts with 3 or even 4oz sinkers, but try to be smooth in the casts – you don't need to drive the rod hard enough to put the sinker the other side of the ocean. There will be an optimum weight for your rod, you just have to find it.

Next during the learning phase, try loading the reels with heavier line, say 30 or 40lb, less prone to getting crow's nests.

Next is to be less aggressive with the casting technique, as smoother relates to smoother release of the sinker and subsequent flight. We find most crow's nests happen at either 30 metres from the caster – very rough and jerky cast and release, or at the very end of the flight, when the sinker is being affected by gravity and no longer pulling line off the reel as fast as the reel is spinning – this is a time to seriously thumb the spool. TA point here is that you are looking for a high trajectory for your sinker, so that you have time to watch it through the air, and can see when it starts to drop and slow – now start thumbing the spool.

Casting into the wind has helped because it has slowed or smoothed out the flight of the sinker, this lead me to believe that your casting style is potentially aggressive and forceful. Have a scour of the 'net', and look for a video of John Holden doing the 'Easy Cast'. It is a technique we use here for teaching to get people casting smoothly and in a relaxed fashion – and the key word here is relaxed, as it uses a technique to get the rod doing the work, not the angler.

Hope that helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri


Jeri

Hi Alan,

Something that would be very useful for various reasons, is to know where folks are residing, as this could be very relavent to the advise that can be given, especially when answering queries like this one. We do all our surf fishing with 5 and 6oz sinkers or heavier. Other places are fishing much lighter, so it is all relavent to where - so that we can give best advice. Perhaps it could be added to the individual profile that is displayed?

I try not to laugh at folks when they get the ultimate 'crow's nests' - they get so dis-spirited. But it is still funny in an obscure way. :-)

Jeri

AndrewC

Hi Valkie

As suggested it not really a casting reel. Its big and ugly , no brakes and a level wind just to add to problems.

I doubt the Jamie at PMR could get it to cast much better with a mag.

You might want to try a Penn 535 Mag or Sqall20 both come with Mag brakes and really easy to cast. The others you can try which are very suitable for fishing with are Daiwa SL20SH or SL30SH, which is a 20 with a wider spool. 

Or The Avet mags as suggested earlier, which are great casting reels even though they are a little on the expensive side compare to the others
The worlds a better place when its upside down

Rickb

    I had to tighten the spool tension knobs up pretty snug on two reels one night for a guy  He had the same issue big backlashes they were new reels and he was used to spinning reels.
You  needed three or more ounce weight to get any distance.

RowdyW

Quote from: Red brown on December 16, 2015, 08:07:45 AM
    I had to tighten the spool tension knobs up pretty snug on two reels one night for a guy  He had the same issue big backlashes they were new reels and he was used to spinning reels.

If you are tightening the left bearing knob on a Penn reel you are side loading a bearing not designed to be a thrust bearing. It will wear out the bearing & cause wear on both ends of the spool, later causing bearing & spool replacement. You are supposed to have a few thousandth end play in the spool when it is adjusted correctly. If you need more drag on the spool try heavier grease, magnets, your thumb etc. or a reel designed to increase casting drag.

valkie

#13
It appears that I may be trying to drive a Porsch off road through the bush instead of a 4x4 from what I gather.
I may need a more suitable reel for this task.
I have an old Akuma reel that I once used and it was reasonable, I think it has the brakes you talked about.

I think it quite funny every time I get a nest.
Laughing at it makes it somewhat less annoying, its that or smashing the damn thing on the rocks.

I live on the East coast of Australia, about 100K or 60 miles north of Sydney.
I fish in saltwater lakes which are a predominant feature in my area, surf fishing and Boat fishing Off shore.
This latest exercise is rock fishing.
That is to say, standing precariously perched on a rocky outcrop, watching for rogue waves that are continually trying to embrace me and take me swimming.
We loose several rock fishermen every year over here, mainly because they dont know the safety procedures when taken unawares by a wave.

I will give up on this reel and start using the old Akuma, as you have said a breaking system may be the core of my problem.
Im off away for a few weeks, Ill post again once I have tried all you have suggested.

Thanks Guys
Its nice to know that I can get sage advice when I need it from truly experienced fishermen.

Cheers
life's pretty dull without fishing

sdlehr

Valkie, even my reels with centrifugal brakes will get a birds nest if not adjusted properly, but even when adjusted properly if I'm casting into the wind and a gust picks up while my line is in flight it will slow down the line travel enough to create a birds' nest. Sometimes stuff just happens.
Sid Lehr
Veterinarian, fishing enthusiast, custom rod builder, reel collector