XBSG Spinning Guides?

Started by Ron Jones, January 12, 2016, 08:46:19 PM

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Ron Jones

Wondering if anyone has any experience with these from mudhole? My TRQ surf rod is missing several rings from the eyes. I just don't like those things, all they do is pop out. I am looking to completely redo the eyes on this rod with the toughest ringless eye I can find and I think this is it. If someone knows of bad juju with these ot of a stronger ringless guide I'd love to hear about it. If you imagine taking a surf rod and bashing it into lava rock, that is the life this rod often lives. Rings just don't work in that environment, but it IS where fish are.
Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

cbar45

#1
Hello, I'm also one of those that un-intentionally bash my surf spinning rods into lava rocks...The past few years I have been wrapping on Pacbay Minima-4's (titanium chrome pvd), paired with Fuji Alconite/SiC tip-tops...So far I have been pleased with how well they are holding up...There is no ceramic ring to break; rather the ring is made from an extremely hard industrial chrome-plated stainless, which on Minima 4's is double-swaged into the frame..

These guides are also super light compared to conventional ringed guides...Only downside I can think of is that the frames, while strong, are on the lighter side and probably best suited for rods in the 15-25 lb line class and below...Even so, there are those surf casters (in England especially) who regularly use Minimas to throw heavy 50 lb mono leaders no problem..

You might have heard of these type guides being grooved by braided line, and while that is true of the budget versions found in big-box stores, Minima 4's are a totally different animal and are actually approved by Pacbay for use with braid...Their plating combined with a pvd coating is much harder, and in my waters at least I have never been able to groove them throwing braid...

Chad

cbar45

#2





swill88


Ron Jones

Nice. I saw those on the muh-hole sight. Maybe I'll give them a try.

Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

Bryan Young

Check with California Tackle (Jon Vadney). Support the little guys (we'll sort of. Jon is not very little). And he is a trusted member and a heck of a guy.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Jeri

Hi guys,

I'm not familiar with the TRQ rod, nor lava rocks but we build literally 100's of surf rods every year, and more recently a huge move towards rods for fixed spools and braid. In the past when we were just concerned with nylon lines, we did use some of the XBSG type guides, which were modeled on original design from the 60's and 70's called Diamites. The problem is the brazed frames breaking, as well as the surface grooving in time, as stainless steel even when hard chrome plated does not fare well with a mixture of line and salt and sandy silt running over them. With braid the groove even quicker. Hence everyones move away from those tyoes of solid guides to guides with ceramic inserts, kinder to the fishing lines.

What we have found with our long surf rods, fixed spool reels and braid is the use of Fuji Low Riders, awesome guides for surf rod performance with the braid. We are getting some folks - younger than me dropping sinkers and bait out at approaching 200 metres. That is obviously on some of our higher performing surf blanks, but equally we are getting a good proportion of work converting other rods to the Low Riders, as the performance gains with these rings over traditional 'cone of flight' guides is huge.

I appreciate that the ceramic guides are potentially fragile when bashed against lava rocks, but when you are weighing performance against other factors, then perhaps they might be a consideration in your calculation. I know they are radical in apprearance, and don't conform with the conventions that we expect to see, but the performance gain is huge, in the last year we have probably fitted over 100 sets of these guides to surf rods, and just now ordering another 30 sets for the coming months.

Sorry to slip in a 'curve ball' to your thoughts, but hope it helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Ron Jones

Jeri,
Opinions of experts are always appreciated. The Penn Torque is a lower-mid class E-glass rod. Mine is 12 ft rated to 40# if memory serves. I understand the grooving issue, but I don't think I use this particular rod often enough for it to be a problem until I can fish off of sand again. That will be a few years from now.
Thanks
Ron
From the sunset side of Oahu.
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

cbar45

#8
Quote from: Jeri on January 13, 2016, 06:37:40 AM

The problem is the brazed frames breaking, as well as the surface grooving in time, as stainless steel even when hard chrome plated does not fare well with a mixture of line and salt and sandy silt running over them. With braid the groove even quicker. Hence everyones move away from those tyoes of solid guides to guides with ceramic inserts, kinder to the fishing lines..


Jeri

Regarding grooving, that is true to a certain extent...It seems to be a regional thing whether or not your watershed contains enough abrasive particles to groove industrial hard-chromed guides...I cannot speak for other areas, but for Hawaii (Big Island), I can say the only guides I've seen groove are the aforementioned cheap hard chrome-plated ones, as well as a few boat and hilo style guides made from soft stainless..

I have never seen Minima-4's groove, even when used with braid in sandy areas...I'm sure given the right conditions it is possible, but it appears those circumstances do not occur for my area and type of fishing that we do..

Then, too, the size and power of your intended quarry would be another thing to consider when choosing guides...As stated, I only use Minima 4's for 15-25 lb applications and below...There is no fish in that category with enough firepower to start grooving these guides...But for ulua fishing, Fuji's BHNNG/BMNAG, Am-Tack's Virtus series, and the new Alps HXN would be a better choice..

Chad

oc1

Pretty rod Chad.

To me, it's all about distance and reducing weight on a casting/whipping rod.  Adding even a small amount of weight out toward the tip of a long rod will force you to increase the handle length and/or put lead in the butt cap in order to balance it.  I use as little wrapping as possible, just enough varnish to wet out the thread and no flexcoat.  The added advantage of minimalist wrapping is that it only takes a few minutes to strip a broken guide and replace it.  I was using single foot micro guides for a while but they tangle too easily on a long rod so now it's Fuji three-leg concept guides with light frames and inserts.  Easy to break, but dirt cheap and easy to replace.

Dunking and ulua/sliding rods are a different story.  If you need the distance but are going to make a limited number of casts from the shoreline then rod weight and handle length is less important.

-steve

Ron Jones

I fish this rod the same way I've surf fished my whole life. Basically what is called dunking here. Anywhere from 2-6 oz of lead on the bottom of the main line with an appropriate sized hook or 2 off a dropper loop with squid, shrimp or sand crabs (I forget what they are called here.) When I was a kid I did the whole 3 way swivel and leader thing but I'm to old to bother anymore. The issue is that I often fish off of Kaena Point and other rocky areas in Waianae and just getting to the water with gear that still works can be tricky.
Thanks
Ron
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"

cbar45

#11
Quote from: oc1 on January 13, 2016, 07:46:50 AM
Pretty rod Chad.

-steve

Thanks Steve...It's not so pretty anymore having seen its fair share of use, but the Sabre e-glass blank and components are holding up just fine...For this build I wanted something durable as there are more than a few places here with rough, unforgiving, terrain similar to that which noybu72 speaks of..

Chad

cbar45

Quote from: noyb72 on January 13, 2016, 12:20:21 AM
Nice. I saw those on the muh-hole sight. Maybe I'll give them a try.

Ron

It looks like Mudhole lumped both Minima 3's and 4's together on their website...I do not like the 3's, they are swaged only on one side and do not seem to be as well-built as the 4's...If you decide to go with Minimas, the extra money spent on the 4's is worth it..imho

Chad

Bryan Young

Quote from: noyb72 on January 13, 2016, 07:57:46 AMsand crabs (I forget what they are called here.) /quote]
We call them sand turtles as we also have sand crabs.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Ron Jones

That's rite. I believe they are called sand fleas somewhere else.
Thanks
Ron
From the sunset side of Oahu.
Ronald Jones
To those who have gone to sea and returned and to those who have gone to sea and will never return
"