P229F issues

Started by MikeS51, March 09, 2016, 12:43:46 PM

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MikeS51

Hi, just purchases a used P229F and I'm having some issues that are driving me crazy because I can't figure out why. The handle turns backwards with only a little bit of pressure. My first thought was simple, the dog needs to be check and put back in to position. I did this but now I realize that turning the handle does not engage the spool fully and the dog will still fail with a little pressure. All of the internals look OK and appear to be there per the schematic. The dog is in good shape.

When I have just the right side plate in my hand and turn the bridge everything works as it should. The dog is strong and it's not possible for me to reverse it and the pinion is engaged and moving. However, when I assemble everything it reverts back to the issue. My guess is somehow I'm having a gear alignment issue when I put it all back together. Perhaps somehow I'm not getting enough pressure on the drag stack and just the bridge assembly is turning? I checked the c-clip that goes on top of the bridge and it appears to be in OK shape, but I still ordered another one to see if maybe that is the issue.

I'm really stumped with this one and could use any insight. Thanks guys

Mike

thinkwahoo

Sounds like the anti reverse tension spring could be jumping off the dog, or has been bent so much it's not pushing the dog down to the cogs on the bridge sleeve. If it is bent too much then straighten it out to put more tension on the dog.  Another thing to check is to make sure the dog swings freely on the pivot point.

MikeS51

Quote from: thinkwahoo on March 09, 2016, 03:42:05 PM
Sounds like the anti reverse tension spring could be jumping off the dog, or has been bent so much it's not pushing the dog down to the cogs on the bridge sleeve. If it is bent too much then straighten it out to put more tension on the dog.  Another thing to check is to make sure the dog swings freely on the pivot point.

Hmmm I'll take a look tonight.  The dog and spring work like it should when I test it with the right side plate removed from the rest of the reel so I'm not sure why the spring would not work when the reel is fully together.

Thanks for the suggestion.

MarkT

The spool and the pinion are meshing correctly?  With the sideplate off, insert the spool into the right sideplate and turn it by hand to see where it's slipping.
When I was your age Pluto was a planet!

PacRat

What washer are you using under the main gear? It could be causing an interference with the dog. Also too much grease could contribute to this. I like just enough grease for corrosion protection plus a drop of oil right at the pivot.

For a quick check just spray the bridge assembly down with WD-40 and hit it with a toothbrush to flush the grease away the put it together and see how it works. If all is well; wipe it down and reassemble with less grease.

I just went through a 229 that felt right but was sluggish and the freespool sucked. When I opened it up it was greased with silicone o-ring grease that was very sticky. Gave it the Tani treatment with new drag washers and she's better than new.

-Mike

MikeS51

Quote from: MarkT on March 09, 2016, 04:03:28 PM
The spool and the pinion are meshing correctly?  With the sideplate off, insert the spool into the right sideplate and turn it by hand to see where it's slipping.

yes they are. I thought maybe the pinion or spool was the issue but they mesh fine. I also tossed old jigmaster gears in to test it out and they too had the same issue where everything is normal, then you screw the whole reel together and suddenly everything goes to hell.

I'm going to take some detailed pics tonight and post them. I did notice something was a little off with the number of washers above the spacer (before the handle) but from what I read this is normal for newell reels to have slight differences.


MikeS51

Quote from: PacRat on March 09, 2016, 04:24:40 PM
What washer are you using under the main gear? It could be causing an interference with the dog. Also too much grease could contribute to this. I like just enough grease for corrosion protection plus a drop of oil right at the pivot.

For a quick check just spray the bridge assembly down with WD-40 and hit it with a toothbrush to flush the grease away the put it together and see how it works. If all is well; wipe it down and reassemble with less grease.

I just went through a 229 that felt right but was sluggish and the freespool sucked. When I opened it up it was greased with silicone o-ring grease that was very sticky. Gave it the Tani treatment with new drag washers and she's better than new.

-Mike

Not sure on the washer but I know one is there. I'll take a look tonight. There is very little grease in the reel if any.

foakes

Just a complete cleaning of the head side, paying attention like Mize sez to the UG washer.

Dry out assembly completely -- then just light grease on reassembly -- no grease on the dog post stud -- just a drop of good syn oil or 321 will do.

Expand the spring very slightly -- since you are in there anyway -- reassemble, trying to not get too much grease in the dog area.

As long as there are no burrs or gouges on the dog, dog post, main gear, and UG washer -- you should be OK.

These reels were made and designed to clean with most of the head side attached.  One could just compress the drag stack -- submerge in fresh water -- flush it out -- dry ot out -- loosen the drag stack -- lube and fish.  Great for Long Rangers.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

MikeS51

Well I've solved the issue!

Inspired by all of your suggestions, I went through the reel and slowly took pictures as I took it apart. By really slowing down and looking at pictures I realized that one of the washers that belongs on top of the drag stack under the sleeve was swapped with a much smaller washer that belongs in the handle section. This allowed the bridge assembly to have a little too much wiggle room and slide out of place. After the correction everything appears to be normal.

What a relief. Thanks guys.

thinkwahoo

Ah yes, the old sequence of assembly issue.  That's why it's so important when you disassemble a reel for the first time to lay out all the parts in sequence, and which side is UP.

On rare occasions the pressure of the side plate can push down on the tension spring, and cause it to pop off the dog.

foakes

Excellent, Mike --

That is how we all continue to learn.

Best,

Fred
The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

MikeS51

I'm guessing the gentleman who sold it to me disassembled it and put it away for a few years before selling it to me. Due to this site, I meticulously place parts in order when I take apart a reel. It didn't occur to me until last night that maybe the order was a little off!