Fin-nor fly reel No.3 anti reverse Drag upgrade

Started by Hillbillyman, March 12, 2016, 10:39:25 PM

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Hillbillyman

 
             Has anyone upgraded one of these reels with carbon fiber washers ?
             Seems to be doable as the reel and spool are both brass , the cork washer behind the spool 
             would be the hardest to match up ...
             And if you toss out the ball bearing washer you would have more room for a stack ...
             Just checking as I think Im going to do some measuring and attempt this endeavor ...
             
             The anti reverse is double dogged but the parts are brass , it would be nice to give it a boost ...
              Not too much , but 10 pounds would be handy ... What do ya think am I out of my gourd?
                Regards , Barney 
The more dogs I meet the less people I like ...
Time spend fishing is not subtracted from a persons lifespan ...

jurelometer

Quote from: Hillbillyman on March 12, 2016, 10:39:25 PM

             Has anyone upgraded one of these reels with carbon fiber washers ?
             Seems to be doable as the reel and spool are both brass , the cork washer behind the spool 
             would be the hardest to match up ...
             And if you toss out the ball bearing washer you would have more room for a stack ...
             Just checking as I think Im going to do some measuring and attempt this endeavor ...
             
             The anti reverse is double dogged but the parts are brass , it would be nice to give it a boost ...
              Not too much , but 10 pounds would be handy ... What do ya think am I out of my gourd?
                Regards , Barney 

Hi Barney,

A bunch of things to think about.

First of all the reel frame, spool, and proabably ratchet plate are all aluminum.   The brass/gold color is from the anodized/polished finish.

1.  Cork has a much higher coefficient of friction than carbon fiber (especially greased).  So with the drag knob bottomed out, you will actually have less drag with carbon.   There are a bunch of other properties that make cork different, such as a gradual increase in friction from stop to moving,   vibration dampening, heat conduction, etc, etc.    The desgin  of these fly reels take advantage of these properties.

2.   The ratchet that the cork is glued to is probably aluminum.  Maybe not a good idea to replace the dogs/pawls with something too hard like stainless.   Since the  ratchet is quite large,  and there is no multiplier effect caused by gearing,  the force on the dogs is is many times lower than what you will see on a typical star drag conventional reel.   


3.   Cork is in many ways a better drag material than carbon fiber.   Where it mostly fails is max temperature, or sticking due to contamination from other greases on the the reel.   If your drag usage does not cause the cork to  exceed the max temperature, then replacing the cork with an alternate material could easily be a step backwards.   I would suspect that a 200 yard run  at 10 lbs will not not toast a properly lubricated cork drag.  I would suggest to clean the cork thoroughly and lubricate with the appropriate drag grease.

I don't own any Fin Nors, but have several other similarly designed draw-bar cork drag fly reels.   10 lbs drag is possible with my reels, providing that the drag spring or belleviiles can provide enough force.    I had to replace coil springs with Bellevilles on a couple of Old Florida reels to get past 3-4 lbs of drag. After switching to the Bellevilles, 10 lbs was possible.   If your ratchet plate is aluminum,  then you need to keep an eye on the ratchet teeth at higher drag settings. Also the side load on the ball bearings will increase, perhaps leading to bearing failure (but these reels usually have pretty beefy bearings).  The original draw bar cork fly reels were usually  not intended to fish past about 7-8 lbs of drag (20 lb tippet was the highest IGFA class), but most were well made and quite beefy.  Looks like the Fin Nors used three bellevilles so you are are probably OK, or if not, can replace with different strength bellevilles with the same dimensions.  Or possibly just play with the bellevile orientation.

I have been fishing a big cork drag Abel fly reel  well beyond 10 lbs drag for Yellowtail and other tough critters for several years now.   No problems so far, but the ratchet teeth do show a little bit of wear. The abel ratchet teeth are small and square,   the Fin Nors look tougher. 

BTW:    Don't plan on putting much bend in a fly rod at these settings, or you will be buying a new one :)

There are some other goods threads on cork drags and also belleville orientation, if you search around the site a bit.

My $.0.02


-Jurelometer

Hillbillyman

Hi Jurelometer

                      No belvilles on this model Fin-nor you must be looking at a newer model schematic ,
since this models ratchet assembly is fairly small for spool diameter ... I will be posting pics of the reel and its components tomorrow ... Because who doesn't like a post with pics  ;D
                      Great information in your comment , thanks so much for your help ... Maybe I am missing some spool well parts ... Got the reel from my father in law , he has recently passed and I would like to put one of his reels back to work in his memory ... Can't find a schematic or parts list online yet , maybe someone has access to one ... More will be revealed when I get the pics on the next post ...
                            Thanks for your help ... Regards Barney
The more dogs I meet the less people I like ...
Time spend fishing is not subtracted from a persons lifespan ...

jurelometer

Quote from: Hillbillyman on March 14, 2016, 07:23:07 AM
Hi Jurelometer

                      No belvilles on this model Fin-nor you must be looking at a newer model schematic ,
since this models ratchet assembly is fairly small for spool diameter ... I will be posting pics of the reel and its components tomorrow ... Because who doesn't like a post with pics  ;D
                      Great information in your comment , thanks so much for your help ... Maybe I am missing some spool well parts ... Got the reel from my father in law , he has recently passed and I would like to put one of his reels back to work in his memory ... Can't find a schematic or parts list online yet , maybe someone has access to one ... More will be revealed when I get the pics on the next post ...
                            Thanks for your help ... Regards Barney

Found this one.  There were several iterations of the AR reel.   Curious to see what yours looks like.   There are folks into collecting these reels, and know lots about them (not me   :).   


Hillbillyman

Here is a picture of the fly reel , A Fin-Nor Tycoon anti reverse No.3
The more dogs I meet the less people I like ...
Time spend fishing is not subtracted from a persons lifespan ...

Hillbillyman

Here are the spool well components it came to me with ... And the handle , drag knob and retaining screw ... Also a pic of the underside of the spool ...
The more dogs I meet the less people I like ...
Time spend fishing is not subtracted from a persons lifespan ...

Hillbillyman

Here is the reel body body with the ratchet sleeve removed , and in place ...
The more dogs I meet the less people I like ...
Time spend fishing is not subtracted from a persons lifespan ...

Hillbillyman

And last but not least ,  the reason behind this post ... The cork drag washer , the only means of slowing this puppy down ...
There were no indications that it was glued to the ratchet sleeve at all ... It looks very tired and compressed ... :-[
Hopefully I can get some help with a proper schematic or parts list ... I can't find one on-line at all ... I still am very tempted to
do a little machining and build a small drag stack ... I have a spare spool so I could still keep one original ...
The more dogs I meet the less people I like ...
Time spend fishing is not subtracted from a persons lifespan ...

jurelometer

Interesting photos!  Thanks for posting.

Probably an early generation 2 reel (generation 1 were the famous collectible  "wedding cake"  reels.)   

For any upgrade of drag capacity, we are assuming that the main shaft  has to be beefy enough to accommodate the increased load.  Looks a bit scrawny in the photo.  Also the coil spring has to be strong enough to apply the required extra force.   

Since there doesn't appear to be any flat sides on the clutch shaft-  adding drag washers will not provide additional drag surfaces-  they will all spin together.   So less drag than the original cork.

I would see how much drag you are getting with the current setup.   If you can reach 5 or 6 lbs of drag, that is more than the vast majority of saltwater fly fisherman are using.  It may be good enough as is...  I have read that folks still fish these reels.

Good luck, and if you go forward, post your results!