Servicing a Penn Senator 118 (16/0)

Started by Alto Mare, February 18, 2011, 11:41:58 PM

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williewiskers

Alto,

Thanks. I only copied the question because I saw the other thread later from the same author and the first post said, "post questions about this reel here". I had assumed the other post wasn't followed. I don't know anything about delran, never used it or heard of it. I usually use the stock fiber washer under the main gear. With my 118 I am getting the Cortez SS sleeve, dog and the HT-100 stack. I was under the impression that adding the CF drag under the main gear gave you a little more drag - which I could handle between a steel main gear and a new stainless steel sleeve.

What is the properties of delran that make it your preferred choice under the main gear?

Sorry for the double post.


Ty

The Wiskers


Alto Mare

Quote from: williewiskers on February 18, 2020, 07:13:54 PM
Alto,

Thanks. I only copied the question because I saw the other thread later from the same author and the first post said, "post questions about this reel here". I had assumed the other post wasn't followed. I don't know anything about delran, never used it or heard of it. I usually use the stock fiber washer under the main gear. With my 118 I am getting the Cortez SS sleeve, dog and the HT-100 stack. I was under the impression that adding the CF drag under the main gear gave you a little more drag - which I could handle between a steel main gear and a new stainless steel sleeve.

What is the properties of delran that make it your preferred choice under the main gear?

Sorry for the double post.


Ty

The Wiskers


Not a problem on the double post,I forgot all about the other section.

The main reason I prefer a Delrin washer over the carbon fiber washer for under the gear is smoothness.
I'm a strong believer that the washer for under the gear should function as a ball bearing, while allowing the carbon fiber washers in the gear work as smooth as possible.

I guess the best answer would be for you to try both and send which one works best for you.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

williewiskers

Good to know with the delran. In the case of the 16/0, drag is its weakness. Its strength was capacity. The upgrade parts should safely allow it to close SOME of that disparity gap between its size and its drag tension. So, by my own ignorant logic, I am reasoning going with the power-option first would be the best move.

I saw in the tutorial there was a C.F. used under the main gear with the caption, "like Alan says to do", but I havent found a tutorial on the site from Alan, nor does Mystic customer support list a C.F. alternate part. In an email they said they get that information reported from people on here and that they have no record of being advised of the alternate washer part number.

???

Alto Mare

Quote from: williewiskers on February 19, 2020, 12:46:27 AM
Good to know with the delran. In the case of the 16/0, drag is its weakness. Its strength was capacity. The upgrade parts should safely allow it to close SOME of that disparity gap between its size and its drag tension. So, by my own ignorant logic, I am reasoning going with the power-option first would be the best move.

I saw in the tutorial there was a C.F. used under the main gear with the caption, "like Alan says to do", but I havent found a tutorial on the site from Alan, nor does Mystic customer support list a C.F. alternate part. In an email they said they get that information reported from people on here and that they have no record of being advised of the alternate washer part number.

???
If you're going that rout, just add one of the washer you're using in the gear for under the gear.
Don't fool yourself on the 16/0 not having enough drag.
Taking everything in consideration... spool size, gear size, 1.5 to 1 ratio, you won't find a better winch.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

williewiskers

Mystic customer support said there was a problem with the thickness of the HT-100 not being sufficient to allow the dog to function freely. That the original fiber washer was thicker than the drag washer and using a 6-116 (or equivalent) wouldnt allow the dog the move. The thickness of the 6-116 and 6-117 is the same - i believe.

Sorry to drag this out. I have to wait until I have $100 in parts to place a mystic order, so i dont want to get it wrong - ill be waiting awhile if I do.



Ty

Alto Mare

Quote from: williewiskers on February 20, 2020, 12:04:44 AM
Mystic customer support said there was a problem with the thickness of the HT-100 not being sufficient to allow the dog to function freely. That the original fiber washer was thicker than the drag washer and using a 6-116 (or equivalent) wouldnt allow the dog the move. The thickness of the 6-116 and 6-117 is the same - i believe.

Sorry to drag this out. I have to wait until I have $100 in parts to place a mystic order, so i dont want to get it wrong - ill be waiting awhile if I do.



Ty
I have a couple of pieces here, I could make you a carbon fiber washer, or a Delrin... your call.
Your cost is nothing.
I do want to mention again that I prefer a Delrin washer there.
Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

williewiskers

Sal,

Ive gotten enough beaming endorsement on your expertise in this area and this is my first 118, ill yield to your obvious expertise and go with the delrin. I can see how a smooth bearing-type material under the main gear would be more beneficial than a possible small amount of drag increase - especially when the drag star is running close to its mechanical tension limit. I am going to fish this reel so i want it to be as capable as possible.


Thank you!


Ive only been into rebuilding reels for about a year, but in that time Ive built my boat's fishing arsenal out of flea market and yard sale reels - all diagnosed, repaired and upgraded from info on here. This 16/0 I won in a raffle if you believe it!


Thanks again

williewiskers

Sal,

Your washers arrived in the mail today, they're beautiful. I can see why you recommend them. They have a very low surface tension and no measurable compressibility.

Thanks you so much for helping me make my 16/0 the best it can be!

The Wiskers (Chris)

Alto Mare

I'm glad they made it to you Chris!

Fish that reel and see how it goes for you.

Since you got that 16/0 at a very good price, it might be a good idea as some point to send it over for some additional upgrades.

When that time comes, you will be charged for parts only, labor would be on me.

Here is an idea on what could be done to the 16/0:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20189.msg217343#msg217343

Have a great evening.

Sal
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.

mo65

Quote from: williewiskers on February 20, 2020, 12:55:37 AM
I can see how a smooth bearing-type material under the main gear would be more beneficial than a possible small amount of drag increase - especially when the drag star is running close to its mechanical tension limit. I am going to fish this reel so i want it to be as capable as possible.

   I agree with Sal on these big Senators when it comes to the under gear washer. I sometimes use a carbon fiber under the gear on small reels to gain a bit of top end, but on a big Senator there are more drag washers, big washers, with enough power to shred carbon fiber under the gear to ribbons. Especially on a long run. You'll appreciate this set up knowing it won't fail when you need it most. 8) 
~YOU CAN TUNA GEETAR...BUT YOU CAN'T TUNA FEESH~


williewiskers

Its time to do new drag washers so was thinking about ordering SS gear sleeves and dogs for the 14/0 and 16/0 from Cortez Conversions. I know its not the Super 16 in your shark tank reel, but wanted to make sure it wasn't a waste to do this little upgrade or there was any known problems with them. I was actually considering going to Cortez SS sleeves and dogs on the 2x 12/0's and 2x 9/0's as well. I chose Cortez based on the alloy they use, 440SS (heat treated) - which has more strength and hardness than other's 316SS sleeves. I reasoned it would provide the best protection to the threads on the sleeve when putting pressure on it with the star.

Anything I should know, or am I good to go?

Also just found out the person whom I bought my 14 and 16/0 from found ANOTHER pair of them in his father's stuff (I think he's found 4 of each at this point!). He's going to keep the last one of each so that when we go out together we will have a full spread of 14-16/0's. Whatever I do to mine, he'll want done to his to match.


Ty

Benni3

Cortez drags,,,,maybe wasn't the problem,,,,, ??? I just got uncle sal to put them in my 4/0 a couple of months ago,,,,, ;) on the shark tanks drag not broken in and the goliath grouper looked like a Russian sub on the sonar,,,,,, :D maybe I pushed the drag to far,,,,,, :-\ because the 9/0 holds up against anything and is smooth,,,,,,, ;D

Benni3

And I thought "uncle sal" was going to get mad ,,,,, >:( but no he just laughed,,,,,,, :D if I made it and you can break it,,,,,,,, ;D