Curado 70XG and wet bearings

[oc1]

I bought this reel after the experts here told me about the super free system.  Also, I wanted a smaller reel that does not carry more line than needed for the task at hand.  The 70 size is the new 50 size Curado.  I have been using Korean-made Lew's Inshore BBI and BB2, an original silver Calcutta 100 before that, and ABU 5000 C before that.

Looking at the featured specifications one by one:

8.2:1 gear ratio
32 inches per turn - (IPT) retrieve
X SHIP - pinion supported on both ends

The IPT is about the same as what I've been using but the spool diameter is smaller than the 100 size reels so they needed a higher gear ratio.  It is 8.2:1 versus 7.1:1 for the 100 size Lew's.  The reel is ever-so-slightly harder to crank than what I'm used to.  This is probably because of the higher gear ratio.  The X SHIP system with better pinion support and smaller gear teeth does not compensate for the difference.  The Curado 70HG model has 7.2:1 gear ratio and 28 IPT.  If I had it to do over again, I would still get the XG model because the higher speed is so useful for the type of fishing.



10 lb drag
Cross Carbon Drag

That's nice, but I really only need about three pounds of drag.  The upper metal drag washer is concave so only the rim rides on the very narrow carbontex washer.  The second carbontex washer below the main gear has more surface area.  I think the concave metal drag washer and key helps insure the drag pressure is released when the star is backed off.



Super Free System
5 ball bearing + 1 roller bearing

I have been using reels with three bearings supporting the spool; one at each end of the shaft and a third bearing in between the spool and the pinion.  The Curado 70 only has two bearings supporting the spool; one at each end of the spool shaft.  That suits me fine because that third bearing requires the Hedgehog tool or very careful use of pliers to remove the retaining pin.  If frequent bearing flushing is required that pin is removed and reinstalled a lot.  It's time consuming and is an accident waiting to happen.

Under the cast control know there are two bearings.  An outer bearing that supports the spool shaft and an inner bearing that supports the pinion gear.  The first time I looked at this I thought it was going to be big trouble and a possible deal breaker.  When the tail plate and spool is removed the outer bearing under the cast control knob is easily accessed by removing a familiar pentagonal wire clip.  But, the pinion bearing cannot be removed because there is nothing to grab hold of.  To remove the pinion bearing the head plate must be opened and completely disassembled.  It was a relief to realize that the pinion bearing does not rotate when casting; at least it shouldn't rotate if everything is straight.  The pinion bearing only moves when the pinion is engaged with the spool.  When casting the pinion bearing just stabilizes the pinion so it cannot touch the rotating spool shaft.  The second photo below shows the position of the two bearings on the pinion and shool shaft with the cast control knob and head plate removed.




Super Stopper anti-reverse (AR bearing)
Whatever.  A double dog would have been fine with me

Quickfire II - spool disengaging bar under thumb

The quickfire button is a convenience I would hate to do without.  But as far as I can tell, there's nothing new or special about this one.  It's difficult to get it out of gear when there is a lot of tension on the line.  You need to use your thumb to rock the spool back while pushing the button.  My other baitcasters have this problem too, but not quite as bad.

Infinity System - variable centrifugal brake

The centrifugal brake is unusual in that the brake shoes are on the outside of the metal race.  The brake shoes are 'L' shaped and pinned or hinged in the center.  When the heavy side of the 'L' is pushed outward by centrifugal force, the smaller side of the 'L' is pulled inward contacting the race.  The only advantage I can see with this system is that it makes the braking system more compact so the tail plate can be smaller.

There is an external dial on the tail plate that raises or lower the centrifugal brake race.  The dial is a bit difficult to turn.  The dial combined with brake shoes that can be individually disengaged from inside the tail plate allows for incremental adjustments over a wide range.

No magnets and that suits me fine.




One piece aluminum body construction

I thought it was all composite/plastic and need to go back to look at it again.

S3D spool - balanced thin-wall aluminum spool
Capacty 105 yards of 10 lb mono or 30 lb Power Pro   
6.5 ounces - reel weight

I've always wondered why spools are not balanced like an automobile tire, but don't know how much it will matter.

The spool is tiny; both shallow and narrow.  Shallow is good because it makes the spool very light and increases casting distance.  Narrow is good because the line comes off the spool with minimal rubbing as it moves toward the disengaging levelwind guide to increase casting distance.  The line capacity will seem ridiculously small to most of you.  I started out using 115 yards of 20 pound braid but had a nice fish cut itself off on a coral head.  Then, switched to 100 yards of 30 pound braid.  Next time it happens, I'll switch to 80 yards of 40 pound braid.  So far, being cut off is a larger danger than having the spool stripped.

The reel weight is about an ounce lighter than what I'm used to, but to tell you the truth I did not notice it.  I definitely noticed that the overall size is smaller and it feels much better in the hand.






casting distance

This is the important thing to me.  The Curado70 is several yards longer than the Lew's Inshore BB1 which, in turn, is several yards longer than the old Calcutta 100 which, in turn, is several yards longer than the even older ABUs.  I decided to take the better performance in smaller lure weight rather than more distance.  The Curado 70 will throw a jig tied on a 1/4 ounce weight just as far as the BB1 will throw the same jig tied on a 3/8 ounce weight.  The 1/8 ounce difference does not sound like much but it makes a huge difference in presentation.  The jig will bump over rocks and coral without snagging at a slower retrieve speed.  The ultimate goal has been to throw a fully feathered jig tied on a 1/4 ounce tungsten weight 40 yards.  I'm not there yet, but it's getting very close.  Will need a lighter rod blank too because the one I have now feels like it is not loading fully with a 1/4 ounce jig.

Overall

The Curado 70 feels sort of plastic and cheap.  On the inside it looks cheap.  The cranking is a little stiff.  The brake control dial is a little stiff.  Getting it out of gear with a lot of tension on the line is a trick.  But, so far and overall, the function and performance have been great.  Not only that, this reel has brought good luck.  I love this reel. I want to marry this reel.  Until death do us part.  And this time I mean it.   

-steve

[mike1010]

Thanks for the tour; I've been curious about these reels.  I was going to ask why not a fluoro top-shot to address your cut-off problems, then saw that you're casting 1/4 oz.

Mike

[Lunker Larry]

You mentioned " It's difficult to get it out of gear when there is a lot of tension on the line.  You need to use your thumb to rock the spool back while pushing the button. " This is common as you mentioned. Just want to say to everyone don't force the thumbar on any of these reels without taking the pressure off the spool. I had one come in where, on a snag, the user forced the thumbar down and blew both ends off the nylon yoke.

[johndtuttle]

Thanks very much at that look at Shimano's new flagship baitcaster.

The "all metal body" is probably the frame and rt. side plate...they stretch the truth there and consider the gear train to be housed in "the body" and the left side just a "side plate". Or some such mental gymnastics .

Generally speaking these companies know what they are about. Literally hundreds of thousands of this type of reel is sold yearly from the various makers and where they lighten the reel is a very fine line between performance for all day casting and pinching fractions of pennies off of the cost (to them, little of the savings seems to be passed on ).

Hard to say where the dividing line between "planned obsolescence" and "lightweight performance for all day casting" cuts hard and fast. One man's cheap solution is another man's saving of grams on a tired wrist...

To me I am usually amazed at the precision molding required in these little powerhouses...modern marvels of tool and die.

[oc1]

Mike, I use about ten feet of 20 lb SeaGuar and its saved the day many times. Have to leave the knot outside the levelwind guide though.  Have not yet tried 40 yards of 12 lb fluoro on top of a braid backing.

John, perhaps its not planned obsolescence but inevitable obsolescence.  These things can do stuff that was unimaginable back in the day.  They jacked the price up twenty bucks on this generation, but it was worth every penny to me.  I have a question for you about wet bearings but do not have time to go into it right now.  Will be back later.

-steve

[oc1]

back...

Thanks to El Nino we've had unseasonably calm weather.  It's been really nice for paddling and fishing.  We should soon transition back to normal spring tradewind weather; light to moderate winds from the east to northeast with passing showers.

When it's calm and glassy everything stays dry, including the reel.  With a light wind and light chop the reel is likely to get splashed with seawater.  As the wind picks up or when there is a big swell the reel is likely to get drenched.  When I screw up it might get dunked.  Having the reel get wet is inevitable and unavoidable. 

As long as the reel is being used frequently and I'm paying attention corrosion is not really a problem.  Plastic doesn't corrode and the metal parts are greased.  The problem is having a spool bearing get wet.

Water works it way into the reel sporadically and unpredictably.  You never know when a water droplet will come into contact with one of the bearings.  But once it happens the casting performance will let you know about it immediately.  The weird thing is that after water contacts a bearing the first one or two casts may be the best of the day.  It's like the water is a super lubricant for a few moments.  But then, performance starts to drop off dramatically and the more you cast the worse it gets.  I think what happens is that water is pulled into the bearing by capillary action.  Then, as the little balls spin, the oil and water are mixed into a mayonnaise-like emulsion.  If you look closely there will be little clumps of goop that bog down the bearing and freespool.

Flushing out a bearing to dissolve the goop is not difficult, but it is time consuming.  I put the bearing on a wooden mandrel, submerge it in acetone, and spin it with a drill motor.  The acetone can be evaporated off by spinning it in air.  Sometimes it has to be done a couple of times to get the bearing to where it will spin like new.  There have been times when I missed the tide because I forgot to clean the bearings.  There have been times when 30 to 45 minutes was spent flushing bearings, I go fishing for a few hours, and then have to clean them again because they got wet.  I'm not going to change how and when I fish so something has to be done to address the wet bearing problem or at least the amount of time spent cleaning them.

The fact that the Curado does not have that third bearing between the spool and the pinion makes things simpler.  That middle bearing seems most likely to get wet, although it can happen to any of them.  The middle bearing is also the most tedious to clean because of that pin that must be removed and reinstalled.  The bearings in the head plate and tail plate are easier to remove.  It is so easy that it can be done at the beach or on the water as long as you don't loose the pentagonal wire retaining clip.

I'm going to try a couple of things.  One will be to get a ten-pack of bearings (they are 3x10x4 mm) and some spare wire clips.  If a bearing get wet, they can be removed in the field and replaced with clean ones.  I can't really tell which bearing is wet until it is removed from the side plate so its probably simpler to just change them both out.  Before running out of clean bearings, all the wet ones can be flushed at once whenever it is convenient.

I also want to try ceramic bearings.  Actually, I have orange seal ceramic spool bearings in the reel now but the weather is so nice that they haven't been wet yet.  In another thread John T said something to the effect that there is no place for ceramic bearing in seawater.  I'm guessing the rational is that salt crystals will eat up the ceramic balls.  Is this correct John?  Or, is there something else that I don't know about?  These ceramic bearings are being run dry and I hope that when they get wet salt crystals will not form during the remainder of the days outing.  I'm also hoping that since there is no oil, there will be no emulsion and they will be easier to clean.  But, I'm also worried about that orange rubber(?) seal.  Will acetone dissolve the seal?  Should they be cleaned with isopropyl or plain water instead?  Will the orange seals do anything to help keep water out?  Maybe I should have bought ceramic bearings with metal seals instead

Dry ceramic bearing are said to be noisy, but may cast a little better.  I don't know why I was surprised to find that the noise sounds just like little ceramic balls running around in a race, but I was and it does.  Reminds me of some sort of plastic toy.  You hear them when casting and you hear them when retrieving.  In the reviews and comments, the noise is understated, but so is the performance.  These things definitely make a difference; at least a couple of yards.  Despite the sound, I'm very pleased with them so far.

[mhc]

Have you considered replacing the bearings with bronze bushings? The ABU 7000s (and maybe 5000 & 6000) used 3x10x4 bushings and seem to cast as well the 7000c3 with bearings.
Mike

[oc1]

That would be interesting to try Mike.  I might even have some old ABU bushings that were swapped out for bearings.  But, the only reason bushings worked with the ABUs was because friction from the synchronized levelwind overwhelmed everything else.  After a CT conversion bearings would perform better than bushings.
-steve

[oc1]

I've learned a few things about wet bearings, but nothing that is not obvious or intuitive.

First, I learned that the inside of the reel is going to get wet regardless of whether or not the outside of the reel is splashed.  We had a very calm period and I watched the reel closely to make sure it was never splashed but the inside got wet anyway.  When opened, there were beads of between the spool and the inner side plate, beads of water in the gear box and even water inside the cast control knob.  There is an O-ring on the outside of the cast control knob so water must have come from inside the gear box and gone through or around the spool bearing and the outer pinion bearing.  It get into the gear box, water would have had to travel from under the spool through or around the inner pinion bearing too. To get under the spool water must enter around the outer edge of the spool.  My guess is that water is flung off the wet line and through the gap between spool and frame when casting.  I switched from slightly worn (almost fuzzy) 30# braid to new 20# braid but it did not help.

I learned that the free spin time of bearings is correlated with the free spool time of the reel and the casting distance.  I spent a lot of time on this.  It's obvious but important.  If bearings are put on a wood mandrel (pencil, bamboo skewer, chop stick, etc) and the outer race is spun (flicked with a finger), the longer the bearing spins the longer it will cast in the field.  If one bearing has double the free spin time of another bearing, the difference in casting distance will be five to ten percent. Anything that decreases free spin time decreases casting performance.  Lubricants that dramatically decrease free spin time include TSI-321, Reel X, Hot Sauce, LPS-1, WD-40, water, isopropyl, Yama Lube, Cals grease.  I haven't found any lubrication that does not decrease free spin time. 

I learned that there is no such thing as a sealed ball bearing; only shielded ball bearings.  The orange rubber "seals" are tucked under a lip on the outer race, but you can see light between the rubber and the inner race.  If the rubber was sealed to the inner race too then the bearing could not spin.  Metal shields are not sealed to either the inner or outer race.  If a droplet of water touches the seal/shield it will likely be drawn into the bearing by capillary action.  Once inside the bearing, the seal/shield may actually prevent the moving parts (balls, retainer, inner race) from slinging the water back out.  Open bearings without seals/shields do not get wet any sooner.

I learned that a dry (not lubricated) bearing is not adversely affected by water as much as a lubricated bearing.  This is because that oil/water emulsion gunk is not formed.  Oil/water emulsion slows down the bearing much more than either oil or water alone.  When a non-lubricated bearing gets wet performance returns almost to normal as it slings the water away.  But, if saltwater is allowed to dry and salt crystals form inside the bearing it will be permanently ruined just a few casts.  This only happened once so far and it was with a ceramic hybrid bearing.  I am not yet sure if a bearing with stainless balls will be permanently ruined under these conditions too.  Ceramic balls are harder then steel, but they may be more susceptible to pitting or fracture than steel.

I learned the ABEC-7 bearings are somewhat more likely to perform well than ABEC-5 bearings.  The ABEC rating system specifies tolerance limits in manufacture.  However, the ABEC rating is not necessarily related to the free spin time.  There is a lot of variation in free spin time in bearings with the same ABEC rating.  There is a lot of variation in the same model bearings from the same manufacturer and same supplier.  There is less variation in ABEC-7 bearing than ABEC-5 bearings, but the best ABEC-5 bearing from a ten-pack may be better then the worst ABEC-7 bearing from a ten pack.  There are businesses that grade bearings based on free spin time.  The best ones are sold at a higher price.  They don't say what happens to the bearings that are not so good.  Price may be more closely related to free spin time than anything else.  In my very limited experience, I've received better bearing when buying two than when buying ten of the same product.  It may be coincidence, it may be a racket; I don't know.  The uncertainty about what you are going to receive from a supplier is frustrating.  On the other hand, when you spend five to ten bucks on a bearing you can't really expect NASA space ship precision.

So far, dry orange shield ceramic hybrid bearings are the best thing I've tried.  I only ruined one of them in twenty to thirty hours of casting.  But, I wasted a lot of money trying to find bearings that cost less but work as well. 

-steve

[johndtuttle]

I've learned a few things about wet bearings, but nothing that is not obvious or intuitive.

First, I learned that the inside of the reel is going to get wet regardless of whether or not the outside of the reel is splashed.  We had a very calm period and I watched the reel closely to make sure it was never splashed but the inside got wet anyway.  When opened, there were beads of between the spool and the inner side plate, beads of water in the gear box and even water inside the cast control knob.  There is an O-ring on the outside of the cast control knob so water must have come from inside the gear box and gone through or around the spool bearing and the outer pinion bearing.  It get into the gear box, water would have had to travel from under the spool through or around the inner pinion bearing too. To get under the spool water must enter around the outer edge of the spool.  My guess is that water is flung off the wet line and through the gap between spool and frame when casting.  I switched from slightly worn (almost fuzzy) 30# braid to new 20# braid but it did not help.

I learned that the free spin time of bearings is correlated with the free spool time of the reel and the casting distance.  I spent a lot of time on this.  It's obvious but important.  If bearings are put on a wood mandrel (pencil, bamboo skewer, chop stick, etc) and the outer race is spun (flicked with a finger), the longer the bearing spins the longer it will cast in the field.  If one bearing has double the free spin time of another bearing, the difference in casting distance will be five to ten percent. Anything that decreases free spin time decreases casting performance.  Lubricants that dramatically decrease free spin time include TSI-321, Reel X, Hot Sauce, LPS-1, WD-40, water, isopropyl, Yama Lube, Cals grease.  I haven't found any lubrication that does not decrease free spin time. 

I learned that there is no such thing as a sealed ball bearing; only shielded ball bearings.  The orange rubber "seals" are tucked under a lip on the outer race, but you can see light between the rubber and the inner race.  If the rubber was sealed to the inner race too then the bearing could not spin.  Metal shields are not sealed to either the inner or outer race.  If a droplet of water touches the seal/shield it will likely be drawn into the bearing by capillary action.  Once inside the bearing, the seal/shield may actually prevent the moving parts (balls, retainer, inner race) from slinging the water back out.  Open bearings without seals/shields do not get wet any sooner.

I learned that a dry (not lubricated) bearing is not adversely affected by water as much as a lubricated bearing.  This is because that oil/water emulsion gunk is not formed.  Oil/water emulsion slows down the bearing much more than either oil or water alone.  When a non-lubricated bearing gets wet performance returns almost to normal as it slings the water away.  But, if saltwater is allowed to dry and salt crystals form inside the bearing it will be permanently ruined just a few casts.  This only happened once so far and it was with a ceramic hybrid bearing.  I am not yet sure if a bearing with stainless balls will be permanently ruined under these conditions too.  Ceramic balls are harder then steel, but they may be more susceptible to pitting or fracture than steel.

I learned the ABEC-7 bearings are somewhat more likely to perform well than ABEC-5 bearings.  The ABEC rating system specifies tolerance limits in manufacture.  However, the ABEC rating is not necessarily related to the free spin time.  There is a lot of variation in free spin time in bearings with the same ABEC rating.  There is a lot of variation in the same model bearings from the same manufacturer and same supplier.  There is less variation in ABEC-7 bearing than ABEC-5 bearings, but the best ABEC-5 bearing from a ten-pack may be better then the worst ABEC-7 bearing from a ten pack.  There are businesses that grade bearings based on free spin time.  The best ones are sold at a higher price.  They don't say what happens to the bearings that are not so good.  Price may be more closely related to free spin time than anything else.  In my very limited experience, I've received better bearing when buying two than when buying ten of the same product.  It may be coincidence, it may be a racket; I don't know.  The uncertainty about what you are going to receive from a supplier is frustrating.  On the other hand, when you spend five to ten bucks on a bearing you can't really expect NASA space ship precision.

So far, dry orange shield ceramic hybrid bearings are the best thing I've tried.  I only ruined one of them in twenty to thirty hours of casting.  But, I wasted a lot of money trying to find bearings that cost less but work as well. 

-steve

Thanks for that Steve, let me fill in some info I've picked up over the years.

1. Ceramic bearings (dry) are very fast but their cages can and will rust. This is one of the dilemmas with their use in saltwater. Lube them to protect them and any advantage is lost.

2. Ceramic balls are noted for their lack of resistance to crushing forces, so they hold up poorly to grit (ie salt or sand crystals) or heavy loads.

3. A bearing may be slower with a water/oil mix once it gets wet, but it will hold up longer and (particularly with greased bearings) last until you can get in there and clean them.

4. ABEC 7 vs 5...I would never hesitate to urge someone to experiment with increases in performance, but again the net returns can be small unless casting very light baits, in my experience. Then again, I am casting straight braid and generally need all the casting brakes I can get and so very, very fast bearings are of limited utility for me.

[oc1]

Hi John,

Thank you for the heads up about the cages rusting.  From what I can tell, the cages or retainers are the cause of most problems in new bearings too.  All the parts can be made with the highest precision, but the cages/retainers are such flimsy little things that if they are not pressed into place and sit just right they will rub the balls and cause them to bind.

Has anyone here ever tried the full ceramic bearings?  They're really pricy but may avoid some of the cage/retainer problems.

I've been fishing with jigs tied on 1/4 and 3/8 ounce tungsten weights and need two of the four centrifugal brake shoes clicked on when using dry bearings.  Those few extra yards the dry bearings provide are very much appreciated though and it may be possible to drop down to 1/8 ounce.

-steve

[johndtuttle]

Hi John,

Thank you for the heads up about the cages rusting.  From what I can tell, the cages or retainers are the cause of most problems in new bearings too.  All the parts can be made with the highest precision, but the cages/retainers are such flimsy little things that if they are not pressed into place and sit just right they will rub the balls and cause them to bind.

Has anyone here ever tried the full ceramic bearings?  They're really pricy but may avoid some of the cage/retainer problems.

I've been fishing with jigs tied on 1/4 and 3/8 ounce tungsten weights and need two of the four centrifugal brake shoes clicked on when using dry bearings.  Those few extra yards the dry bearings provide are very much appreciated though and it may be possible to drop down to 1/8 ounce.

-steve

Yes, and certainly for a Curado 70XG casting such light jigs is right up it's alley. I have never tried full ceramic bearings. I would be worried about their strength vs cost.


best

[oc1]

Don't tell my wife and kids, but I bought two fully ceramic bearings.  They're a little puzzling though.  The free spin time of a bearing on a mandrel is only about eight seconds.  But, they are very light weight; so light that there may not be enough mass/weight in the outer race and cage to keep them spinning.  I did not check free spool time on the reel and it may be similar.

As noted, when the reel was dialed in with the ceramic hybrid bearings I ended up with two of the four centrifugal brakes clicked on.  The dial that raises and lowers the centrifugal brake race (increasing and decreasing the pressure that each brake shoe can exert) was set at 2 (the range is 0 to 6).  The cast control knob is not putting any pressure on the spool.  With any less breaking, the reel would start to backlash early in the cast. Putting more force (muscle) into the cast would also yield a backlash early in the cast. The maximum casting distance was just shy of 40 yards using a sparse jig tied on a 1/4 ounce weight.

The fully ceramic bearings cast fine at these same settings and gave the same distance with the same jig.  However, when I started changing the settings it was possible to click off one of the centrifugal brake shoes (now using only one of the four) with the dial set at 4.  I could also put more force/muscle into the cast without backlash.  The distance increased a little and is now just over 40 yards.

I'm don't know what to think about this... other than I'm happy.  The dogma about fully ceramic bearings is that they are light weight so they can spin faster, and they do not corrode.  Since I was having to slow down the reel with the brakes, I did not think it would be possible for a faster bearing to make a difference in distance.  Also, I thought that a faster bearing would require more braking resistance, but I'm now using less braking.  It doesn't make sense.  The only think I can think of is that the fully ceramic bearings have a lower start-up speed early in the cast, but the speed does not diminish as much later in the cast, so you end up with a tad more distance.

-steve

Oh, and one more thing... Fully ceramic bearings are even more noisy than the orange seal ceramic hybrid bearings.

[oc1]

I've been fishing the Curado 70 on an 11 foot St. Croix 3S110ML2 blank rated for 1/16 to 3/8 ounce.  I tried using it to cast a jig tied on a 1/8 ounce weight.  The hook and dubbing add about 1/20 ounce and the total weight is 0.17 ounce (= 4.8 gram).  The St Croix failed miserably, would not load, and only cast about 13 yards.  

So, I got an inexpensive 9 foot, 2 weight fly rod blank (F902-2-MHX) and wrapped it for spinning and baitcasting.  It has BYAG spinning guides to the choke point and then KWAG running guides.  It stripper and choke are set-up for a Spinfisher 716Z.  The 716Z has 20# PowerPro with FG knot to 10 feet of 25# fluorocarbon cast through the guides.



The spinning reel on the fly rod could cast the smaller jig 24 yards.  Still less than I had hoped for.  I swapped the 716Z for the Curado 70 with the same rod, line, leader and jig.  The Curado cast exactly the same distance; 24 yards.  It worked best with two of the four centrifugal brakes engaged and 5 on the Infinity System dial



It appears that the rod, line, and leader are the limiting factors and both the Spinfisher 716Z and Curado 70 are probably capable of more.  I can try a smaller and slicker line, but have run out of ideas for a better rod blank to cast light jigs.
-steve

[cbar45]

It appears that the rod, line, and leader are the limiting factors and both the Spinfisher 716Z and Curado 70 are probably capable of more.  I can try a smaller and slicker line, but have run out of ideas for a better rod blank to cast light jigs.
-steve

I agree. 25lb. flouro leader to 20lb. braid is quite heavy stuff to be pulled by a 1/8 oz. jig--even with the FG connection.

You have the option of running a short leader with the knot outside the guides, but that may not be feasible where you fish.

The weight of those KWAG's is also slowing down the tip section a bit; Forhan-wrapped KTAG's or BLAG's would probably retain more of the blank's original crispness.

As you likely already know, true Fast and Extra-Fast action fly blanks make great ultralight spinners, but they can be hard to find. Another point I've noticed about building a fly-blank spinner, is that the conversion from wt. to oz. is usually off the lighter you go. i.e. A 2/3 wt. is technically the correct ball-park range to start for throwing 1/8 oz. (using the weight-divided-by-16 formula), but the actual power is lighter than what you would normally expect for a rod that will throw 1/8 oz.

In these cases it may help to bump up the weight from a 2 to a 4, or even 5. The examples pictured below are built on St. Croix 5 weights (model number escapes me at the moment), but they throw 1/8-1/4oz. quite a ways--although I'm using only 10-15 lb. braid, 6-10lb. yozuri flouro leader, and Shimano 500/750/1000 sized spinners.



As a side note, it's interesting you managed 24 yds. for both reels--on a dual-rung setup.