70 Sea Ford

[sdlehr]

Please post your questions about the chronology of this reel in this thread.

[sdlehr]

Since I got the O.R.C.A. book for Christmas I've been itching to find a project reel and try out some of the techniques I've read about. I found a Penn Seaford in pretty rough shape on the big auction site. The head plate bushing had broken out and it was pretty much trashed....



To make it an even uglier prospect, the former owner (I presume), the late John J Bradley, formerly of Washington St., Peekskill, NY, etched his name and address in the head and tail plates. Just to make sure no one stole his reel he put his name on it multiple times...



The surface damage to the side plates would come off with wet sanding; but that head plate with the messed up bushing was going to be a challenge... here's a closer view of the damage.... it also gives another perspective of the surface of the pinion that faces the bushing....



Here  was my plan: I would attempt to rebuild the broken side plate with 5-minute epoxy. I had to think ahead to the final product; the bushing had to be as close to perpendicular to the head plate as possible for reasonable free spool; it isn't likely I'll use the reel, but it would be nice for it to be fully functional as it sits on the shelf. I don't have a great picture of this part, but the part of the head plate that was remaining that would be in direct contact with the bushing retainer was only about 45 degrees around the retainer itself. I found the sweet spot with respect to free spool and placed a drop of super glue on the bushing retainer and it ran down into the area to affix the retainer to the head plate. I held onto the whole thing for a minute or two and let the super glue dry. Step one complete!





For the next several steps I would build up the area around the bushing retainer with 5-minute epoxy. I used the product from Gorilla Glue. I'm sure all 5-minute epoxies will work the same. I learned in the O.R.C.A. book that the addition of bakelite filings to the epoxy would color the epoxy the same color as the side plate. I had picked up a Penn 49 a few months ago, and like almost all the 49's around the plates had swelled and the trim rings cracked. I filed the plates down and installed new trim rings months ago and saved the filings just for this occasion... I was to apply the epoxy in stages and build up the broken side plate. The first stage was just straight epoxy without any filings added.



I took care to pay attention to both sides of my project



When the 5-minute epoxy is first mixed it is pretty fluidy, but it starts to set up pretty quickly. Before it set up I kept moving and tumbling the side plate so that the epoxy would not sag in any one direction. I only had to do that for a minute or so; it sets up pretty quickly.

I ended up adding epoxy in 3 applications on 3 successive evenings. Each event was more preparation than it was actually applying the epoxy and letting it set up. The key was to build up the side plate structure gradually in phases. I added bakelite filing to the second and third applications of epoxy. Here is another view after the first application



The second application really built up a lot of the structure of the new sideplate. This was what it looked like when I left it at the end of the second night.



I forgot to add that I swabbed the surfaces of the bakelite and epoxy with 91% IPA prior to each new epoxy application. It turns out that I didn't add enough filings to the epoxy on the second application; I found out on the third that it takes a lot of filings to really color the epoxy well. This was the end of the the third and final epoxy/filing application; and it sat overnight once again.




Tonight I came home and finished the project; I filed down the built-up area flat to match the original build;



I then took care of the names and addresses etched with great care into multiple places by wet sanding, starting with 320 grit and working my way up to 2000 grit. I have to say that I'm quite pleased with how this turned out, and quite amazed at how easy this really was; the key was to be patient and build up the structure slowly. It didn't come with a handle. I'm in the market, but don't really know which style handle I should put on it... if you have an opinion I'm all ears..... here's a few final shots of the finished product....









[URL=http://s1379.photobucket.com/user/sdlehr/media/Reel%20No_36%201938%20Sea%20Ford/DSC_7953_zps4fpfonld.jpg.html]







I really enjoyed this project; I tested myself, I did something I had never done before, it turned out really well, and I saved an old Seaford from the trash heap!!! Now, who has a handle for this lady???


Sid

Great save Sid .

It is a 1936-38 model so you should have the handle with the hard rubber type knob that imitates the early wooden hour glass style.

Sid,

Yardage on foot started in 36.

Plain Tail pates on most models went to graphics late 38-39 .

If i'm wrong Mike will correct the info .

This may work, Sid --

If Ray and Michael say it is correct.

This is the old hourglass rubber or some sort of plastic material knob, plus the correct crank nut that mimics a flying saucer with its dome shape.

Nut is NOS, handle is used -- but straight and very decent -- nice marbling in the grip -- black with slight green and yellow swirls.

Also have the old wood ones -- if Mike and Ray think that may be correct.

Let me know what works for your project -- N/C -- just need your address PM'd to make sure -- after you choose.

This is a pretty good used Seaford head sideplate -- and I believe yours looks better.

Best,

Fred

Fred,
I believe the one laying upside down in the back, may be the one he is looking for.  Should be the same as the one in this photo...

Could be, John --

However, that one is wood.

Whatever everyone decides on -- if I have it -- will go to Sid.

Could be, I do not have the correct one -- we will see.

Best,

Fred

Sid, you did a great job on your 1938 Sea Ford.

Here is a picture of a 1938 Sea Ford with the correct handle for that year. This handle and handle screw design is used for 1938 only. In 1939 Penn changed to the torpedo handle for the Sea Ford and in 1937, the catalog shows the hex nut handle without the locking nut. This handle is a tough find. it combines the old wood knob style with the new scalloped locking nut design.

The one in John's photo is the hard rubber knob, which is also correct.

Thanks, Mike. I'm trying to process all this information. The knob in the photo you posted, is it hard rubber? wood? plastic?  I can't tell from the photo. It seems what gave the age away was the combination of the scalloped handle nut and the plain tail plate. Later models had the scalloped nut but the torpedo handle knob. Earlier had the hex nut. Got it. I'll forget it after lunch, but I think I've got it now  Grin

The knob is my photo is wood, the knob in John's photo is hard rubber. Plastic or resin knobs do not apply to a 1938 Sea Ford. I am dating your reel in two ways. The tail plate is plain, making it a 1938 or earlier reel. The handle nut is scalloped making it a 1938 or later reel. Being that your reel is built with a plain tail plate and a scalloped handle nut, it cannot be anything other than a 1938 Sea Ford, which would use either my handle knob or John's.

Thanks, Mike. That makes it pretty clear and unambiguous. It seems that last week I received a Long Beach 60 from the same era with a handle that I thought might be a match - what do you think? Is this hard rubber or plastic? How can I tell? It doesn't look exactly like John's, I don't think it's wood. It might look a lot more like your wood one.... but the counterbalance is all wrong... drat!

I know you asked Mike, but IMHO.. that one looks to be a suitable 1938 handle.  Now I suppose you are looking for a ca.1938 LB handle ?

I know you asked Mike, but IMHO.. that one looks to be a suitable 1938 handle.  Now I suppose you are looking for a ca.1938 LB handle ?

Sid,

If you look closely you can usually see a line around the circumference on the widest part which indicates a hard rubber .

I can see a ridge of indents on yours so it is hard rubber. Perfect for this reel.

Ray

That would be nice, and, yes, that's the way this works, right? Now I need a handle for my LB....

Sid

I found this handle on the 80 I did a few months ago; it's wood, and I think has the same counterbalance...but is just a tad shorter than the other handle



If I can use this handle I won't need to find one suitable for the LB

Sid,
with regards to your #80 . It is correct for an #80.

The wood knob is the same as lots of early reels.  The blade would not be right for your Sea Ford because the coating should be polished chrome and should have a hole for a safety screw for the scalloped edged nut. The counterweight is too small for your Sea Ford. I often wondered how Penn employees got to know so many different parts that were used for different reels in the same Era.

It is correct for the #80 it is on.

Ray

[Lunker Larry]

Glad you got it sorted out. Great read and well done.

Larry

[George4741]

I need some vintage parts and found what I thought would be a good donor reel in this rough looking Sea Ford.  I stood Aristotle's quote on it's head and decided "the sum of it's parts are greater than the whole".  I was planning to use the handle and nut for my 1933 Kingfisher and the bars, spool, and stand could be used on other projects.

I disassembled the reel and found it to be in good, tight condition.    


I'm not sure what is going on with the head plate.  It is rough looking and an ugly brown color.  Notice there is no lube fitting for the gears, unlike Sid's Sea Ford.



The letter "V" is stamped on the counterbalance weight and twice on the reel foot.


Rather than part it out, I decided to clean it up and display in my collection.  Ugly reels need loving too.


As I earlier said, I wanted the original handle and nut to make my Kingfisher whole.  Will the handle and nut shown below be correct for this Sea Ford?  If not, then the search continues!

[Penn Chronology]

Your Sea Ford sort of looks like it was put together from reels that had different lives. The tail plate and head plate are correct for each other; but, have a very different patina.

Not having the lube fitting on the head plate of your Sea Ford means it is an earlier head plate than Sid's. Early Long Beach models do not have the lube fitting's also.

As I earlier said, I wanted the original handle and nut to make my Kingfisher whole.  Will the handle and nut shown below be correct for this Sea Ford?  If not, then the search continues

If you use a scalloped handle screw on a Sea Ford with a Hard Rubber Bell Shaped handle, the handle blade should be drilled for a locking screw. That would make it a correct 1938 model. The Sea Ford went to a Torpedo Handle in 1939. In 1937 the Sea Ford was still using the hex head screw for retaining a handle.

                 My statements are determined by catalog renditions of the build style of the reel. The catalogs, back then, reused the drawings, sometimes for many years. So making a blanket statement about what is 100% correct about a build style is never written in stone.

[George4741]

Thank you, Michael.  Since the sideplates are probably mismatched, I don't feel bad about installing the later model handle and scalloped screw on the Sea Ford.  I installed the older handle and hex screw on my Kingfisher and now it's historically correct.  This is the main reason I bought the Sea Ford, anyway.  



Now both reels look good, if you overlook the fact that neither of them are in pristine condition.

[Penn Chronology]

Thank you, Michael.  Since the sideplates are probably mismatched, I don't feel bad about installing the later model handle and scalloped screw on the Sea Ford.  I installed the older handle and hex screw on my Kingfisher and now it's historically correct.  This is the main reason I bought the Sea Ford, anyway. 



Now both reels look good, if you overlook the fact that neither of them are in pristine condition.Roll Eyes

Pristine condition is always nice to have; but, I never sell patina short. It gives character to an antique. Your reels look great to me. Both reels are correct for their vintage now.

[sdlehr]

Just picked up a 1933 Kingfisher Sea Ford for a song on the auction site! Will post photos after arrival. It's here for the time being, can't get to the photos I saw prior to the end of the auction....

[1badf350]

Nice score Sid!

[sdlehr]

Chris, my man! How are you? And thanks, this'll be right at home next to my '33 Kingfisher Long Beach.... hey, isn't it past your bedtime?

[Swami805]

I picked this reel up recently, unfortunately no handle or handle nut. Otherwise pretty good condition I think. What style handle and handle nut should I be looking for? More importantly do all the other parts look correct for this reel? Thanks Sheridan

[Penn Chronology]

Re: 70 Sea Ford

« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:56:55 AM »
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I picked this reel up recently, unfortunately no handle or handle nut. Otherwise pretty good condition I think. What style handle and handle nut should I be looking for? More importantly do all the other parts look correct for this reel? Thanks Sheridan  

Very nice example of an early Sea Ford. The handle and the handle are key to dating the reels.  By the color of your reel, I would place in the 1934 to 1936 class, so the handle you should strive to find is this one. Either the wood or hard rubber handle knob would be correct. All the other parts on the reel seem to be correct. Very nice find.

[Swami805]

Thank you, I looked thru your book and the thread on colored plates, a fair amount of variation among the parts and reels. The hunt begins for the handle and nut!