Carbontex drag greasing query

Started by lostangler, July 15, 2016, 08:38:48 AM

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lostangler

Hi Guys,
I am fairly new to the reel modding game. I have picked up a set of carbon washers for a tiny penn multiplier. Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to lube the dry washers? Can they go in dry? Or I have some copper slip, would that work?
Cheers,
Mark

Tiddlerbasher

You need a Teflon/ptfe based grease. Most on this forum probably use Cal's or Shimano drag grease. This will give you very a very smooth drag. Don't use ordinary grease. On a star drag smear on plenty of grease and work it into the cf. On a lever drag do the same but wipe off the excess until it's barely visible.

canoecaper

I was one of the first to use Penn's carbon washers in Europe.  Mick Simmons upgraded me the moment they appeared.
What a revelation.  They went in other reels as well, quick as a flash, always meticulously dry.
The concept of greased washers is both alien and fairly new to me.
There is an improvement but mainly from the satisfaction of playing with Cal's grease and a fresh "Smooth Drag" stack.
Ground washers are nice too.
Official recommendation is minimum grease.
My experience is, it doesn't seem to make any difference on my narrow converted Senator 114H with steel bridge, steel sleeve and a big star.
Slap it on and slap them in.  Drag is initially super smooth but disappointing.
However, after you have wound it up a bit, a decent working set up emerges.
On test, my 80lb rated attachment clip, cut my 80lb mono leader at 25lbs off the top.  (Bimini twist tied to a good swivel next time.)
The pressures are just so great, any surplus gets squeezed out.  They strip down looking almost dry.
This may be completely different with a lighter duty set up or a lever drag.
Does smoke still pour off a Senator with a modern set up as it used to in the '50s and '60s.
The old films shew water being poured over them to keep them cool when a big fish was on.  Fresh water I hope.
I believe, this was the main reason for the lever drag Internationals, all machined from alloy, in the first place.
Much better heat dissipation.
Do we get better heat dissipation with Cal's grease?
Not really an issue in the UK.  Most anglers never need their drags.  They just wind them up tight.
Our liking for long rods helps here, by absorbing plunges.
Do that with a big conger though and unless your buddies are quick you will be over the side.
Catching smaller members of the shark family (tope and smoothhounds), from the shore is different.
You will need 400yards of 20lb mono and you will use it.  Go heavier and casting a big bait 120yards gets tricky.

Any one any experience of AFTCO Wind Ons and heavy duty tip tops?  There must be a snag, there always is.

Rambling of an old s.. over.

Rgds.
Malcolm Hayward

Bill B

Mark as Tiddlebasher stated a teflon/PTFE grease will make an enormous difference in the smoothness of the drag stack....what we are doing is eliminating any "sticking" or jerking of the drags....a sticking drag will momentarily pull more drag than you initially set, and the fish will be exceeding the breaking strength of the line... in the US,  Cal Sheets (Cals) or Shimano drag grease is used....others will chime in as to what is available in you neighborhood....with a star drag more grease is enough and with a lever drag less is better, but grease IS needed....I am not familiar with your "copper slip", my limited research in "copper slip" is it will not work, as it is an anti-seize compound preventing metal parts from bonding together and not as a lubricant....we are looking for a lubricant in the drag stack to promote slippage (yes I know this sounds backwards, but yes we are looking for the drags to slip SMOOTHLY, and not hang up and jerk).....There are some very in depth threads Alan has done regarding greased drags and well worth looking for....way more information than I have written here.....Bill
It may not be very productive,
but it's sure going to be interesting!

Tiddlerbasher


exp2000

#5
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on November 05, 2016, 10:43:27 AM

At the moment I'm using a cheaper alternative Quick Silver 2-4-C Marine grease with Teflon - I use it on everything not just drags.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QUICKSILVER-2-4-C-227g-Marine-Grease-Mercury-Mercruiser-92-802859Q1-/150999419221?hash=item2328444955:g:LFMAAOSwDk5T~g9Y


A friend gave me some of this to try. It looks to be some pretty good stuff but I haven't used it yet because:

To quote another form member, " It smells like a bunch of dead cockroaches"  :D
~

Tiddlerbasher

I haven't noticed any particular smell - just smells like grease to me :-\

Robert Janssen


Quote from: lostangler
I have some copper slip, would that work?

Quote from: TARFU
...my limited research in "copper slip" is it will not work, as it is an anti-seize compound preventing metal parts from bonding together and not as a lubricant....

Actually, the problem with copper antiseize is that it works and feels very good to begin with, but drastically loses viscosity with increased temperature. So the drag will be very smooth indeed, and continue to be, but on a running fish drag pressure falls rapidly to like half of what was to begin with, and for this reason should not be considered suitable for this purpose. I did some tests with this fifteen years ago or so.

Quote from: canoecaper
I was one of the first to use Penn's carbon washers in Europe.... always meticulously dry.
The concept of greased washers is both alien and fairly new to me.
Official recommendation is minimum grease.
Do we get better heat dissipation with Cal's grease?
....

Yes, for many years they were to be installed dry. Not leastly because there wasn't a suitable lubricant available (actually, there was, but they didn't use it. Dunno why. Perhaps because it worked well dry, and simple is good) but also because application of the wrong type of grease was detrimental.

I guess part of the equation with grease is heat dissipation, yes. And apply sparingly; it says so right there on the can.

Quote from: TARFU
..what we are doing is eliminating any "sticking" or jerking of the drags....a sticking drag will momentarily pull more drag than you initially set... Cal Sheets (Cals) or Shimano drag grease is used....others will chime in as to what is available in you neighborhood....with a star drag more grease is enough and with a lever drag less is better, but grease IS needed.... we are looking for the drags to slip SMOOTHLY, and not hang up and jerk

Yes. The thing is though, that Penn's HT-100 and its sibling Carbontex are absolutely stellar friction materials, with negligible stick-slip at a wide range of temperatures and pressures. Installed in a clean, flat drag, performance is still excellent. Which is why Penn did so for twenty-thirty years.

However, I guess there is always room for improvement, which is why Cal developed his special formula grease, which works very well. However, there is more to it than just adding Teflon. (I experimented with a few other different Teflon greases. Most were inferior, some very much so.) Cal actually did tell me once what was in his grease and why, but I don't remember. I wouldn't divulge his secret anyway, but it would've been nice to remember sometimes.

So YMMV of course, and experimentation is a good thing, but just reaching for the first jar on the shelf that says Teflon, is perhaps not the way to go.

Just get the Cal's. Job done.