Braid - Mono - Flouro

[bigggfish]

I have a couple of long range trips coming up.  Born and raised as a straight mono lad, I have been dragged into the braid and flouro world.  Thought I would get some input from the experts.  What do you prefer when using braid/spectra.  Braid tied directly to a short flouro leader or Braid tied to a mono topshot tied to short flouro leader.  If you could give a short explanation why that would be helpful. 


Thanks for your input in advance.

[alantani]

phew!  where to start?

i put hollow core spectra on all of my long range reels.  i go for 300 to 500 yards, depending on the application.  the nice thing about hollow core is that you can chop it up into 20 pieces, do the end-to-end splice and it comes out perfect.

solid spectra is half the price, but if you need to add more, you are looking at a uni-to-uni knot or bimini-to-bimini.  it works, but is not as elegant or as strong as an end-to-end splice.

for the top shot connection, i mostly use my own modification of a slim beauty knot.  a tony pena works fine.  so does the old school bimini and albright.  if you want to do a loop-to-loop connection, you can. i've just found that it saves little time on the boat and it's alot more work to make the wind ons.  they are very expensive to buy!!!!

for mono, i an personally back to 25 to 50 yard mono topshots with no fluoro.  i've sort of given up on fluoro.  i have a full inventory of berkeley big game clear and a small inventory of blue izor.  i like the izor alot, but big game has served me well for many years.  if the cost is not an issue, you can't go wrong with fluro.  here, it's one of those "pay your money and take your choice" kind of situations.  unless we're talking about tuna in a 100-200 pound class, i just don't see the cost/benefit. 

lot's of other guys will certainly chime in.  that's just my take for san diego long range fishing.  good luck!  alan

[jzman]

I sort of follow Alan and do solid spectra backin with 50-100 yard mono top shot connected with an FG knot.  The 50-100 yard top shot is the length at which you think you can cast out plus 20/30 yards.  This is to prevent the connection from going through the all the guides at 40-50 mph and possibly cause a backlash and/or weakening the knot.  There are also many other benefits for braid backing + 50-100 yd top shot:
             1.  If you get into tangles, you will lose most of the mono and you can retie with mono.  If they cut your spectra its likely going to be a tangled unusable expensive mess.
             2.  Birds nest are less likely and easier to clean up on mono.  Spectra has to be wound perfectly and tight to be able to cast it again.
             3.  The mono will see most of the wear.  The spectra backing will most likely be good for 2-3 or more years without changing it.
             4.  Mono stretches which is good in most surface fishing.  No pulled hooks.
In short, mono is very forgiving.  Also, a lot of love for Berkeley Big Game.  Best place to get it is Wally world.

I only use fluoro when I'm not getting bit and people using fluoro are  .  Connection for me is the triple surgeon to mono.  Length of fluoro is from the tip of the rod to the reel.  When I cast then the knot is only hitting 2 to 3 guides which isn't too bad.

Full spectra has its benefits like for bottom fishing or kelp cutter rig.

Alan, any reason for not splicing mono directly into the main hollow core line?  (I have no experience using hollow core)

[MarkT]

I like some fluoro when fishing for tuna. I've never noticed a difference with YT. I did catch a couple of BFT earlier this year without fluoro so I don't consider it mandatory. When it's hard to buy a bite I'll tie some on to my mono. Fluoro is tougher than mono and theoretically less visible so it's good in a tough bite or as a bite leader.

[alantani]

normally guys will make up a half dozen heavy wind on's and just switch them out as needed. when you do that, you have to remember to make a new loop on the main line.  

[MarkT]

You don't just cut the loop on the wind on and reuse the loop on the mainline?

[Rivverrat]

For wind ons  I leave my spliced loop in the braid until it starts showing wear which is hardly ever.
I use a little more mono than needed for my longest possible cast. That way when the inevitable snag in the river happens I can cut my mono & not the more expensive braid... Changing out a loop to loop connection of say 50 yards or less can actually be done pretty quick. However I  usually have a same or like combo on hand to pitch out & soak while I'm making the change. We are allowed 3 lines in the water at a time here.....Kind of stupid....Jeff

[SoCalAngler]

Like Allan said "where to start".

IMO the main reason to use braided lines is to fish smaller reels for larger fish that could not be caught on those smaller reels do to line capacity. Reels that you have and have caught the size fish targeted in years past will work the same today without a braid backing.

Now if your going to fish the newer smaller reels that have the same stopping and cranking power of the older larger reels then braid may be needed to give you the same or more line capacity of the older larger reels.

Another factor is how long is a long range trip? Most trips 8-10 days in length out of So Cal will not put you into cow tuna unless your very lucky or you flash back to 2005 when many cow tuna were caught in 8 day range. Of course it could happen so one must be prepared.

For me when 60 lb test or less topshots are used I strait tie on my toppers. Some of these setups I fish braid to a short fluorocarbon topper (mainly live bait setups). On other rigs I fish braid to longer mono toppers. On these I fish a topshot longer than the casts I can make so the connection of braid to mono will not be going through the rods guides causing problems, (mainly surface iron and popper setups). I will also add a short piece of fluoro on top of the mono when needed. I use toppers like this when fishing plastics too but most likely you won't use plastics on a long range trip.

There was a good point made about tangles and many times these come in the first 50-100 yards of your line, though they can come in way deeper. Tangles in spectra can and most likely are bad and hard to undue, damage your braid or both. So there is a learning curve then you fish spectra on sport boats out of So Cal.

Damaged spectra can be spliced together. Say you you have solid spectra backing on your reel and you have to cut out some for what ever reason. Sure you can tie a uni to uni to go from solid to solid but you can also do a solid to hollow connection to add some hollow spectra on top of the solid to gain back the yardage you lost without having to go with the more costly hollow on the whole spool.

Also stated loop to loop connections have their place especially if your going to make or buy your leaders/toppers in advance of your trip. These can give you an advantage also. Say you have a couple reels for big game like a 50 and 30 sized two speed reels. Ok, your 50 is ready to go with 200 lb braid and 130 lb loop to loop but the fish are picky and want 100 lb test or your on your 30 with 150 lb spectra and 100 lb topper but the fish want 80 lb toppers. With a loop to loop all you have to do is change topshots and make sure you don't over fish the new topper and your golden.

As you see this whole braid thing has many variables.

[ReelFishingProblems]

I'm one of the sad lot that does not have a boat (army won't ship boats ) so I mostly fish from the rocks in Pacific Grove. I use 65lb braid and 15-20 foot fluoro. I like the braid to cut through all the kelp that gathers near structure. I'm no expert, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Nick,
Monterey, CA

[Newell Nut]

Used to live in Pacific Grove too. That kelp is some seriously thick stuff.

[ReelFishingProblems]

Used to live in Pacific Grove too. That kelp is some seriously thick stuff.

I swear I lost a long cod in it on Tuesday. But it was probably just kelp lost on kelp

[SoCalAngler]

I'm one of the sad lot that does not have a boat (army won't ship boats ) so I mostly fish from the rocks in Pacific Grove. I use 65lb braid and 15-20 foot fluoro. I like the braid to cut through all the kelp that gathers near structure. I'm no expert, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Nick,
Monterey, CA

Nick, maybe another thread should be started on this topic about fishing in kelp with braided line as a "kelp cutter" rig? I use to do this too but I have found about 95% of the time it is not the line getting in the kelp but the hook, terminal tackle, hooked fish or live bait that causes these tangles. There a few techniques in the way you fish kelp that can reduce your tangles. IMO a kelp cutter rig will only help in the rare occasion when a large fish parallel to the kelp and a couple of strands rub against your line.   

[Gfish]

Pacific Grove - beautiful town Reelfishingproblem. Can you get access to a kayak? Use to live up in Fremont and the M. Bay kelp forest is where I started, with a 10' tippy inflatable. I scuba'ed from shore and saw a-lota rockfish, lings etc. that weren't fished for, before I decided to buy the yak and try it. It's easy to drop a 1-4 oz. jig straight down to where they hang at the rocks/ kelp trunks from up in the middle of the kelp patch at the surface(no rudder though!)and you can really go lite like with bass n' trout tackle. I know there's a-lot more people doin' it now(started in the 90's), but so much fun!
Question relevant to this thread: Don' t you guys find that with big saltwater bait-casters, spinners and say up to 4/0 conventional reels, that you can get better distance and faster deep drops(important on a partyboat), by getting more braid into the cast and less mono? To me, the memory and stiffness of mono has me goin' to ever shorter leaders...
Gfish

[Fishy247]

I use 65lb braid and 15-20 foot fluoro.

Nick- I'm in Santa Cruz and fish rockfish and lingcod quite a bit. That's pretty much the same setup that I use, except I drop down to 30# braid and 20# fluoro. I had a 60# bat ray take me into the kelp with that setup and I got it out unscathed after about 15 minutes...

Mike