welcome to penn university!!!!!

[ez2cdave]

I'm finding it hard to understand why China is producing Penn reels. Is there not a patent on Penn name and design? I personally do not own any Penn reels that were not made in the US. and I would not perchance a Chinese product that I could buy in the US made by US manufactures. But that's me, I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money.

Joe    

Hi, Joe,

To me, the answer is simple. Penn has outsourced production of all but their high-end reels ( Internationals, for example ) to China. Most reels are actually being manufactured in China with the "Made In The USA" claim coming from the fact that many reels are only "Assembled In The USA". I believe that Penn's low-cost reels may actually be Chinese reels that are "branded" for Penn ( color choices and slight trim / machining differences ).

Obviously, unless Penn wants to say that Chinese manufacturing is superior to USA manufactruing, this is to reduce production cost and maintain or increase profit margins.

Alan Hawk has shown this to be the case with many other companies, as well.

http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/rebdd.html

The reels in the pics below (2014) are identical, mechanically.

Tight Lines !

[oc1]

That's pretty convincing Dave.

I've only bought one modern Penn.  A cheap little Penn Fierce that looked much like ones in the photos.  Used it once and it corroded inside and froze.  Cleaned, re-lubed and used it again.  Same result.  The second time I opened it I didn't bother to reassemble and just threw all the parts in the trash.

It seems like they are trying to cash in on the name to make some quick bucks and keep the company afloat.  You have to feel sorry for them if making a quality product in the US is no longer a viable business plan.  But, if I did not have a fifty year personal history with Penn and the Fierce was my first reel what would be my impression of the company as a whole?  Are they killing the goose that laid the golden egg?
-steve

[alantani]

tough crowd, huh, tony!!!   

[coastal_dan]

Coming from a younger generation I can understand some of the apprehension of the older gents with a company moving overseas when it was at one time 'All American' but lets get real for a minute...a $50 - $100 Penn Spinning reel made in the United States? With hourly wages, healthcare costs and overhead that is impossible...especially with minimum wages going up and healthcare skyrocketing.

I, for one, think its awesome that they've kept SO MANY products being assembled in the U.S., understandably not every single part is made in the U.S. on these higher priced reels, but Tony was quite open about that a few posts back.

Walking through we were shown their new CNC machine, correct me if I'm wrong, but that was a $300,000 product investment into the company...that doesn't count training hours and 'Oops' costs of learning a machine...so lets say it was a $400,000 investment.  That is flippin' awesome!...That goes beyond profits and accounting...that is forward thinking, forward process and forward engineering!

If you go back in time Penn had quite a few products made in Japan as well back in the 1980's.. the C series spinners and the Spincast reels.

I'll end with this, not everyone needs a $250 spinning reel...for freshwater scenarios a $25 - $40 spinner will do the trick fantastically for MANY years.  Saltwater scenarios call for a different reel in a different price bracket.  I have been very happy with my new Penn reels which have been made in the US as well as overseas.  My SSV has been with me for about 5 years now with the factory gears and still is going strong!

I'm rambling, but you get my drift...lower price reels just can't be made in the U.S.  Accurate reels are made in the U.S. but their cheapest conventional is $234 with only a AR bearing and no dogs...so they are "de-engineering" to save costs
and many think that it's not the right route..but they are doing what they have to do...folks want to spend less while getting the absolute best.

Have a nice evening all!

[ez2cdave]

That's pretty convincing Dave.

I've only bought one modern Penn.  A cheap little Penn Fierce that looked much like ones in the photos.  Used it once and it corroded inside and froze.  Cleaned, re-lubed and used it again.  Same result.  The second time I opened it I didn't bother to reassemble and just threw all the parts in the trash.

It seems like they are trying to cash in on the name to make some quick bucks and keep the company afloat.  You have to feel sorry for them if making a quality product in the US is no longer a viable business plan.  But, if I did not have a fifty year personal history with Penn and the Fierce was my first reel what would be my impression of the company as a whole?  Are they killing the goose that laid the golden egg?
-steve

Steve,

A company named Haibo Fishing Reels makes the reels for the following companies ; Quantum, Penn, Fin-Nor ,Zebco, Rhino, Abu Garcia, Balzer , Shakespeare, Pinnacle and Revox.

( The ENGLISH page reads DIFFERENTLY than the Chinese page - Brands are listed here )

http://www.haibofishingreel.com/?lan=cn

http://www.haibofishingreel.com/?lan=en

The Penn Fierce, Battle and Conflict appear to be rebranded Pflueger reels ( I wonder who actually makes the "Pflueger" reels ? )

http://forums.tackletour.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56565

At any rate, I am virtually positive that Newell Brands owners of Jarden & PureFishing is behind the scenes on these actions !

http://purefishing.com/our-brands/

http://www.bassfan.com/docktalk_article/16949/report:-newell-makes-major-cuts-to-pure-fishing

EXCERPTS:

(1) "According to an article in today's edition of The Outdoor Wire, Newell Brands has started to make sweeping changes to Pure Fishing, one of the fishing brands included in its massive acquisition of Jarden Corporation earlier this year."

(2) "Pure Fishing is the parent company of well-known fishing brands Berkley, Abu Garcia, Penn, Fenwick, Stren, Mitchell, Pflueger, Shakespeare, Spiderwire, among others."

(3) "The moves are cost-cutting measures as Newell looks to reduce Jarden's operating costs by as much as $500 million and comes at a time when Newell is set to announce additional acquisitions totalling $570 million (click here), According to The Outdoor Wire article, Newell may not renew any sponsorship agreements when they expire, including Pure Fishing's deal with B.A.S.S., which will expire next year."

(4) "The article also raises the possibility that Newell may eventually look to sell off some of the Pure Fishing brands despite positive sales results in the third quarter, according to Newell's quarterly report released in October."

END EXCERPTS :

"Is Newell Getting Ready to Dispose of Pure Fishing? "

http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/features/231352

Tight Lines !

[foakes]

Thanks, Dan --

Well stated...

As we sit at our computers -- we need to realize that although we think this is a large site (and it is the best in the world, IMO) -- We are still just a few thousand reel nerds -- who each have different opinions.

The vast majority of Penn's business is not targeted at us -- it is focused on the rest of the world who just wants to go fishing -- and cannot afford or justify a $1000 expense for a couple of reels and rods made in the US.

So I admire Penn for offering a compromise for us -- as well as the average Angling consumer.

Penn is part of a much larger Corporation -- and as such -- is required, in order to stay in business -- to attain certain profitability percentages -- based on ROI, wage expense, manufacturing expense, as well as a company growth percentage annually.

This is their livlihood -- and they are doing a good job of operating in the real world.

Just my opinions.

Best to All,

Fred

[ez2cdave]

Do THESE look familiar ?

http://www.haibofishingreel.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&typeid=6

http://www.haibofishingreel.com/index.php?case=archive&act=show&aid=238

http://www.haibofishingreel.com/index.php?case=archive&act=show&aid=237

http://www.haibofishingreel.com/index.php?case=archive&act=show&aid=236

Tight Lines !

[ez2cdave]

http://www.haibofishingreel.com/index.php?case=archive&act=show&aid=209



Tight Lines !

[Reel 224]

I still love Penn reels after all I've read here, I am 70 years old and admittedly I am disappointed that all Penn reels are not made in the US. But as others have pointed out the other manufactures out source also. As far as I'm concerned I am happy that Tony has offered his knowledge and support to us ( the Alan Tani members).

Joe   

[RowdyW]

I don't see anything wrong with the Chinese made reels.In fact they are using more stainless steel instead of brass & chrome plated brass that pits & corrodes. They have also replaced the brass screws with ss screws which are stronger. On the Senators & Special Senators The only weak point that I see is the end of the gear sleeve which is hollow & has a nut instead of the H style with a screw to support the inside of the sleeve. The H2 style is more prone to shearing off in the handle area. But a cure for that is to install an H style sleeve in brass or ss with a screw for the handle.                Rudy

[Tunanorth]

tough crowd, huh, tony!!!  

It should be noted that the PENN "Applause" is a non-USA market product. Both the European and "Southern Hemisphere" [SA, NZ, Au] business units have considerable leeway to offer products for their own market needs.
Also, having been in the tackle industry since 1969, it is indeed true that the hardcore members of this site are very atypical of the angling public as a whole.
At the lower end of the scale, by far the most important consideration for most anglers is price.
If you show them a reel with a $700 price tag, they are aghast, and wonder if that includes a boat.
However, those same anglers will not settle for a generic reel just because it hits a price they can afford. They still demand performance features like light weight, high drag numbers, fast gear ratios, etc, etc.
That dictates offshore build, period.
PENN makes about 50 current reel SKU's in the USA. With spinning reels specifically, the US-built "Z" series spinning reels are about $199 retail. Check the pricing of any other US-built spinner, or for that matter, any actual "made in Japan" spinner; you won't find a lot under $500.

[Tightlines667]

I don't see anything wrong with the Chinese made reels.In fact they are using more stainless steel instead of brass & chrome plated brass that pits & corrodes. They have also replaced the brass screws with ss screws which are stronger. On the Senators & Special Senators The only weak point that I see is the end of the gear sleeve which is hollow & has a nut instead of the H style with a screw to support the inside of the sleeve. The H2 style is more prone to shearing off in the handle area. But a cure for that is to install an H style sleeve in brass or ss with a screw for the handle.                Rudy

Interesting.. never really yook a close look at these.

[handi2]

I can confirm that the Penn Battle, Sargus, Fierce, and so on have the same drive train as the Pfueger reel. I don't remember the exact model Pflueger reel it was. I used the Penn main and pinion gear to repair the reel and took pictures. They are on another iPad.

Now the Penn reel had other metal parts while the Pflueger reels were plastic.

They may share parts but the Penn used better material.

I posted the reel on the Stripers Online forum a while back. Here is the link if it will work.

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/665986-what-reel-is-this/

Keith

[ez2cdave]

I can confirm that the Penn Battle, Sargus, Fierce, and so on have the same drive train as the Pfueger reel. I don't remember the exact model Pflueger reel it was. I used the Penn main and pinion gear to repair the reel and took pictures. They are on another iPad.

Now the Penn reel had other metal parts while the Pflueger reels were plastic.

They may share parts but the Penn used better material.

I posted the reel on the Stripers Online forum a while back. Here is the link if it will work.

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/665986-what-reel-is-this/

Keith

Hi, Keith,

The Pflueger Infusion may be the reel you're trying to recall . . .

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/sargu8.html

EXCERPT :

When I first saw the Sargus, it looked quite familiar, then something flashed in my head; the Pflueger Infusion! They are not just alike, they are actually the exact same reel inside out, only one dressed in Penn colour schemes and the other in Pflueger's.

But is it really a Pflueger? Absolutely not. Not even a Penn. Pflueger effectively vanished when the company was acquired by Shakespeare in 1965, and Penn vanished years ago when it was sold to a conglomerate that mainly focuses on lower cost production and maximum profit regardless of such things as a brand's character. Those reels are now made in China by contractors who don't care if the reel is going to be called a Penn, a Pflueger, a Mitchell, a Shakespeare, or an Abu Garcia, all are brands that are now owned by the same conglomerate. Gone are the days when my father used to call Penn for spare parts and hear a familiar voice who in turn recognises my old man and asks him if little me has been hooked on the sport yet.

END EXCERPT :

Tight Lines !

[ez2cdave]

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10227.0