alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial 113h/114h senator - short version
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: 113h/114h senator - short version  (Read 212459 times)
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alantani
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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2011, 08:18:02 AM »

what happened the first go around?
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brosme
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2011, 05:32:16 AM »

wonder if you can help.
Done some scanning but cant seem to find the right answer.
got a penn senator 114 - some of the gear teeth broke, got a replacement part, installed, but now the reel wont freespool.  got another 114 so compared the two, there seems to be nothing missing or tight or loose, any ideas.
many thanks
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2011, 05:41:56 AM »

Do you have any play from the spool when you move it side to side?
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Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
brosme
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 08:13:02 AM »

theres no sideways play.
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brosme
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2011, 08:14:16 AM »

love your quote.
B
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2011, 08:54:08 AM »

Try  loosening up the left side bearing until you feel a little movement with the spool. On this reels you should always have a little movement when you move the spool side to side. Let me know if that helps.
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Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
brosme
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2011, 10:08:30 AM »

Heyyyy, fantastic, thats done the trick completely.
Ive waited a long time before i got the replacement part, then when it didnt freespool in spite of being taken apart several times i laid the reel to one side.  So many thanks, really appreciated.

A little video of a very enjoyable sea fishing trip inland - not far from where i live.
bertie
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2011, 10:22:38 AM »

Glad it worked out for you, what part of the world are you from? Nice video.
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Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
metalman
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2011, 12:56:29 AM »

Hi everyone!
MAJOR newb here to overhauling reels! I've "aquired" an old 113 senator, no "h" or "hlw" or anything like that Cry
Thanks to Alan, who gave me the link to the 111 senator, I have everything apart (I didn't know the Star Drag Wheel unscrewed Tongue).
Well, the washers kind of "fell apart", so I have questions:
1) Washers: 3-fiber washers/2-spring washers/2-brass washers (1-keyed)/1-spacer/1-looks like a little hat or button?
   Seems like I"m missing some washers? I don't have any washers that have outside "teeth" (slotted?)
2) Seems like when I got the main gear off the bridge with sleeve, as I was wiping the junk out, looks like there could have been some kind of tiny
   fiber washer there. Am I right? or was it a regular fiber washer like the other washers?
3) I have a total of only 2 springs that are the same in width and height, I think I'm supposed to have 6??!! Hmm....seems like the guy who bragged he
    overhauled it, "must have had some extra parts" Angry.

*I saw on this thread and the 111 senator thread, that you guys switched out the washer set with something better.
Kind of anxious to do that, since I'm afraid of getting the wrong washers/parts for this older reel. 
Should I be doing the washer set up for the 111 or the 113h? and can I use the washers Rob mentioned, so I dont' have to dremel the side plate?!
Thanks in advance, and especially to Alan, that got me started...(ugh...or is that a good thing?!) Grin Grin
Aloha,
metalman
p.s. I was VERY scared to do this, don't want to "ruin" anything or just get plain STUCK, but being broke, kind of forced to learn (which I wanted to do anyway, so I can fix my reels and help my friends out (pay it forward kind of thing) Smiley
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alantani
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2011, 07:51:36 AM »

you can use the 5 metal and 5 carbon fiber washer stack inside the main gear.   the drag washers are penn ht-100 $6-60's.  for the drag washers UNDER the main gear, i had been using the thicker #6-113.  that is why i had to dremmel the side plate.  dawn from smoothdrag.com has a thinner washer that will hold up under the pressure.  send a pm if you want a set.  as far as breaking something goes, it will happen eventually.  don't sweat it, though.  we all went through it. 
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metalman
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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2011, 12:47:39 AM »

Hey Guys,
I just finished putting in the dog spring for the 2nd time, and it went in "ok". I noticed while I was doing it, it seemed like the "gap" was a little tight
for the spring. On the schematics for my original 113, it has the dog and the kind of spring (slinky spring) like the 111 and the 113h, but the molded housing on the right side plate that all this is going into, isn't molded like that Angry!!! It's molded like the pic on the 114 on this thread Huh? It has that little molded button on the left side of the dog. When I first took this reel apart, it had the dog and the spring like the 114 pics show!  Tongue
So...which spring is it that I'm supposed to use Huh? I guess the original 113 is like a hybrid between the 111/113h and the 114??
Seems like I lost that 114 looking dog spring, but I still have the dog.

Thanks for your help,
Metalman
p.s. yeesh, I think learning to WELD was easier!!! Tongue
 Grin Grin Grin
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 12:50:01 AM by metalman » Logged
Norcal Pescador
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« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2011, 08:47:57 AM »

Hmmmm ....
If the dog looks like it should go in the 114h (with both sides flat) then a flat brass spring. If it has a cutout (recess) for a coil spring then that's what I would recommend.  Do you have access to any brass or stainless sheet metal stock? If so, you could try to make a flat spring into a slightly open "L" shape. Alan probably has a better idea. Grin
Let us know how things work.
Rob
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Rob

Measure once, cut twice. Or is it the other way around? Roll Eyes

"A good man knows his limits." - Inspector Harry Callahan, SFPD
metalman
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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 07:34:41 AM »

Rob,
sorry for the late reply Smiley I went to the local store near me and got the dog and dog spring (and 1 extra). The dog is 2x bigger than the dog I took out of there. My old dog didn't have a number stamped on it, and this new dog has stamped "15-114H".
I'm guessing that I have an old 113, because this reel had black side plates and only says "Penn Senator 4/0" I doesn't say 113, or 113H or anything else.
So I got the schematics for the 4/0 113 Senator.
When I get home from work today, I"ll take the reel apart again, and try the old dog and the flat-sheet dog spring.
Mahalo,
Metalman
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2011, 04:43:34 AM »

Metalman, I think that you are purchasing the wrong parts for your reel, the spring on a 113 is part #14-99 and the dog #15-99. I've never seen a flat spring on a 113, it is usually a coiled spring. Hope this helps, Sal Smiley
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 04:45:26 AM by Alto Mare » Logged

Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
metalman
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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2011, 05:04:19 AM »

Sal, thanks for posting. Dude, I'm trying EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!! Cry
I've tried the dog and spring like you said, and THAT is what they show in the schematic for the 113, but the right side plate ISN'T like that!!
Instead of having the "gap" to fit the spring in, it has a little post, like the one on the 114h, that the flat spring goes around. When I took it apart, it had the dog and flat dog spring like the 114h, but the dog was just 1/2 the size. It's 3:03 am and I'm so upset at myself for not figuring this out, I'm REALLLLLLY tempted to ask Alan how much he would charge to overhaul this thing, and tell me what I'm doing wrong!!! Not much money to do that, but emotions are getting the best of me Sad
Well, I better go catch a couple hours of sleep, and then off to work....
thanks Sal,
bert aka Metalman
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