Does This Make Sense

Started by Rivverrat, March 18, 2017, 10:33:06 PM

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Reel 224

I personally don't understand the theory or style that is being discussed here, but my fishing experience and love of the sport has been the fact of fighting the fish at the end of my line by feeling the action of the rod tension and the fight of the fish. I suppose if you have line strong enough to winch a tank, then you could winch the quarry in like a toe truck toeing a broken-down car. I would say that Sid was rite on with over thinking this. With all due respect to your question.

Joe
"I don't know the key to success,but the key to failure is trying to please everyone."

Jeri

Hi All,

Having read through the original author's information on a static load test - it goes towards finding or at least highlighting potentiaqlly the better places to place rings on a rod, in a variety of potitions - angles of incline. However, what he is trying to skip across too quickly, is that any rod is infact a lever 'against' the angler, and by actually reducing that leverage aspect to zero - we come to a point, where the angler can exert maximum pressure on the fish, which is actually greater than the rod might be able to withstand.

When we all strted angling - usually under the supervision of an elder and more wise angler, we learned a very harsh early lesson, never use the rod in a high position to pull for a break from an underwater obstruction,. always pull with the rod horizontal - so as not to break the rod. Only with a rod in this aspect can we pull much harder than the rod might allow us, and break the line.

So, the original author is suggesting that from a position at 0 degrees - horizontal, right round to 90 degrees, the profile and power potential of the rod varies, and as such the positioning of rings and other components vary for best effect.

Unfortunately, while very correct, a lot of modern day blanks with very high strength carbon content will not actually suffer true 90 degree deflection without approaching failure. In cases, where such an action is needed, then lower layers of the rod blank construction are glass fibre to allow that kind of bending without failure. Which drives common folklore to the belief that rods held at 45 degrees are potentially at their maximum power.

It is all a case of the science of levers and the actual composition of the blank and its design strength. A very European or English method of describing the actual strength of the blank, is 'test curve' - the weight that will pull the rod first round to 90 deegrees, this then gives an indication of the strength of the actual blank, which then leads to the final performance parameters. The American system of giving numbers from 1 to 10 would seem to have similar attributes, but I have been able to find critical values for any of the numbers between 1 and 10. For in either system, pulling the rod round beyond 90 degrees doesn't actually produce more power.

So, with say a 3lb test curve rod, or something similar, using 10lb line, and assuming all knots were sound - to break the line, in all probability you would break the rod before approaching the breaking point of the line, if you were pulling with the rod above horizontally or more vertically. So, in the case of the same rod and line being used in a fishing situation, the rod could be used in the horizontal position, or near, and exert considerably more power on the fish than otherwise in a conventional fishing situation. Hardly winching with 10lb line, but certainly more than our 3lb test curve rod could exert.

Hope that adds some clarity.

Cheers

Jeri

Rivverrat

#17
Dang Jeri, your one right fart smellow  ;D

Like your self after rereading the text I picked up the author was leaving somethings he thought all would assume

Jeri

Hi

Thanks for the compliment, but there are some seriously smart fellows on this group, some focus on the minutiae of the internal workings of the reels we use. Where I prefer the science and engineering behind long distance casting and the performance of the rods we use.

The beauty is that we are all bound by a common love of fishing as a sport, and mostly have respect for each other. We all also share the common pleasure of sharing knowledge gained from experiences.

We should all thank Alan Tani for setting up this site, every time we log on.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Rivverrat

Its funny how we sometimes do things for so long we no longer give it much thought. My favorite river rod gets fished past its line rating several times each year.   The reel now on this rod can put out more drag than the rod could take. So when Im doing this Ive laid the rod flat when after Ive increased the drag & fish is taking line.

However Ive never done this thinking it was a stronger method of fighting a fish.

boon

It is quite interesting to think about the whole science of the levers involved - if you think of the gimbal as the fulcrum, the longer your rod = more mechanical advantage to the fish.
I believe this is part of the reason behind the way the mechanical jigging rods we use are set up - most are around 5' long, but also have extremely long butts, so the angler is often fighting the fish with all of maybe 3' of actual rod. With these little rods you can exert a ridiculous amount of pressure on a fish, however by the same token it is very easy to "high-stick" them causing a spectacular and expensive failure of the blank, often right in front of the fore-grip.
Wherever I can get away with it (i.e. I don't need the sensitivity of a longer rod) I'm moving to a whole lot of rather silly looking little sub-6' rods, often with tiny but very powerful lever drag reels.
The original article is right, for maximum pulling power just point the tip at the fish, palm/thumb the spool to take the load off the gears and just pull like you're breaking off a snag. But if a decent fish shakes it's head, the shock loading of line, hook and the fish's mouth is going to end in tears.

oc1

The fulcrum is the point where a lever rests and would normally be the fore grip.  But yeah.... what you said.
-steve

Reel 224

Quote from: oc1 on March 29, 2017, 08:31:40 PM
The fulcrum is the point where a lever rests and would normally be the fore grip.  But yeah.... what you said.
-steve

;D ;D ;D

Joe
"I don't know the key to success,but the key to failure is trying to please everyone."